There’s a new group of two-wheeled advocates in town, and they share many of the same issues as we do. Their numbers are growing and so is their influence in City Hall.
On May 10th, Portland City Council voted to form the first-ever Motorcycle and Scooter Citizens Advisory Committee (MSCAC). Similar to the Bicycle Advisory Committee, this group will be headed up by a PDOT employee and will be guided by citizen input.
The move reflects a resurgence of interest in scooters and motorcycles. PDOT’s Dan Bower — the man who will chair the new committee — says registrations are up 41% in the last three years and Portland is home to the #1 Vespa dealer in the country.
What does that mean for bicycles? Is this an opportunity to join forces and work together on issues we share?
File photo
According to Bower, who also works on bicycle-related issues and projects in his role in the Transportation Options department of PDOT, the answer is a resounding yes.
He rattled off a familiar list of issues they’d like to bring to the table, including working for better road conditions (especially potholes; sewer grates; and thick, slippery paint on crosswalks); improving the quality and quantity of parking; and a major concern for safety.
Bower gleaned much of his information about scooter and motorcycle drivers from the City of Portland Motorcycle and Scooter User Survey that was completed last year (download here). He said many of the results of that survey, especially the question of barriers to riding, were “strikingly similar” to what he has learned from bicyclists.
On the national front, the motorcycle and scooter lobby is highly organized toward working for more severe sentencing for car and truck drivers who injure and/or kill motorcyclists. The American Motorcyclist Association’s “Justice for All” campaign deals with many of the same issues we’ve discussed on this site in the past.
While PDOT is now officially listening to operators of motorcycles and scooters, they stop short of officially promoting them.
The question now is, how can we join forces with this emerging advocacy group to further issues we both share? I think a great start would be to have bike advocates at the first meeting of this new committee. Another idea might be to coordinate a big ride for their planned Ride to Work Day on June 19th July 18th.
What do you think? Do we embrace this opportunity to strengthen our voice and work to solve mutual issues, or do we keep our distance from our motorized brethren?
For more on this issue check out:
- A good article from the Biking Bis blog titled “Can bicycle and motorcycle groups make roads safer?”
- PDOT’s Motorcycles web page
- A blog post about this from Transportation Commissioner Sam Adams
Thanks for reading.
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This is a good effort and I’m glad to see PDOT engaging motorcyclists/scooterists in dialog. There are many shared issues between the two modes of transport.
My only gripe with them is that there are few if any emission controls on their engines and the amount of pollution they emit is way higher than most automobiles. I would like to see the state begin working on cleaning up these vehicles, enacting a law similar to our recent adoption of California auto emission standards.
There are likely more similarities than differences in our transport issues relative to the ‘big boys’ [cars and trucks]. So, I would think it’s a good partnership for advocacy.
I do agree with nuovorecord in that the pollution can be substantial from some of the older models, but this is just one of the issues to be worked on.
Vehicles of this scale are good for the City. I have been working more and more on hybrids of the human+electric variety … basically electric assisted bikes. From the point of view of genuine transport, this makes a lot of sense: help on hills, heavier cargo capacity, expanded range, increased average speed [thus decreasing trip time], and maintaining the benefits of human power – with zero emissions from the electric motor.
Brand new 2-stroke engines often have electronic fuel and oil injection. In the past the problem with 2-stroke engines is that the owner would mix in too much oil, causing that big blue cloud. Also the oils are now full-synthetic and you don’t get the big cloud of tailpipe emissions anymore. They still use less gas than a car, and less rubber with only two tiny tires. Tire fill up landfills, you know. There are not very tight emissions guidelines in the US for motorcycles and scooters but there are in the European Union and in Japan, and the scooters are made to meet those regulations. I don’t think Vespa even makes a 2-stroke scooter over 50cc’s anymore, all the new bigger Vespas are 4-stroke. Piaggio, Vespa’s parent company made a hybrid scooter in the late 80’s/early 90’s, I don’t know if they make one now.
I parked my Vespa 5 years ago when I got a bicycle. It would cost about 10 bucks to fill up my tank at today’s gas prices which to me is absolutely ridiculous. Traffic moves so slow here that riding a motorcycle is no fun anyways, riding a bike is much more enjoyable and often times quicker.
Should the new Interstate 5 Bridge be designed to accomodate these road users (light scooters, mopeds, neighborhood electric vehicles/ NEVs, electric bikes, etc., Segways)?
Where would they go:
– on the proposed single shared bike ped pathway, or
– on the normal [high speed] travel lanes?
– Or on a ‘super pathway’ set aside for fast human powered commuter traffic (bikes) and these light motorized vehicles?
Or not at all…like the two existing bridges?
Send your opinions to the Columbia River Crossing staff via their web site (listed above).
Todd Boulanger
Transportation Services
City of Vancouver
(CRC bike & pedestrian pathway subcommittee member)
To get to the CRC web site…just click on my name or type in http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org
Joint advocacy with this group makes sense for now due to:
– similar vulnerability to car traffic (speed and poor street design)
– similar parking needs
– similar envelope and operational issues in cities
– allows inclusion of electric bikes onto bikeways
– enlarges our ‘narrow’ constituency and eases the mental barrier of powered vs. nonpowered that some drivers have about using or supporting alt mode facilities.
– a way to fund shared facilities paths, bridges, parking, ferries) by vehicles that directly pay into the fuel tax fund
The air quality issues should begin to clear up as smaller and cleaner 4 cycle engines are integrated into these vehicles.
Hi all. Please do get in touch with the Portland scooter community. Go here:
http://doughnut.net/mailman/listinfo/pdxtss-l
There are many scooterists who are also cyclists! I have 2 Vespas and 3 bicycles and love them all. 85% of the issues facing us concern them both.
Yes please integrate more slow moving traffic lanes over to Vancouver in the new bridge. It is kind of scary to ride it on a Vespa. Perhaps you could do some type of wind blocking agents as well. That is a big part of it.
mike
I was in Taiwan a few years ago and they had scooter lanes on the freeways.
Scooters and small-engined motorcycles are a viable transportation mode as gasoline prices rise; since we have road-sharing and motorist-bullying issues in common with motorcyclists this alliance makes tons of sense. I was in Italy last summer for a few weeks–scooters rule the cities there!
Count me in! I’m more leary of driving my Vespa now, in 2007 then I ever was driving my Honda 250 Elite in 1986. As well, as a mother of a bicycle commuter, I see many similarities (and differences). I would love to be involved with this new group as it grows.
I don’t know what’s wrong with your Vespas, a stock P200e should be able to go 60 mph no problem. Most of the 150’s will go at least 45mph all the way back to the 1960’s.
“Should the new Interstate 5 Bridge be designed to accomodate these road users (light scooters, mopeds, neighborhood electric vehicles/ NEVs, electric bikes, etc., Segways)?”
This idea , I am sorry to point it out, is just stupid…
We are already going to be overfunding a new bridge, that will likely have inadequate bicycle crossing….
To add electric and motorized vehicles and such is just stupid..
When I come across a electric or gas scooter, or even a segway in a bike lane, I cut them off, and bitch them out…..I wil point out a huge violater of this is Homer, the developer of the South Waterfront, who flies down bike lanes wrecklessly on his Segway……….
And, while the newer scooters are more enviornmentally friendly (barely) the old ones which are the predominate ones ridden are not.
I will also remind you of what happened to Cat a couple of years ago, who was in a coma for quite a while after a hit and run by a unlicensed style pocket rocket (basically a scooter)…….
I believe there should not be a single gas or non-handicapped user electric vehicle allowed on the streets (even in neighborhoods), and especially no multi user, or bike lane, that is not fully liscensed, deq’ed, and insured. This due to the weight to power ratio alot of these have, which is in a sense making it a machine that can easily cause a death….
In conclusion I support the scooter advocacy group, but we need a definite seperation between scooter advocacy and bicycle advocacy…………No question!
I’ve been a sometimes bike commuter and a sometimes motorcycle rider for a number of years. My feeling is that anyone on the road with the wind in their face is ok by me. Except for maybe that redneck the other day who hung his head out of his giant pickup to call me a fag.
I deffinently think our two groups can work together on certain issues. Does anyone know if the vulnerable roadway users bill includes scooters and motercycles?
In any case, it seems to me that we’ll be coordinating with them on a case by case basis; but obviously we both have our own areas of interest where we split ways.
It occurs to me that I very rarely see scooters of motorcycles on the bicycle blvds. This seems a little odd to me as, especially for those scooters with weaker engines, a network of low speed roadways seems like it would be beneficial to this group.
I second Martha’s comments almost exactly. Overall, I don’t want to share an off-road pathway with anything that has an engine, but I would however love to see more motorcycles and scooters ON the road. My rides up on Skyline would be much more enjoyable if I was being passed by them instead of cars! In any case, the fact that we share many of the same problems creates a need to fight together. Due to the fact that the solutions to those problems will likely differ for each mode, it makes even more sense to collaborate and communicate with each other constantly. Another interesting similarity we have is the existence of sub-cultures within the subculture: cruisers, sport bikes, scooters, touring, etc. Motorcyclists need a Jonathan Maus on their side to unify their voice!
After reading over these posts, I’d like to point out that there are different classes of the general term scooters defined by DMV.
A “moped” is less than 50cc and limited to 25mph. Their license plates begin with MP. They don’t need to have pedals.
A machine that’s bigger than 50cc or can go faster than 25mph should be registered has a “motorcycle.”
A “power assisted bicycle” is a bicycle with a motor less than 35cc (or 30?) or 1000watts if electric. They’re limited to 20mph under power alone.
The pocket rockets that Dabby mentioned and Segways are not considered vehicles and are not allowed on the road.
The obvious alliance should be between bicycles, mopeds and power assisted bicycles. The speeds and relative sizes are all similar.
Jeff – I think I know that guy in the pickup (kidding), he lives in Clackamas County and used to chuck beer cans at me when I was riding on Oatfield at night (unfortunately, that part is NOT kidding)
JE said “Segways are not considered vehicles and are not allowed on the road.”
Not true. At least, not the last part. ORS 814.550(2) says that Segways operate on bike lanes and roads the same way that bicycles do, except when otherwise specified by statute.
Segways must be in the bike lane if the road speed limit is 35+ mph. They may not operate faster than 15 mph in the bike lane or on a multi-use path. They must provide audible warning on sidewalks and multi-use paths, and they must slow to the speed of an ordinary walk (presumably 3mph) when approaching or crossing crosswalks, curbs, driveways, etc. (those last 2 items also apply to bicycles)
ORS 814.554 allows local municipalities to add additional restrictions, including banning their use entirely, so Segway laws may differ depending on what city you live in.
Segways should not be allowed in bike lanes!!!!
Period..
People are abusing the priveledge left and right.
Rolling through stores, down bike lanes………
Electric and gas vehicles should not be in the bike lane………….
Don’t you people get it?
And, to JE above, I realize that some of those I mentioned are not legal street vehicles…
Yet, they are part of the problem, and huge abusers of priviledge…
I could see the scooter advocacy group doing a good thing by getting control of this rouge group….
I referenced them due to Todd’s crazy idea to make a path for them on the new bridge………..
Keep your Segway out of MY BIKE LANE
(yes, I said “my”, and I mean it..as a cyclist, the collect “us” becomes “my” in the singular sense.)
I enjoy riding my Aprilia 150cc scooter and my Cinelli Supercorsa. They have many similar safety concerns; mainly being recognized by cars and trucks as legitimate vehicles on the highway. Modern cycles are built to comply with emission standards and produce way less emissions than a typical car.
Regulations exist for officers to ticket cycles, trucks, and cars, producing excess emissions, but unfortunately officers don’t often cite for this problem.
My guess is any effort the city makes to encourage scooters will have a positive impact on bicyclists. Just having one dedicated parking space in a city square block where scooter/motorcycles could park for free would really help encourage cycle/scooter use. Motorcycles have a ‘two-wheeled mentality’. They also know they will be likely hurt in any type of a collision. You don’t hear about motorcyclists running over bicycles very often. The city would be safer for cyclists with fewer cars on the road.
I disagree with the ‘Justice for All’ campaign being waged by the AMA. I’m surprised AO hasn’t given us some insight here. In our system of justice intent is a critical part of commiting a crime. I agree that people seem to get off pretty easy at times, but you rarely hear about the results of the civil cases in these accidents. Little old driver, for example, doesn’t see the bike or scooter after making a complete and legal stop at an intersection and pulls out and kills the cyclist. A horrible senseless tragedy, for sure. Driver gets a $150 fine and a suspended license. What you don’t hear about is the two million dollar settlement made to the survivors/estate in civil court. You could make it be a minimum of a $25,000 fine and 25 years in jail and the incidence of these types of accidents would not decrease. These are accidents where the driver has no negligence, recklessness, or intent to harm. If the driver has intent to harm, is operating recklessly or negligently, then you have a criminal problem worthy of some significant punishment. Because I like to ride my bicycle so much I wish desparately that it wasn’t so, but I accept that I may be killed in an instant for no reason at all other than someone simply didn’t see me. I would not want a driver sent to jail for years on end because they just didn’t see me. I wouldn’t mind them being required to take a safety class and perform community service to increase cycling safety, but there’s no point in beating someone who has no intent to harm if they are otherwise behaving in a fashion which is not reckless or negligent.
Thanks for making the connection to the scooter group. I’m sure many readers will take advantage of this opportunity to advocate for both user groups. Sorry to take-off on the AMA program; I just think its ill-advised and unneccessary and similar arguments are often expressed in anger and frustration over bicycle accidents.
And to follow up on Matt’s point…vehicle laws for Segways also differ by state…like in Washington…it is a bi-state bridge Dabby.
Think of a scooter/ electric bike as a bridge vehicle to get someone out of a car and onto a bike. (Do not worry about Segways…the market seems to be solving that problem.)
I have brought up this design question not so much as I would enjoy sharing a bike path with a multitude of such vehicles in packs…especially if they are old 2 cycle powered mopeds/ crotch rockets & poorly maintained…but more out of a concern that ‘we’ are designing another public bridge as a barrier to ‘neighborhood’ vehicles (NEVs etc.) between states.
Plus they could be an ally in our struggle to get a ‘world class’ bridge for bicyclists and pedstrians…vs. something that is only as ‘good as today’ (actually last year’s design standard) and not in 2035. And the fuel tax issue.
(I got to ride around mopeds for many years in Honolulu…where there are more mopeds/ scooters than bikes inb the road.)
Dabby – I totally agree, Segways don’t belong in the bike lane. The law allows it, though, as long as they don’t exceed 15mph. I’m not willing to fight the law on it right now, since there’s so damned few of them out there – it’s not like I’m dodging Segways on the Springwater.
I ride a 1980 Vespa P200 and it only costs about $4 to fill up, not $10 like previously stated. I think that in order for bicyclists and scooter/motorcycle riders to work together, we need to find those issues that we share in common. For example, parking, road conditions, safety issues, etc. I know emissions are a big concern. Scooters manufactured currently are much more clean on emissions due to the fact they are four stroke engines. Many of them also meet the strict California emission standards. They are not better than a car, yet. However, that should not be the only consideration. Fuel economy is a huge selling point for riding a scooter or motorcycle. Many new scooters get up to 80-100 m.p.g. They are quieter, take up less space than a car, and have less impact on the road. It is also easier for a scooter or motorcycle to share the road with a bicycle than a car.
Let’s focus on what we have in common, instead of our differences. I think that if we work together on this, we can get a lot accomplished!
Jonathan, a small correction, Ride to Work Day is JULY 18, 2007.
I ride anything with two wheels and commute 40 miles round trip a day. Currently have a choice each day between 2 bycycles and a 2005 Honda 250 scooter. The issues facing both goups are largely the same, and by issues I mean things that will likely result in death. Scooters, just like cars, run the gammut on how clean they are. Some are nasty little spewers of toxins, and some models are now coming with full on catalytic converters and emisions controls running cleaner than any car. In closing, Dabby makes me want to own one of the CafePress shirts that everyones throwing a funk about, Chill Out Dude!