Holiday Sale at Western Bikeworks

Zoobombers, cops share concerns

Posted by on August 9th, 2007 at 3:22 pm

After the meeting. L to R: Lawyer Mark Ginsberg, Traffic Division Sgt. Mike Fort, Commander Mark Kruger, and Zoobombers Dave Terry, Leah Bendlin, and Corey Sevigny.
(File photo)


I’m in a meeting downtown right now where a positive discussion is taking place between three Zoobombers and two members of the Portland Police Bureau.

Bike lawyer Mark Ginsberg is hosting and moderating the meeting. In addition to Ginsberg, in attendance from Zoobomb are Dave Terry, Corey Sevigny, and Leah Bendlin. From the PPB’s Traffic Division are Commander Mark Kruger and Sergeant Mike Fort. Matt Davis from the Portland Mercury is also here.

More to come later…

Here are the rest of the photos.

UPDATE: Matt Davis at the Mercury has posted a detailed report from the meeting (next time I’ll bring my laptop too instead of just my PDA!).

UPDATE
: I’ve posted my full recap of the meeting.

NOTE: We love your comments and work hard to ensure they are productive, considerate, and welcoming of all perspectives. Disagreements are encouraged, but only if done with tact and respect. If you see a mean or inappropriate comment, please contact us and we'll take a look at it right away. Thank you — Jonathan

42 Comments
  • a.O August 9, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    What would we do without Mark Ginsberg….?

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  • felix August 9, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Will we get our rules book for Zoobomb this Sunday?

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  • nuovorecord August 9, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Lose a lot of lawsuits and pay a bunch more in fines! 🙂

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  • toddistic August 9, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    or, we forbid you to zoobomb otherwise we\’ll arrest for disobeying a police order.

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  • BURR August 9, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    Hellway lives!

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  • el timito August 9, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    I\’ve never seen so many lawyers, police, and Zoobombers smiling at the same time, in one place before. I think this must be an historic photograph.

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  • BURR August 9, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    will the 7/15 tickets be dismissed?

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  • felix August 9, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Jesus Christ! What a love fest. The pictures are nice and all but what came of the discussion.

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) August 9, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    guys. calm down. I have family in town. no time to write report. plan to do it in the AM.

    Here are the rest of the photos.

    and BURR.. no tickets dismissed…it wasn\’t that kind of conversation.

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  • felix August 9, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    Sorry Jonathan 😉 Not trying to rush you. If anyone wants to chime in on the ZB forum please feel free.
    http://www.zoobomb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17439#17439

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  • steve August 9, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    Those photos are hilarious! Kruger looks like he is trying sooo hard not to sneer. He probably went straight home to shower with bleach and steel wool. Must.. Get.. Clean..

    Quick, someone get his pepper spray!

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  • David Dean August 9, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    Sure, I\’ll chime in. This is ridiculous! Nothing like a discussion when you have a unreasonable fines/penalties hanging over your head. I want to know why Kruger is still employed after pepper spraying little girls and impeding our First Amendment rights. Hundreds of thousands of our tax payers dollars have been spent settling lawsuits related to his misconduct, can\’t we find better people to enforce our laws?

    http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3015/4820/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RYITtEpoY

    What ever happened to Dustin Kent after he was run off the 205 bike path by a pick-up truck?

    http://bikeportland.org/…..ence-in-i-205-bike-path-incident/

    Why can\’t Kruger deal with malicious criminals rather than harassing people who are having a good time? Is crime such a non-issue in Portland that the PPB needs to harass people bicycling down a hill in the middle of the night? Our complacency has gone too far.

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  • David Dean August 9, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    A_O @ #1,

    It is time for Mr. Ginsberg to run for a judicial position with the whole cycling community behind him.

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  • BURR August 10, 2007 at 12:07 am

    props to dave \’n\’ corey \’n\’ leah for representing team diplomacy!

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  • Pj August 10, 2007 at 12:14 am

    The problem with this is the people calling themselfs representitives only represent themselfs. There is no higherarchy or leadership at zoobomb, it\’s just a bike ride. These people can speak for only themselfs, no one else. I know it\’s impossible for the police to understand a complete lack of chain of command, but it\’s there, we do it. Nothing will come of this, the police will continue to harass us, we will continue to ride, and Kruger will continue to get promotions even though we have PROOF he is a neo nazi wannabe, kid maceing, civil rights violating, lawsuit fuled money bleeding wound to the face of this city. I hope he dies a slow, painfull, horrible, screaming, agonizing death. Ask me how I really feel, go ahead.

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  • BURR August 10, 2007 at 12:23 am

    you\’re harshing the buzz man

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  • weastsider August 10, 2007 at 1:27 am

    I\’m sure all the folks involved (including the police) are very well intentioned but…

    Please, please, don\’t try to be a pseudo-negotiating representative of zoobomb.

    And, if this is merely an public information session then it seems the Police could use the zoobomb.net/forum to get across their point(s).

    I am so very happy that I saw none of my favorite bombers in these photos.

    I think THAT woulda been A TRUE buzz kill.

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  • a.O August 10, 2007 at 7:26 am

    @ #13:

    Mr. Ginsberg will not be running for office. Ever. You\’re going to have to settle for me. Bwa-ha-ha.

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  • Yuhuoo August 10, 2007 at 7:32 am

    Mark has a perfect hair line.

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  • DK August 10, 2007 at 7:45 am

    What a heart wrenching pic of the cats and the mice…It\’s like when the coyote finally catches up to the roadrunner, all the fun is gone now. What\’s next? an annual picnic in the park with all the families, sharing potato salad and playing water balloon toss???? Ugggghh!

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  • Brad August 10, 2007 at 8:16 am

    The cops have the upper hand in all of this. KGW ran Zoobomb footage shot by the cops a couple of weeks ago during their evening broadcasts and it was pretty damning. A handful of bombers slaloming across two traffic lanes in the Vista Ridge tunnel. Certainly not following the legal use use of highways permitted by state law.

    I\’ve got nothing against the Zoobomb but the cops have played this well: collect footage of offenses the general public agrees are offenses, catalog various other \”problems\” regarding noise, underage riders, being noisy in the halls of OHSU, pissing off Tri-Met, angry rich folk in the West Hills, etc. and then offer this olive branch of a meeting.

    I smell a set-up. PPB is putting on the \”good cop\” face and appears to be the reasonable party. Zoobomb will continue to do its thing and a few \”yahoos\” will break the law again. Now that the PPB has broad public support and, presumably, the backing of City Hall, they will institute a massive crackdown on the Zoobomb.

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  • toddistic August 10, 2007 at 8:18 am

    i find it incredibly ironic that after a few zoobombers posted contact info here and on their own forums for commissioners and encouraged emailing / calling / etc them they are somehow disappointed with the outcome of a sit down meeting with the PPD? get some perspective, thats how you get two sides who disagree to \”work\” things out.

    and why does kruger look like the guy in Terminator 2? I keep thinking \”where\’s john connor?\” everytime I see his photo.

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  • DK August 10, 2007 at 8:34 am

    \’Cause Kruger out-foxed \’em again. These young z-ber\’s have alot to learn in our society!

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  • wsbob August 10, 2007 at 9:21 am

    Brad (#21), I think you nailed it. How often do you hear the zbombers owning up to the crap you mentioned? Classic case of putting your head in the noose.

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  • LY August 10, 2007 at 9:53 am

    I wish the ZooBombers would stop acting like a terrible injustice is being wrought upon them. They\’ve championed themselves as part of Portland\’s bicycle culture, and now they don\’t want to play by the rules. Sorry, but when you become high-profile, you have to take the responsibility that comes with it.

    And that \”oh, these people are just yahoos that showed up\” is a complete cop-out. Every other cycling club in Portland is responsible for the actions of anyone that shows up for a group ride; ZooBomb should be no different.

    It\’s time to s—, or get off the pot.

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  • Betty August 10, 2007 at 10:03 am

    As much as I read and see about Mark Ginsberg I can\’t help thinking he\’s a schlock lawyer that found a nitch in the Portland Bicycling Community. Personally. I think he\’s exploited the cycling industry here because he wouldn\’t be able to make a living in any other aspect of the law. Look at his ads. A little man on a tricycle with a helmet.

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  • Kristen August 10, 2007 at 10:09 am

    Pj, the Mercury report (which I\’m sure Jonathon will vouch for as far as accuracy) quotes Corey S as saying there is no hierarchy or organization. I don\’t think the \’Bombers who showed up for this are saying that they\’re the ones in charge.

    I just think they\’re the only ones who were interested in discussing and possibly coming to a resolution about the \’Bombers issues with the cops.

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  • K-Man August 10, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Mark ROCKS!

    Umm… Betty. Mark\’s a really cool guy- not a schlock lawyer. I race with him and he\’s a class act. If you really feel that way you should e-mail him and go out for a cup of coffee. He\’s super nice and a really genuine person.

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  • DK August 10, 2007 at 10:43 am

    I think they just wanted their 15 minutes… and the rights to say they\’re a member of the not so \”notorious\” Z.b.\’s.

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  • SKiDmark August 10, 2007 at 11:09 am

    LY: I think you completely miss the point of Zoobomb. There are no rules, so no rules to \”play by\”. Zoobomb leaves all of it up to the individual. Anarchy means self-rule, not chaos. There are no leaders of Zoobomb. There have been public spokespeople and people who take on extra responsibility but they are not in charge. Nobody is.

    DK: You don\’t know the people in the pictures so you don\’t know their level of involvement in Zoobomb. One of them manages the Zoobomb \”bike library\”.

    I don\’t think there is a way to resolve the \”issues\” and have it still be Zoobomb. I wouldn\’t want a watered-down safe for public consumption mainstream version of Zoobomb anyways.

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) August 10, 2007 at 11:14 am

    I\’ve just posted my full recap.

    Check it out.

    A story and issue like this is almost impossible to cover without criticisms and allegations of bias one way or the other… so let it fly!

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  • steve August 10, 2007 at 11:17 am

    The first rule, is you don\’t talk about zoobomb.

    And Toddistic post #22-

    Please, do not insult the guy from Terminator 2 by making unfounded accusations of Captain Crookkkers resemblance to him.

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  • Betty August 10, 2007 at 11:25 am

    K-Man,
    We all have our experiences and our opinions. I\’m happy to hear you had good experiences with Gingsberg. I didn\’t. I think he\’s a hot head with an enormously BIG mouth. That\’s my experience. He lost a case for me because he\’s more into his ego then what\’s real. He is the world. It\’s is all about him. He HAS to be at the CENTER. Such a waste…

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  • DK August 10, 2007 at 11:42 am

    As far as Ginsberg is concerned sounds like little guy syndrome has crossed over to biking from big diesels…can\’t say- never met him. And on another point like steve said (#32)…it was cool to know about zoobombs but not talk about it. It\’s their own stinkin\’ fault that they\’re on the fringe to ruining it from here on out for everyone- alumni included. Better bomb while you can…before it\’s too late. Maybe the do-gooders can break off and find another place to call their own.

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  • jeremy August 10, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    hey Betty-
    you sound bitter about your court outcome…is it Mark\’s fault or your own for being cited? grow up.

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  • handsome? August 10, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    ouch, it\’s so funny , but I only read this shit for the laughs.
    1. DK- don\’t know you or how long you been around, or if you\’re even a bomber, but really, get a fuckin clue. I understand you\’re upset but just think about it for a minute. We haven\’t had problems with the cops in a year, and before that never, at least not on the hill. In these past 3-4 weeks they\’re all over it(you were probably too busy in front of your computer talking shit about other people to ride with us, but take it from me, I WAS there)and I wanted to know why. We had this meeting for only one reason: TO FIND OUT HOW TO MAKE THE COPS LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE. Now if you want cops up your ass on Sunday, that\’s your business, but we were doing the only thing we\’ve found that actually reduces the heat on the hill. Which is to find out why the hell they are up there and what the hell it will take to make them leave. Now call us names, if you like, but we\’ve done this before, and we may have to do it again. By the way each meeting has had a completely different line-up of bombers, it may seem like we\’re selling you out, but we\’re just trying to keep it the way it\’s always been: no cops on o.g., newbomb, and big burnside. And you don\’t have to thank us every time you don\’t get a ticket in the future, we know you got our backs.
    To all the Sunday night riders(aka the real zoobombers): The main point the cops made, that didn\’t make it into the paper, was that they will only \”do enforcement\” on the hill, if we break their rules on the highway. So if those people riding the highway piss off the cops then the whole group will suffer on all our other routes. There were other points the cops made and if you want to know what was said we will debrief the team this Sunday. We never told the cops we would guarantee anything, but hearing them out seemed like a good way to understand the problem. And knowing is half the battle, right?
    So whatever, I know haters hate, but seriously take a pill or something. I\’ve been bombing for 5 years and I handle the library, the newbies, and a lot of the political bullshit(that catches me a lot of grief from the haters), but since I\’m up there every Sunday I want this to be as good as it can be and last forever. And not with cops up there every Sunday to give us tickets or worse. Like it or not I\’m trying to do what I think is best for Zoobomb. Oh, and if you don\’t like it, try and do it better. I\’ll be at the library at 9PM, just like every Sunday, to listen to your questions and comments.

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  • Betty August 11, 2007 at 9:24 am

    Jeremy,
    Don\’t get fooled by a lawyer on a bike. A lawyer is a lawyer – I don\’t care what he\’s sitting on. You need to grow up. Be aware of your environment and the people in it. Ginsberg is NOT Ray Thomas. Ginsberg is a little arrogant napeolean who exploits the bicycling community in order to survive his extravagant life style. A Lawyer is a lawyer!

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  • BURR August 11, 2007 at 10:00 am

    We\’re all sorry hiring Mark Ginsberg didn\’t work out for you, but you really need to get over it Betty.

    Mark gives plenty back to the Portland cycling community. For starters, he has a long time policy of defending, pro bono, Critical Mass riders who receive tickets from overzealous cops. He is also the current chairperson of the city\’s Bicycle Advisory Committee, a strictly volunteer position. He has also be instrumental in challenging the Barnum and Balzer circus act of ticketing fixed gear riders for equipment violations.

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  • BURR August 11, 2007 at 11:25 am

    What exactly does \”breaking their rules on the highway\” mean??? It is legal to ride on the highway and if Kruger\’s idea of \”their rules\” – as opposed to what is actually in the Oregon Revised Statues – is to try and force ZooBombers to ride in \”\’the bike lane\”, which is actually an unmarked shoulder full of hazardous debris; then the law allows cyclists to move left to avoid the hazardous condition:

    ORS 814.430(2)(c)

    814.430 Improper use of lanes; exceptions; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of improper use of lanes by a bicycle if the person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic using the roadway at that time and place under the existing conditions and the person does not ride as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.
    (2) A person is not in violation of the offense under this section if the person is not operating a bicycle as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway under any of the following circumstances:
    (a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle that is proceeding in the same direction.
    (b) When preparing to execute a left turn.
    (c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or other conditions that make continued operation along the right curb or edge unsafe or to avoid unsafe operation in a lane on the roadway that is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side by side. Nothing in this paragraph excuses the operator of a bicycle from the requirements under ORS 811.425 or from the penalties for failure to comply with those requirements.
    (d) When operating within a city as near as practicable to the left curb or edge of a roadway that is designated to allow traffic to move in only one direction along the roadway. A bicycle that is operated under this paragraph is subject to the same requirements and exceptions when operating along the left curb or edge as are applicable when a bicycle is operating along the right curb or edge of the roadway.
    (e) When operating a bicycle alongside not more than one other bicycle as long as the bicycles are both being operated within a single lane and in a manner that does not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.
    (f) When operating on a bicycle lane or bicycle path.
    (3) The offense described in this section, improper use of lanes by a bicycle, is a Class D traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §701; 1985 c.16 §339]

    I should think that this would be of interest to many more cyclists than just ZooBombers, as it has to do with bicyclists\’ fundamental right to use the roads.

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  • DK August 13, 2007 at 11:02 am

    handsome…been around longer than you I bet, and have learned enough to stayu out of court more than you too…again I\’d bet money. You z.b.\’s piss the cops off, and now you pay. End of story. If anyone rides with you guys-gals…it probably is too dangerous to stop at all the signs and lights anyway, without an out of control z.b.er riding up your ass. It\’s your ride so go for it, and quit bitchin\’ when you get stopped and ticketed for breaking the law.

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  • Jimbo August 13, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    Betty

    You may have confused Mark G.\’s confidence as \”EGO\”. Mark handled a case for me, and made it clear from the start he was not into the \”poor injured cyclist who\’s life was over because of one accident\”. He was into me getting healed and back on the bike…he was not into me being a \”victim\”. But he was also very professional in handling all aspects of the insurance process. There is way too much an insurance company can get over on you if you do not have someone like Mark backing you. Lawyers will always have a bad reputation, and its never good to be caught up in the justice system…good side or bad side… But that\’s the system. Mark is definitely one of the good guys. Don\’t know what your circumstances were with Mark, but as my daughter said at the tender age of 10…. cry a river, build a bride, then get F— over it. Good luck to you.

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  • Jimbo August 13, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    that be….build a bridge My daughter can also spell better than me……

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