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New diverters on Ankeny and Lincoln part of plan to keep drivers off side streets

Posted by on December 14th, 2018 at 10:46 am

New driving discouragers on SE Ankeny at 15th.
(Photos: Jonathan Maus/BikePortland)


“Things have changed a lot since we did our neighborhood greenway assessment [in 2015]… There’s more traffic pressure.”
— Roger Geller, PBOT

Life is slowly but surely getting harder for people who drive in Portland. And that’s exactly what the Bureau of Transportation is aiming for. In the past week they’ve laid down median diverters that limit where we can drive. The goal is to encourage us to keep our cars off what are known as neighborhood greenways — streets where cycling is supposed to be the priority mode of travel.

But as Portland’s roads have become filled with too many drivers in recent years, PBOT has had to do more to defend greenways from an onslaught of traffic-dodgers staring into Waze and Google Map apps in an attempt to shave a few seconds off their trip. Unfortunately those apps often lead people onto (what should be quiet) side streets that have been engineered specifically to make cycling less stressful. To end this cycle of more drivers and more stressful conditions on side streets, PBOT has added new diverters at two locations: on SE Ankeny at 15th and SE 50th at Lincoln.

SE Ankeny and 15th

As it should be: Driver forced off, bicycle rider allowed to continue.

PBOT image shows what they’ll look like when finished.

As we reported in 2014, many drivers swoop onto Ankeny to avoid the traffic further west at the Burnside/Couch couplet. Thanks to activists with Bike Loud and Buckman neighborhood residents, PBOT agreed to install a temporary diverter at 15th. They made good on their promise in July 2016 by placing large concrete planters and yellow caution signs in the middle of the intersection. The treatment prevented people from driving straight through 15th, forcing westbound drivers to turn north (back to Burnside) and eastbound drivers south.

This week PBOT made those temporary diverters permanent by laying down concrete median islands. The new islands are easier on the eye and are intended to accomplish the same result. PBOT told us this morning that more signage and vertical elements are still to come. They include (but are not limited to): stop signs facing north and south, yellow warning signs that alert people to the presence of people biking through the intersection, yellow and black striped sign, and signage leading up to the intersection indicating that it’s not for through-traffic, only bicycle traffic.

SE Lincoln and 50th

PBOT’s final design (note the car parking space on northeast corner).

It’s been a year since the infamous open house where opposition to the Lincoln-Harrison neighborhood greenway project went absolutely off-the-rails. PBOT’s attempts to reduce the amount of driving on Lincoln were met with epic opposition. Ultimately PBOT won the day with a revised plan that came out in March.

One of the biggest sticking points was a diverter at 50th and Lincoln. PBOT had to do something because this intersection had the highest volume of drivers of anywhere on the greenway — 2,300 cars per day east west of 50th and 1,500 east of it. The city’s goal for greenways is under 1,000 cars per day.

They settled on a compromise design that would place diverters in the middle of 50th to prevent people from driving through the intersection and limit some turning movements.

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Work began this week to install the diverter. However, some activists are crying foul because PBOT has altered the design since it was last shown to the public.

The plan before PBOT made the tweak to add a parking space. Compare it to the image above.

On Tuesday, local resident Andrea Brown with the Safer Lincoln group emailed PBOT Capitol Project Manager Sheila Parrott. Brown was concerned that the new design, “Has created an unsafe jog in the bicycle flow in order to accommodate an extraneous parking space on the northeast corner.” Brown added that her group was aware that an adjacent neighbor had contacted PBOT to request a parking spot in front of their house (which has its own driveway).

Parrott wrote to Brown that, “Following resident input, we revised the plan to remove the on-street parking on the south side and provide a disabled parking space on the north side. Although this type of parking space is generally used by the person making the request for the space, it is not a personal space. Anyone displaying the disabled placard can use the space.”

Another transportation activist and local resident named Betsy Reese emailed PBOT with several concerns about the new design. One problem she mentioned was that it, “Forces westbound cyclists to veer to the left to get past a stopped car, then veer to the right to line up at the gap in the diverter.” Reese wanted the parking spot moved further east to avoid conflicts at the intersection.

A PBOT traffic engineer replied to Reese to say the current layout is only a prototype and they plan to monitor her concerns as part of the evaluation

A brand new greenway treatment

Conspicuity is the goal.

In other neighborhood greenway news, PBOT unveiled a new idea at the Bicycle Advisory Committee meeting on Tuesday night. Citing what he sees as, “more traffic pressure” on neighborhood greenways since PBOT’s assessment report was passed by council in August 2015, PBOT bicycle program manager Roger Geller said they’re considering a new approach. Geller shared a list of projects up for possible funding in 2019-2020 that included one described as, “An innovative attempt to highlight the visibility of bicycle priority on neighborhood greenways.” The idea is to double the frequency of sharrow markings, possibly add painted stop lines on side streets, and add other signage as needed.

Geller said he’s noticed that many people ride in the door-zone on neighborhood greenways — a sign of stress likely caused by fears of drivers coming from behind. Geller wants to make Portland greenways more “readable as a bikeway.” In addition to more sharrows and signage, he’d like couple that with an education program. The goal would be to make it more difficult for people in cars to pass bicycle users, which would hopefully discourage people from driving on greenways altogether.


UPDATE: Reader 9watts (who’s concerned about the width of the biking gaps being too wide) has sent us fresher photos of the Ankeny/15th diverters:

— Jonathan Maus: (503) 706-8804, @jonathan_maus on Twitter and jonathan@bikeportland.org

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EP
Guest
EP

Not sure about that change on the NE corner. Seems like a PBOT comprimise w/ the homeowners. Their house has a driveway on 50th, they converted their garage to an ADU in 2016, and the driveway into trailer storage. There was concern about safety of turning into their driveway off of 50th, with high-speed traffic and the bus stop there. Seems like the diverter would help calm traffic for them. Considerations for handicapped parking makes sense, but maybe not at the detriment of a design of something that benefits the many. Moving that space east would keep bicyclists closer to the north curb, and out of the way of people making a wide turn in their car.

Interesting that they have blurred out their house on all Google street views… It wasn’t that way awhile back. Wow, this diverter issue made things crazy.

Per PBOT:
“A property owner may request a disability parking space be placed along their fronting property when:

-Property is located outside of a metered or permitted zone and
-Property is zoned residential and
-There is no off-street parking (off-street parking space definition: An off-street parking space included parking lots, parking structures, garages, carports, driveways without carports or garages or any other legal parking space on private property) and
-There are no more than 2 disability spaces already on the block face or 500 feet of lineal curb feet from the requestor address and
-The property requesting accommodation is not on an unimproved roadway.”
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/64922

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

The property owners were against the idea of any diverter. The advocates that showed up were for them. Very little compromises were made. Unless you call a “temporary” diverter as some sort of compromise?

What comments have been made on the PBOT post of the changes? Things like”I’ll feel safer when I travel to SE in the future,” which means that the advocates from NoPo are the one’s who will benefit from this project.

idlebytes
Guest
idlebytes

Why are you using comments on facebook to determine who will benefit from this diverter? I use this intersection almost every day and live over in that neighborhood. I also see many other cyclists on that street they will also obviously benefit from it. Do you really think most of the people biking on this street don’t live in the area?

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Well, they most assuredly didn’t use the comments from the open house. And of course a select few from the neighborhood use it. My guess is 16% of commuters. I’m sad that we didn’t meet when I was a neighbor for a few years.

idlebytes
Guest
idlebytes

How could you have possibly arrived at that 16% number did you go door to door? The number I’m more interested in is the percent of the 2,900 drivers that actually need to use that road to get to their destination. As far as the comments go why would they change their stated plan to put in a diverter if there was too much cut through traffic? That’s a non starter the road is already a greenway and they have set goals for the number of cars on it. The time to comment on that was when they were considering making it a greenway.

It’s interesting your initial post was complaining about people not living there benefiting from the diverter while you don’t even live there yourself. Don’t be sad you can always share your dislike for everything PBOT to me here 🙂

Gary B
Guest
Gary B

Wow, second time this week you’ve disparagingly referenced North Portlanders usage of roads in southeast and our input on their design. Guess what Doug, it’s not a private road. You’re damn right it will benefit me. Thanks.

Chris I
Guest
Chris I

If you look at Google Streetview, the entire house in question is blurred out. Very peculiar…

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Anyone can request Google blur out their house.

MantraPDX
Guest
MantraPDX

Having interacted with this neighbor a number of times I believe ***portion of comment deleted by moderator. reported by reader as inappropriate***

soren
Guest
soren

Ableism sure is a nice look for cycling “advocates”.

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

So what you’re saying is that because they have a driveway and garage (their fault it’s now an ADU) that they don’t even qualify for this spot. And that they’re afraid of motor vehicle traffic while driving so they inconvenienced vulnerable road users as a whole to make themselves feel better.

And PBOT was happy to oblige.

With the diverter and new lower speed limit things will be a lot more mellow on 50th around there. Especially with the bus completely blocking the road due to the new tapering. People will be used to being stopped and won’t be so angry at somebody accessing their driveway.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Someone should tell Roger that if the city keeps eliminating lanes on main thoroughfares then this is probably going to be the result. This really isn’t brain surgery. It’s common sense. As I have thought more about Aaron Brown’s campaign against the freeways and induced demand, I can’t help but wonder what die hard “transportation geniuses” think will be the result. If ODOT wants to put people on other roads, city streets, what do we really think the end goal will be? More stress for everyone and tranporting on eggshells.

This will be enjoyable to watch over the next few years. Hopefully by then I won’t be cycling downtown daily or hell, live in this mess.

BradWagon
Subscriber

They don’t want to put people on other roads, they want to put people on other vehicles…. it’s not rocket surgery Doug.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

GOOD LUCK 🙂

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Induced demand works in reverse.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

I’m just merely repeating the silliness that the state, city, and nomorefreewayspdx is trying to sell the majority of the population and wrapping it up in separate efforts as to not make it sounds as wild as it is.

Andrew N
Guest
Andrew N

Jonathan should start an “incoherent comment of the week” series for stuff like this. Except he is too nice. Way nicer than I’m inclined to be here at the end of 2018.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Sorry you weren’t able to understand. I feel bad for you. : (

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I get on my bus or train, stare at my phone for a while, and then I’m at my destination. No fuss, no stress. Well, unless I forget my stop.

Ted Timmons (Contributor)
Editor

The openings are seven feet wide:

Ford F150: 6ft 8 inches wide
Honda Accord, modern: 6-1
Honda Accord, 90s: 5-7
Honda CRV: 6-6
Honda Odyssey: 6-6
Volvo 240: 5-7

Ah, but it’s hard to squeeze a 6-8 truck through a 7-0 opening, you say. Sure, but it can be done at slower speed, especially if that width is at the curb, not full height.

9watts
Subscriber

Funny you should post this. I just biked through there (Ankeny and 15th) a few minutes ago and noticed that same thing. I sent Jonathan some pictures of the islands with freshly painted curbs. The gaps are crazy wide. Easy for non-large cars to fit. Whose idea was it to open them up to 7′? Isn’t there a standard?

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

Westbound gap is 7′ 10″. That’s insane.

9watts
Subscriber

Ha!
I only walked off the East one and assumed they were both the same… So much for standards.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Tony,
Is ‘insane’ your professional opinion? Which trailer do you tow?

X
Guest
X

What bike trailer is more than 4 feet wide?

9watts
Subscriber

Only when I have a load of drywall.

9watts
Subscriber

The car that is parked out in front of my house has a track of 5’3″.
Just saying.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

If one were to break the “rules” I think they’d being doing it below the 20 is plenty threshold.

Ted Timmons (Contributor)
Editor

a Miata is 5-5, a modern-era Mini is 5-6, an original Mini is something like 4-7. But I was trying to avoid cars that people wouldn’t necessarily lump in the “too small” range, even if I disagree with the categorization for several reasons.

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

An Explorer’s track is 5′ 7″. According to Ford.

X
Guest
X

DINO — diverter in name only

bikeninja
Guest
bikeninja

The problem is not eliminating lanes on main thoroughfares, or putting diverters on side streets , the problem is as a form of transportation in relatively dense urban areas the personal automobile is a technological dead end. It takes up too much room to store (park) it takes up to much space to travel anywhere ( bad capacity per lane), and it uses too many resources to make and too much energy too operate. Nearly every one of the things discussed here on Bike Portland is an attempt to mitigate the inherent problems with useing a mismatched technology ( cars) to accomplish a goal (personal urban transportation). Try to solve these problems inherent in the technology just adds complexity, and causes problems to pop up elsewhere. Its like doing surgery with a chain saw, or mowing your lawn with a helicopter.

chris m
Guest
chris m

Only a small part of Portland is dense enough to make driving a car truly not make sense. This is basically downtown Portland during a workday, and a few of the close-in West Side residential neighborhoods (Pearl, parts of NW, and Goose Hollow/Kings Hill). Everywhere else in the city driving is relatively uncongested and parking is free and abundant. As much as I love riding my bike throughout NE/SE neighborhoods, these areas easily have enough street capacity for cars. That’s because while these places have some characteristics of urban neighborhoods, they are by and large a suburban build environment outside a few major corridors. I would love to get to the point where driving in large parts of the city is a worse option than biking or taking the train because we’ve densified so much, but at the moment Portland is broadly a suburban-style city with suburban-style transportation habits. That means we really aren’t at the point (in most of the city) where street scarcity is causing cars to be an inferior choice. We should really try our best to get there though, since all this driving is choking the planet and killing us through lack of movement.

bikeninja
Guest
bikeninja

Cars as a transportation technology in a city like Portland only make sense , as you say, when observed through the lens of the actual user. The real problem is the externalities. Many things seem like a good idea for the user like Strip Mining, Clear Cutting and Large Scale application of Pesticides but the devil is in the externalities that are paid by others. Things like cut-thru traffic threatening neighborhoods, kids no longer able to walk 4 blocks to school, excessive runoff from impervious surfaces created for cars, lack of affordable housing, and pedestrians being run down in cross walks are the externalities that represent the true costs of operating cars in the city. If they driver could bear the real costs of their transportation folly it would be a different story.

Daniel Amoni
Guest
Daniel Amoni

Chris, I agree with your assessment of much of Portland being suburban and designed for auto use, but it would “make sense” to bike if their was a safe network. As it is, you have to be pretty able, confident, and stubborn to commit to biking as your primary mode of transportation. I am fortunate that I am all three, but for many it just doesn’t make sense to ride on streets with fast, dominating cars.

Laura
Guest
Laura

Great! Now let’s do the same on Clinton and 50th. Barrier it just past the new apartment driveway.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

When the project was undertaken, Clinton west of 50th was already meeting the car volume standard.

dee
Guest
dee

The diverter at SE 32 + Clinton is perplexing, with its narrow entry points on the sides, and yet, there is space on the curb (not painted yellow) where a car is consistently blocking the narrow NW entry way. I have reported countless parking “violations” that block this diverter, written to the city…and nothing.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

This location?
https://goo.gl/maps/Cbu7qFbvsZM2
The same 7′ gaps for bikes? And the edge islands with inside edges 7 feet from the curb?
The centerline islands are skewed so a fire truck can straddle them.

John
Guest
John

Now only if the traffic diverters were tall enough to stop 4×4’s from driving over them…

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

And fire trucks…

maxD
Guest
maxD

I love the idea of adding more sharrows marking and painting stop bars on side streets. I also like both of these diverters. I think PBOT was adding signs to the one on Ankeney this morning.

Bill Stites
Subscriber

If the openings are 7 feet wide, that is clearly too wide – due to mentions above of driver abuses. Just take a look at what happens out there in the real world.
Why not 5 feet?

With turning movements by drivers allowed from 50th northbound to Lincoln eastbound, the jog created by adding the parking space near the NE corner creates a genuine hazard for westbound cyclists on Lincoln – of getting head-on’d by drivers taking the turn too fast and wide.

Safety must override convenience.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Have you observed this, or is it a fear?

Jay Dedd
Guest
Jay Dedd

Sure hope you’re not saying another youthful human sacrifice is required before consideration. Vision Zero and all. https://www.kptv.com/news/pbot-to-install-new-crosswalk-on-hawthorne-where-teen-was/article_d49ebcf8-334b-5c72-8e2f-4c368aa43764.html

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

Ah, yes, the PBOT Reactive Gold Standard. Don’t make a change until someone actually gets hurt/killed. So Paikiala, which one of your family members are you cool with getting hurt so that you have your proof.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Who decides which fear is too far to design for?

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

Oh, please. Who decides which death/injury requires a redesign? Because clearly Portland doesn’t respond to each and everyone. Decisions are being made. There are people whose job it is to make decisions. I’d just rather they happen BEFORE death/injury.

Also, you didn’t answer my question.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Your question is insulting and not deserving of an answer.

MantraPDX
Guest
MantraPDX

Yikes! I’m relatively new here and was reading your previous comments thinking “Wow, this person seems defensive. Wonder if they work for the City in some capacity?”

Now I’m thinking: “Wow, I hope this person doesn’t work for the City and that this dismissive attitude isn’t a symptom of the culture in that organization.”

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

I’ve observed it at nearly every tight turn. Drivers want speed and don’t slow down enough to take the turns without veering into the other lane.

paikiala
Guest
alex toevs
Guest
alex toevs

i railed against the design and lack of visibility of the 15th and ankeny diverters when the temp design went up. the permanent design lower profile and significantly better!

now if we could only remove parking 20 feet from the edge of curb on all sides of intersections along bikeways..

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Ankeny at 15th already has parking removed per the new policy (nearside left of side street on bikeway), and has parking removed on 15th opposite the stop signs.

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

So significantly better that I saw a driver bypass the diverters within 24 hrs of the new ones going up. Finally, we’re safe from the scourge of diverters that worked!

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Ankeny at 15th already has parking removed per the new policy (nearside left of side street on bikeway), and has parking removed on 15th opposite the stop signs.

soren
Guest
soren

“Things have changed a lot since we did our neighborhood greenway assessment [in 2015]… There’s more traffic pressure.”
— Roger Geller, PBOT

One of BikeLoud’s arguments for more pervasive diversion was that we would need to accommodate the natural tendency of Neighborhood Greenways to attract cut-through Uber/Lyft drivers and other “app” users (wayz). I hope this means that PBOT is becoming more willing to consider diversion by default.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Enough so to where they will by data from your cell company to find out.

Terry D-M
Guest
Terry D-M

the 52nd Greenway southbound is now so backed up some days with cars, that wait several light cycles at Division, making cyclists have to either pass and squeeze in front of a stopped vehicle or in between the travel lane and the parked cars. If this diverter at 50th is going to work, Westside parking on 52nd from Division to Lincoln needs to be converted to a bike lane, as I said when this design first appeared.

Hopefully, Tri-Met delays will show this so PBOT can react appropriately.

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Hell, I’m just hoping that the light can be adjusted so I can be inspired to actually want to wait for that light. I have yet to count how long drivers on Division get but 52nd gets maybe 8 seconds. That simply isn’t good enough.

mh
Subscriber

I want diversion on the intersecting legacy greenway – SE 16th! Evening rush hour on 16th anywhere near Ankeny is often bumper-to-bumper northbound cars. Southbound is not as bad.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Like at the circle?

mh
Subscriber

At Salmon? The intersection of two much-abused legacy greenways? Which one would you send motor vehicles onto? Divert them before the circle, on all four legs. (Can you hear me growling?)

Between Hawthorne and Irving – where there is very unfortunately a freeway entrance – there should be something like four or five diverters. I haven’t fantasized which kind and which streets I’d want them on, but Portland needs to believe its own gospel, and practice what we (used to?) preach. Make greenways work.

mh

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Ash.

mh
Subscriber

OK, onto Ash. From both northbound and southbound 16th? I’ll buy that. Where in the 1.1 miles between Hawthorne and Irving would you place the other three or four this stretch needs to become “all ages and abilities”?

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

One way contra-flow bike between Morrison and Belmont, maybe.
2017 counts south of Belmont only measured 500-600 car trips a day.

Another northbound one way plus contraflow bike layout north of Burnside. The refuges at Burnside can’t become a barrier as long as Tri-Met turns north there.

Buffered bike lanes north of Sandy or maybe a one way combination. The angle parking should change to back in, if only for cyclist safety.

Doug Klotz
Subscriber

Agree. Certainly something should be done on 16th between Sandy and Irving with the super-wide roadway. Change parking to back-in. Perhaps put bike lanes behind parking (even the back-in) and the curb, (and install a separate curb to keep parkers out of bike lane).

mh
Subscriber

SO HOW DO WE MAKE THIS HAPPEN? Contra-flow bike lane on 34th between Division and Clinton required only paint and wands; I don’t know that the political cost was huge, either.

The need is obvious, and this has obviously been studied. What’s missing is the will, or PBOT’s confidence that Council will support active transportation projects. Do it as a quiet addition to the CCIM.

mh

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

MH,
Unfunded

9watts
Subscriber

Unfunded…

What I want to know is why your reliably defensive and ill-humored stance on pretty much all issues is funded.

mark smith
Guest
mark smith

Seriously, I can get my 2001 camry through there without skipping a beat. It’s waaaay too wide.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

You’ve tried it?

X
Guest
X

No he hasn’t ridden on Clinton

matchupancakes
Guest
matchupancakes

BikePortland.org
“possibly add painted stop lines[…]”

This should be standard. Does the current inventory of stop signs within the City include a variable for “stop line present?” What is the cost of adding a stop line? Can it be scaled to roll out across the city? Where do I send my check to get this started?

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

materials are at least $50 per stop bar.

matchupancakes
Guest
matchupancakes

Ah, thank for you for the material cost information! That certainly helps when conceptualizing what “completing” the thousands of stop signs present throughout the city would begin to cost on a materials alone. Greenways would be a welcome start with a more limited, focused application.

Doug Klotz
Subscriber

What happened to the giant arrows planned at 15th and Ankeny (at the top of the diagonal-striped signs, which also looked larger in the photo mockup)?

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Which photo mock up?

Doug Klotz
Subscriber

The one labeled “PBOT photo shows what they’ll look like when finished”. Compare to 9Watt’s first photo. It looks like the “V-shaped arrows” above the striped panels won’t be able to be added at the center because of the stop sign for the other traffic. And the striped panels, especially the one on the right, don’t seem as large.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

Optional tool, among others, should it be needed.

soren
Guest
soren

“The goal would be to make it more difficult for people in cars to pass bicycle users, which would hopefully discourage people from driving on greenways altogether.”

There is a cheap and effective solution to this goal, Roger.

Pervasive diversion!

Glenn of Confusion (that's what the world is today, hey-hey)
Guest
Glenn of Confusion (that's what the world is today, hey-hey)

Maybe this has been discussed previously elsewhere, or maybe I’m not seeing the whole picture, but if I’m driving north or south on 15th, doesn’t the diverter force me ONTO a greenway?

Doug Hecker
Guest
Doug Hecker

Yep. And many of those cars could care less about the stop signs.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

A common complaint along greenways.

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

It’s the wrong place for a stop sign. It should be on the corner as is standard.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

And if on the greenway, if forces them off – glass half full.
The preservation of circulation around the church property at the SW corner was a goal of the project.

soren
Guest
soren

No. The Neighborhood Greenway (“that has not received the full neighborhood greenway treatment”) is on 16th.

Ted
Guest
Ted

I think this is an unfortunate design. The precast concrete pipes set on end had soil in them, creating micro spaces for green in the ‘greenway’. This design nips out that micro green. PBOT needs to get real about integrating green in their greenway designs. They’ve gone backwards in recent years. Many of their earlier designs had more green.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

The portions funded by BES?

X
Guest
X

So, city departments shouldn’t work together on projects that advance more than one goal?

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

BES only pays for $20k swales where it benefits their system. Tops of hills need not apply.

Joseph Munsinger
Guest
Joseph Munsinger

Heads up, I don’t think the diverters at Lincoln and 50th are very popular. The reason why I say this is that last night, I was stopped at the light, headed north on 50th. A guy in big red truck, westbound on Lincoln, then TURNED LEFT, between the diverter an my car, almost hitting me. I gave a spirited honk, so maybe he has been shamed from ever doing that again. But I would be very careful of these neighborhood denizens, as they are ignoring the planters.

MantraPDX
Guest
MantraPDX

paikiala
Mark,Was your complaint about a specific intersection (what 823-SAFE can address) or proposing a city-wide implementation plan? 10,000 intersections x $75/sign+post x 2 per intersection = $1.5M just to meet the minimum standard of removing the nearest approach first space. I’m still not sure most on this blog would be satisfied.Recommended 0

This tax payer would be satisfied, despite the veiled insult.

1.5 mil out of a budget of over 400 mil is a drop in the hat and the benefits would easily justify the cost.

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

You’re describing a city-wide effort? 823-SAFE is not the place to make such requests.
Any criteria for where to invest first, since it appears the trained professionals are clearly wrong.

mark
Guest
mark

I did not make my request to 823-SAFE. I wrote a letter to PBOT.

sikoler
Guest
sikoler

If we didn’t intentionally gridlock main rush hour streets with ‘traffic calming’ motorists wouldn’t *need* to divert through neighborhoods.

This is another example of irrational bike activists working against their own interests. It’s irrational to make all vehicles with 4 wheels the enemy.

We must start working to help rush hour commuters and design for flow. The “bad for cars = good for bikes” mentality is actually harming our city.

9watts
Subscriber

“It’s irrational to make all vehicles with 4 wheels the enemy.”

You come up with the darnedest things.

Motor vehicles are responsible for so much collective ill (and plenty of better known if more limited individual benefits) that your attempts at rescuing them from our scorn really isn’t going to make much of a difference. Too little too late, I’m afraid.

X
Guest
X

that sikoler, always tinkling at the tornado on BP

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

“If we didn’t intentionally gridlock main rush hour streets with ‘traffic calming’ motorists wouldn’t *need* to divert through neighborhoods.”

I agree. We need to get those motorists off the streets so they’ll stop causing all the gridlock. But they keep thinking it will magically get better and they’ll get to keep operating their personal parlors with ease as more of them fill the streets. Those trying to get somewhere efficiently would be better off without them.

MantraPDX
Guest
MantraPDX

sikoler
If we didn’t intentionally gridlock main rush hour streets with ‘traffic calming’ motorists wouldn’t *need* to divert through neighborhoods.This is another example of irrational bike activists working against their own interests. It’s irrational to make all vehicles with 4 wheels the enemy.We must start working to help rush hour commuters and design for flow. The “bad for cars = good for bikes” mentality is actually harming our city.Recommended 0

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. We’re here talking about a diverter on a greenway. Last I checked about 2% of the streets in Portland are designated greenways. Greenways full of peds, cyclists, etc that could otherwise be in a car adding to the traffic mess. In other words… easing car traffic on other streets to help keep things flowing.

I don’t understand how a discussion about the design of a diverter installed on a greenway constitutes ‘irrational bike activists working against their own interests’ or a ‘bad for cars = good for bikes’ mentality.

9watts
Subscriber

Yeah, I’m with you.
sikoler works that (his favorite) phrase into every post.

Andrew Kreps
Guest
Andrew Kreps

“2,300 cars per day east of 50th and 1,500 east of it. ” I assume the first east is west?

paikiala
Guest
paikiala

MH,
Unfunded.

X
Guest
X

Well then, this is the diverter for that, the common situation where a bike hauler is carrying a load of drywall crosswise 😉 That’s the way to take a lane.

I did a scrap-wood-and-screw-gun modification to carry panels longways on my trailer, it looked pretty scrappy but it worked.

X
Guest
X

supposed to follow 9watts comment about hauling drywall. Good for them!

MantraPDX
Guest
MantraPDX

paikiala
You’re describing a city-wide effort? 823-SAFE is not the place to make such requests. Any criteria for where to invest first, since it appears the trained professionals are clearly wrong.Recommended 0

It’s unfortunately you’re taking this approach, Paikiala. I’m not sure why you’re treating me (us?) as the enemy, but that’s not the case. Since it’s been alluded to that you’re here representing PBOT I assume we have the same or similar interests.

You said you don’t believe anyone here would be satisfied. I replied that I would be satisfied and offered my opinion. That’s it. It’s just like, my opinion, man. Geesh.

Jason
Guest
Jason

I was actually thinking recently that I’d like to see more of the concrete barrels on Ankeny.

I’ve already spotted black tire marks on the fresh yellow paint. This is a sad and futile waste of money. Nothing has been accomplished. There is no deterrence.

Daniel S
Guest
Daniel S

I don’t think concrete barrels are the solution. Motorist compliance at the Clinton and 32nd facility got much better when the permanent, concrete facilities were installed. Compliance is still far from perfect there. But the barrels were essentially useless.

Maybe barrels with narrow gaps, like the ones on N Central in St Johns would be OK. But PBOT doesn’t seem to be doing bikeway diverters like that anymore.

soren
Guest
soren

This cracked me up:

paikiala December 14, 2018 at 1:40 pm
CROW says 6.5-8.2 feet.
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/334689

If I had to guess, I would expect automobile compliance to be fairly high at this diverter.
PBOT is fairly data-driven so I’m sure we will know whether this diverter has been successful soon enough.

Jason
Guest
Jason

Daniel S
I don’t think concrete barrels are the solution. Motorist compliance at the Clinton and 32nd facility got much better when the permanent, concrete facilities were installed. Compliance is still far from perfect there. But the barrels were essentially useless.Maybe barrels with narrow gaps, like the ones on N Central in St Johns would be OK. But PBOT doesn’t seem to be doing bikeway diverters like that anymore.Recommended 1

All I know is that when the concrete barrels were at SE 15th and Ankeny, cars could not bypass them. Now, the cars can drive over / through the “discouragers”.

9watts
Subscriber

Hard to argue with that concise summary.

mh
Subscriber

And where they can, some do.

MVK
Guest
MVK

The 50th and Lincoln diverter seems to be a success! The roundabout at 51st and Lincoln, previously a significant danger due to cars racing to beat bikes, is now calm in the evening commute. Thank you PBOT!

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

Geller said he’s noticed that many people ride in the door-zone on neighborhood greenways — a sign of stress likely caused by fears of drivers coming from behind. Geller wants to make Portland greenways more “readable as a bikeway.” In addition to more sharrows and signage, he’d like couple that with an education program. The goal would be to make it more difficult for people in cars to pass bicycle users, which would hopefully discourage people from driving on greenways altogether.

If you don’t ride in the door zone then when a car passes you it’s very close to your handlebars (and you). Many feel that people getting out of car is less threatening than a close pass. The routes with slight hills are the worst. Uphill you get the revving sound from the car’s engine along with the greater speed differential. Downhill you get a speeding driver that doesn’t like traveling within the speed limit stuck behind a cyclist.

On many greenways it’s not legally possible to pass a cyclist because the road isn’t wide enough to leave room for them to fall over (7′) and not be in the path of the passing car. Most drivers are passing so close that I can touch their car.

soren
Guest
soren

First of all, someone riding below the designated “basic” speed on a neighborhood greenway (e.g. 10 mph) is obligated to pull over and let faster moving car traffic pass.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425
https://www.tcnf.legal/oregon-bicycle-passing-laws/

Secondly, Oregon’s safe passing law does not apply to motorvehicles traveling at speeds less than 35 mph.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.065

The above “laws” are good examples of why I view law-abiding cycling as a form of car head.

Johnny Bye Carter
Subscriber
Johnny Bye Carter

Why 10 mph? Isn’t it 20 mph? At least per the link for basic speeds, and the posted signs.

That failure-to-pull-over law is so flawed it’d be easy to argue you case, especially on a greenway.

With the passing distance some have said that the “safe distance” defined in the new law can be used as the definition of the old law.

You have good reason to look down on those laws. The laws weren’t created for cyclists and they don’t apply very well.

mh
Subscriber

My interpretation was that the “e.g. 10 mph” was the cyclist’s speed.

What I find interesting about bringing 10 mph into this at all is that’s the speed difference below which drivers will not get tickets. How ’bout the law not expecting us to pull over unless we’re traveling slower than 10 mph below the limit?

soren impey
Guest
soren impey

The slow moving traffic law was appealed and is now binding legal precedent.

Ted
Guest
Ted

I witnessed an SUV roll right through the diverter on SE Ankeny & 15th this past weekend. It hardly slowed down.

Jason
Guest
Jason

Ted
I witnessed an SUV roll right through the diverter on SE Ankeny & 15th this past weekend. It hardly slowed down.Recommended 2

Been really hoping I catch it with mmy bike cam. Not like video evidence would change the rank complacency that let this happen!!! Ironically, I’m told that cyclists complained the barrels were too narrow. Well now they are too wide!!!

9watts
Subscriber

Irony is misplaced.
This is what standards are for.
PBOT isn’t playing a game of darts after hours; this is supposed to be their wheelhouse.

Jason
Guest
Jason

9watts
Irony is misplaced. This is what standards are for. PBOT isn’t playing a game of darts after hours; this is supposed to be their wheelhouse.Recommended 0

“Standards” and “PBOT” are not words that I associate positively. Look aroumd Portland and you will see loads of zaney – one off implementations of bike infrastructure. PBOT is like a college freshman with the urge to experiment with illicit hallucinogens.

9watts
Subscriber

I know. Hard to believe, no?

mh
Subscriber

Easy to believe, nearly impossible to comprehend.

soren
Guest
soren

I spent 30 mins observing the diverter during pm rush hour on Fri and did not see a single motorvehicle violation. This stands in stark contrast to my observations at both permanent Clinton diverters after they were installed.

9watts
Subscriber

Maybe Richmond residents rank much lower when it comes to compliance?

9watts
Subscriber

Check out figure 3.21.4 here: https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ePrimer_modules/module3pt3.cfm

(It is a long document and you have to scroll about half way through.)

Although no dimensions are included, it seems pretty clear to me that the authors (transportation dept. folks) were clued into the specific relationship between auto track widths and diverter widths/approach angles, and that a standard bike lane width does not—as paikiala constantly tries to tell us—govern the thinking about diverter passage width.

9watts
Subscriber

And this from ODOT:

“If the crossing island acts as a diverter to through motor vehicle traffic, include a separate opening in the crossing island 6’ to 8’ in width, or two openings, each 5’ wide. The cut-through area may be angled up to 45 degrees to position bicyclists to face oncoming traffic.”

https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Engineering/Documents_RoadwayEng/HDM_13-Ped-Bicycle.pdf#page7
Section 13.5.2.9

9watts
Subscriber

Any update from PBOT about compliance, usefulness of the installed width at this location?

I bike through there all the time, and the shiny yellow paint has been very thoroughly blackened by car tires, which doesn’t even reflect all the cars which could easily pass without making contact with the curbs… Just curious how and whether any learning takes place over there, or if we get to play along?

TonyT
Subscriber
TonyT

I’ll throw in an update. Drivers constantly bypass these diverters. I just saw 2 back to back drivers do it, one in a full-sized pick-up truck. I’ve been told that this is now an enforcement issue. So PBOT goes in, takes out diverters that work, which admittedly could have been a tad wider, and replaces them with diverters that are 7′-10″ apart, 10″ wider than they claimed, and then they just walk away and leave it to us to call for enforcement which will never happen. So much winning. SMH.

9watts
Subscriber

Anyone who feigns surprise should ask themselves why.

PBOT – any comments? We are led to believe that you folks read bikeportland.

9watts
Subscriber

Hello? PBOT?
Can you comment?

We pay your salaries. How about some accountability?