Man arrested after driving stolen car at high speeds on Springwater Corridor bike path

The stolen car stopped on the Springwater just south of the Ross Island Bridge. (Photo: Portland Police Bureau)

The Portland Police Bureau says a man driving a white Kia Soul tried to elude officers and drove nearly two miles on the Springwater Corridor bike path around noon today.

According to a statement released this afternoon, the driver was observed going over 50 miles per hour on a popular part of the path between Oaks Amusement Park and the Ross Island Bridge. There was at least one report of a pedestrian being nearly hit. Luckily, we are not aware of anyone being hurt.

Here’s the full PPB statement:

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 11:18a.m., a Central Precinct officer on patrol located a vehicle in the 7800 block of Southeast Oaks Park Way in which 2 people appeared to be passed out. The officer asked for additional officers and they set up spike strips behind the vehicle’s tires in case the driver tried to drive off. When the driver was woken up, he eluded the officer, driving over the spike strip and damaging a fence. As additional officers responded to assist, the driver proceeded onto the Springwater Trail. The vehicle was observed going in excess of 50 miles per hour on the trail and officers got at least one report that a pedestrian on the trail was nearly struck by the vehicle.

Officers were attempting to deploy intervention strategies to stop the car when the driver jumped out and ran. Officers set up a perimeter and a K9 unit responded to assist with the search for the suspect. After a short search, the K9 located the suspect down an embankment on the Willamette River’s edge. When challenged, the suspect waded into the water to try to escape. Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office River Patrol and a Portland Fire and Rescue boat were requested. The officers convinced the suspect to come back to shore, where he was arrested.

The suspect claimed that he swallowed narcotics, so he was transported by ambulance to the hospital for evaluation. After being medically cleared, Lucas R. Lujan, 23, was booked into the Multnomah County Detention Center on charges of Unauthorized Use of a Motor Vehicle (2 counts), Felony Attempt to Elude Police by vehicle, Misdemeanor Attempt to Elude Police on foot, Reckless Driving, and Failure to Perform the Duties of a Driver (property damage).

The vehicle, a white 2011 Kia Soul, was recovered (photo) and determined to be an unreported stolen vehicle. It was returned to its owner.

People driving cars on paths in Portland is a problem that the City has struggled to contain. Last August the Portland Parks and Recreation bureau erected large iron gates on the Peninsula Crossing Trail in north Portland to prevent driving. And in January 2022, Parks erected large concrete barriers on the Columbia Slough Path for the same reason.

Anyone who saw this incident on the Springwater and/or was put in danger by the driver of this car should contact the police at crimetips@police.portlandoregon.gov and reference case number 23-96312.

Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)

Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)

Founder of BikePortland (in 2005). Father of three. North Portlander. Basketball lover. Car owner and driver. If you have questions or feedback about this site or my work, feel free to contact me at @jonathan_maus on Twitter, via email at maus.jonathan@gmail.com, or phone/text at 503-706-8804. Also, if you read and appreciate this site, please become a supporter.

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Charley
Charley
1 year ago

I was there. It was a surreal interruption to what was otherwise a very pleasant commute. Glad the police were right behind him.

Holtz
1 year ago

I was riding home when the police passed me heading to this incident. I put this video together before I saw the news reports. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLPqz33Lwlw

Fred
Fred
1 year ago
Reply to  Holtz

Heart rate of 144 bpm – nice!

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago

Let’s face it: Portland is a mess. Our laws are not enforced and not respected. And we wonder why bike and transit share is dropping. Did you know there is ONE property crime detective for the entire city? This kind of stuff is why I ride less than I used to and why I am considering leaving Portland altogether.

Serenity
Serenity
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

 Did you know there is ONE property crime detective for the entire city?


Where did you hear that?

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Serenity

Directly from Terri Wallo-Strauss, PPB spokesperson.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Of course the official mouthpiece for PPB would never stretch the truth to suit their purposes lmao

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Let’s not disparage a city employee. Are you accusing her of lying about staffing levels?

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

I will disparage those who choose to enable a brutal and corrupt police force all I want, thanks.

PTB
PTB
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

“”” This kind of stuff is why I ride less than I used to and why I am considering leaving Portland altogether.”””

Same. Every time we leave Portland for whatever reason, weekend trip, longer trip, whatever, and we are reminded of what a normally functioning city looks like, it becomes increasingly difficult to rationalize why we stay here. We aren’t old, but we aren’t young either. I don’t want to spend the next, hell I don’t know, 5-20 years living in a city trying to dig out of a ever deepening hole. I don’t want to spend this time of my life endlessly pissed off and exasperated by day after day of absolute bullshit.

Cars on trails. This has been a very common thing pretty much through all of the Covid era. I’ve never seen speeds like this but I’ve absolutely seen cars driving on the 205 and Springwater. It’s insane.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  PTB

The difference here is that the police apparently instigated a high-speed chase for two miles along a bicycle and pedestrian trail. So who was really the more reckless driver?

Charles Ross
Charles Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

“instigate”???? Only in Portland can people be offended by police who are only doing their job

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Ross

Since when is it the cops’ job to ignore the risk to bystanders when pursuing any subject for any reason?

Trike Guy
Trike Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Police have always ignored the risk to bystanders when they engage in pursuits – 100’s of innocent bystanders die yearly because of it.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Trike Guy

Citation please.

Parto Gomez
Parto Gomez
1 year ago

This is ancient data. It starts in 1979! Police chase policies have radically changed since then.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

“Nearly every day, someone is killed during a high-speed chase between police and a suspect. Almost half of the 11,500 people killed since 1979 have been bystanders or passengers in fleeing cars.”

https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/high-speed-chases/

Chris I
Chris I
1 year ago
Reply to  Trike Guy

Seems like a tiny fraction of the 40,000+ Americans killed by traffic violence every year. Cars are dangerous.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

OMG. So now this is PPB’s fault? Just stop.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Life isn’t a Jason Bourne movie. Is a stolen car worth putting bystanders at risk of grievous bodily harm?

SolarEclipse
SolarEclipse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Then why have laws at all? We don’t need them since someone’s life just might be put in danger in the pursuit of the criminals? Lets get rid of all police and live in a Mad Max world where only the strong survive.
Yeah, maybe your fantasy world, not mine.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  SolarEclipse

I believe this is what’s known as a “false dilemma”.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

“Is a stolen car worth putting bystanders at risk? ”

This is a question best directed at the theif.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

To my knowledge the thief did not take an oath (let alone receive a paycheck) to protect the public.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

It appears nobody was harmed, so job well done PPB!

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago

*This time*.

Mark in NoPo
Mark in NoPo
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Across the street from Kachka last night I saw a woman parked in a Subaru take a hit from a crack pipe and then drive off. Is this her fault, mine, or PPB’s?

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark in NoPo

What does that have to do with a high-speed vehicle chase on a bike path?

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Both are the cops’ fault.

PS
PS
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Where do you have information that the police were also pursuing the vehicle at high speeds? Sounds like the PPB were relying of witnesses saying the vehicle was traveling as fast as 50mph.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  PS

OK, I’ve thought it over and it’s possible the cop instead used “moving radar” from inside their vehicle to observe the speed. We don’t know whether they did because they aren’t saying. What we know for sure is that police chases have killed thousands of bystanders and injured who knows how many more, so it’s natural to be suspicious.

dwk
dwk
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

You thought it over and realized you have no fucking idea what happened but continue with your inane responses.
You are exactly the reason this city has fallen off a cliff.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  dwk

You seem triggered, pal. I had no idea random commenters on a bike blog were literally driving the city to ruin lmao

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Only in Portland can people see a story about a law enforcement action ending in an arrest and multiple charges and think, “Our laws are not enforced” lol

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Unfortunately the ending of this story was the exception not the rule in the “new Portland”

Serenity
Serenity
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

*Selectively* enforced.

SolarEclipse
SolarEclipse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Guess you don’t get out on the streets much if you think our current laws are being enforced.
Whatever kind of rose colored glasses you wear I want some too!

John
John
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Couldn’t agree more. Thank you for being on here and being the one to say a thing that seems obvious but needs repeating. They mustered not just a couple cop cars for this, they had at least a dozen or so according to that pinned video comment.

It’s sad so many responses are like “oh you want something slightly better? How about something cartoonishly bad in the other direction?”.

Dwk
Dwk
1 year ago
Reply to  John

Please explain how this was a bad result?
No one was hurt, the car driver who was driving recklessly on a bike path was stopped without incident.
You and Che Fuller spent an entire post arguing that the police did something wrong when Nothing wrong happened.
Go back to breaking windows…..

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Dwk

“You and Che Fuller…” You flatter me, sir.

Meanwhile on another BikePortland thread I’m being called a neoliberal shill for supporting market-rate condos on a former downtown parking lot. I must be doing something right if I’m triggering both extremes so hard lol

John
John
1 year ago
Reply to  Dwk

Nobody said this was a bad result. You are, as usual, coming in name calling and responding to things nobody said. I’m starting to wonder if you actually read anything or if you’re entirely solipsistic, only responding to scenarios you made up for people.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  John

It’s the classic “Improve society somewhat? Yet you participate in society” response 😉

DW
DW
1 year ago

It feels like this is only newsworthy because this person did it on a well-known and well-loved trail. Folks are driving like this all over our bike lanes and neighborhood greenways too.

PTB
PTB
1 year ago
Reply to  DW

Sure, but this is supposed to be a car-free trail. So this is hardly the same thing. I rode with a buddy the other day, on the Springwater and Trolley Trail, just so we could ride side by side and shoot the shit, without having to worry about car traffic (except for crossings, which, hey, that’s fine).

Chris I
Chris I
1 year ago
Reply to  DW

Yep. I had this happen to me on the Marine Drive path last winter. A car full of 4 sketchy-looking dudes blasted past me, and then turned around and came back up behind me. I shouldered my bike and scrambled up the embankment to the “safety” of Marine Drive.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris I

What about them was “sketchy-looking”? As someone whose safety is routinely put at risk by apparently upstanding citizens in expensive cars, I would like to know :-/

Chris I
Chris I
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

They looked like drugged-out zombies. I could break down the exact physical features, facial expressions, and condition of the vehicle, but I think you know what I mean.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris I

I’m afraid I don’t. What “physical features” qualify as “sketchy-looking” exactly?

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Every single one of us is the product of hundreds of thousands of years of successful survival and reproduction. During that time we have become acutely attuned to divining the intentions of others, especially those who might pose a threat.

If your brain is telling you someone is “sketchy looking”, trust your instincts. Especially if there are four of them, they turn around after checking you and the situation out, and they are driving on the bike path.

Is there anything about the scenario that doesn’t say “run” ?

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

I guess “instincts” are never biased against certain groups of people. Act first and ask questions later, that’s my motto :-/

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

If that certain group is circling around and coming back for you in their car on the bike path, what would you want to ask? And why would you second guess someone who left the area fearing for their safety?

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

A man fearing for his safety just shot an innocent teen who happened to knock on the wrong front door. Not to mention that safety fears are a perpetual excuse for police killings of unarmed civilians. Questioning that reaction in our present social context is good, actually.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/04/19/ralph-yarl-andrew-lester-shooting-black-fear/

Hotrodder
Hotrodder
1 year ago

I’ve seen cars at the very least being driven on every single one of the main MUPS around the city and I’ve seen plenty of cars parked on MUPs in front of ‘houseless’ camps..sometimes three, four at a time. The only part about this whole story that strikes me as unusual is that for some reason, the cops decided to give a shit.

Thank god no one was hurt when the car thief tried to elude.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Hotrodder

That’s not fair. The vast majority of officers care a lot for our community. It’s just that often they can’t respond to crimes that aren’t an immediate threat to life and limb due to the severe understaffing of our force that elected leaders (and voters) have allowed. More support and less denigration from the community would also be helpful.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

PPB continues to violate its own use of force policies. Cops are trained to see citizens as the enemy. During protests in 2020, PPB officers assaulted journalists and legal observers. What were the cops who supposedly care so much for our community doing when violent abusers in their own ranks were running amok on the streets?

SolarEclipse
SolarEclipse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Management at my work told people they were part of the problem if we workers weren’t out protesting (rioting) with the rest of the few people that showed up. Boy did they have egg on their face when those “protestors” broke windows in our building.
Yeah, awesomeness.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Mr Maus you censor many comments yet you allow falsehoods like this to be posted?

“Cops are trained to see citizens as the enemy. “

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

“Many cops these days are functionally indistinguishable from soldiers—in terms of the gear they use, the image they project, and the mindset that they embody…there is a cottage industry of trainers and consultants who encourage police to see their beats as a battlefield.”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html

“The [Portland Police Bureau] is currently under supervision by the Department of Justice, which blasted the Portland police last May for its unconstitutional reliance on violence and a leadership that ‘portrays all force as justified.’ ”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/portland-police-riot-training-slide-beating-dirty-hippies-1285167/

alex
alex
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Actually, the ppb haven’t been able to fill roles for a lot of reasons and not because of elected officials alone. I don’t like our elected officials either, but ppb need to take some blame on this one. They have a horrible relationship with the citizens and the elected officials. Who would want to work there based on the culture they have built? We need cops, but something needs to change with them, too.

jakeco969
jakeco969
1 year ago
Reply to  alex

https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/#intro

Here you go. You can be the change they need. The culture will only change when they want too. Bring the change you want to see in them.

Boyrd
Boyrd
1 year ago
Reply to  jakeco969

Too bad they reject the vast majority of qualified applicants. I’d love to join the cops and change the culture, but they weed out the people that don’t fit the current culture.

alex
alex
1 year ago
Reply to  jakeco969

You don’t have to be one of them to change the system – I have no desire to do that. It is false that it will only change when they want to. The public can change it and it has been done before. We can do it again. Step 1: dissolve the police union. Step 2: rehire cops that aren’t unionized. Step 3: hold them accountable

Also, just in time for my response is a great example of how the police are not good faith actors and they need to change – https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/04/some-portland-officers-responded-to-lgbtq-training-with-racist-feedback-report-says.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/12/18/police-reform-unions-role/10849108002/

Winston Nguyen
Winston Nguyen
1 year ago

50 MPH! That’s insane. We have allowed Portland to become a city of lawlessness. People steal cars, drive without plates, drive recklessly all without consquences. Unfortunately, a very misguided approach to racial and social justice took over Portland and has brought us to a bad place. Expecting adherance to the social contract, enforcing our laws, investigating, charging and prosecuting those who break them is NOT racist. It’s what allows for a healthy, thriving and safe community. One in which honest, hardworking people want to live in, not escape from.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Winston Nguyen

It’s alomost like the bike path paved with good intentions leads to a negative outcome.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Winston Nguyen

Speaking of reckless driving, yes, it’s insane that cops would chase someone in a car at 50 mph along a pedestrian and bike path. Life isn’t a Jason Bourne movie.

dwk
dwk
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I guess the concept of vehicles being used as weapons is new to some people?
The one protected class in this city are car drivers. It amazing how many defenders they have like Daniel….
People who are in cars and drive cars are off limit to laws… amazing.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  dwk

Nice strawman. If instead of a bike path, the suspect had driven onto a crowded downtown sidewalk to evade police, should the cops do the same? Or might that induce the suspect to take even bigger risks?

Dwk
Dwk
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I assume you know the difference between crowded downtown sidewalks and other places?
Talk about strawmen?
A person who drives a car on a crowded sidewalk would probably be executed on the spot.
Feel better?

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

“Life isn’t a Jason Bourne movie.”

Another good comment to direct at the theif.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

You seem to think that any reckless behavior by a suspect justifies an equivalent escalation of recklessness by the police, despite the risk to the public. I don’t.

Dwk
Dwk
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

So according to your POV, the police should Not have followed and stopped this person unless they did run over someone and at that point they should follow and stop the person?
OK.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Dwk

Nope. Try again.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

“You seem to think…”

That’s not at all what I think. I think that if you are upset about someone driving down a bike trail, you should first and foremost put the blame on the person who chose to do it.

Beyond that, despite the imperative to blame the cops for everything, I will wait until I have a better understanding of what actually happened before I draw any conclusions about secondary actors.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

You’re implying the cops were “secondary actors” who did not “choose” to act as they did. The conclusion you’re headed for is pretty clear.

John
John
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

You see, the cops are just wild animals who can’t resist chasing something that runs much like a cougar you come across in the woods. The best approach is to stand tall, make yourself look big, and back away slowly while making funny loud noises.

Charley
Charley
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I was there. I didn’t see any cop driving 50 mph on the Springwater. The cop I saw was maybe going 10-15mph.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Charley

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Jolly Dodger
Jolly Dodger
1 year ago

Finding the root cause of our city’s problems is essential. The illicit hard drug trade and usage is fueling the desperation in my opinion. To whit – not the smallest part of which is the 40 plus years of middle class guilt associated with the Anslinger/Nixonian “war on drugs”. Go on, I’ll wait till it all sinks in….yea, we’re victims of our own reward. The pat ourselves on the back feeling that came with “drug reform policy” and not prosecuting for personal amounts of any drug will destroy Portland if we don’t have an honest conversation about it, once and for all.

David Hampsten
1 year ago
Reply to  Jolly Dodger

It all stems from city policies on water fluoridation, what General Jack T Ripper called a communist conspiracy – part of the reason so many of the country’s weirdos are drawn to the city in the first place, that and the other official city policy of keeping Portland weird. All the slackers and weirdos that are left here in NC are eager to move to Portland ASAP, or as soon as they can afford it, since everyone here knows that good-paying jobs in Portland are plentiful, marijuana is even sold in supermarkets, and rent is cheap. Or so they say. Lots more coming with their perfectly legal concealed handguns and expired license plates, assuming they don’t get too stoned and lost along the way and end up taking a left in Albuquerque. Enjoy.

Matt P
Matt P
1 year ago

Had enough yet Portland? Can’t virtue signal ourselves out of this one.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago

Here’s something that will instantly stop these incidents from happening. Some people call this revolutionary new technology a “bollard”. This stunning new concept is being provided to you completely free of charge, Portland. Use it wisely.

48ee1e8a0a8f50dce4f8cb9ab418e211_3_XL~2.jpg
Holtz
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

There are bollards on the trail. It appears the driver crossed a grass slope by Oaks Park where there is no fence.

Mark in NoPo
Mark in NoPo
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Nobody seeking to drive on a pedestrian pathway will be stopped by a bollard that they can simply drive around.

There are bollards protecting the street between the elementary school and park at N Delaware and N Bryant, and guess what? Cars can (and sometimes do) just hop the curb and drive around them.

If it was easy to design infrastructure that prevents antisocial people from acting in an antisocial manner, we wouldn’t need police. Alas, solving this problem isn’t as easy as you seem to think.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark in NoPo

The solution there is to put the bollards closer together so people can’t just drive around them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Alternatively, cops could just not engage in high-speed chases where bystanders are likely to be present, as apparently happened here.

Why does sitting in a car “appear[ing] to be passed out” (i.e sleeping) merit an armed police response? Why did police think the driver would try to flee? How exactly did the cop “observe” the driver doing 50 mph on the trail unless they were also driving at 50 mph? There’s so much missing from the official statement that it’s nearly impossible to make any sense of this.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

“it’s nearly impossible to make any sense of this.”

It’s only hard to understand if you ignore or excuse the actions of the primary actor.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

Even if we assume every word of the official statement is true, you seem to suggest that cops are simply incapable of responding to a reckless driver without driving recklessly themselves. I call that pretty short-sighted.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

It’s not clear to me that the cops did drive recklessly.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Given nobody was harmed, it appears they were driving safely.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago

OK, next time somebody in a lifted truck close-passes me on N Interstate at 70 mph, I’ll remember that it’s totally safe as long as you don’t actually maim or kill somebody XDDD

Charley
Charley
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I was there. From what I observed, it was a low speed chase.

Dave Fronk
Dave Fronk
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Doesn’t seem like you’ve spent much time on our MUPs lately, or maybe ever. There are bollards and they’re removed / destroyed / circumvented as quickly as they can be erected. All it takes is a few seconds with a bolt cutter or angle grinder.

If we enforced our trespassing and camping ordinances there’d be very little appeal to driving a car on these paths. Until then, we all get to have our lives threatened.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Fronk

If only there were a type of bollard that couldn’t be removed in a few seconds with bolt cutters. You know, the kind that people might use to protect things they actually care about, like property. Ah well, I guess that kind of thing is just a pipe dream lol

TF853347.jpg
JP
JP
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Cemented bollards would certainly provide more security, but they also would prevent access for official vehicles such as first responders and maintenance crews.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  JP

I guess a separate locked gate that can be used by maintenance crews is too monumental an engineering challenge to even dream of lmao

qqq
qqq
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

In places such as path entrances, gates won’t work because they’d block access for people walking and biking.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  qqq

See my reply to MaxD below.

maxD
maxD
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Gates are regularly used, but they limit access by people biking and walking more than bollards and gates are just as easy to disable (cut the chain or lock) than a bollard.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  maxD

If only there were a city bureau responsible for upkeep of access gates to park facilities! Also, I did say *separate* locked gate. As in separate from the path which could still have hardened bollards keeping cars out while allowing bicycle and foot traffic to pass through.

PTB
PTB
1 year ago
Reply to  JP

I was in Europe recently and we saw in multiple places some very fancy retractable bollards. To enter an area that was blocked off to general auto use, you had a code to input at a keypad, and the bollards would sink momentarily for you to drive past, then they’d raise. This was used at pedestrian plazas or former streets where auto traffic once existed. Are you a delivery driver? You somehow were given the code to deliver to that market you need to deliver to. Were you some dude that just wanted to use that plaza/street to get where you’re going? You do not get or know the code and the bollards keep you out. Surely not the cheapest option but it is a system that makes sense and kept pedestrian areas pedestrian areas and allowed those workers that needed to access that area a way for them to do their job.

Just Talkin’ Bollards here, I saw ZERO flimsy plastic wands anywhere. Want autos off sidewalks, out of bike lanes, etc. USE HARD BOLLARDS. They were everywhere and it was dreamy.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

If only there were a type of bollard that couldn’t be removed in a few seconds with bolt cutters.

Of course there are, but an ambulance or fire truck can’t get past them in an emergency.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts
qqq
qqq
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Those are listed as being for “low security” installations in the manufacturer’s info.

You’re right it looks like they couldn’t be removed quickly with bolt cutters, which was what the comment you were responding to mentioned.

But the bollard issue is more complicated than your several comments seem to describe. First you show bollards that can’t be moved. When that’s pointed out, you mention gates, that wouldn’t work for path users. Then you mention retractable bollards, which do seem more promising, but on the other hand, Parks hasn’t been using them as far as I know. Since they’ve been readily available and fairly common, it seems like Parks must know about them, but has decided they’re not a good option.

maxD
maxD
1 year ago
Reply to  qqq

Retractable bollards are super expensive, require an electrical connection (new drop + monthly bills), tech training and on-going service, a whole new system to provide access to utility providers, emergency responders, City maintenance staff, and on the Springwater, they would need to update agreements with the railroad. Adding retractable bollards at every entry point along the Springwater would be a huge, complex undertaking and cost millions.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Fronk

Also, I ride by the Hazelnut Grove village off the North Greeley bike path multiple times a week. I have never been harassed, threatened, intimidated, or even spoken to by any of the residents. You’re just fear-mongering.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Fronk

Way more often do I have my life threatened by aggressive and/or distracted drivers of expensive SUVs in the Pearl District. Weird that you would focus only on people camping on public property who have nowhere else to sleep.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago

Did anyone see the story about the poor women who was hit by a vehicle. Due to understaffing PPB says they can’t investigate!

https://www.kptv.com/2023/04/16/74-year-old-injured-se-portland-hit-and-run-police-say-not-enough-resources-investigate/

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JP
JP
1 year ago

I’m glad the driver was caught; hopefully he won’t be released in a couple days and be allowed to continue to steal and endanger the public. Imagine what a difference it would make to public safety and livibility if we actually put the bad guys in jail.

Shannon Johnson (Family Biking Columnist)
Shannon Johnson (Family Biking Columnist)
1 year ago
Reply to  JP

I haven’t seen any updates on the topic of public defenders, but some months ago I recall reading that there is a serious shortage of public defenders in Portland. Without public defenders, our justice system can’t operate. Suspected criminals have to be released, I think(?), if we lack court-appointed lawyers to defend them. I really feel badly for any police who are doing their job, only to see the offender back on the street because there aren’t enough defenders for trials. (It also could be stressful for anyone arrested and in need of a defender, as they can’t resolve their case without one.) Anyone know of an update on this?

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago

Not saying it doesn’t play a role but It seems the lack of public defenders is the latest excuse by Mike Schmidt to explain his low prosecution percentage. Washington and Clackamas County DA’s seem to be getting it done.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/multnomah-county-misdemeanor-theft-shoplifting-prosecutions/283-f787c79b-a70c-4cb6-b48a-fb22cafbc15d

Daniel Reimer
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Who will be your boogeyman once Mike Scmidt is gone? Several months ago I thought all of Portlands problems was because of Hardesty?

These are not problems caused by single individuals. Rectifying system issues is hard and is not helpful to play the blame game.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  JP

The USA has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. Imagine thinking that more of the same failed strategy will do anything to improve public safety lmao

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I actually agree (I’ve said before that I’m generally in favor of giving people the minimum punishment needed to prevent recidivism, which in some cases might be minimal), but our failure is not incarcerating people, it’s in failing to prevent people from getting to the point where incarceration is necessary.

I’ve seen no evidence that, in the general case, forgoing punishment of adult criminals makes communities safer.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

Of course not, since the terms “punishment” and “criminals” are malleable enough to give you whatever result you want. I was responding to a comment about “bad guys”. Well, I’ve seen no evidence that “bad guys” categorically exist.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

I’m not sure why you think “bad guys” don’t exist, but surely you recognize that some people are habitual criminals, abusers, and predators. Those are examples of “bad guys”.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

Interesting that there seem to be so many more “bad guys” in places like the USA compared to literally all other developed nations with functioning social safety nets. Just one of those strange coincidences, I’m sure.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Interesting… safety nets… strange coincidences

Why are you getting all sarcastic that with me? That’s pretty much exactly what I said just two comments above where I also talked about preferring a light touch on penalizing people.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Watts

Calling someone a “bad guy” suggests they are “bad” and irredeemable by nature. It’s a rhetorical trick used to demonize entire groups of people and portray any structural reforms as misguided at best and harmful at worst. It’s something six-year-olds say while playing cops and robbers, not a basis for sound public policy.

Parto Gomez
Parto Gomez
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Moderator:
it’s time to cut off Daniel.

jakeco969
jakeco969
1 year ago
Reply to  Parto Gomez

I want the subscription/membership level that Daniel Fuller has cause apparently its the Gold standard.

jakeco969
jakeco969
1 year ago

Thank you for listening and responding Jonathan. I think Lisa has been doing really well as a moderator. She shut down DWK’s and my discussion when it went on a touch too long at an appropriate time a while back and I was just surprised she didnt step in again.

John
John
1 year ago
Reply to  Parto Gomez

Yes, please, lets silence one of the few counter-balances to the tough on crime, police can do no wrong, broken windows crime narrative going on here.

Or I don’t know, let there actually be another point of view. One shared by others who don’t have the energy to stand up to the abuse you will immediately get for having a bit of (usually correct in hindsight) skepticism towards cops.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  John

Thanks John. I won’t deny I enjoy a good sh*tpost, but I try to reserve the worst mockery for users pushing a reactionary authoritarian agenda. Mostly try to point out hypocrisy when I see it. Apologies to Jonathan if I made his job harder than it needs to be.

Trike Guy
Trike Guy
1 year ago

So, they had time to deploy spike strips, but not enough time tp place a squad car bumper to bumper at each end of the suspect vehicle?

If they had done that, then there would have been no chase and no threat to innocent bystanders.

Jenni S
Jenni S
1 year ago
Reply to  Trike Guy

It’s easy to play “armchair quarterback”. Unless you have law enforcement experience and intimate knowledge of the situation that appears to be complete conjecture.

qqq
qqq
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

You don’t need to have “law enforcement experience and intimate knowledge of the situation” to know that parking a car in front and behind a parked car blocks it from driving away.

There could be reasons why they didn’t do that, but wondering why they didn’t block it in with their cars is an obvious thing to wonder.

Calling out “armchair quarterbacking” is similar to the “leave it to the experts” callout that’s also rarely productive.

Trike Guy
Trike Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Police use their cars to box in suspect vehicles all the time.

They did, in fact, deploy spike strips which takes longer than boxing a vehicle in – no conjecture there.

100’s of innocent bystanders die each year during police chases – that’s also not conjecture.

Watts
Watts
1 year ago
Reply to  Trike Guy

Was the stolen car parked in a way that boxing in would have worked? I don’t know, you don’t know. It’s conjecture.

Parto Gomez
Parto Gomez
1 year ago
Reply to  Trike Guy

Citation please on the “hundreds” who die each year.

Daniel Fuller
Daniel Fuller
1 year ago
Reply to  Jenni S

Funny how criticizing the DA and politicians is fine but criticizing the cops is “armchair quarterbacking” lol

Parto Gomez
Parto Gomez
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel Fuller

Criticizing is one thing. Trike guy was giving tactical advice regarding a situation when they weren’t even there or have experience in law enforcement. Sort of like an electrician giving legal advice to a DA about how to prosecute a crime.

Drizzle
Drizzle
1 year ago

Ok. Now get the kids on dirt and mini-bikes going 30+ on this same trail. Ditto the one-wheelers. The amount of close calls I’ve had with vehicles with engines on the Springwater and other “car-free” paths is incredibly frightening and frustrating.