“We are formulating a strong core of people who are in leadership positions in the bicycle community… to discuss how our concerns can be mitigated without simply closing the cemetery to bicycle traffic.”
— David Noble, Executive Director of River View Cemetery
David Noble, the executive director of River View Cemetery in Southwest Portland, has planned a meeting with representatives from the City of Portland Bureau of Transportation and the Bicycle Transportation Alliance next week. The meeting will revolve around how to manage bicycle traffic through cemetery grounds.
The cemetery — which is on private property that provides a popular alternate route for bike traffic — is concerned with unsafe riding and disrespectful behavior by some riders. The issue has been simmering for years, but came to a head last week after we reported on the installation of three sets of new speed bumps.
have slowed down traffic, but
they’ve also caused serious injuries.
(Photo: Katelyn Hale)
The bumps worked. But some people found them to be way too harsh. Since running the story, we’ve heard of several more very serious crashes caused by the sharp, steep bumps that have been installed without accompanying signage or adequate warning. One reader shared the story of well-known local riding veteran of 50 years, Del Scharffenberg, who broke his collarbone and two bones in his shoulder blade after hitting the bumps last week.
Contacted via email, David Noble said our story, along with subsequent coverage on KATU-TV, has resulted in “dozens” of emails, phone calls and visits to his office (along with nearly 300 comments online).
Noble says those inquiries have been “overwhelmingly supportive of River View’s attempts to slow down downhill bicycle traffic, while still preserving the privilege for bicycles to pass through the cemetery.” He has also talked with Katelyn Hale (the person who’s injuries we featured in our story) and other riders who’ve had “negative encounters” with the speed bumps.
over 280,000 miles in the saddle —
broke three bones in a crash on the
speed bumps.
(Photo: Nate Armbrust)
As a result, Noble is organizing a committee to look into the issue:
“We are formulating a strong core of people who are in leadership positions in the bicycle community who are willing to participate on a committee that would meet with myself and other representatives from River View to discuss how our concerns can be mitigated without simply closing the cemetery to bicycle traffic.”
Michelle Poyourow, an advocate with the BTA, has discussed the issue with Noble and plans to meet with him (and PBOT’s bike coordinator Roger Geller) next week. Asked about the issue, Poyourow replied,
“My concern is not limited to any danger posed by the bumps, though I am quite concerned about that, but about the long-term sustainability of this very valuable bike route. If the cemetery staff, visitors and board members are at the end of their ropes with the volume of bike traffic passing through their property, I’d like to see if the City or the BTA can help make it manageable for them (and safe for people biking or walking through) so that it can continue being open long into the future.”
We’ll keep you posted on any further developments.
Does he have surveillance cameras onsite that might catch the people being disrespectful? Identifying them is probably a long shot. Burns me when money and time have to be spent because of a hopefully small handful of jerks.
Good luck Mr. Noble.
are people simply trying to avoid macadam (four lanes, no shoulder, posted 35) or taylors ferry (three lanes, no shoulder, posted 40), or is this just a recreational thing? if bike accessibility on the two roads is the issue, seems to me BTA and PBoT could be talking about calming on those roads. no reason a private cemetery should have to put up with this.
are,
this is far from “just a recreational thing”. the route is a vital link for bikes in that area.
The BTA and PBOT are very lucky that River View is such a cool organization that is willing to keep the route open.. .. because doing anything of consequence on Macadam and/or Taylor’s Ferry would be tough politically and financially.
A part of me agrees with you and would love to see PBOT/BTA have to act to make those public streets safe for bikes… but I think working with River View is the best first option ;-).
Jonathan,
“..we’ve heard of several more very serious crashes caused by the sharp, steep bumps that have been installed without accompanying signage or adequate warning..”
‘Sharp, steep bumps’? Have you even ridden these? Way to stay objective Mr Journalist!
‘Adequate warning’? They are painted bright yellow and have 3 huge bright yellow stripes preceding them spanning the entire roadway. Why dontcha tell us what you reaaaaally think!
These bumps are only a problem if you are not paying attention and are traveling too fast for the conditions. I know, cause I have ridden them. You have framed this story with a biased agenda that will surely inflame more tensions. The first story was unhelpful and one sided, this one is even more so. Though at least you gave Mr Noble some space.
I hate to say it, but your site is increasingly fanning tensions in a similar manner to the Car vs. Bike war coverage we receive elsewhere. This style of coverage is neither informative, nor inspiring.
Would it be so hard to simply cover this story without inserting so much slanted opinion and conjecture? Where are some interviews with the hundreds of cyclists navigating these bumps without issue every day?
WTF?
As an aside, I am so excited to see the BTA and Ms. Poyourow will soon be out with a harpist and a tea party. Should really help. A lot.
1.) The cemetery’s policies stipulate a 15MPH speed limit. From the comments on the earlier article, that is routinely ignored.
2.) Bike traffic in the region doesn’t stop when the gates are closed. There are other routes.
Based on that, as well as the threats of litigation, I think the best thing for Mr. Noble to do is to close his roads to bikes. They’re already closed to motorcycles, presumably because of the disruption they cause to what is intended to be a serene environment.
Jonathan,
Although Steve seems to have had way too much coffee, I agree with him in that the speed bumps are not that bad, are marked fairly visibly and should not be that hard for your average cyclist to navigate. I have been riding through River View on my way between SE PDX and Lake O at least once a week for years and this is an extremely valuable route in that part of town. Hwy 43 is a death ride and Taylors Ferry goes the wrong way. We all need to mind our descending speed, be respectful of the property, stay off the grass, ect. and send the cemetary staff Christmas cards every year thanking them for allowing us to ride through. It will be a sad day if access is taken away.
Thanks for the feedback steve.
No. I have not yet ridden the speed bumps.
However, I have the benefit of hearing about them from several people who have.
From sources and from photos I’ve seen, the bumps are more severe than what someone would usually encounter from a standard speed bump installed by PBOT.
It’s also a fact that there are no signs warning of the bumps. There are only pavement markings, which — given the fact that many experienced riders have crashed severely — makes me think that there is not adequate warning.
I appreciate your input.
re:buglas
– from what has been reported, the bumps are not safe at 15mph
– bike traffic does not stop through the graveyard after the gates are closed. They are very easy to circumvent (this would be easy to fix with some fencing)
What about closing the cemetery to downhill traffic? Taylor’s ferry is not so bad going downhill, and I’m sure cyclists puffing along at 5mph heading back up are not going to accidentally smash into anybody or anything.
“this is far from “just a recreational thing”. the route is a vital link for bikes in that area.” maus/bikeportland
One of the points that is likely to come out of the meeting Noble has planned, is the number non-cemetery related trips that are made by people on bikes through the cemetery each day. The route may be vital, but some people may be wondering that if this number is growing, how long Riverview will be able to serve as a commuter route and still be able to preserve the environment it believes its obliged to provide its patrons with.
Work probably needs to begin on finding and eventually building a better route to serve this vital need.
“No. I have not yet ridden the speed bumps.”
Maybe you should, especially before describing them.
“However, I have the benefit of hearing about them from several people who have.”
No, what you have is the detriment of not speaking to anyone but a handful of folks who have contacted you. You are essentially relaying the opinions and experiences of a minute fraction of the cyclists who frequent this path. Worse yet, you do not make that clear in the article and make no attempt to buffer or support their opinion/experience with that of other roadway users.
“It’s also a fact that there are no signs warning of the bumps. There are only pavement markings, which — given the fact that many experienced riders have crashed severely — makes me think that there is not adequate warning.”
So what if there are no signs? If people do not notice huge bright yellow markings on the roadway directly in front of them, why would they notice a sign off to the side? Why use provocative language to describe the lack of signage and in the next breath attempt to minimize the roadway markings as ineffective? Is that objective? Particularly when you have not even bothered to ride up there?
‘Many experienced riders’? Really? Many? How many? How many inexperienced, attentive riders have had no issue? Should not the experience of hundreds of other users temper the experiences of a few?
“I appreciate your input.”
I seriously doubt that! I do appreciate your candor. You have just made my point better than I ever could have. I hope that the large platform you have given to a handful of inattentive, unfortunate, or speeding cyclists does not contribute to the closure of this route.
steve,
i hear you. thanks for pointing out the shortcomings of my reporting in this article.
you make a good point about how people might be navigating the bumps without issue. However, remember that I think it’s correct to assume that if I get contact and/or hear from 10 people on an issue, that is actually representative of many more with similar feelings that I haven’t heard from.
that being said, first-hand experience of the situation would be ideal. unfortunately i have not had time to get to the cemetery and explore it myself.
thanks for the criticisms.
I can tell, just from the photo, that these would be much harder to negotiate than the average “traffic calming” bumps you see in portland streets, parking lots, etc.
they’re almost the shape and height of a standard curb or parking block– not something you want to unexpectedly hit at 5mph, much less 15mph. even a fat tired 29er would have trouble negotiating it at speed– think of how it would be to hit those with a skinny-tired road bike!
seems that if the cemetery had installed a more mildly-shaped bump in the first place, the accidents, committee and “controversy” could have been avoided. they just seem to have chosen a bad design.
@steve,
You need to stop trolling. Jonathan doesn’t need to ride every road in Oregon before he is justified to post an article.
He may not have not had a personal encounter with the speed bumps, but I have. In my opinion, they are incredibly severe. It would damage the rims on my road bike to hit them at the posted speed (best case scenario).
Also – these aren’t reckless cyclists who are getting hurt. Many of them, like Del Scharffenberg, are incredibly experienced individuals. When they crash, we should all take notice.
@Ian #8
Well said. After reading the earlier comment thread and considering the nature of some of the posts, I probably overreacted in my statement here. (Remove foot, etc.)
Your suggestion of a downhill closure sounds like something pretty good to have out on the table – constructive rather than combative. Again, well said.
Close the route to cyclists. It’s easy as that. It’s private property and so called bicycle user entitled is not an option.
Say you’re riding through the cemetery, a very wooded area. You come down the hill and there in front of you is a fallen tree. You attempt to stop but can’t.
Would you change how you ride that section of road in the future knowing it could contain unseen hazards?
Would you say that you weren’t riding for conditions?
If you come around a corner and can’t safely stop for any hazard in the road, car, pedestrian, fallen tree, or speed bump, you are going too fast for conditions.
The same goes for overriding your headlight at night. If you can’t stop in the distance that is illuminated then you are going too fast for conditions.
I get the feeling people like the fact that they can bomb the hill in the cemetery without having to deal with any measurable amount of traffic and as such are not riding in a safe manner.
The speed bumps were installed and painted yellow several days before the yellow warning strips were added. As I understand it, some of the accidents occurred before the stripes were added.
I ride the cemetery up hill, so the bumps were not horribly hazardous, but I can understand how they’d be perceived by downhill riders.
Del and others, get well soon!
As a volunteer for PBOT, I conducted the bike count at the top entrance to Riverview Cemetary (the intersection of SW Palatine Hill Road and Riverview Cemetary Road) from 4 – 6 pm on Thursday July 23, 2009. This was before any speed bumps were installed.
The number of cyclists who went down through the cemetary using this entrance was 28, and 38 came up & exited the cemetary during this 2 hour period.
Using PBOT’s formula (multiply by 5), this is approx. 330 bikes per day.
During my survey, I witnessed one young adult male riding a mt bike downhill off the pavement. My location as an observer outside the private property prevented me from assessing downhill bike speeds within the cemetary.
I hope the issues can be resolved and that the route can be kept open to bikes. Taylor’s Ferry Road is not bike friendly!
I rode the bumps yesterday, hyperaware of and careful of them. Yes they are very different from other bumps, but nothing too hairy. They seem appropriate to the task(cycle slowing instead of car slowing).
I must add that the 15 M.P.H. is a max. limit, not a mandatory speed. Common sense/sense of self-preservation warrants slowing down for these things.
or the city could use eminent domain to condemn the cemetary road and declare it a cycle path…
Roger Averbeck #18…thanks for the info on bike traffic counts. Interesting note too about the actions of the mt bike rider you observed. Many off-road bikes today…even some commuter bikes…have full suspension frames. I’ve never ridden one, so I wouldn’t know…how much effect can the speed bumps Riverveiw installed have in slowing down people that ride such bikes?
Jonathan is trolling this time. This was discussed ad nauseum the other day. I have ridden them, a little harsh but it is their property. I am sorry a few people have been injured but all the lawsuit talk etc., why does anybody think they have any right at all to even discuss this with the cemetery? You can ride up my driveway if I allow you too, if you complain about the conditions, ride somewhere else! There are other streets that just are not as convenient or pleasant as the cemetery, so either ride it slow enough to not injure yourself or choose another route. IS THIS THAT COMPLICATED!
Riding a MTB off-piste through the cemetery is pretty rude!
As someone with several relative buried at this cemetery, I am rather disturbed by the attitude displayed by some of the cyclists here.
It’s a CEMETERY, for cryin’ out loud! Have a little respect.
@old&slow
You really need to think about your example.
You invite me to ride up your driveway – but then you set a booby-trap and I get injured…
Of course that is not what happened here. The Riverview was doing what they thought was right and did not mean to hurt anyone. They just didn’t think out the design completely.
I commend Jonathan on this follow-up article showing how they are willing to work with the community to make thing right.
If I was in the market for a cemetery, they would now be at the top of my list 🙂
“…-but then you set a booby-trap and I get injured…” Gabriel #25
I read and re-read old&slow’s #22 comment. He mentioned ‘changes’. He didn’t say anything about ‘changes’ that would imply the intent and consequences that the word ‘booby-trap’ implies.
From what’s been reported on this issue, I’m inclined to agree with the following comments you made giving Riverview the benefit of the doubt concerning the speed bumps:
“The Riverview was doing what they thought was right and did not mean to hurt anyone. They just didn’t think out the design completely.” Gabriel
The comments from Noble that Maus published in the other thread on this issue suggest that Noble is a fairly intelligent, fair minded and conscientious guy, who probably realizes as most people are able to, that he is not immune from occasionally making a mistake or two. Working with the BTA and PBOT, a good resolution will likely come about.
In the original article, one of the reasons Mr. Noble lists as leading to his action of installing the bumps, was to create a safe environment to cemetary visitors, despite no known (to me) reports of injuries incurred by bicyclists travelling through. Unfortunately, the end result has been to create an unsafe environment, which has resulted in numerous injuries to bicyclists. If safety is really his concern, it would seem prudent to remove the bumps and search for an alternative.
Gabriel,
Do you work for Fox news?
Nice way to set up your own premise and distort what I wrote.
“set up a booby trap, of course that is not what happened”
Glenn Beck at his finest. I never implied anything like that, the only point of your post was to pat yourself on the back for how clever you are apparently.
It’s private property. And people are still so ungrateful. It’s a wonder they don’t just put up gates and lock you all out.
I say Debe and hardball should get together for a few drinks. They’d have a lot to talk about…
This is so ridiculous.
Uh ya. Poyourow, this is an access facility in a graveyard. Oh wait this is an unsupported assertion. As evidence then, I submit that the sign on the front of the place identifying it as cemetery is fairly strong evidence. Also too, the large number of engraved headstones present, for no other apparent reason, strongly supports my assertion that this is a graveyard, and in fact, not a, “…valuable bike route…”.
As such, why don’t you mind your own business? Who the hell do you people think you are?
Steve has made the point over and over. I’m gonna go him one further, in support of his position.
If these speed-bumps, marked or not, singed or not, seen or not, knock you off your bicycle, then you are simply not competent enough as a rider to warrant public concern of your plight. To do so, is to take measures that will unreasonably, and unfairly, impact the majority of riders who are competent enough. I think steve has lost track of the fact that Ms. Hale was injured while the bumps had no yellow-paint, or signs either one. But his underlying point is that if a person whose competence as a road-user can be questioned,and who is then injured on private property, that this is a non-starter.
I’ve personally been repeatedly called upon to sacrifice my riding-style, and access to Oregon highways for the greater good. Notice how now, with the tacit request to simply, “be kool”, on the table, the same part-timer bikers yelling at me for being self-centered on public property, are now having a conniption over their access to private property.
It would appear then that competent, experienced, and strong riders must sacrifice. While people who can’t navigate a small bump are supported by the so-called cycling community.
Noble mentions contacting, “Leadership within the cycling community.”, or some such. Really? I don’t remember voting for Bricker, or Poyourow, or any of these Church of Green clergy, as my representative of anything.
I can’t speak for steve, but I, for one, resent that any one would even answer this call, let alone possess the personal temerity to speak for me without my permission, or best interests at heart, either one. Maus, you not only support these people speaking for cyclists like steve and I, you chant the religious-mantra right along with them, and are making the same run at municipal recognition they are.
You ain’t got an office at city hall Maus. You ain’t getting one, and you might as well stop even considering it. If you simply must continue your efforts to chain my lifestyle, to your Church, don’t get all indignant when dedicated, veteran vehicular-cyclists, like steve and I, call you on it.
@ #31,
Inhale……Exhale……Inhale……Exhale……Inhale……Exhale……
Thanks for the great reporting Jonathan. Something good will come from all of this.
Were you beaten by your father as a child Vance?
This is not Riverviews problem to solve. They should sell a sliver of their undeveloped property to the South to the city and the city should put in a path that connects to the lower Lewis and Clark Parking lot.
I ride this route several times a week. I wish I could ride along Highway 43. I hope they rebuild the trolly tunnel and build a bike path along the side of a new light rail line.
Until then…
I took a new route through the cemetery yesterday. Starting from the top, take your immediete right. The route is wide-open and seldom used. There is a bit of unpaved road on this route, but I think it is much calmer than the more central-cemetery routes. Maybe the cemetery could designate this far southern route as a bike route? The route seems to be even shorter than going by the offices or grounds-keepers.
However in the long run, LO needs a MUP and/or light rail line to connect with Portland. The trolly line is there and ready for use. They are currently working on it extensively. Perhaps PBOT has something up their sleves?
We can only hope.
To those that oppose mass transit:
Traffic will only increase on Highway 43, slowing you and the other cars to a crawl. We need a sustainable option for all users.
Thanks
Dear God, what is wrong with that Vance guy?
There’s a number of good alternative routes to the south of Lewis and Clark College. There’s also some rad descents in between Riverview and Lewis and Clark. MTB or cross bike mandatory.
It would be a bummer to lose the cemetary route though.
Everyone, please refrain from making your comments personal — take the high road and stick to the issues. Thanks.
Re; the Maus twitter post on the front page; It’s nice that Riverview allows people to ride their bikes on its roads through its property, but the idea that the cemetery should give the city an easement to make the roads a “..real bikeway..” seems to be really pushing the welcome.
The other suggestion; restricting bike traffic through Riverview to uphill only as a strategy intended to minimize downhill mishaps over the speed bumps? That doesn’t seem fair to all the people on bikes that have no problem whatsoever negotiating the speed bumps in the downhill direction.
Elly Blue #39 – Unless of course you’d care to take sophomoric pot-shots at the dissenters, right? Scott H #34 left that comment prior to you posting yours. That means you had to have seen it. So, when you’re not just censoring me outright, you’re colluding with those who can’t put forth an argument, and simply engage in childish antics.
I fail to see how a double-standard is any better than outright censorship. I’m especially incensed by your, “Oh, no not you again.”, tone, as I live everyday of my life with the constant reminder I’m under the thumb of those who work tirelessly to ban me and my bicycle from Oregon highways.
You think it’s tiresome to see my comments, Ms. Blue, it’s tiresome having a bunch of part-timers dictating to me how I may engage in an activity I’ve been doing since before you were born.
Now, you have a tendency to take ANY criticism poorly. I’m arguing with you, and I’m employing personal judgment whilst doing so. If you take this personally, that is not my intent. But dawgonnit, if the shoe fits… We have a disagreement outside the scope of personal feelings, and I’d thank you for not holding that against me, as I’m inclined to reciprocate.
Vance, to clarify, my request was aimed at ALL commenters. Not just you. Thanks for your feedback — Elly
Life isn’t fair. Riverview is an exceptional organization. I have many relatives buried there and I have had several experiences interacting with the staff. That being said this is private property and access could be shut off at any time. The city needs to step up and solve this problem by providing legitimate alternatives. This is true across the West Hills, future projects need to incorporate uphill bike lanes on roads such as Germantown, Cornell and Thompson.
I agree with Vance’s (#31) first paragraph.
This cemetery is PRIVATE PROPERTY. As such, NO ONE should count on it as a bike route, viable or not.
What the BTA and PBOT should be doing in this case is exploring alternate routes for bikes that do not go through the cemetery.
Riding through the cemetery NOT a right. Stop treating it like it is.
Kt, Vance, and others,
From what I can tell, no one is saying riding through the cemetery is a right. Can you point out where that is said?
Thing is, Mr. Noble is committed to maintaining access. I think the BTA and PBOT would like to maintain access. Therefore, they are all going to sit down and talk about how best to do that.
Vance, no one has said you can’t be a part of those discussions. Have you contacted Mr. Noble and told him how you’d like to volunteer your time to be a part of the committee to deal with this issue?
please create a bike path along 43.
44 – No, because I do not just decide private property is open to me just because I don’t like my other options. I adapt. And I certainly don’t complain when I get hurt breaking the rules. Not that Ms. Hale did, she’s been one of THE most reasonable voices in the debate.
Your juvenile prodding is ridiculous. Of course I haven’t volunteered squat. What business is it of mine how Noble runs his property? Now, if he wants to ban bikes, I might volunteer to stand century at a gate maybe. But that’s sarcasm I’ll save for another time.
My comment stands. I quoted Poyourow calling this a bicycle route when it is anything but. My position is that this is private property, and a non-starter as such. What my presence on their little hysteria-party-list would accomplish is beyond me. If you are suggesting that if I have a problem with something, that I should engage and do something about it, well son, what the hell do ya think we’re doing here anyway? Having verbal boxing matches? Driving Elly into outpatient treatment? Providing you fodder for water-cooler witticisms?
Na, I’ll skip the committee thanks all the same, as for doing something you might consider following the link on my ID one of these days.
Oh, and thank you for not censoring me this time, and only ridiculing my activism. We’re making progress.
Thank you Jonathan for reporting on this and letting us all know that if we felt so moved we may have an opportunity to be on this committee.
Having said that, yes, this is private property and riding through there is not a right it is definintely a privelege. On the other hand, if I invite someone to my home and they fall down my back steps because I did not have a railing then I have some responsibility to their recovery and well being.
If on my property there is a danger and I invite people on to the property and it causes them injury I have a responsibility to them.
Is that not why business carry liability insurance on their buildings, in case someone hurts themselves?
Just because it is private property, the owners are not released from properly maintaining the property for safety of the guests that go to the property.
From the previous story it sounds as thought the bumps, paint and additional cautionary paint lines all went on to the roadway at different times. Some fo the accidents may have occured when they were not painted and/or before the warning paint lines went down on the pavement.
Regarding the idea of stopping downhill traffic… I used to commute to Marylhurst between LO and West Linn by bike. Hwy 43 is a nightmare either direction and I would not have commuted if I was not able to ride up through the cemetary. I was a new commuter and this was the safest option. Now I might be willing to find another route (I am a lot more comfortable around traffic) but at that time I would have thought it was too dangerous and bike commuting was not worth the risk.
I am thankful that the option of the Cemetary path exists! I am sorry that the action that Riverview has taken has caused injury to those bikers that were surprised by the bumps. I just wish the discussion with the bike community were opened before the bumps were installed. This is not a blame statement ~ merely a feeling, I understand that Mr. Noble felt as though that was the best choice.
We are here now and I am glad for the willingness to discuss options at this point.
Jonathan thank you again for writing about this story with or without having ridden the bumps yourself.
I’ve ridden down the cemetery several times since the bumps have been installed.
In my opinion there is no need for further signage. The bumps are well marked. I did not ride them before the yellow warning stripes were installed, but now, if you don’t see them, you are riding too fast.
I agree with the posts that say that if cyclist continue to be a problem for the cemetery, then the next move should be to ban cyclist from riding it. I’ll be one of those cyclist, but I will understand.
Jonathan, You need to see these bumps. I rode over them at 8 mph going uphill, (700 x 23 mm 110 psi tires) and was given quite a jolt, bouncing my wheel off the ground. I felt as if I had just ridden over a low curb. Maybe some that say they are not a problem are riding larger, softer tires. In addition, I found only two bumps on my way up, one at curve by entrance and one by office area, leaving lots of open road for those that still want to speed down. Painting them yellow does not warn of the severity of the bump you are about to encounter.
bobcycle, #49, then don’t ride thru the cemetery. This “debate” had gone on long enough. If you don’t like the bumps STAY OUT OF THE CEMETERY! Good lord, this is just about the stupidest discussion I have ever read. This not a route anybody HAS TO TAKE. Just take another route!