Enforcement action near Broadway Bridge
Posted by Jonathan Maus (Editor) on December 13th, 2006 at 7:46 am
This just in from BikePortland correspondent Carl Larson:
Portland Police Bureau motorcycle officers are currently conducting an enforcement sting on NE Broadway Blvd. as it approaches the east side of the Broadway bridge.
If you’re headed that way, consider this a friendly reminder to be on your best behavior.
If you were stopped and/or ticketed, please consider sharing your experiences so that others can learn from your transgressions.
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December 13th, 2006 08:39
I was on the #9 but I noticed about 5 motorcycle cops just before 8 o'clock, each had a bike pulled over and was issuing a ticket. All of the cyclists had lights and helmets; I couldn't tell what they were being ticket for . . .
I mentioned to my seatmate that I was glad I hadn't ridden today and he said he usually commutes by bike too. It was a nice moment where I asked, "Don't they have anything better to do"? He said, "It almost makes you afraid to ride."
December 13th, 2006 09:02
A great big THANK YOU to the person who took time out of their day to stand up N Vancouver Ave and yell at each passing bike that there was an action up ahead - it made be extra certain to signal every turn, and especially to come to a rock-solid complete stop before entering the bike lane on Broadway. It seemed like the tickets were for "rolling stops" at that intersection, which is a very frequent occurrence in my experience. Unfortunately, it appears that the people getting caught were ones riding responsibly, though perhaps not following the "letter" of the law. It seems like anytime there is a speed trap for drivers, they let the minor speeders go and focus on the people driving egregiously - I wish they would do the same thing for bikers: instill some awareness and fear (just by being present) in basically safe riders who act overly efficiently, and target the ticketing to riders who act agressively and unsafe, of whom there are plenty.
And to that lone biker who chose to warn of the upcoming trap - you saved me directly, and I will remember that the next time I have the chance to save another biker from a similar fate.
December 13th, 2006 09:05
Kudos to the fellow who was headed north on Flint who gave us south-bound folks a headsup of the sting.
December 13th, 2006 09:08
Yeah there were two helpful bikers at the corner warning us about the cops. Thank you very much!
As much as getting a ticket sucks, that's a dangerous spot to just run through. We should all at least slow down and take the situation in before joining the traffic on Broadway.
skinny
December 13th, 2006 09:30
I saw one woman being ticketed in the bike lane as I rode towards the bridge.
They must be ticketing for running the stop sign at Flint & Broadway or for being out of the bike lane where you have to move to the left into the car lane if you want to head over the bridge.
I hope it's not for that because drivers and bikers have it all worked out. They let us over so they can get over to the right because they have to turn right at the light.
I don't believe in stopping at all stop signs, but I think Flint is an important one to stop at. It's dangerous for bikers coming down the hill and it's inconsiderate to drivers who have been waiting a long time to cross Broadway half a block down.
December 13th, 2006 09:34
I was early enough not to see anything (a little before 7:30).
But I am curious...what is the "sting" for? I ride that route pretty much every morning and it seems like almost all cyclists are pretty observant of the traffic lights etc... Is this considered a problem site OR is it that PPB truly has nothing better to do?
I hope it does not have to do w/ staying in the bike lane. The bike lane shifts to the middle of the roadway and I know that I take the lane when there is a gap in traffic, not when the painted lines tell me to.
December 13th, 2006 10:09
If you don't think this is the best use of police resources, contact the Mayor's office.
Mayor's Contact info:
823-4120
1221 SW 4th Ave, Suite 340, Portland, OR 97204
mayorpotter@ci.portland.or.us
December 13th, 2006 10:23
I ride that route everyday as well (taking train while suffering from a cold), and take the lane as soon as possible as well. Bah! Why do I have a funny feeling that it is, indeed, just that?
December 13th, 2006 10:25
I ride this route every day and this was a repeat of a sting action the police did a couple of months ago. I rode through about 8:20 and saw bicyclists pulled over both in front of the school on N Flint St. and also along Broadway. I believe they are enforcing a couple of things -- the 20 mph school zone on Flint and the stop sign at Flint and Broadway. I have some sympathy for people who speed on their bikes in the school zone because it is downhill and easy to do, and also I see cars speed there all the time and I have yet to see any pulled over. But there is no excuse for blowing that stop sign. Not only is the traffic coming down Broadway often fast and busy, but often there are large trucks (such as the large Water Bureau service trucks) waiting at the adjacent intersection at N Wheeler Ave., and I have heard of near misses because a cyclist ignored the stop sign and the truck driver wasn't expecting a cyclist to come around the corner off Flint and not stop. (Not only that, but it doesn't help bicyclist/driver relations.)
December 13th, 2006 10:28
I got tagged-one cop followed me from Vancouver & Russell and pulled me over for running the stopsign at Flint. I admit fault for that-I'm not at my best in the morning and I was in a rush- but TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY TWO DOLLARS is INSANE for that "crime". Unfair and exorbitant. I work for lawyers and they will advise me on what to say at the hearing, but it seems to me that the fine for runnning a right hand turn stopsign should be something more along the lines of $30. Any thoughts?
December 13th, 2006 10:37
I was cited at approximately 8:30 this morning for riding my fixed gear to work with no hand brake. Bill Balzer, the officer who stopped me, asked why I did not have a brake on my bike and we proceeded to have a 15 minute debate regarding statute 815.280. He was not rude or aggressive in any way but simply recited the argument commonly used by officers as of late that my bike did not comply with the law because it did not have a break, simply a gear that I am able to stop with. I expressed frustration that I was being ticketed for this, when I was, and always do, obey all traffic laws and always make an effort to be the most considerate and conscious bike commuter I can be. Despite saying this, and despite the fact that I feel completely comfortable on my bike and confident in my ability to ride with the same level of safety and effectiveness as any one else on the road, I was still ticketed. I also asked officer Balzer if they were specifically ticketing cyclists, and he said that they were stopping motor vehicles as well, although at the time I was pulled over there were about 4 other bikers being ticketed and no cars. hmmm. I will be going to court in January to argue against this. Im upset by 1)the overly subjective and ambiguous nature of ORS 815.280 and 2)the overly paternalistic nature of the law. I understand that for the most part, officers are trying to keep everyone safe (although today I think theyre just trying to reach their quota), but this seems along the lines of helmet laws. Should you wear a helmet? Of course(I do). However, are you required to? No. The fact that I was given a $97 ticket for solely this reason is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion. My apologies for this being more ranting than sharing my experience.
December 13th, 2006 10:40
Good! I see so many people on bikes blowing through the lights going westbound before the bridge and also going through the bike signal on the west side dropping down Broadway. On the west side especially I think a lot of riders do not pay attention of know about the bike signal, and a lot of drivers do not realize that the right turn signal is red. I have seen some very close calls at this intersection throughout my past several years of commuting.
I'd rather see riders being stopped by the police than picked up by an ambulance. Why is it so hard to stop at a traffic light on a main road?
December 13th, 2006 11:02
We need to contact our state representatives-I wrote Tom Potter's office and was told that the state sets the fines.
December 13th, 2006 11:12
The area from Flint to the Broadway Bridge does not provide a very elegant (read legal and safe)approach to the Bridge. It seems that the money to pay for the sting would be better spent making simple bicycle improvements that would a facilitate safe and legal approach to the bridge.
What area's next for a sting - the eastside approach to the Steel Bridge from Lloyd Center? Lots of income potential there too. It's another awkward approach for cyclists and though it's improved the last couple of years it is still difficult to stay legal and negotiate it in an efficient way.
December 13th, 2006 11:24
I just called potter's office - they "know nothing (about the sting)"
December 13th, 2006 11:29
If the Mayor's office is not up to speed, make the issue general: to best improve traffic safety, scarce police resources should not be focused on targeting cyclists.
December 13th, 2006 11:33
Thanks Evan I sent my email off to the Mayor's office. My suggestion was the funding for an enforcement that targets a small minority be scrapped altogether.
December 13th, 2006 11:42
big thanks to the gent on the goldish chopper/tall bike on flint shouting out warnings.
an email has been sent to the mayor's office.
December 13th, 2006 11:44
I was a victim at that intersection a few months ago. The ticket was $242 for not stopping at the stop sign. I have seen police motorcycles staking out that intersection several times since then. They hide and just pick off cyclists. It pisses me off to no end. I have thought of carrying sideway chalk so on days like today I can write a warning on the street.
December 13th, 2006 11:46
i know nofing!
December 13th, 2006 11:51
sting operations that target cyclists is a step in the wrong direction in Portland's goal for platinum distinction as a bike friendly city.
December 13th, 2006 11:58
do I have to start taking the st johns bridge to avoid checkpoints into downtown? It seems that taking broadway and hawthorne on the wrong day could cost hundreds of dollars.
December 13th, 2006 12:00
If you are interested in making a positive change to the stop sign laws please send me an email and I'll send you some information about work that is already in progress.
bjorn
declangalt at hotmail dawt com
December 13th, 2006 12:09
And on the day the kind folks of Shift were handing out breakfast on the bridges! Its unfortunate to have such a damper put on a positive event.
December 13th, 2006 12:25
Regarding the bicycle traffic signal at the west-end of Broadway Bridge...when I first started commuting across the Bridge 2years ago - I didn't realize there was a signal there for cyclists. I think I blew through that intersection a few times before realizing why all the cyclists were stopping!
I mean, is it the ONLY traffic signal for cyclists in Portland ?
A sign (painted or posted) saying "BICYCLE SIGNAL AHEAD" on the bridge 500-ft before the signal would be a big help.
December 13th, 2006 12:32
J-On-Bike:
there is one other that I know of. it's on the east end of the steel bridge on the south side of the crossing.
that one is really obvious though.
December 13th, 2006 12:34
Neither rain nor police sting nor gloom of morning shall stay these Shifters from their appointed rounds.
Although the ticket-action was a bummer for many folks' morning commute, we at Breakfast on the Bridges hope to have brightened a biker's day. Thanks to BonB Carl for bringing supplies to the B'way Bridge, then heading back to alert cyclists to the sting. Thanks to BonB'ers Carie and Cody for being there early, with donuts and cookies. And thanks to Red Bat Carye for documenting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/redbat/321440307/
December 13th, 2006 12:44
This is just a crazy idea but ... would anyone be interested in a system that text messages you the next time a 'police sting' happen? I figure that we could use it for other bike fun mass communication too, like a reminder of MMR's and where they are at ...
I figure it could be a web interface that you can put your cell phone number in and specify the times that you want warningsreminders.
I have a month off from school and nothing else better to learn about SMS and see what I can code up.
jasun
December 13th, 2006 12:47
Reading some of these comments, I could almost believe that fellow cyclists feel *entitled* not to stop at stop signs--as if the law didn't apply to them.
Hmmm--if cops see us as easy pickins, maybe that's why.
You want to screw up a perfectly good sting? Then stop, all the time--unless you're on a quiet 'burb street at noon or something. The cops will waste their morning writing no tickets, and their quotas will go unfilled. Then they'll have to find something else to do.
December 13th, 2006 12:53
[...] Lieutenant Mark Kruger, 2nd in command at the Police Bureau’s Traffic Division had this to say about this morning’s enforcement action at Broadway and Flint: “Today we worked a mission at Broadway and Flint because we have a complaint from the Water Bureau of bicyclists running the stop sign there and creating a hazard. PDOT informs us that this intersection is the third highest bike crash intersection in the city. The public can expect more enforcement of the area to come.” [...]
December 13th, 2006 13:00
well, if we are such friends with the law, maybe they can tell us when their next sting is, and where, you know - so we can all learn to follow the rules a little better.
I prefer education to punishment - of course, the city seems very slow on the uptake. elly told me that the cops also do "stings against motorists, daily". can anyone corroborate this?
December 13th, 2006 13:02
adam, are you saying you need to be educated to NOT run a stop sign?
December 13th, 2006 13:03
adam,
I went on a ride-along a few months back and can attest that its standard operating procedure at the Traffic Division to do speed stings on motorists.
Officer Hoesly and I sat at the Zoo onramp on the 26 and popped a bunch of freeway speeders.
December 13th, 2006 13:06
I'm conflicted by this operation. On the one hand, I'd like to see us (cyclists) as a whole be better at obeying the law. However, as in all things human, judgement must apply.
I ride through this intersection often. When I come to the corner of Flint and Broadway, I usually slow way down, and give way to traffic on my left. But, the question that comes to mind is; What is the definition of a stop? If it's putting your feet down, them I'm guilty. If slowing ot perhaps 1 MPH is correct, them I'm in compliance.
Also, I will start to get over to the bike lane when there's a break in traffic. This could be before the signal before the signal at the entrance to the bridge. Is this wrong? Perhaps this part of the roadway needs to be redesigned.
December 13th, 2006 13:08
In the spirit of the modified bike lane people:
http://bikeportland.org/2005/09/29/meet-portlands-bike-lane-people/
Perhaps there could be pavement-markers for cyclists as they approach intersections-of-interest.
Intersections could be chosen with input from accident statistics as well as "sting" statistics...
December 13th, 2006 13:22
Thank you, WOBG (post #29) for pointing out the obvious solution to those who feel "victimized" by the enforcement of traffic laws. I agree that $242 is a hefty fine, but the easiest way to avoid it is to obey the traffic signal. And if you are concerned that there is ambiguity about when a bike is "stopped" for purposes of the law, work with the BTA and the legislature to clear up that ambiguity. Until then, just do what everyone would have to agree is a full stop - behind the white line, with a foot down. Yeah, it spoils momentum and can be a real pain sometimes, but it beats giving the State $242 that would be better spent on dinner, a new bell, helmet and bike lights :-)
December 13th, 2006 13:37
Two things:
a) I have never understood why cyclists have to put their foot on the ground in order to be stopped but motorists don't.
b) I often find that when there are areas where cyclists (insert any other minority group whom the designers/lawmakers did not have in mind when they designed the area or made the laws) often break the laws it is because the area needs to be redesigned and/or the law needs to be changed.
There is so much more I could say but I will stop now.
December 13th, 2006 13:42
Just to clarify. Cyclists do not have to put their foot down at a stop.
Forward motion of the wheel must cease...which means trackstands are permitted.
See this post for more information.
December 13th, 2006 13:49
I agree that a rider does not have to put his/her foot down to come to a full stop - however, that does not seem to be the position of at least sme traffic officers and, therefore, is one of the major ambiguities in enforcement. There is some argument that a track stand (esp. an extended one at a red light) occasionally will result in a slight forward motion of the bike (to avoid a larger downward motion of the rider) and, consequently, some police officers will cite track-standing cyclists for that reason. That is the only reason I suggested that by putting your foot down you prevent being cited by a non-understanding (non-trackstanding?) officer.
December 13th, 2006 13:50
Thank you Cecil, WOBG, Paul, etc.
Disempower the law by obeying the law.
Then if after doing this you're still having delusions about being Victimized by the Man, get some therapy or go rent Smokey and the Bandit (if you've still got a VCR) and blow off some steam in front of the tele ;-)
December 13th, 2006 14:03
[...] A local cyclist, concerned with what she feels is too much “negative police attention on cyclists,” emailed the Mayor’s office after this morning’s enforcement action and has heard a detailed response from one of his staffers: [...]
December 13th, 2006 14:03
my track stands often roll back, not forward... but i also ride a track bike.
I don't remember ever coming to a full stop at this intersection when I used it everyday. i'd slow down and pull into the bike lane.
sucks. it'd be nice to know aobut these, then get like 50 people come blowing through at one time.
good times.
December 13th, 2006 14:10
here is the response I got from the mayor's office:
Dear Mr. Zakreski:
Thank you for emailing about the enforcement action that recently took place in NE Portland at Broadway and Flint. Mayor Potter has asked me to respond on his behalf.
As you know, bicyclists as well as motorists must come to a complete stop before a stop sign. The enforcement action you refer to was carried out in response to concerns expressed by the local community that many bicyclists moved through the intersection without stopping. The Portland Office of Transportation (PDOT) assessed that the intersection is the third highest bicycle crash intersection in the City. I would like to note that during an enforcement action, no specific mode of transportation is targeted over another - the attending officers do not ignore motorists breaking the law. During this enforcement action, sixteen bicyclists were cited along with thirteen motorists.
We support Traffic's use of dedicated enforcement actions, including their use at intersections frequented by bicycle traffic. Last month, 1887 moving violation citations were issued by the Police Bureau. Twenty-three were issued to bicyclists - the rest were issued to motorists. Traffic will continue to target traffic violations that endanger the lives and well being of all those who use the road, and that will include bicyclists.
One of Traffic's missions is to issue citations for moving violations that contribute to most traffic collisions. Reviewing collision incidents from the past eleven years which involved a bicyclist fatality, the bicyclist was at fault in 58 percent of the cases. Of those, 30 percent occurred because a bicyclist ignored a stop sign. During enforcement actions, we often find that many of the bicyclists stopped inform police officers that they typically do not stop at stop signs. Again, this is a major safety issue and the law is clear.
Road safety is very important to Mayor Potter, and I encourage you to spread the word about everyone's responsibility to share the road conscientiously and safely. I hope you will take part in the Portland Office of Transportation's (PDOT) "I Share the Road" campaign. You can participate and obtain free stickers for your car or bicycle from www.isharetheroad.com
Sincerely,
Jeremy Van Keuren, Public Advocate
Office of Mayor Tom Potter
Portland, Oregon
503-823-4125
jvankeuren@ci.portland.or.us
December 13th, 2006 14:15
Not to "disempower the law by obeying the law," a sentiment that I take in the solecistic sense that it was offered, but, rather, to work to change those laws you think are wrong and, if you choose to violate them in the interim, don't gripe about being busted - esp. if you are violating them for the purpose of making a point about how wrong those laws are. The power of civil disobedience lies in the actor's willingness to go to jail or pay a fine for standing up against the system to force change. Thoreau, Gandhi, MLK Jr., the brothers Berrigan, Nelson Mandela, etc. all understood that their actions could cost them liberty and money, and were willing to put their liberty and money on the line to bring about change. So, yes, I am saying that if you don't like the law, work to change it. If you don't want to pay $242, obey the law until it is changed. If you think the only way to change the law is to violate it, then do so, but be willing to pay the consequences.
December 13th, 2006 14:24
That turn from Westbound Broadway onto North Wheeler is nasty, but it's several blocks from the Flint and Broadway intersection, and the Water Bureau has other, safer options to access their equipment yard; all the Water Bureau trucks need to do is go a bit further down Broadway, turn right onto Interstate and right again at either N Hancock or N Tillamook. The Water Bureau would be smart to request that its drivers start using these other options and stop using N Wheeler.
December 13th, 2006 14:25
"Officer Hoesly and I sat at the Zoo onramp on the 26 and popped a bunch of freeway speeders."
I don't see how this makes it any safer for cyclists on the local city streets.
December 13th, 2006 14:31
I can verify Jonathan's ride along afew months back, as they "pulled" me over during it, but just to mess with my brain.
The officer was actually very nice, and quite funny.
On another note, I am astounded that you people are so amazed by this enforcement action, and by the steepness of the fines.
The "Barnum and Balzer" circus has not left town, and obviously had the big top still up today at Flint and Broadway.
Running a stop sign.
Go figure. That is the only ticket I have ever gotten on a bike,which was last December, when I was trying to catch a car that had run me off the road, while working.
Instead I got a nice fat $242 ticket, and the driver drove away.
But, in defense of the officer, I did run the red light, after looking both ways. Costs most of a paycheck to pay the ticket, but is still better than being hit by the car right before the ticket.
I would think that the fine for running a cyclist off the road would be much greater for the driver that got away.
Wait, they would never fine the driver, because there was no injury. That is the Portland Police policy toward bicycle- motor vehicle wrecks.
This being the irony, since we are considered motor vehicles as bicycles, bound by ordinance. If two "cars" have an acident, calling the police is required, and a citation for at least one of them is inevitable.
But, the reality is this:
I ran a stop sign, even after thoroughly looking. I was guilty. No matter what.
I have to face the fact, and pay the fine.
And so do all of you, if you committed the atrocity that you are accused of.
Until the law is changed, it is the law.
There is no loophole, as there is in the fixed gear scenario. This should be easily winnable, if you have the technology.
Ask me, I will tell you about it...
December 13th, 2006 15:16
Burr,
If you are asking that the Water Bureau truck drivers not use a street because it is not safe, couldn't one also argue that bicyclists not use this intersection because it is not safe for them, either?
Regardless of how safe or unsafe this intersection is, what makes this intersection more unsafe for bicyclists and drivers alike is failure to obey the stop sign. A driver waiting at the stop sign at N Wheeler St. is primarily looking left (to the east) for traffic coming down Broadway, and also coming off N. Flint St., and when someone blows the stop sign at Flint and whizzes on to Broadway and then approaches Wheeler, that is an unpredictable event that could lead to a collision.
I should also add that I used to work at the Water Bureau, and I know some of the drivers of those trucks, and I have even been in the same traffic safety classes with some of them. They get really good training. Safety is of utmost importance to Water Bureau employees. They follow the traffic laws, and so should those of us on two wheels.
December 13th, 2006 15:25
To Dabby or anyone else,
Does anyone know a shop in Portland where one can pick up a keirin syle brake that clamps onto an undrilled fork? I was in Bike Central a while ago looking for one but to no avail. I was one of the three violators of 'bike equipment requirements' today and as much as Id like to go to court and argue my case, my (lack of) bank account funds wont necessarily be willing to pay the fine....
December 13th, 2006 15:27
Paul,
They may have "good training", but I've been completely cut off by them many times when I'm coming from the east on broadway and them turning onto wheeler.
December 13th, 2006 15:40
To Alan Bluehole (comment number one): the account of your morning bus conversation made me sad. Were you glad you didn't ride to work because you were afraid of the cops or you were afraid of being forced to behave like a responsible road-sharer? Likewise, which scenario is your friend scared of? It's probably better for all of us if the both of you stick to riding the bus.
Bring on the enforcement actions, I have nothing to hide.
December 13th, 2006 15:42
The larger Water Bureau maintenance vehicles have very poor sight lines for determining if a bicyclist is approaching from their rear on the right at Broadway and N Wheeler. No amount of driver training can compensate for these inadequate sight lines. The Water Bureau drivers have other, safer options for accessing their yard and they should use them. Until they do so, no amount of enforcement against bicyclists at the N Flint intersection will eliminate the safety hazard at Broadway and N Wheeler. You should also be aware that not all of the westbound bicyclists arrive at this location by way of N Flint, many are coming down the bike lane on Broadway, and they approach the N Wheeler interchange rather fast, since Broadway has a downhill grade at this location.
December 13th, 2006 16:20
"If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you."
If you've been cut off by a Water Bureau truck driver, by all means I would suggest you make a call to that agency and complain, rather than just let it go. Be sure and note the vehicle number. It's on the door under the "The City That Works" logo.
Again, any responsible driver at that intersection is looking east for car and bike traffic coming down Broadway, as well as any traffic stopped at the Flint stop sign. Being unpredictable by blowing the stop sign is just asking for trouble.
December 13th, 2006 16:35
Once again, obeying the stop sign at N Flint - or not - has nothing whatsoever to do with safety issues at Broadway and N Wheeler.
December 13th, 2006 17:40
I know of no such brake mad to go n a non drilled fork.
And, if there was, it would be clamp on, and would not be safe, for the forces exerted during the workings of a caliper brake are greater than the standard clamps strength.
I have made brake clamps before myself, and only the heaviest and burliest would last any more than a day or two.
The heaviest and burliest clamps are certainly not what you would put on your kerin frame, even if it was available.
Find a cheaper, or even kenisis, 1 inch fork that has low clearance, and is drilled is my advice to you.
Or, just take a brake into court, in hand, and say" I bought this for my bike, I am taking it home to put it on after court."
I beleive they are still offering compliance as payment, meaning you can show you got a brake to comply.
In reality, just go to court, point out plainly that there is not a bicycle made in the world that, unless in the hands of a great stunt cyclist, and not even really then, could ever possibly comply with the braking ordinance we are required to go by.
This is a fact. Pure, unadulterated fact.
December 13th, 2006 17:49
So, Burr,
You say punish the water dept. because cyclists are running stop signs? And a street a mere 1/8th of a block away does not affect a stop sign on virtually the same corner?
This helps me understand your comments more and more.
This idea is even more ludicrous than most of your posts.
By the way, it is still illegal to ride your bike on the roadbed crossing the Morrison.
December 13th, 2006 18:53
Maybe it's time to revive this discussion:
http://bikeportland.org/2006/05/19/perspective-on-rolling-stops-from-idahos-test-case/
December 13th, 2006 18:55
Hey Aaron,
For a keirin brake, check out the Dia Compe one at http://trackstarnyc.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=93
It's a rear, though, not a front.
December 13th, 2006 19:42
To Alan Bluehole (comment number one): the account of your morning bus conversation made me sad. Were you glad you didn’t ride to work because you were afraid of the cops or you were afraid of being forced to behave like a responsible road-sharer? Likewise, which scenario is your friend scared of? It’s probably better for all of us if the both of you stick to riding the bus.
Bring on the enforcement actions, I have nothing to hide.
Well, now that I know what the "sting" was about, I know I wouldn't have been ticketed, as I enter Broadway long before that intersection. A $240 ticket would have pissed me off and I would have fought it.
As for my friend, never met him. I randomly sat next to him on the bus. I am white and he was black. I couldn't help but think that my anger that moment was probably nothing compared to his anger AND fear.
Portland cops need to stop targeting cyclists, stop killing innocent people, and start doing things like follow-through at accident scenes. If they have time to target cyclists, why can't they help me when I'm the victim of road rage?
A guy kicked out my headlight, I had his license plate number, witnesses, etc. The cops did nothing, but they have time to set up multiple cops on motorcycles to target bikes? Give me a frackin' break!
December 13th, 2006 23:53
Anyone rambling on with some argument about using their own good 'judgment' to justify a rolling stop is pathetic. Change the law or follow it. I ride every day and follow the traffic signals (yes, I want a gold star). Do I get there later than my rolling-stop compadres? Of course. So what? Follow the law and quit whining, or pay the piper. The law isn't written to accommodate your self-perceived 'good judgment' or some other obtuse factor. Cyclists want special rights? Make them the law first.
December 14th, 2006 05:40
jonathan, thanks for the anecdotal evidence. however, let me make a point.
the only people at risk when drivers speed on 26 are drivers and car passengers. sorry, but they can all get in drunken, speeding messes all they want to, they do not threaten me. when I bike down 26, I do it fast and I do it late at night.
now, the drivers(and, thus the query about stings) that concern me are the ones that speed and driver drunk around town.
not to get into details, but, one night this summer, I saw a drunk driver in a brand new silver jeep try to run over somebody. this matter has not been resolved, but the funny thing was:
7 cops descended on the scene. I thought, nice, some justice. then, well, nevermind what happened next.
so, city folks - tell me about all these auto stings? and, can you tell me about proportionality? maybe some tix were given to drivers(I dont know, I was not there) but, more were given to cyclists. so, cyclists must, therefore, be a greater threat to public safety. right?
finally, as we have proven, if you can find a suit, you can beat these tickets.
obviously, potter is aware of this blog - I can imagine their response(uhhhh, ummmmm, uhhhhh, stupid.)
December 14th, 2006 10:28
"You say punish the water dept. because cyclists are running stop signs?"
I stand by my point which is that the westbound Water Bureau trucks turning right from Broadway onto N Wheeler have a high probability of right-hooking cyclists in the bike lane due to the very poor design, geometry and sight lines of the Broadway - N Wheeler intersection, regardless of whether said cyclists are arriving at that location via Flint or via Broadway itself.
And, IMO, it is not 'punishing' the Water Bureau to ask them to lower the city's liability and reduce the risk to cyclists at this location by using the two other, much safer, available entrances to their facilities.
Th other alternative would be to redesign the bike lanes on Broadway at this location so they didn't present such a hazard to cyclists.
December 14th, 2006 11:13
no, ian, I don't need your education. I know when to start, when to stop, how fast to go and which roads to avoid.
maybe the mayor can get 500K to train us! if so, there may be some kegs involved in the training sessions.
you got any other well formed questions, ian?
December 14th, 2006 12:25
Adam, I didn't offer you an education,
you said that you were more for education then punishment. it sounds like you don't need one, but you believe that there are people out there who don't know that they need to stop at a stop sign?
what kind of education are you talking about?
December 14th, 2006 14:27
Burr
When you get on a bike get in a car or walk somewhere you need to know the law and how to do so safely, one such skill is to read unsafe situations and accomodate for all, cars and pedestrians do it all the time we need to do it also. Not trying to sound harsh but in some situations can't just obeying a law and a little common sense help us all avoid being labled special needs and winers?
December 14th, 2006 15:12
ian, here is an education for you, it is called read your posts.
specifically, in this case, post 32.
"ian
December 13th, 2006 13:02
32
adam, are you saying you need to be educated to NOT run a stop sign?"
no, I don't need to be educated on this topic, right?
in any case, I think we all need to share our valuable lessons on riding safely. you are invited to come learn more - cm, mmr, etc will allow you all that you need to learn. wait, how would I know? who knows what you know? exactly...
November 7th, 2007 20:26
The police do stings on drivers, and doing it to cyclists makes sense, especially at problem intersections. Some of the people posting on here demand enforcement for car drivers, bike riders are subject to all the same laws. The fine for traffic citations does not make a distinction between motor vehicles or bicycles, and either way the problems can be just as serious.
I can understand not wanting to completely stop at a sign/light, when driving a car with a manual transmission I'd rather not stop too, so I can save gas and wear on the clutch. I'd much rather do a rolling stop, but then I risk that same $242 ticket. If it needs to be reduced for cyclists, then it also needs to be reduced for motorists. The risk of running a stop sign/light is the same, a collision.
February 6th, 2008 17:48
Huzzah Jeremy (#67)! I'm glad to see other bikers at least think the police action was reasonable. I, for one, have no problem with a $242 fine for running a stop sign. If we want to be treated like vehicles (which I think is the best way to go, legally), we should act like them.
On a second note, I don't think we can expect extra protection as "vulnerable road users" if we don't use a little caution and protect ourselves. I hope other vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians, would stop and look before entering Broadway or any other street. So should bikes.
March 17th, 2008 15:54
I ride that way most days and while my regard for the law is about equal on bike and in my car I will say the N. Flint and Broadway stop sign is one to stop at. Tricky, bikes coming down the bike lane FAST, cars coming down Broadway and "flowing" through the curve with out regard for lanes, cars coming off the freeway and the trucks coming out of N. Wheeler... I've had some close calls even folowing the rules at this location.