When I last checked in on TriMet’s 82nd Avenue Transit project, I warned that as the project creeps closer to a final design, some advocates worry the agency might decide to cut back on the quality of bus access. In a tale as old as time, it turns out some folks don’t like the idea that the project will decrease driving space on this former state highway, and opposition to the tradeoffs required for faster bus service is mounting.
Since my story last month, I’ve come across video of a meeting of a Southeast Portland neighborhood association that illustrates those concerns (the ones from transit advocates and car users) and I can report an escalation of tactics from bus activists who want to counter project criticisms.
Heated meeting
A headline from East PDX News that read, “PBOT and TriMet get an earful about ‘82nd Avenue Plan’ from Lents neighbors,” recently got my attention. Reporter David Ashton linked to a video of last month’s Lents Neighborhood Livability Association (a splinter group not officially sanctioned by the City of Portland) meeting where Portland Bureau of Transportation and TriMet staff gave a presentation that was repeatedly interrupted by questions and angry comments.
TriMet Director of Community Affairs and Engagement Jennifer Koozer and PBOT Planner Julia Reed remained calm and respectful, despite getting an earful from the crowd.
After hearing about plans for new concrete center medians, one man spoke up to say: “It’s mind boggling! I mean, I’m 82 years old, and I I’ve seen a lot of changes in this city, but… how in the world are they going to get from one side [of the street] to a business on the other without having to go three blocks, make a u-turn, and come back? It’s stupid!”
“It’s inconvenient and it takes up time,” another man chimed in. “That’s wasted time. It doesn’t make any sense because you’re making it inconvenient for the residents and for the businesses.”
“Yes, it can make it less convenient to drive when you have a more circuitous route,” replied TriMet’s Koozer. “But it makes it safer for people who are walking and biking annd prevents the crashes that happen when vehicles are turning left.”
Another man then spoke up: “You guys are cutting down travel for all of us trying to get to work, pick up our kids, for the hospital… You’re making inconvenient and take longer, for what? Why should TriMet get a dedicated lane? We paid for that street over and over and over again. Now you’re taking it away?”
To which Koozer replied, calmly, “I want to think about the people on the busses. We have so many people who use 82nd to get to their jobs, to get to school, to do their shopping — to do their everyday needs… the people who don’t have the choice of using a car — this is to help make their lives easier.”
None of Koozer or Reed’s responses could change the tone of the folks at this meeting — some of whom (only the men) rudely spoke over them and cut them off mid-sentence several times.
“They they want to eliminate the cars!” one man shouted. “That’s the bottom line,” someone in the crowd concurred. “And put everybody on buses and bicycles!”
“TriMet riders are extremely subsidized per ride,” he continued. “Car drivers, with gasoline, maintenance, insurance, etc…, we’re not subsidized. So to put them ahead of us in any kind of priority is demeaning. It’s insulting.”
(Video of the exchanges at the meeting below)
I know neighborhood meetings have a bad reputation and this type of backlash to road projects is relatively common, but I was still shocked by the stuff being said and how the agency staffers were treated. At one point, an elderly man referred to a 1971 memo by a Portland City Hall staffer titled, “Disincentives to the Automobile.” “This outlines everything they’re trying to do… my buddies and I on our hot rods down on Broadway — we were some of the first casualties in [former City Councilor and Oregon Governor Neil] Goldschmidt’s war on cars.”
“So, I can’t believe that this is all just rainbows, unicorns and lollipops. This is premeditated and being done,” he contined.
Despite these disrespectful outbursts, Koozer and Reed maintained their composure. The duo had to repeatedly bat away assumptions that a decision about the business access and turn (BAT) lane was final. Reed said that decision will ultimately be a political one and we should expect it to come from the projects Policy and Budget Advisory Committee at a meeting scheduled for November 7th.
Transit advocates respond
Maybe it’s meetings like these that various activists have heard about. Or maybe it’s the opposition to continuous BAT lanes that have been voiced by some business owners along 82nd. Either way, there’s organizing going on to combat these voices and ensure PBOT and TriMet hear support for a high-quality, dedicated bus lane.
I’ve heard through the grapevine that transit advocates will attend the upcoming Southeast Uplift Land Use and Transportation Committee meeting where TriMet and PBOT will present the project. That’s being held Monday October 20th from 7:00 to 9:00 pm via Zoom (and in person at 3534 SE Main St.)
And the Eco-Socialist Working Group of the Portland chapter of Democratic Socialists of America is organizing a rally to show support for BAT lanes on 82nd on the Sunday before TriMet’s next project community advisory committee meeting. The “Rally for a Safer 72” will take place on October 19th from 1:00 to 2:30 pm at Montavilla Park. Then they encourage everyone to attend the CAC meeting on Wednesday, October 22nd from 6:00 to 7:30 pm at PCC Southeast Campus.
According to DSA’s website, the Eco-Socialist Working Group, “fights for both the long-term and short-term actions necessary for a working class response to the climate crisis, focusing on transit, the relationship between labor and the climate movement, and the defense of Portland’s ecology and environment.” They canvassed 340 riders on 33 different transit routes last spring and found 57% of riders preferred increasing service over any other proposed improvement.
TriMet is about halfway through the design phase of the 82nd Avenue Transit Project. Construction is slated for early 2027.
Thanks for reading.
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I appreciate the call out that busses are in fact carrying people and those people are also trying to get places. I don’t know what causes the mindset that only drivers need to get places quickly. When I’m walking, I don’t want to have to walk several blocks out of my way to find a safe place to cross. I’m not sure why that’s ok, but driving an extra three blocks is not. It’s faster for you to drive those blocks than for me to walk them.
The mindset is simple.
“I identify as a driver. My favorite person is me. The main character is me. The bus is just a machine with people that don’t matter in it.”
The bus cannot accommodate my electric quadricycle, even if the bike rack is empty the driver said no. I’ve submitted a FOIA request trying to find out more about the decision making process that selected these severely limited racks. I am planning to share the info on my X account when I know more.
How much does it weigh? I can’t tell if you are joking or not.
It was funny (to me) the first time, but I think after that everyone (except maybe Chris I there) is on to you. You’ll have to troll differently.
Where’s the joke?
Go drive 82nd avenue, envision it with less lanes and an inability to turn into a business without driving past atleast 3 street lights and returning. This means it will take 20 extra minutes to turn into a business. This means people will absolutely avoid this area, the businesses will die, the people will leave and be replaces by worsening crime and drugs. Do you have any idea how bad 82nd already is to get around? Im a delivery driver and I outright refuse to service that area ALREADY!!! The traffic is already broken dude, what is wrong with you WHO ARE YOU?!?!?!?
An extra 20 minutes to go 3 blocks and make a uturn? You are actually ***personal insult deleted by moderator. Hi. Please don’t do that. Find a different way to convey your feelings. Thanks. – JM***.
Also, this isn’t even about medians, it’s about bus lanes. Great reading comprehension there. Why don’t you get out of your car and see how much worse 82nd is to get around outside of a car.
I live blocks from 82nd and drive it or bike near it every day. I have no idea what you’re talking about.
You seem to imply that multi-lane car-friendly roads that encourage high speeds lead to a more thriving business thoroughfare with less crime and drugs than a low-speed, pedestrian and bus-friendly route. I would love some examples that illustrate this. In my experience, 82nd has been an unsafe place to anything but try to bypass 205 traffic, and has not had a great reputation for business or crime. On the other hand, lots of other Portland streets (and city streets around the world) are slow moving, but filled with people and successful businesses, and are relatively safe places to be.
Also you’re a delivery driver who refuses service on 82nd because there’s traffic there? Someone pays you? Keep that job, my friend, you won’t be successful in anything else.
Please outline a specific location where it would take an extra 20 minutes to get to a business based on the current plans. Surely people would use a GPS navigation tool to find a faster route? Maybe it’s different for delivery drivers though.
I live three blocks from 82nd and I wish it was safer. If you already avoid the area, how would you propose to improve it? Adding lanes isn’t an option. So what would you do to make it safer to travel on, safer to get across, faster for transit users and better for visiting businesses?
THE WAR ON CARS ✊
Jonathan, do you still drive a car? Inquiring minds want to know.
Jeff. as I’ve shared many times before: My wife and I own two cars – a minivan and a RAV 4 SUV.
.
It’s worth pointing out that fewer and fewer people would be all but required to drive if we had improved public transit.
Take notes from these presenters: to keep a level head and remain balanced, nuanced, and informative without condescension/frustration is a huge talent. Its a healthy reminder that sometimes we advocates often stay within realms where there’s mutual agreement and don’t have to face this heat. To do it alone: wading in the waters as people lob all sorts of comments/criticisms/insults to your work or even your character: it takes a certain conviction to the work.
Appreciate Trimet’s work on this. Also healthy reminder:
GET YOUR VOICE OUT THERE! Show that there is indeed: SUPPORT FOR BUS LANES from fellow Portlanders!
Lents isn’t a normal neighborhood association and neither are their meetings. The Lents NA seems to have a revolution on average every 6 months – the pro-transit left-wing group is scheduled to take over the Lents NA by spring of 2026. The other 12 East Portland NAs are relatively more benign (the Jade District is inside the giant Powellhurst-Gilbert NA which has 32,000 residents, on the east side of 82nd from Powell to Division.)
I seriously cannot think of anything more “benign” that could happen to a neighborhood association than a “pro-transit left-wing group” taking it over.
Then you likely don’t participate in your own NA (to be sure, most people do not), they tend to be incredibly conservative in much the same way as sheep are conservative.
That may be true in E Portland (or it might not), but in inner NE and SE, NAs tend to encompass a wide variety of perspectives.
You should mention that LNLA is not a City-sanctioned Neighborhood Association. It’s an unrelated group that finds the traditional neighborhood associations (which anyone in the neighborhood can participate in) to be insufficiently reactionary. Putting the words “neighborhood” and “association” in their title allows them to cash in on the credibility of sanctioned NA groups, but they aren’t one themselves.
yes I should. Will edit. Thanks Kevin.
For some of us, not being “city-sanctioned” is a bonus as we saw how the City tried to destroy the NAs because they weren’t parroting the biases of City Council and the Mayor.
Then the honorable thing to do would be to choose a name that isn’t identical to a neighborhood association with a single word changed. It would be like going and starting up a competing bike journalism website called BikePDX instead of BikePortland. Could someone get away with that? Maybe, but it becomes incumbent on everyone else to mention the misleading behavior every time the new organization’s name is uttered. Good for trolling, but not so much for good faith engagement.
The LNLA is the only neighborhood group in Lents where anyone shows up. It organizes cleanups along the bike paths and brings in big shot politicians to discuss issues like Tri-met safety (those meetings are well attended), and the safety on the bikepaths–which, to people in Lents are bread and butter issues–not just vehicles for political posturing.
So one could say non-vehicular transit is a huge concern for LNLA.
The “official” group was so poorly attended there weren’t any attendees other than the cabal of recent transplants that took over the board and set agendas that completely ignored the deteriorating safety conditions on the bike path.
So it disbanded, because you do need SOME votes if you’re going to call it democracy.
So, like our D1 councilors who got 8,000 votes in a city of 650,000, does the city’s sanction confer any democratic legitimacy? Or do the people who live there and what they think and support matter more?
To be fair, I would like to put everyone on buses and bicycles!
A lovely sentiment, but an incomplete picture.
Not everyone can ride a bicycle, even one with more than two wheels.
Not everyone lives close enough to a bus stop to make that practical.
In order for your idea to come to fruition, we’d have to give up suburban sprawl and have many, many more people living cheek-by-jowl in dense urban spaces, which isn’t something that everyone wants.
We’d have to compel businesses large and small to agree to locate their shops and warehouses close to transit lines, and to provide secure, covered bike parking.
These things would require a reduction in freedom of choice that an awful lot of people — and corporations and governments — simply can’t stomach.
We have evolved our society, our economy and our infrastructures into a big hole that we cannot dig ourselves out of quickly enough to make a meaningful difference for enough people.
So we do what we can with much smaller measures, neighborhood by neighborhood and sometimes block by block. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than tilting at windmills, or doing nothing at all.
Bit by bit; incrementally, like, as in painting bus lanes on 82nd?
Man, yeah, what if we had to actually acknowledge and deal with the consequences of our choices? Never mind that AI is upending our society in the span of 5 years, we certainly can’t ask people to lose car lanes for bikes or transit.
It will be interesting to see if the DSA will be able to muster a lot of locals, or if they will primarily be attracting true believers from further afield. I think you really need locals to counter other locals and not add to the narrative that this solution is being imposed by outside activists.
And yes, sure, I get it: 82nd is a city street and doesn’t belong to any particular group. Try that line on someone who uses the street daily — it will only cause them to dig in deeper.
The DSA needs to directly talk to people who ride the 72. Like get on the bus and talk to them. I think current riders advocating for better transit is a good look and humanizes it.
Yes, that would be a great idea.
From the OP:
That was last spring on a variety of routes, in what appeared to be a “what do you want to see”. I’m talking now on the 72, in a “here’s how to get your voice heard”.
There are far more people in the Portland DSA than you realize
I may have a different perspective than you realize.
When are they going to hurry up and register as a political party so they can be an actual alternative to the two party system? They would most likely do very well in Portland.
Funny, down in southern California, you know car capital of the world, they’ve been doing exactly this for YEARS and seem to have survived. Being from Oregon, it was odd at first, but soon got used to it as it was a piece of cake.
That was rough. I know some 82 year olds are still fine to drive but I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts more than one person in that room shouldn’t be allowed to drive anymore and is dangerous behind the wheel. They would benefit from safer crossings and more frequent busses.
What was with the guy bringing up Neil Goldschmidt and the Carter administration? Besides the fact that that was 50 years ago Goldschmidt has been out of politics for over 20 years. The paranoia about a war on cars and all their other nonsense talking points about who is subsidized and homeless people really shows they have no idea what they’re talking about.
This is the same group that has the PPB come by to violate policy by openly telling people to vote against the current district attorney. I’m not sure it’s worth the effort to give them the time of day. No one is going to change their hearts or minds. They’re convinced the city was better off 50 years ago when Portland was great….
Certainly feels that way sometimes, doesn’t it? But is persuasion the sole purpose or even the most important reason for giving time to people? Community engagement includes both informing the people and also hearing from them. Sometimes valuable insight comes from listening to opposing opinions.
Kudos to those staff for their patience! I don’t think I could do it.
Age is one of the reasons I traded my car for the electric quadricyle. Its been extremely liberating to have personal mobility again without the need for licensing or insurance. Although I admit I had not paid my ODOT registration for several years before trading in my car. The quad dealer was quite perplexed lol
Wow, sure glad that you’re going to plow into me on the bike path with your grey-area car instead of a real car on a neighborhood street.
This isn’t a real person with a real quadracycle.
I beg to differ. I’m not going to accuse this comment page of ableism but I am a very real Portlander and I’ve logger 13k on my electric Quad sine January 13th
I would never do that. Even if I were impaired it has AI powered sensors that control adaptive braking. Similar to what you’d find in a Tesla
I trust Tesla drivers even less than every other driver.
Crikey, you’d think suggesting a bus lane was equivalent to declaring war on the suburbs the way this convo’s going. Look, I’m not anti-bus — love a good Metro when it shows up on time (which is not as often as one would like, nor as safe) — but let’s not pretend these “community engagement” meetings aren’t just a bit of performative political theatre.
You gather the locals, nod along, smile politely, then trash bin their input because some councillor or another reckons it’s not “equitable.” Mate, we saw it on Hawthorne — community shouted for bike lanes, but no, the “equity” of Joanne Hardesty said no wheels for you. Bit rich, that.
Now on 82nd, it’s happening again. People aren’t necessarily angry just about buses, they’re cheesed off that they’re being told they’re part of a process when the decisions were stitched up in the backroom months ago. They don’t fell heard. Call me old-fashioned, but that’s not how democracy’s meant to run — even in Portland.
And yeah, I get it — buses are important, climate change is real, and unicorns probably should ride the 72. But maybe don’t treat everyone with a car like they just ran over a bus stop. Some people just want to get to work without doing a 3-block U-turn and sacrificing their front bumper to the concrete gods. I don’t necessarily agree with that but I can understand that desire and anger.
On the other hand, Portland infrastructure projects often feel mired in endless cycles of community engagement and community feedback. I think the problem is very much not inadequate periods of community feedback, but potentially insufficient notification about projects happening in the first place. It takes effort to know about upcoming projects and some people feel blindsided by proposed changes. I don’t know if there’s a good answer for this.
I’m not following how there’s too much time for community feedback but not enough notice about the project. Is the kickoff of the feedback phase not notice?
Typically, if a project has the go ahead it is already 95% decided on what’s going to happen even before the community meetings. Yes, they are dog and pony shows just so they can tick the box that they did it. I’ve been to many of those meetings and realized the citizens were not at all being heard.
I’ve talked to some of the City’s project managers and most despise getting public input.
I even remember one conversation in the early days of the Internet when it was suggested to the project manager that they advertise these meetings on the internet, and I kid you not they said “why would I do that and have more of the community attend?” This of course was not a comment made where the general public could hear. That project manager now runs economic development in one of our neighboring cities.
The real problem (and reason for these feelings) is no one participating in the process (including the staff) actually knows how the decisions will be made and who will make them.
Usually it’s a careful dance of trying to push the status quo enough to make a meaningful difference in outcomes without upsetting enough community members that some (necessarily) under-informed director, DCA, or elected official feels the need to weigh in and take control of a situation that, prior to their involvement, was probably well-conducted and well-considered (if lengthy) – as frequently evinced by solutions that move the ball down the field but don’t please either extreme (not inherently a good thing, but a residue of the political triangulation necessary to achieve anything). The lamentable length of processes is often the tax paid to avoid 11th-hour vetoes by leadership and the well-connected; heading off said vetoes actually allows staff to listen to and accommodate feedback from a variety of angles.
Sometimes the dance goes well, sometimes a chaperone/ex-boyfriend/<insert appropriately analogous movie antagonist> steps in. In this way, it’s possible for a process to be long and meaningless (as far as its impact on outcomes). No one really knows when the process will go one way or another. A recipe for frustration on all sides, from top to bottom.
In my experience, it’s usually some obscure mid-level nameless faceless bureaucrat at taxpayer expense, a “gatekeeper”, who makes the actual decisions. Elected officials usually vote “yes” on anything put in front of them by their staff or the local transportation department, the staff in turn are influenced by a hierarchy of other staffers, none of who want to make waves and possibly lose their cushy jobs. Finding out who the gatekeepers are in any organization is a fruitful endeavor for most advocates if you can actually find them and talk with them, but they very elusive and often don’t even know themselves that they are gatekeepers.
I’m actually looking forward to a bus lane as it will accommodate my electric quadricyle. No its not as wide as a bus but since there are no licensing / insurance requirements I’m fairly certain I can operate in bus, bike and / or car lanes (also MUPs and sidewalks as long as there are ADA ramps).
One thing I learned from my grandpa (who drove a real Model T to a his one room schoolhouse in Drain starting at age 9!) was that its better to ask forgiveness than it is to beg permission. Something we can all learn from
“Its better to ask forgiveness than it is to bed permission”
Tell that to all the rape and sexual assault victims.
This is very dark and as a victim of sexual A. myself very inappropriate.
You must be pretty old to have a grandfather who had a model T.
Jake, the model T was a hand-me-down from the family farm (mink, otters, other furs). His father and grandfather would take product up to Salem on the Auto Association roads back in the day. We’re talking 1930s
Continuous BAT lanes reads like an oxymoron.
Is a curb-side LRT off the table now?
Ha! Totally agree that BAT is already a big compromise from true BRT. And no, LRT isn’t even part of this conversation.
I had meant BRT but I guess I wrote what I really wanted to see built.
As Jonathan notes, this is not the Lents Neighborhood Association, the city-sanctioned representatives for this area. This is the cleverly-named Lents Neighborhood Livability Association. I sometimes wonder if that staff is aware of that difference. The LNLA certainly is one viewpoint, but it’s a self-selecting one, as David Hampsten notes.
Thanks Jonathan, for the details of the newly active groups, including a DSA group!
That was painful to listen to for a number of reasons, but it is truly remarkable that some people will complain about bikes and bike lanes even when there are no bike lanes being proposed.
Out here in east Portland, people see bicyclists as people with money and see bus riders as poor. If you drive a car to your factory job, you see yourself as neither.
I can’t fault the first view, but take exception with the view of bus riders. I certainly have more money after reorganizing my life to ride the bus and bike and stop paying upwards of $10k per year to own and operate a car.
That’s funny, I’v now made >70 round trips down Flavel to 92nd and then down the path to Clackamas since I moved to the east side in July.
I’ve yet to see a lycra clad person out training. Street clothes predominate. I’m actually odd man out in that I wear lycra shorts in the warm weather.
Just goes to show that what people “know” is very often simply wrong.
The comments in that meeting aren’t any surprise – they’re just more of the same American culture of not giving a damn about anyone else.
Need to ask if TRIKE here implies tricycle, and if commenters here insist that you aren’t real because you have more than two wheels?
Happy to have a comrade in arms on the streets
David
I do both. In wet weather I ride a gravel bike, and I’ve used it this summer after the move because I need to do some work on the trike and haven’t had time with all the post-move work at the new place.
I built a “trike garage” shed and it’s housed on the workstand. The gravel bike gets a cover and u-locked to the fence outside – I hope it doesn’t resent the favoritism I’m showing. 🙂
“The comments in that meeting aren’t any surprise – they’re just more of the same American culture of not giving a damn about anyone else.”
—I guess that’s what I was trying to get at with my comment, it’s a cynical-generalized assumption of how the shrinking middle class views the world.
“Drive a car to your factory job”
Lol, that’s a tiny fraction of people. Most are driving their cars to their email or retail jobs.
There was a study by the Portland Planning Bureau in 2012 that used detailed census and state employment data which looked at where people live and work (not the sort of thing that is usually available to the public) that found that inner Portland residents west of 82nd predominantly worked downtown, but that East Portland residents did not – they were far more likely to work in factories along the Columbia Corridor, Swan Island, in Troutdale, Clark County, Clackamas, and at the airport, or in East Portland itself, with only a small minority working downtown.
Clark and the Clack have plenty of email and retail jobs. I guess it’s just this idea of blue collar workers inherently needing to use cars to get to the work that rubs me the wrong way. It’s disingenuous and infectious to our street culture. I suppose it’s more of an outgrowth of the suburbanization of industry than anything. Obviously a vibrant downtown doesn’t include noisy, polluting, sprawling factories and logistics hubs, but there’s gotta be some way to make those places accessible without a car that doesn’t involve bankrupting TriMet to run good bus service or buses so infrequent they might as well not exist.
Yeah, you’re right. The past of huge polluting satanic mills in the center of cities is (thankfully) gone, replaced with sprawling big-box warehouses and factories on the edges of cities, where land is much cheaper, highways are plentiful, and environmental regulations more lax. Portland had a pulp mill downtown until the 1980s, and there are still nearby barge and freight train car manufacturing near downtown, but like most West Coast cities most land is now pretty much devoted to (new and expensive) housing and (high-skill) office employment. Meanwhile, if you happen to be low-skilled in Portland, where do you live and work, assuming you can find work and housing?
I live in an East Coast city of 300,000 where the bus system is still focused on getting poor black factory workers to the huge textile and tobacco plants – the old factory buildings are now renovated offices and condos for white-collar workers who are more likely to be white or South Asian and we no longer process tobacco and textiles – but the poor black neighborhoods nearby are still poor and overwhelmingly black. Meanwhile, we have no regular bus service to the new suburban satanic mills that produce freight trucks, executive jets, lithium batteries, supersonic passenger jets, and Crest toothpaste, so everyone has to drive, or else get dropped off a mile (or five) from work at the last bus stop and walk on well-worn dirt paths on our stroads or else bike on unlit narrow country roads. Our communities have big plans to expand public transit, walkways, bikeways, and even BRT, but our money instead gets used for property tax relief for the rich, to build the new beltline freeway, expand the airport, and revitalize our dead downtown.
It’s much the case in every other city – the closer in you are, the better the transit, bike, and walking infrastructure, but the fewer low-skill jobs available – and the better paying low-skill jobs are in areas without basic transit, walk, or bicycling infrastructure.
A bit like Portland, isn’t it?
“there’s gotta be some way to make those [sprawling industrial areas] accessible without a car that doesn’t involve bankrupting TriMet to run good bus service”
Does there? Bus service has some very real limitations, and this is one of them. It is a great solution to a certain set of problems, but it is a pretty bad solution for another set.
I’m not gonna say this a perfect example or anything, but in our local area here in the Piedmont Triad of NC we have 3 different cities each with their own local municipal bus services – Winston-Salem, High Point, and Greensboro – and a regional government intercity bus service called PART that has their central depot in the middle of our main airport industrial district between the 3 cities. In addition to the intercity buses (you can get as far as UNC-Chapel Hill, 2 counties over, using their buses), PART runs a shuttle system to the main industrial employers in the area – Volvo trucks, Honda Jet, Boom SST, Haeco aircraft repair, Proctor & Gamble, FedEx, and so on – for $5 total ($2.50 to get to the depot from each city + $2.50 for the shuttle trip). The service is subsidized not only with FTA funding (like Trimet), but also from each participating city and county in the region. To save on costs, PART then contracts all services through First Transit PLC, a British corporation, one of the BIG 5 international transit contractors, who then hires non-union drivers, staff and dispatchers.
The main difficulties with bus service in general is the super long circuitous travel times (it takes 2 hours to get to our airport by bus) and the lack of service late at night.
“The main difficulties with bus service in general is the super long circuitous travel times (it takes 2 hours to get to our airport by bus) and the lack of service late at night.”
I wouldn’t call that even barely acceptable service for anyone but the truly desperate.
Maybe “bus” isn’t the right answer in this case.
Don’t disagree there – I guess one way to start would be to make biking and walking safer in those areas. I have a friend who works in an industrial area near the airport, like 5 miles from where he lives. He rarely bikes because the last 1.5-2 miles are pretty scary on a bike with no workable alternate routes.
Literally, this is categorically the worst move any government anywhere has decided for transportation. Its such blatant coercion and outright hoatility to people ha ing their own vehicles to transport them. I apent 1300 bucks on a car and live out of it, dont give me that smack about peoples accessibility to transportation, youre coercing a population to change their lives to acxommodate some globaliat city planning directive. If you have ever driven 82nd avenue you would know its the most congested street from here to SF. It takes an hour to get through it, when they set up these lane closures, its going to cause economic damage and an incredible fallout for an already collapsing part of the city. The businesses will continue to close until all you see is some foreign town with no one speaking english. Do not kid yourself, the elected officials are actually evil people doing spiritually evil things, case in point when you see this area completely destroyed for a road so people can drive through
Comment of the week
… whew.
I’m sure the folks whose houses and businesses have been or will be destroyed for highway projects disagree.
That’s not even close to ture, but if it is, do bus lanes so that the space can be used more efficiently. The only other option is to widen it which… will actually physically destroy business?
Thankfully, there’s 8-12 freeway lanes less than a mile East of 82nd for drivers to use.
Currently, it takes an hour to go the length of 82nd via transit. Do transit riders not deserve quick and efficient mobility?
Systemic failings in regard to housing affordability, or your own personal failings to manage your money are not TriMet/PBOT’s responsibility. Poor, disabled, and elderly people all rely on public transit. A bus lane on 82nd is transformational for them. Maybe congestion gets a little worse, but like, maybe you could take the bus? If you’re living out of your car you probably qualify for free fare.
I’m going to ignore the blatant bigotry here; but only point out the irony that 82nd probably has more business owners that speak a language other than English than any other street in the city.
So either your whole screed is satire or you are suffering from some kind of schizoaffective disorder. Either way, I don’t really understand this bit. Are you for or against roads? Wouldn’t destroying 82nd to build an I-205 bypass fit nicely into your view that cars are the only mobility that matters? I just don’t understand.
Gonna have to say that every time a city destroyed low income/black neighborhoods to build a freeway out ranks this decision by miles. Hostile is a great word though, that’s exactly how I feel the current configuration of 82nd is to people outside a steel cage.
What you frame as hostility to people in cars is actually considering the welfare of the large number of people who don’t/can’t drive (whether due to economics or disability). With a freeway literally <1min driving time away, not sure if your argument holds water.
Public policy is about tradeoffs. The scale has tilted so far in the direction of drivers for so long that you just assume it always will. Any hint that anyone besides yourself might receive some consideration results in a nearly incoherent rage induced rant.
Actually, everywhere else this has happend has resulted in neutral to positive economic outcomes for the businesses on the calmed street. Turns out that if the streetscape isn’t hostile to people outside of cars, they like shopping there more. Remember, BAT means BUSINESS ACCESS and TRANSIT. Business access is actually prioritized over transit in this configuration.
Wow, so much hate for folks who came here, built a business and made a life for themselves. My great grandfathers ran into that in the early 1900’s. Irish and German Catholics were not held in high esteem. While, today, I’m just another white dude with all the privilege that entails, I try and have empathy for the folks out there who are not different than ancestors.
You, based on this screed, do not have any empathy for other people. So many out there don’t.
Why does a bus deserve a lane all to itself when it is less than a fraction of a percent of the traffic on the road?
I feel like it is an admission that the travel times are untenable but it’s not a solution it actually makes it worse unless you are on the bus… Now we see why people feel it is a coercive technique.
NOT doing the bus lane actually makes it worse unless you’re driving….Now we see why people feel it (not putting in the bus lane) is a coercive technique.
Yes, bus lanes make the bus go faster. Ride the bus.
20,000 drivers, 10,000 bus riders.
33% of the people going down 82nd are on those “fraction” of the traffic.
Increase reliability and speed and put an articulated bus on there and the numbers will about balance pretty quick.
It’s really irritating to hear people harping on about bike lanes in this meeting when the city has still not completed the 80s bikeway after 15 years.
My electric quadricycle is a little too wide for what’s proposed for 82nd. I don’t mind using the car lanes when I need to pass cyclists but I feel safest in a dedicated lane. I’m hoping they take into account car free alternatives over 60″ width.
I know the 205 path parallels it but the recent installation of bollards forces me to drive on the grass berms to bypass. It’s doable but I’d probably want to upgrade to the AWD model for the wet months, it gets muddy / slippery!
Electric quadricycle, you say?
Yes, one of a kind for now but more coming soon.
David
Sounds like you like to show up in a place being legitimately used by lots of people, taking advantage of the fact that there aren’t stronger barricades blocking you from getting in, then get their attention by being a curiosity, then leave after they realize you’re not a legitimate user, and are just getting in the way of everyone else who’s just trying to use the place for what it was meant for.
Then you wait a bit and do it all over again. But each time you do it, people catch on to what you’re doing more quickly, to the point it just gets tiresome to see you show up.
This quadricycle guy must’ve been a monorail salesman before he got run out of that other town.
Not trying to be snarky – but an electric quad cycle is definitely not a bicycle under OR law and arguably should not be using the bike lane. If it’s really 60″ wide then it poses a problem for other travelers on the 205 path in the underpasses at Otty and Morrisey(sp?) as they narrow to under 8′ wide.
I really care about this and it impacts me personally. I’m really going to try and get my voice heard on this.
I’m thinking my tack is going to be a concise version of:
Any thoughts from the hivemind?
This is an excellent summary. Roll with it!
More bullets:
Bus lanes also save on roadway wear-and-tear except at bus stops, which need to be majorly re-enforced (which smart cities usually do anyway.)
Removing traffic lanes encourages drivers to seek alternative modes, routes and/or not take the trip in the first place.
I’m worried this will come across as a bad thing. Even though 82nd doesn’t really have any through streets running parallel (see the wiggly 80’s bikeway routes) there’s always concern about “traffic being pushed into neighborhoods”. Maybe I could just say “it will encourage thru traffic that doesn’t stop and shop to use more appropriate routes, like I-205”?
I am surprised at how few people realize this repercussion of a through street backlog. A perfect example is Powell Blvd. Morning and afternoon I now use and see many others using Gladstone which SHOULD be a quieter neighborhood street but Powell has become so insufferable that Gladstone (and the other neighborhood streets after 42nd) pay the price.
Do you have traffic counts to back this up? Also, Powell doesn’t have bus lanes. It’s a big ol stroad like 82nd currently so I don’t see what your angle is here.
My hope is that PBOT uses this transit project as a chance to properly protect neighborhoods from cut through traffic by building medians and diverters. They have talked about the “ladder” concept for bike routes paralleling 82nd, and these need protection, too. I would gladly wait at a light/be slightly inconvenienced to turn into my neighborhood, if it means there isn’t a stream of cars cutting through all day long.
Yes there are incredible delays for every driver on 82nd – the solution being to make it worse for most of them?
The traffic will exist regardless. Let’s improve the experience for bus riders, and some of those people stuck in traffic can start taking the bus.
As long as they continue to allow U-Turns this will be an amazing improvement.
82nd needs to change from a through-traffic highway to a local traffic city street. The current 82nd Ave Project is helping. Bus lanes will help further the change even more. There will be short-term pain as people adjust to “having” to take I-205, instead of 82nd, to travel north/south for longer distances in the area. Sure, some car-centric businesses may leave for other locations. They will hopefully be replaced by businesses that better serve the people living in the neighborhoods around them.
Since 82nd Avenue is also Oregon State Route 213, that could be a tall order. Any roadway with multiple jurisdictions poses complex issues around repairs, improvements or changes, and law enforcement. (See: MLK Jr Blvd, aka Oregon Highway 99E.)
82nd is being (or has been?) transferred to PBOT jurisdiction with the ongoing improvement projects, and MLK has been a PBOT road since the 1990s even if it’s still signed as 99E
Why does a nonprofit public benefit with members whose “principal place of business” is in Mollala, Oregon the main contact point for PBOT in the Lents neighborhood? How many people are on the membership list? Do they live in the neighborhood?
https://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1932836&p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE
Every nonprofit has to have a “registered agent”, it’s the person who “owns” the bank account and the go-to person for the IRS and the State of Oregon (or any other state for that matter). That person need not live in Portland, they can literally be anywhere in the state. Same with a mailing address. It’s pretty common, I wouldn’t read too much into it, you’ll find something similar with many other nonprofits.
As a bike rider I think gas guzzling cars should be replaced with electric. That the buses are going electric is good. But as for a special bus lane on 82nd, it wouldn’t make any big difference. Cars would take 96th so you’d need to widen that street first. The real difference would be putting a max line down the middle of 82nd. Then you’d see change.
Trimet can’t properly maintain the existing Max lines and since they’ve been failures let’s not waste any more tax money on that folly.
Let’s stick with buses and properly protected bus stops where people can stand out of the rain. A heck of a lot cheaper overall and much more flexible.
By what metric has MAX been a “failure” in your mind?
The Orange line is nowhere near its original ridership projections.
It costs TriMet $10 per passenger to provide service that is not reliable and sometimes unpleasant. TriMet has even started replacing train service with buses in the off hours, which does not strike me as a sign of self confidence.
I wouldn’t call Max a failure, but more a specialty tool for a narrow set of problems.
Putting MAX on 82nd would be way more expensive and disruptive than bus lanes.
If we are lucky to live long enough, we will likely lose the ability to drive a car safely before we lose the ability to walk or move with a small mobility device. So much of our planning, and our thinking, ignores this. It’s incredibly frustrating to me as I see how limiting our car-centric culture is to aging people in my own family, and how many of those people continue to drive long past when it’s safe (and it’s never really all that safe to begin with!). Older folks advocating for continued car favoritism is really not in their interest, and the denial here of what’s better for everyone is profound.
The video is tragic. What have we done to elderly people in our society? Isolated them with car infrastructure? So sad.
So it just doesn’t make sense to dedicate a lane and put it to less than 1% usage capacity. A bus comes through every 15 minutes and then the rest of the time an entire lane goes to waste with traffic piled around it. I see this first hand crossing the Burnside bridge going east during heavy traffic. The view of three packed lanes running all the way up Burnside with a completely empty ‘bus only’ lane just begging to relieve some of the pressure but not allowed to is just stunning in its poor design!
Hi Bud,
The bus lanes are empty because the bus has swiftly moved through the lane, and is not stopped in traffic with all the cars. While the bus has moved through, it has whisked 10, 20, or 40 people through that clear lane. Each of those people could have been another driver, creating more traffic, but instead they’re on the bus, reducing the number of other cars that drivers have to contend with for space. The whole point of the bus lane is that it stays empty so that a bus (moving way more people than any single car) can drive through it quickly. If it’s bothering you so much to sit there and watch the busses (the burnside bridge has at least the 12, 19, and 20 lines) sail by, just take the bus next time!
Cheers.
There’s like a 10% chance you are one of the people who was at this meeting. I’m sorry you don’t want society to improve.
BUSINESS ACCESS and Transit.
The lane will get used by all right turning traffic on and off 82nd. And 82nd has a *lot* of driveways.
but, in a way you’re right.
94 72’s per day go south on 82nd every week day in a 20 hour period.
95 72’s per day go north on 82nd every week day in a 20 hour period.
(btw that’s 12min headways, not 15).
That’s 189 buses.
17,000 to 23,000 cars go north and south every day (24 hour period).
Of course, if you only care about vehicles that’s a problem.
I care about human beings.
The 189 buses transport 9,500 weekday human beings to and from their jobs, grocery stores and errands.
The 20,000 SOV’s transport about 20,000 human beings.
Now you see the difference? Improve capacity, reliability and speed of transit and the number of human beings being transported goes up.
Shunt about 20% of the through traffic to 205 (about 30-40%), other major N/S roads (50-60%) and neighborhood streets (10%) and we’re starting to talk about 50% of human beings in the corridor being transported by transit. (this is the analysis that PBOT did on traffic patterns).
The esitmated additional time to drive from Lombard – Clatsop at peak times is 3-4min.
Apparently you think a few minutes of your time > better lives for thousands of people who depend on transit.
“In a tale as old as time” is of course just an expression and not meant to be taken literally, but as a member of Strong Towns PDX I am obligated to call out that this “tale” is actually only a blip on the timeline.
I’m talking about The Suburban Experiment. Throughout most of history people lived in cities and towns that were relatively dense, mixed use, and easy enough to get around by foot. Since WWII we’ve experimented with a new pattern with lots of cars and sprawl, but yeah, this pattern has not been the norm for humans.
Of course, even “recorded history” is a tiny blip in the course of humanity. Cities of any sort are not our norm.
One of the things that has made us so formidable (for better or worse) is our ability to change, adopt new technology, and adapt to new ways of living. Suburbs aren’t going anywhere.