Checking in on the Sellwood Bridge project

Looking at those aerial views my first thought was ‘what a sea of asphalt 43 has become at the bridge head!’ I’m looking forward to the changes on the bridge itself, but the addition of so many N-S lanes comes (to me) as somewhat of a surprise.

Subscriber

Yeah – and it seems to me that the ODOT-required giant bridge interchange has a lot of benefits for Clackamas County car commuters (Lake Oswego is in Clackamas County) and few for Multnomah County residents.

Guest

davemess

And a ton of benefits for cyclists. Look at how much easier getting to the cemetery is going to be, no more weird under loop to a very long traffic light.

Subscriber

The project as a whole – for sure, it’s going to be awesome!! The interchange design required by ODOT – not sure. Do you have more information on what type of design the County would have implemented without ODOT’s influence re: the Hwy 43 interchange? I just know that ODOT’s required changes were expensive and assumed that they were motor vehicle-oriented but don’t know for sure.

Guest

davemess

I don’t know.
I don’t know that this new design is that much different than the one it’s replacing though (regarding car interchanges).

Subscriber

Hm. I did a little research on Google Maps’ old photos and it looks like there used to be four lanes total, two each way (one through-only lane, one turn lane) although the setup was kind of wacky. The new interchange looks way larger to me – eight lanes total, four lanes in each direction (two through-only lanes, one through / turn lane, and one turn-only). I do know that the project involved blasting into the hillside so the footprint of the interchange is indeed significantly larger than what was there previously.

Subscriber

http://www.sellwoodbridge.org/?p=project-area

Thanks for the electronic ground truthing, Alex.
Kind of reminds me of the CRC it-is-not-a-bridge-project-but-a-highway-expansion-project

Guest

davemess

Yeah, it’s tough to tell from that diagram above if there are two lanes going under the intersection in both directions or just one and some kid of a shoulder.

These picture make it look like only four lanes total on the new bridge (with only one each way thru lanes). So unless things have changed it’s not going to be more lanes than it used to be (well there will be a lot more bike lanes 🙂

Subscriber

Oh good point, it looks like one of the areas I was interpreting as a through-only lane is in fact going to be a shoulder. Based on the rendering you linked to, it looks like there will be three lanes each way (through-only, through/turn, turn-only). Still an increase from two but not as drastic.

Guest

davemess

I see four lanes total (which is the same as previously). Are you reading some of the bike lanes as auto lanes?

Guest

nuovorecord

Well, Clackamas County car drivers may reap a big chunk of the benefits of this project, but at least they didn’t pay for it. :-/

Subscriber

Does that bike path in the photo connect to anything to the north? I know there’s a MUP around that area and I assume they would be connected.

Also, still confused why the county decided on two different bike facilities on the bridge. Why not leave the sidewalk for people walking and install raised bike lanes instead of paint? Once you remove the bike markings from the sidewalk, it can be narrowed a bit. Instead of 6.5 feet bike lane and 12 foot shared bike/walk sidewalk, why not an 8.5 foot raised cycle track and 10 foot sidewalk?

Guest

rick

The path helps to connect to the dead-end of the Willamette Shore Trolley where the trolley stops at the charter school that is near the old Spaghetti Factory. It helps to connect to SW Moody.

I think some people wanted to use the bridge’s bike lanes to be able to pull over for police cars.

Guest

Gary

Yes, it’s a replacement for the existing MUP (a bit laughable to call it that, as the stretch it replaces was about 4 feet wide with walls on both side at certain points). It connects to Willamette Park via a jaunt on Miles Pl., which then turns into the Greenway all the way to South Waterfront (excepting the well-known missing link).

I haven’t figured that out, either. I think it’s cool there is a “commuter” lane and a “tourist” lane (my words), but don’t understand why the former is at street grade. I’m a little bit scared it allows those 2 bike lanes to be converted into car lanes in the future, perhaps to accommodate the streetcar if that ever happens?

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davemess

Also they wanted to leave space for an emergency lane to be made. There is just more flexibility in the roadscape with the on street bike lanes.

Guest

davemess

It’s the best of both worlds. For all the people who complain about bike traffic on the Hawthorne bridge this should help a ton. Families and slower riders can stay on the sidewalk level, and faster riders can stay on the street level. The street level makes the connections easier (or at least I hope that to be true).
I think they’re recognizing that there are more cyclists than pedestrians on this bridge.

Subscriber

Spiffy

you can’t bike on the sidewalk if there’s a bike lane next to it… mandatory bike lane laws and whatnot…

Guest

davemess

It’s a bike facility on the sidewalk though.
I don’t think that law would apply here (though I’m not a lawyer, I have to imagine this has been looked at).

Guest

lop

Tell that to all the cyclists on SW Lincoln who think too much of their time to cross the street to use the bike lane and so little of the time of people walking around that they yell at them to dart out of the way to make room for bikes. Without regular enforcement you’ll have families and slow riders on the sidewalk, and there won’t be any enforcement.

Guest

Eric Leifsdad

You can ride on the sidewalk anywhere it isn’t expressly prohibited (ORS 814.410 (2) — it may even have to be written, rather than just posted (wondering about the east side of Moody since Portland ordinance 16.70.320 doesn’t mention it.))

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Terry D-M

The sidewalk will have sharrows and be explicitly family friendly. The commuter lanes will be made of tinted green cement last I heard. It is level with the street not only for emergency pull over, but also for ease of passing.

Guest

davemess

The easy answer to your question is flexibility. Making three different levels of roadway doesn’t give any flexibility for emergency vehicles on the bridge (essentially allowing for a 3rd lane). It also doesn’t allow for easy passing of other cyclists. They also can always go back and change the lane structure if they want to (removed the sidewalk bike lane, or even protect the street level one).
And frankly I would feel more comfortable cycling with my kid on this sidewalk (which is separated from cyclists who want to go faster) than a single separated lane where a faster cyclist would have only a few feet to safely pass my kid. Sellwood is a big “family” neighborhood, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this factored into the choices of bike facilities.

Guest

rick

I wish the bike lanes on the bridge were protected ones. However, the new bridge is a great upgrade to the old status quo. I wonder what effect might take place for the nearby businesses once it is done?

Subscriber

http://www.sellwoodbridge.org/files/renderings/belvedere–bench-plan-view.jpg

“Better than before” is not the best metric of success. We’re getting an entirely new bridge; there’s no reason why world-class cycling infra should not be installed.

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davemess

I’m failing to see how this is not “world class”.

Subscriber

Spiffy

no separation of modes… not even close to world class… not even close to being done the right way…

Guest

davemess

So there is a raised bike “lane” on a share walk (like Hawthorne but wider), in addition to the street level lane.

I think having two facilities: one protected and one bike lane, going in each direction is “world class”. It’s exponentially better than any other bridge in the city.

Subscriber

You’re either sharing road surface with people driving cars or sharing sidewalk space with people walking. In either case, there is only paint separating you from the other mode. World-class would mean a grade-separated bike lane that is at a different level than both the car lane and sidewalk.

Guest

abomb

Adam, I dont know how long you’ve been riding across the Sellwood bridge, but I’ve been going across that sketchy narrow light poles in your way sidewalk for the last 28 years and the new bridge is going to be so much better. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is. ***sentence deleted by moderator – please refrain from insults and name-calling — Jonathan*** Lets celebrate that this new bridge has given bikes and pedestrians a much safer and more enjoyable way to cross the river for us folks on the south end of town.

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davemess

No joke. This is probably going to be the best piece of cycling infrastructure in the city, (I mean we’re talking 6 lanes on this bridge for non-car travel versus 2 for cars!) and is replacing a woefully inadequate one.

Sometimes I just have to laugh at this site.

Subscriber

“Sometimes I just have to laugh at this site.”
or, more specifically, at the occasional entitled whopper comment. I know this is not something Jonathan would do, but we could have a weekly feature, sort of the inverse of comment of the week.

Guest

davemess

Does that mean they would have to send bikeportland $5?

Subscriber

Good one!

Guest

Scott H

No infrastructure will ever live up to the standards of us bikeportland commenters.

Subscriber

No infrastructure will ever live up to the standards of [some of] us bikeportland commenters.

Subscriber

I’m not saying that the facility won’t be great or won’t be significantly better than before. My point was that we’re spending millions building a brand new bridge from scratch. There is no reason why we can’t get the best possible cycling facilities available.

We can’t just constantly strive for “better than before”. We need to do things right the first time.

Guest

davemess

And your definition of “right” is different than others. Personally I would find a single “protected” lane (as you described it) as a worse option that what will be on this bridge. This option provides for cyclists of different speeds to better coexist. This isn’t a bridge ONLY for cyclists, they have other constraints to consider as well.

Subscriber

soren

The bridge has a protected bike route on the raised path (similar to the tilikum).

Subscriber

Not really. It’s a shared sidewalk, like the Hawthorne Bridge (although wider).

Guest

davemess

and without most of the fast bike traffic.

Guest

maks

i ride this every day. i actually like it when i ride along that conencts to the sidewalk. the brief detour that led down and up that ramp was horrible. I was happy to see they re-opened up the section again to avoid that steep ramp.

I wonder how much better it’ll be once the bike path connects to Willamette Plaza corridor (what is that side called anyway? eg: eastbank esplanade). and if it’ll be extra time-consuming or not. I ride mostly on the sidewalk to the end of Willamette Park Plaza because i’m tired of the constant swervy pathways. couldn’t it be just a straight way?

random: it’s actually a 5 minutes shorter of a ride when on the sidewalk than on the river pathway to OHSU Tram.

Guest

The pathway between the bridge and the South Waterfront could use a lot of improvement. It’s really twisty with lots of blind curves, so you can’t go too fast. It also has a ton of raised bumps, from tree roots I guess. It would be awesome if those at least could get ground down. In my dreams, they would put in a path that follows the trolley right of way. Then it would be as awesome as the Springwater.

Guest

Granpa

It is slow and bumpy, but looking east it is one of the prettiest rides in the area.

Guest

lop

>the brief detour that led down and up that ramp was horrible

I liked that better actually. The bridge sidewalk is uncomfortable to ride on, a short break from riding right next to traffic is nice to have after it, even if it does take a few extra seconds.

Guest

Tad

I cross the Sellwood Bridge by bike around 4x/week, but my destination is Lake Oswego. The Sellwood bike lanes will be great once they’re in place, but it won’t make it any more real that I’ll be able to take my kids into Portland by bike, until the OR-43 bike corridor is addressed – however it gets addressed. Right now, my only option is up through the Cemetery (~450′ climb) and then all the way back down through Tryon Creek, seeing as doing the 43 by bike is just completely unsafe.

Desperately waiting for that to get sorted – whether the trolly tracks are used as a right-of-way, or whether the mixed-use bridge near the rail bridge end up as the option.

Guest

Buzz

Why don’t they let cyclists use the street for that detour instead of the sidewalk??? Personally, I’d move that detour sign and use the curb ramp to enter the street at the top of the hill.

Guest

That’s actually what happened a few days after this was set up 🙂

Guest

gl.

Seriously? Because after I ran across this detour I refused to take that bridge again. So if the detour isn’t there anymore, I would consider it again. I can’t wait until it connects to the Greenway again. The Macadam sidewalk is so terrible.

Guest

Gary

The switchback baffles me a bit. It seems excessive–not all that much of a elevation delta. It’s quite an extended route to get from the bridge down to the path. Don’t get me wrong, it’s leaps and bunds beyond what was there before, but I wonder what pushed that particular design versus more of a straight shot.

Subscriber

Probably ADA. I believe that the grade must be less than or equal to 5%.

Guest

The grade is definitely no more than what is on the Tillikum

Guest

Eric Leifsdad

Because it’s a sidewalk, not a bikeway. Maybe one day we’ll build a bikeway somewhere.

Guest

Gary B

I understand that. What I’m getting at: Only the middle leg of the 3-legged switchback has any grade at all. That is the 5% part. Then you have the stretches along 43 and on the MUP that are essentially flat. A straight shot from MUP up to the bridge could easily make that grade. I’m sure it’s just due to space limitations at the site, not a big deal, just a minor annoyance.

Guest

gl.

I agree: it doubles the distance to the bridge unnecessarily.

Guest

davemess

My guess is that the path has to allow for maintenance vehicle access along the river.

Subscriber

And that switchback clearly shows that engineers in this city/county don’t understand how bikes work. Most people can’t make that sharp of a turn on a bike without nearly coming to a complete stop.

Guest

I don’t know about the eventual switchback at the top, but the path for the one on the bottom is actually pretty wide. If you take the right line, you can easily hold 15mph through the turn.

Subscriber