Drivers in high-speed car chase almost hit man walking across Rosa Parks Way (Video)

Funny, I think Conservatives feel the same way about Progressives – that they tend to ignore statistics and facts in favor of feelings.

If you looked at the number of black people killed by police in Portland over the last few years, it does not really match with the local Progressive narrative.

http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html

Conservatives think a lot of crazy things like QAnon and the like so I’m not particulary worried that conservatives are projecting their anti-science and anti-evidence based approach to the world onto normal people.

If you looked at the number of black people killed by police in Portland over the last few years, it does not really match with the local Progressive narrative.

I’m going to guess that you mean “does not really match the narrative” you mean “does not match what Lars Larson says the narrative is”

I’ve had good experiences with the police. Gotten a few stolen cars back to people.

You sound like the mirror image of the racists ranting about Muslims — amplify the worst examples as not only being representative of, but actually being what you hate.

That’s a pretty massive reach and I get it, you can’t actually defend cops so you have to pretend disliking them is akin to racism.

Coming up with conclusions and then cherry picking info is the exact opposite of logic so I won’t waste time going down that road with you

Please, I’ve done so much reading on the police. I can’t condense dozens of books and hundreds of articles and lectures into a bikeportland comment. You are just projecting your own lack of knowledge on the subject. You want to support cops no matter what and you look for information that supports your beliefs and when presented with evidence that is contrary to your beliefs you call it “cherry picking”.

Coopting a legit movement was a nice touch.

I’m confused on which movement I co-opted bro bro? I know that you are new to this subject but police abolitionist existed long before BLM.

You should do some reading. I know its uncomfortable to have your beliefs as a white privileged man challenged, but if you put yourself out there you might find the truth.

> Sure, the over the top anticop rhetoric and violence in Portland did more to help the GOP hold onto the Senate than anything else.

How did you come to that conclusion? Do you have anything to back that up?

I doubt Portland politics played very little into Senate races. Was it used by Fox to create a narrative and help stir unrest? Sure. But it sure didn’t work to keep DJT elected and that’s where we probably would have seen it play out the most. Also, I am sure you know this, but the Senate is still in play. Let’s not count the chickens before they hatch.

When I hear ACAB, I hear this – “Something is very, very wrong in American police culture. This is why the saying “ACAB” — or “All cops are b*****ds” — has become a popular rallying cry. It doesn’t actually mean every single cop is a bad cop, just like saying Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean white lives don’t. “ACAB” means every single police officer is complicit in a system that actively devalues the lives of people of color. Bad cops are encouraged in their harm by the silence of the ones who see themselves as “good.” The issue isn’t “a few bad apples”; it’s a tree that is rotting from the inside out, spreading its poison.”

When I hear and see arguments like yours, I feel like you aren’t really a systems thinker or that you are a person who privileged and actively benefits from the system.

You sure come off like you have it all figured it out, bro.

The problem with statements like ACAB is that when I hear them, I hear anti-police bigotry rather than “something is very, very wrong in American police culture”, a statement I agree with. When ACAB comes out of your mouth or spray can, you invite argument rather than a search for solution.

I mentioned elsewhere there is a problem with sloganeering, and this is it. You may feel cool saying it, but it makes finding a solution, which will require some degree of societal consensus, much more difficult.

@HK – yes, I know that’s what you hear, that’s why I explained it to you. You should spend more time listening and digging in. Not everything has to be catered to your delicate sensibilities.

Again, sloganeering is very effective and is neither good nor bad. I don’t think ACAB is a great slogan nor is defund the police. All that being said, there absolutely does need to be an effective slogan to talk about this topic effectively and advertise it at a very base/primitive level. What do you suggest people do? Start rambling big long diatribes in a culture where the president is doing policy through twitter? Seems pretty ineffective to me.

Ok, so now I now that when you say “All Cops Are Bastards”, what you really mean is a much more thoughtful and nuanced commentary on the state of modern American policing, and the need for well-considered reform.

But what about everyone else?

@HK – What about everyone else? I can’t speak for them. The point here is that _you_ now have a better understanding of what is meant by it, not what each individual means by it. If you want to know what it means to them, ask them! My point here is that you should be listening and trying to understand instead of just writing things off as “sloganeering”.

Do you put as much skepticism into people crying “freedom” as you do people saying ACAB? I really hope you do. When someone explained what freedom means to them, did you say “but what about everyone else?”

I do listen, and now I know that you do not mean what you say in this instance; but in the absence of other information, I have to assume others do. I can’t really ask everyone to explain themselves, and frankly my little kitty brain has difficulty keeping track of who means what when they say something else.

Since you seem to think me some sort of right-wing shill, for what it’s worth, on most issues I’m as far to the left as one can go while still retaining contact with reality.

And yes, I do regard those descending on Salem in recent weeks as complete loons, and if they were here arguing I just didn’t understand that their slogans didn’t mean what they said, I’d be skeptical and critical of that too. Perhaps more so because I disagree with their fundamental message, whereas I agree with what you claim to really mean when you say ACAB.

I don’t think of you as a right-wing shill, I think of you as a person who does more talking than listening; someone who wants to be “right”. I was simply using the right-wing example as a counter-point to how ideas are seen and questioned.

The riots in Portland were heavily covered out here in bucolic North Carolina on a daily basis. Trump and Senator Tillis narrowly won this swing state, even though our Democratic governor actually gained many votes on his reelection.

When I hear ACAB, I hear this – “Something is very, very wrong in American police culture. This is why the saying “ACAB” — or “All cops are b*****ds” — has become a popular rallying cry. It doesn’t actually mean every single cop is a bad cop, just like saying Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean white lives don’t. “ACAB” means every single police officer is complicit in a system that actively devalues the lives of people of color.

If your slogans have to be explained, they’re bad slogans.

Black Lives Matter doesn’t need to be explained. Taking umbrage at it requires twisting intent reading meaning into it that’s not there to begin with.

Aside from being untrue on its face, ACAB literally means nothing to people who aren’t plugged into the activist community. Making it sound reasonable requires converting the words into something they don’t see.

Are you seriously trying to suggest to me that a huge chunk of the people who repeat ACAB *don’t* mean it literally? Did you actually go to the protests? Except at the beginning, they had practically nothing to do with racism — the white kids quickly made it about themselves.

Actually if the slogan has to be “explained” the side using it has already lost.

The moral is to the physical as 10 to 1. When ACAB is the slogan, the moral high ground has already been lost, and the outcome will not necessarily turn to their advantage.

It’s funny that you say that “Black lives matter” doesn’t have to be explained when there is a whole culture says “All lives matter” who obviously don’t understand it and I have had to explain it to many people.

I am definitely suggesting a huge chunk of people who say ACAB mean it through the lens of systems thinking. I did go to protests. I, in fact, live a few blocks away from where many protests happened. I agree, they weren’t completely focused on racism, but that is definitely a huge component of the what they were about.

Did you go to any of the protests? It was focused on police violence; the police violence was happening against all races there.

YES, thank you HK. People, please find evidence and take a few minutes to back your argument with facts. I thought I might get a reprieve from this crazy holiday uncle talk with covid and all.

No!
“I will defend when my side does it because I can’t admit I’m wrong and then engage in whataboutism.” – Pretty much each side.

The irony of you saying this isn’t lost on me.

What is simplistic thinking? Why is it bad? I would argue that simple ideas are often the best ideas.

Sloganeering also isn’t bad in and of itself. What’s the slogan? What are they people trying to do? It’s a very useful thing and nothing is inherently bad about it.

Blanket attacks are usually bad, stereotyping is a mixed bag. The difference here is that these both imply not listening to the other side.

Middle of the road guy – it’s funny that you say “I will defend when my side does…” and when you attack me for something I never said or did.

I honestly don’t think ACAB is simplistic, but I do think your understanding of it is. I don’t think it is a great slogan, just like I don’t necessarily think “defund the police” is the best slogan. I think people saying “Freedom” and then doing whatever they want while completely stomping on others’ rights and beliefs is a bit simplistic.