Just want to give a shout out to listeners of The Playhouse. Welcome to BikePortland.org. This is a blog that covers the cycling community here in Portland and it is open to everyone with constructive input on the issues.
If you are trying to post hateful or divisive comments about the recent situation I will not publish them.
I know you found this site because PK spent most of this morning’s show talking about our reaction to comments he made on his show on Thursday.
Unfortunately PK has chosen to spin and misrepresent the situation. This is too bad because, judging from some emails and comments I’ve received he has only made things worse.
It is also unfortunate that for some reason the podcast of the show in question has not been made available online. If the station would just make the show available in unedited form (like all other shows from that week) it would be very helpful. I called the station to ask about this and I was put on hold indefinitely so I hung up.
If I have taken PK’s comments out of context, than why not make the recording of the show available so we can listen and put this to rest once and for all?
I just want all 95.5 listeners to know that we agree cyclists should not break the rules of the road. And just FYI, cyclists are given the same traffic fines as motorists and we are often the focus of specialized enforcement crackdowns by the police.
But please realize that while there are definitely some cyclists with bad attitudes, there are also drivers with bad attitudes. Bottom line is that we all need to work together to make our roads safe. The person’s life you save may end up being your friend, co-worker, or relative.
Please be respectful and courteous out there.
Thanks for reading.
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It would be great to read a summary of what is being said on the air. (I cannot stomach to actually listen to commercial radio.)
This is what I feared would happen…but nonetheless thanks for having the courage to confront these people…
The mainstream PDX media (The Oregonian, KGW, KOIN, KATU, FOX) is going to have to report on this issue if there is going to be any real repercussions against the radio show or the station. Have they been notified? (Probably to busy covering the plane crash). Where’s the Jonathan Nicolas column?
I have some edited sound bites posted at:
http://web.pdx.edu/~jasun/haters/
NOTE: These sound bites are edited in the same style in which the shock jock host uses. They are not neutral and are cut and reedited as such to reflect my point of view. The best way to understand this is to listen to the whole segments.
Sadly, the radio show will blather on for hours using this issue as filler. Really, the producer and host should simply get a bit more acquainted with the need for *less* aggro talk about cyclists/cars/traffic, and *more* talk about integrating these road entities peacefully.
Simply put, the populations of vehicles/bikes/etc don’t change much when issues like this arise, but the attitudes do – all around. That radio show could be educating its audience on the details, but since its a “playhouse” of “wacky wild stuff”, it choose the hack. Sad, really – just not a real community leader here.
This is what the Playhouse IS. They are a bunch of assholes that feed on destruction. That is why so many people love their show. We are forced to be so PC every where we go, especially in Portland. P.K. is simply the devils advocate.
While nobody wants to see people get hurt, its fun to talk about all the ignorant cycleist getting run down by a car. People of this city are fed up with the bikers downtown, and I love that P.K. is verbalizing it.
On a serious note, in addition to alerting the local media, what about getting Sam Adams involved? This is a transportation issue (hate speech as well?) and perhaps the commisioner can bring some City Hall pressure to bear on Rose City Radio and their staff. The Mayor rides also…
what?!
Why are you guys taking the Playhouse so seriously? I was tearing up from laughter during P.K.’s tyrade the other day when he was ripping on you bikers here in Portland. I have ridden a bike before, but I still thought it was funny.
Also realize that you hardcore bikers are not his core audience, and nothing will happen to his ratings when you protest. He appeals to people that drive to work, because they have radios.
My point is for you guys to get over your selves, and take P.K.’s comments in the context they were meant, and that was as a joke.
Dean,
you rode your bike once. This gives you huge legs to stand on. The problem is, that his core audience might think it’s funny, but they might also take him seriously. A cyclists biggest risk and fear is getting mowed down and possibly killed by a car. All we want is to feel safe while biking. This show put our safety at risk by promoting and making injury and death to cyclists seem funny and acceptable. Think about what you value. Do you value your life and choices? Consider how you would respond if someone put you, your friends, and your family at risk.
I have a bike, but I would never ride it down town during busy traffic hours. I have enough problems getting around safely in my car. I have friends that ride their bike to work, and I tell them that they are stupid, and deserve anything that may happen to them…God forbid.
It would be interesting to see the reaction (on both sides of the car/bike divide) if the topic of the show had been, say, foreign automakers and the host had advocated hanging out on overpasses and dropping heavy rocks onto the windshields of oncoming Hondas and Toyotas…
Dean,
We don’t worry about you. You are an adult, educated, and you understand the difference between sophomoric humor and a call to action.
What I worry about is the core Jammin’ 95.5 demographic: males 16-21. Lots of idle time, inexperienced behind the wheel, not the best decision makers, cannot distinguish the line between a harmless prank and a potential traffic fatality, etc. These are the ones that PK can influence. These are the ones that think “dooring” a rider at 5 MPH is “funny”. The one’s that think it’s hilarious to launch a half consumed Big Gulp at a cyclist doing 40 MPH downhill on N.W. Cornell. The ones that think such “pranks” will give them street cred because PK and the crew would do it.
As for context, I cannot buy that argument. Why is “joking” about running over bike riders funny? If I went on air and said, “I laugh everytime I hear the cops shot some (insert race reference here) along Interstate Ave!” I’d be facing hate speech charges. Even if I just said it as a joke – for ratings and shock value. It’s the same thing. It creates an intimidating and dangerous environment for the vulnerable.
wow! So you are too scared to ride your bike, but your fine with ridiculing people who aren’t? We just learned a lot about you Dean.
Joe you speak brilliantly, point taken. Vigilante- P.K. of the Playhouse wasn’t talking about hunting down bikers to hit. He was talking about the ones that avoid the traffic laws and cut cars and trucks off. I don’t feel bad when those morons get hit. Just like I wouldn’t feel bad if a car ran a red and got hit.
these are what the useless skinbags that listen to his tripe have to say. this is taken directly from his site. he needs to be fired
And now, what civilized people have to say:
# Hey playhouse! I’m am very much so on your side when it comes to the cyclists. This weekend was the STP, in which the cyclists came plowing through St. Helens. On top of all of those a-holes, we also had Warped Tour going on, causing major traffic issues. These cyclists were riding sometimes 3 wide, riding in the lanes of the highway. They were also slowing down and pacing the cars when they saw that they needed to turn. FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE ROAD!
# Hey Playhouse. Unlike those Nincom f’ing poop bike riders, I listed to the show and they are completely mis-interpreting your words. I don’t give an S if some biker not following the rules gets hit by a car, just like I don’t care if some dumbass in a car kills himself not following the rules; rock on playhouse.
# Hi PK, I wanted to comment on your ‘Bikers Suck’ topic from Friday and today. I just wanted to say that I hate those same bikers, the ones that have absolutely no street smarts or regards for others. I’ll bet half or more of those bikers are people that had DUI’s and can’t drive cars, therefore leaving them bitter and hateful toward people with drivers licenses. This morning there was a stupid biker in front of me in the Pearl District and of course she ran a stop sign so I blared my horn at her. Keep up the good work.
# Morning Playhouse! I wish all these holier than thou cyclists would start paying the same taxes us drivers do to use the roads, I think that until they pay a fee for their bike, and a liscense to ride on our streets and a tire tax, they have no right to protest about anything, they show no respect for larger moving vehicles on the road. Please can we have the same rules on the river apply on the road, a kayak must give right of way to a larger boat on upto tankers having true full right of way. A bike will stop easier than any car or truck, they should be the MOST cautious of all of the vehicles on the road.
# Hey Playhouse! This started in NY because of the riders who cut in between cars, cut us off from the left to make a right, drove in between cars and never gave a clue to which way they were go. Those people need to stay the hell off the road. Bikes and cars/trucks do not go together.
Coda, my fear comes from common sense. I am also afraid to jump off cliffs or buildings without a parachute.
I beleive in the first amendment absolutely. I can’t stand censorship in any form. I wouldn’t be worrying about idiots that think its funny to mess with bikers any more today than before P.K.s show that was making fun of them.
I have done all that to bikers before. Eggs, paint pellets, pizza, soda, and anything that was readily available to chuck at them. I unfortunately injured the biker on an occasion, because he rode straight into a parked car. I only bring this up to prove that idiots (like I used to be) will be around reguardless of the Playhouse.
Dean, you realize you have admitted to possible multiple felonies?
dean, how about you come to the next protest and tell me how you feel. i’d love to here it from your face.
Well, I did what I did. I am not proud of it, and no, I’m not afraid of admitting to it as far as legality goes. See Joe, I know what kind of a person you are when you say “next protest”. It tells me that without these protests you would have no identity. I might go to some protest in the future, but I would never figure that I would be going to one.
Joe, you are the guy that shows up to a protest with your blank cardboard sign and a marker. Somebody please tell Joe how he feels.
Dean and Joe,
I appreciate all your comments, but please try and stay on topic with the larger issues. This site is not a place for both of you to settle your personal differences.
Thank you.
I am making my point, and these “pro-bikers” are threatening me instead of having a conversation with me. No, I don’t feel threatented, but that is what they are resorting to.
I haven’t threatened anyone, but I have called out certain people that did threaten me.
Back on topic…you people on bikes don’t pay for registration, or any kind of tire tax. Hell, you don’t even need to be liscensed to ride along vehicles that need ALL of the above, so yes, these roads do belong to the cars and trucks. I know under Oregon law people on bikes are given certain rights, but that all goes out the window when a truck is sucking you into his wheel well.
Dean says
“He was talking about the ones that avoid the traffic laws and cut cars and trucks off. I don’t feel bad when those morons get hit.”
Problem is that most people don’t know bike laws at all. Just see the above person who says they were “in the lanes of traffic.”. Well they can occupy a lane in traffic by law. People think they know trafiic laws but they don’t. It’s sad but some cops don’t know the traffic laws completely that they enforce.
The people who would listen to this type of show aren’t smart enough to know the laws, and think because they feel someone else is doing something wrong, they are ok to not feel bad about hitting them.
It is fairly obvious that some of the people coming by here now are show members or listeners.
Dean says that without protests, you would have no identity. Same goes for him throwing things to feel superior. He does so to have an identity above the loser he is. he’s just the bully. If he’s not afraid to say so for legality reasons, he should state his name then. It is truly idiots like him (as he says) that will do things just to fuel himself and he radio hosts.
Still waiting for the podcasts you losers.
Dean,
You seem to be suffering under the same delusion Lars and P.K. share that roads are paid for entirely by registration and auto-related taxes. That is simply not true and has not ever been. To put roads in this country into historical context, one would actually have to admit the League of American Wheelmen (a bicycling advocacy organization) were instrumental in the creation of paved roads, long before autos were ever commonplace.
Well Jeremy, welcome to the 21st century. Bikes are now just in the way in congested areas like downtown Portland. Go bike in the mountains, and other places that are out of the way. I don’t want to hear the arguement about worse traffic if all the byciclist drove cars. I would rather they were in cars moving with traffic, than in the way.
Everyone that pays taxes in Oregon are paying some money towards the roads. I am just saying, until bikers are held to a similar standard as far as registration and liscensing, stay the hell out of our way.
Feel free to get your state to make us have a license to ride on roads. Fine by me. Everyone gets a license or state id card whether or not they own and drive a car. The id peoples money doesn’t go magically to sidewalks. Its DMV money that is spent on roads, whether or not those id people like it. I don’t know how your tire tax works where you are, so I can’t comment on that.
If you feel that bikes are not allowed on roads, well that doesn’t mean a thing. We live in a democratic country, there is a process to change laws. Get it on a ballot and let the people decide. Don’t complain, do something about it.
I tried to tell you this was all a gig, and now the gig has gotten even bigger. Heck I’m an avid cyclist, commute to work, race, blah blah blah, but at this point I’m starting to find this whole thing pretty entertaining….
If the radio management was really worried about what he was saying do you think he would have gone on this morning with the gig again??
I just hope I don’t end up with a bottle chucked at me while I’m riding because of this…..
I guess that’s everyone’s point.
i’m sorry jonathan.
i think dean, that you are missing some things brought up by other posters. #1 is that as a cyclist i’m legally entitled to ride in the street, and #2 is that everyone pays for the roads. not just you and other car owners. the roads are not yours.
on a side note regarding deans theory of traffic: every afternoon on my way to work i bike across skidmore, over I-5. and every day cars are just SITTING on the interstate. i can’t figure it out. i mean, i don’t see any cyclists on I-5 so i don’t really understand what the hold up could be. maybe there are some folks on bikes up by jantzen beach and down by the rose quarter, on the interstate, out of my range of view. it’s the only thing i can figure…why else would traffic just stop?
Oh, Dean, you admit there is an argument about space, yet you don’t want to hear about it?
FYI, when I am riding, any violation I am stopped for is fined the same amount the infraction would have cost had I been in a car AND it will appear on my DMV record.
So what are we down to now, just registration? How much would you like me to pay to register my bike?
On topic? You are vastly legally misinformed, sir. Roads are for people, and the vehicles that they choose are always in a balancing act of suggestions, best practices, and laws. “Taxes” is off the table, a red-herring.
I’m tempted to see what’s it’s like when i toss a paint balloon at someone for dropping their cigarette butt on the ground. Sound similar to vigilatte policing of bikers? Where should we stop this discussion? Should I be happy when a smoker dies of lung cancer, laughing? How about when an overweight person has health problems? When a car accident happens and there is anyone to “blame”? Is it OK to laugh if nobody dies? One drifts into the innane chasing these debates.
Overall, nobody is “innocent”, nobody should advocate violence, nobody should enforce their pet-peeve with harassment, and nobody should laugh at injury. In the world today, the big “trouble” with bikers ranks pretty low on the issues one could be upset with. Perhaps we are too complacent, too hurried, to see the need for accepting all people, in all their modes of transport – and respect for the laws integrating them. Bikers are no exception, they’re just another segment of the same population as drivers.
Dean, you have simply fallen for an old shock jock trick: Draw a scenario and invite people to bicker about it, gathering comfort in numbers (not logic). Factual debate is dropped, preferred to aggro “jokey” radio. Please…it’s like listening to children complaining about petty issues of grade school. Except, at least there we have hope they will grow out of it.
I’m in Portland, it’s in the name of the freaking website. I don’t want bikers to have ID, I want them to have a liscense, and registration. I want them to do what we, drivers have to do to legally be on the road.
Jim, I think it’s funny to make fun of situations that would usually piss me off. Yes joking about accidentally running down a biker when they are breaking the law is totally funny to me. Joking about how smokers will die of cancer is funny to me, and so on.
Why can’t I respect all types of people with all forms of transpertation? Because you people on bikes are totally in the way half the time doing whatever you want. My first thought is to run you over. That doesn’t mean I would do it, it’s just funny to think about.
Well Dean, Portland is the name on the website, so I must have been magically transported to Portland suddenly. The net is bigger than Portland. I live in LA. If you want bikers to have a specific license and registration, then you need to learn how to get it on a ballot for the public to decide on. I want a toilet made of solid gold, but its just not gonna happen unless i find a way to get one. If you don’t try to change things that you don’t like, then you can’t complain about it. Stop complaining and get it on a ballot.
I have no problem “almost” running down bikers, but you guys need to quit your whining when drivers make fun of running you over.
You have anger management issues there Dean. Someone legally in your lane is legal. If you want to mow them down, you clearly have issues. I don’t mow people down for walking in the street after the green light has changed and they haven’t made it across completely yet. I don’t find it funny or think about doing it like you would.
Your idea of breaking the law seems distorted. It seems to you any cyclist in the road is breaking the law.
No, my brother rides his bike to work every day so I don’t have anything against bikers. I just don’t want to go 15 to 20 MPH behind some dumb ass that is hogging the lane and impeding my lane.
Yes, I have a fun sense of humor, but no I don’t have issues.
So how much humor will you have if some listener from this show does something (throws something, etc) to your brother. Or if your brother gets run over by someone, and you hear the other party laugh, joke, or say he was in my lane. Would it be funny if in a strange twist you yourself happened to run over your brother on his bike. Or when its close to home, its not funny or acceptable then only.
Dean,
I think you may be generalizing all bikers in the same mistake that bikers sometimes do with drivers.
Just because someone chose to ride doesn’t erase their invidiual identity. There are indeed crazy bikers and drivers, callous and reckless.
Does this mean I deserve getting shot by a paintball gun when riding because an under-educated driver equates me with any and all bikers around town? Nope.
This is the fallacy of transport: The the little boxes with people inside are still individuals, and folks on bikes are still individuals. Every situation is different, by getting angry at “the demographic” you smear the issues to the point of nullifying it.
Every group is guilty of it, including the SHIFT mailing list, for example. There too it is usually pandering to the audience. However, please keep in mind that from one biker to the next (regardless of dress), there is a new situation.
With that, be SURE to read up on OR law regarding cycling in lanes. It may surprise you, and you may be shocked by the number of people advocating even *more* cycling leeway on the roads. Like rolling stop signs, cutting past cars at a light, taking the lane, riding diagonally across an intersections, etc. Check it out, and why things have evolved this way. You will surely have an epiphany, if your posts indicate your education about it currently.
Dean –
1. Most cyclists also own a car. When cyclists own a car and don’t use it, they are subsidizing the roads.
2. Chucking things at people is wrong, period. It can also be construed as assault under most states’ statutes.
3. If it’s funny to think about assaulting someone with your vehicle, or others doing the same – seek professional counseling. You have fallen victim to the American glorification of violence as a solution, and you need help. Violence is not funny. Violence is not legal.
4. Cars need to learn to share the road with cyclists. Cars share the road with horse-drawn vehicles just fine. A horse-drawn carriage is slower than a bicycle and frequently found downtown. I don’t see people saying that hitting them is funny. Cops in Portland sometimes ride horses, and they frequently break traffic laws. I don’t see anyone advocating hitting a cop on a horse with their cars, or thinking that THAT’s funny.
5. Most downtown cyclists are as fast as or faster than cars when downtown – especially the bike messengers. I’m 240 pounds and I can out-accelerate cars downtown. The downtown lights are timed for 15mph – well within the range of cyclists. The problem downtown is that there is very little space to squeeze all those cars and cyclists into. If the 6,000 or so cyclists who commute downtown in the morning (some say more) all drove cars, that would make the situation A LOT worse. If we could get some of the 40,000+ cars that commute downtown each morning to shift to bikes, the situation would get a lot better in terms of speed and parking – so long as everyone learns to share the road.
6. For the record, a lot of us on this site are just commuters, not “hard core cyclists”. Not all of us are Chunkers, or Zoobombers, or members of PUMP, Shift! or the BTA.
Flame war! Flame war!!
Dean, stop being an ass. You’re proving the point of everyone who regularly reads this site. That point is that car drivers are selfish and self-absorbed, and when presented with a sticky situation, will always act like a jackass. Way to go.
One more note: How do you think drivers would react if I started carrying D-cell batteries on my bike and throwing them at the cars that try to run me over? Violence only escalates violence. We not only shouldn’t give into those urges, we should also discourage violence as a solution whenever possible.
Here’s a problem Dean: you keep mentioning that you’re annoyed with bicyclists clogging the streets of downtown Portland – going too slow. You say you don’t want to be stuck going 15 to 20 mph. Well, the speed limit downtown is only 12 mph. When I’m riding my bike downtown it’s the cars slowing me down. There are too many of them and they are in my way and in each other’s way.
Plus, you, like most other anti-bike folks, seem to ignore arguments that disprove your opinions. You seem to find it easier to stick your fingers in your ears and yell “nah nah nah nah” when someone points out that bicyclists do pay for their fair share of the road, or how about Chris’ post pointing out that traffic jams on the interstate are caused by the number of cars on the road, not by anyone else? You seem to ignore these points.
I also find it interesting how you keep contradicting yourself. “my brother rides his bike to work every day so I don’t have anything against bikers”, but in the next sentence call bicyclist dumb asses. I’d say that would mean you do have something against bicyclist. or in your earlier post when you state “I have friends that ride their bike to work, and I tell them that they are stupid, and deserve anything that may happen to them…God forbid.” They deserve anything that would happen to them, but “god forbid” it should actually happen…huh? You go through some amazing mental gymnastics to keep blindly having your point of view without confronting the facts.
*A sentence here has been edited. I repeat, I will not tolerate antagonism. Please resist the temptation to call people names…it adds nothing of value whatsoever to the conversation.*
Well, D-Cell batteries are pretty expensive these days, and if you are in the right and the car almost runs you over I say go for it. I am not talking about how funny it is to run over people on bikes. I am talking about these bikers that don’t follow any rules, and create accidents or near accidents. I don’t feel bad when they get injured. As bike riders, I would think that you would be upset at these other bikers that tarnish the rest of you.
What the living hell is a flame war? Is that some gay thing?
I’m going on lunch, but I will be back on in a bit. 🙂
And by throwing the battery at the car, it will only make things worse. They will take out further aggression on other cyclist. If you have a problem with cyclists, you need to handle it legally and through channels that are appropriate. Just as a cyclist would do also. I don tell cyclist doing things in the wrong that they are doing so. I know others do too.
Why don’t you try telling other cagers like the Playhouse people that what they do is wrong instead of continually carrying on.
Dean,
Enough already, please. You’ve made your points. Let’s try and keep these comments useful to everyone.
And in response to your quote:
“As bike riders, I would think that you would be upset at these other bikers that tarnish the rest of you.”
We are. This has been a topic of frequent discussion on this site. The bike community works very hard to educate cyclists to be responsible road users. I only hope that motorists feel the same obligation to educate other motorists.
Flame war is a age-old term for “verbal bickering” – using degrading into name-calling and threats.
I’d much rather think of this as an education process. We’re here to help you Dean – help you understand how seriously deadly drivers are to bikers, and thus how sensitive we are to waves of public sentiment.
The positives far outweigh the negatives when biking, almost all the time. I’d love you to help champion biking as best option for transportation, even if you don’t bike yourself. Think of it as “less cars on the road” in front of you.
I don’t live in Portland and have never heard the Playhouse, but it sound slike shock jock radio, being outrageous to get ratings…
IMO, ignore the DJ and the show and he will move on to another interest group for baiting and taunting…
As much of a biker as I am, and as pro-biking as I am, I have to say the expressions of outrage and calls for others to defend the biking community (call the oregonian and sam Adams?) make the biking community seem humorless and thin skinned…
calm down, ingore the loonies and stay safe…
Eric – that was exactly my point in the post. Violence begets further violence, usually escalated.
Dean – I *am* upset at bikers that make things difficult for me by not following the rules of the road. I’ve made a number of comments in the past to that effect, as have others on this site. Unfortunately, I can’t control the actions of others, I can only control my own, and occasionally I’m able to ask others to obey the laws. Motorists by far are less attentive than cyclists. Cyclists have to keep a constant watch for road debris and hazards that cars may not even see.
Oh, and to the upthread post about the guy complaining about the StP’ers – I think I saw that guy – he might have been the one honking every 10 seconds while driving in the right lane when cyclists 100 yards or more ahead of him were edging into the lane to pass slower cyclists – totally legal under ORS814.430. The lane left of him was clear and he could have gotten over at any time, but he chose not to. It was very different from Washington, where the motorists seemed to have more respect and tolerance for the cyclists.