Lance Armstrong open thread

It’s complicated. A man can be both a hero and a villain.

Lance is an inspiration to millions, and his fight against cancer and subsequent foundation work both deserve high praise.

At the same time, he competed in an era where many doped and cheated their way to the top. And, if the presently-concealed testimony is to be believed, so did Lance.

I’m hopeful this can help close the book on a darker era of cycling and open the door to bright stars who presently race and can inspire a new generation of love for the sport.

Until the level of involvement of team owners, officials, and anyone else is revealed we cannot trust the sport. Maybe this is the biggest step yet towards cleaning up cycling. Maybe it’s not.

If he didn’t, he’s right… this has been a colossal witch hunt. People have been lying for political reasons, money, or whatever. Its a combination of all thats bad about humanity, and a weird need to tear down our heroes.

If he did, then he’s just another user who calculated risks and rewards in order to secure himself an undeserved place in history. Was Livestrong a way to assuage his guilt? A sad betrayal of trust that may not be given to an athlete (especially a cyclist) for many many years.

I have no idea which is true, and I don’t ever expect to. I’m not losing sleep over it. Im much less of a fan of professional cycling than I am a cyclist.

Not really relevant to me. I bike for utility and fun. Racing/sport doesn’t interest me, and I don’t care about Lance any more than I do LeBron.

It’s important to highlight that giving up the fight is not the same as admitting guilt, and he is still maintaining his innocence. We still don’t know the truth, and now we likely never will, and maybe now the media frenzy can finally fade out. All we know is that he has prioritized his quality of life over continuing the fight to keep his official titles.

I still don’t think we’ve seen any smoking gun evidence. The most we have is some samples from a couple years ago are consistent with EPO… so why didn’t anyone ban him at the time? In the tour, it does not take 3 years to decide someone took a drug.

The politics smell fishy to me even though we know cycle racing is far from a clean sport.

I would say the best take away from this is: OBRA and local racing is awesome.

Forget the national and international heros we have some local heros right here and who knows one of them could be you.

Cyclocross season is coming up which is a great opportunity to spectate and see real people race and maybe get in there and mix some of the mud up yourself.

Bike racing does not suck!

like Nick I don’t follow sports so I don’t really care about his titles… he served his purpose of entertaining the masses and now it’s over… just like every other athlete… time to see what he does for the world now that he’s got more free time…

it looks like he’s never failed a drug test, although some of his tests were suspicious… so it seems like it’s a lot of hearsay and finger pointing that caused the scandal and now it’s history…

move along, nothing to see here…

The process stinks. There was a federal investigation with no indictment and no prosecution. That process has some integrity. Now we just have a bunch of tainted witnesses with motives of their own, and no objective evidence. The accused has the opportunity to prove his innocence, but who can do that? You don’t have to embrace Lance’s denials as truth to find the whole process objectionable.

I did not ride the tour but I did not fail any drug tests and I did not admit doing or not doing drugs ever. Does this mean that I get the jersey as it moves down the ranks?

Actually, it’s what made cycling boring. The races have become less predictable and more interesting now that they actually seem to have beaten the doping back to a dull roar. It’s a human drama again, instead of a covert battle of doctors.

Lance did what he had to do after staring death in the eye and realizing his susceptibility to a shorter than normal life because of cancer. Putting it all on the line when you’ve got nothing left to lose is how he chose to go out in this world. Have a death sentence, might as well go hard, and hey if he can help cancer patients along the way, good for him.

I find the whole thing sad. I still respect the man for overcoming everything he has. The whole race community is in a shambles from all of the witch hunting. Time to move on and enjoy retirement and continue to help people.

I actually expected this, but I still feel saddened somewhat. I am an avid fan of professional cycling. I agree with what Jonathan Vaughters said in his NY Times “admission”, that we need to remove the incentive/pressure to dope so that the young riders coming up don’t have to face that choice in their professional careers. But there is also much more revelation to come out of this event, if you will, because many more have been involved. I don’t think of this as an end but more of a beginning to the next phase of cleaning up the sport, which will still nonetheless motivate and challenge me and enrich my life on many levels. I’m going out for a nice long ride tomorrow.

Armstrong played the game and beat the entire grand tour pro cycling industry at it. It’s the professional grand tour cycling industry, who’s the true culprit here, in compelling racers indirectly, to submit to illegal performance enhancements.

So now, the industry wants his medals back for ‘cheating’? Take them. Good riddance to tokens of the money-making leviathan the industry has become.

I might give credence to some of the theories that he used illegal performance enhancements and with the help of experts, managed to devise a strategy to test clean, time after time, but performance enhancement is the game.

It would be great if all grand tour pro cyclists trained and competed simply on wholesome, nutritional, well balanced meals. In future, will grand tour pro cycling make this regime the rule, and let them do that? It’s doubtful.

I have pretty much lost interest in the Armstrong drama at this point. I’d rather pay attention to current pro racing events. In fact, there’s a world-class stage race in Colorado going on right now…

I’m with Allan on this. I have serious doubts about the legitimacy of the process. What Armstrong is refusing to do is go into arbitration–because that would mean he has to agree to the outcome (whatever it is) and arbitration doesn’t uphold the same standard of proof as a real trial. This is like agreeing to go on “The People’s Court”–you agree that whatever Wopner decides is final. I wouldn’t agree to that if I were Lance–if they had real evidence of his doping, they should produce it. If this is based on other dopers pointing fingers, I remain skeptical. I am still impressed with what Armstrong did (no other rider–doping or not has done what he has, and I doubt he was using some unique version of dope if he was using it at all).

I am curious how can the US anti-doping agency take away victories that were won in France? That seem odd.

I just can’t see making this much fuss about one guy. He won some races, maybe he doped, probably they all did… [yawn]… “Hmm I wonder if there are any new funny cat videos.”

The whole thing is preachy as heck, sanctimonious, overwrought, hyped-up, and riddled-through with the stench of money and corruption… talking about the USADA here. Not that I’m on Lance’s “side” either per se. I basically just don’t care about racing. You’ll note that this renders me immune to any neuroses or undue agitations regarding either Armstrong’s supposed heroism (heroic? his cancer work is way more heroic and worthwhile than anything he did in the saddle… and he can fully continue that) or his supposedly heinous crimes against humanity (What is Obama up to right now? Assassinating people with drone planes without due process? Remember the “kill list”? Or was that too far in the past?)

People devoting undue attention to something is what creates all the “mojo” for a guy like Armstrong. And mojo attracts the kind of people who specialize in stealing mojo. It’s sad that America now has more of the latter than the former, but anyway. Keep calm, carry on.

If he lied, well that sucks. If he didn’t, well that sucks, too (for his titles, legacy, et al). But if the majority of racing fans believe (and I DO think they do) that many of the top tier racers enhance their performance one way or another, it leaves me with a giant “meh” reaction. If the best are doping, then they are in a weird way on a level.
I’ve become apathetic over the whole thing and simply enjoy the racing I’m able to see regardless. If it’s a good, close race- awesome! If most of them are doping- oh well, it was still a tight race with good team tactics, great breakaways, etc. Sure, I’d prefer NOBODY doped, but does anyone really expect for everyone to comply?!

Doping methods are sophisticated and so is the science. It’s a battle to the core.

This whole affair points to the need to improve the testing of athletes. Lance’s main line of defense was that he’d “never tested positive.” Well, big whoop. You can’t test for substances that you aren’t aware of, and existing tests can be beaten, as Lance has shown us. And, when all else fails, get a back-dated dr’s perscription (1999 TdF steroids positive).

Lance is a cheat, a fraud, and a liar. So were/are many other cyclists. But to turn a blind eye and ignore his misdeeds is not a solution to the problem. I am glad that many of his former teammates and associates have finally stepped forward and brought all of the dirt out into the sunlight. Hopefully, young cyclists will see the results of cheating and avoid the temptation.

Greg LeMond, the only US Tour champion, has been vindicated.

I could’ve entered the Tour, only to finish last at the time, but win now, having never done enhancing drugs. Perhaps there will be two categories for races: drug-free and drug-doer.

I just long for the days when cyclists lit up cigarettes when riding the Tour de France!!

Lots of good points here.

I have met Lance and am friends (personal/professional) with his oncologist. The dude is a huge **insult deleted** on a personal level and I’ll be happy never to have to talk to him again. That said, he’s done an amazing amount of fund-raising and consciousness raising for young adults with cancer, and…jerk or not, that’s pretty sweet.

But, doping or not, he was at the top of his game…the entire game actually…for those 7 years. It’s not like the next 10 guys below him in the peloton weren’t just as juiced as he was (or wasn’t…I agree the evidence for doping is weak, but not non-existent). The process is complete bull***t and, as I heard pointed out on NPR this morning, the USADA has a 97% “conviction” record. It’s a kangaroo court no matter how you look at it, so cutting his losses and moving on was a pretty wise move.

Finally, I don’t follow bike racing either, but I understand that it (and this particular news story) will shape the way in which average ‘merkins view all cyclists, so just putting our noses in the air and saying “I don’t race or watch racing so why should I care” is remarkably short-sighted.

Just when I thought it was safe to browse the bicycle section at Powell’s…the books by Lance, about Lance, for Lance, beginning to dry up….but noooooo! There will now be yellow books forever. This will be JFK, 911, a forevermore mystery conspiracy (at least on the bicycle bookshelf). Sigh.

Reading the article as posted on the main page, I thought that Armstrong must have died. I’m relieved that this wasn’t the case, but that is probably as far as I will emote.

As far as I can see and/or am aware, the USADA doesn’t have boundaries. Without boundaries everything is a legal disaster only benefiting lawyers. If Lance had ridden for a foreign team could the USADA have touched him? Do we even know? Doping is cheating, but Lance, drugs or not, is right about the USADA: they are limitless in what they can do and it is a witch hunt. No one wins here and the USADA comes off as the least respected party (my opinion). Test during races, destroy samples 12 months later, and that’s it. Further, the USADA should be a fact finding organziation and have no grounds to imply or bluntly pass down punishment. My gut says, the USADA stepped in shit and Lance’s lawyers laid it all over their lawn. The line between hero and villain is too blurred. Like it or not: You can’t truly rewrite history. You can only fuck with our heads. Same with baseball.

Everyone on the Tour was doping. He just rode faster than the other dopers.

its not a drug thing its a fraud thing. lance armstrong won large monetary awards and misrepresented himself to advertisers. doping by professional athletes is fraud for monetary gain. jail time and massive fines would be entirely appropriate.

I cheated in every class I took in high school. I hope Tygart doesn’t take my diploma away.

Lance Armstrong should not have doped, but, he was still better than all the other ones who were also doping. I wish him well.

Lance was railroaded. I don’t believe for a minute he was clean, but it was never proven. The USADA should put up or shut up, IMHO. Who are they to strip him of his TDF titles?

I participated in this years Honu 1/2 Ironman in Hawaii and witnessed Lance’s athletic ability’s first hand. In the pre-race meeting Lance gave the reasons for wanting to compete in the Ironman series. It was simply for the love of the sport, and wanting to stay competitive. He won that race outright, beating all the seasoned pro’s that have dominated Ironman races for the last couple of years. Amazing focus and competitiveness, and an amazing athlete. If it was a level playing field, with no one doping in the tour back in the day, I think Lance would still be on top.

In an NPR interview today,Travis Tygart, the CEO of the USADA, artfully dodged the question of what “physical evidence” of doping the USADA had against Armstrong. Without admitting that the USADA has nothing from the years of Armstrong’s TdF wins, he said that tests from 2009 and 2010 were consistent with Armstrong having received blood transfusions. When asked for the names of those ready to testify against Armstrong, he refused, citing ongoing investigations. No wonder Armstrong threw in the towel. Clearly the deck was stacked against him by Tygart and the USADA – with secret witnesses, scant physical evidence, and their own rules and arbitration panels, the USADA version of due process makes the Guantanamo trials look Fair and Balanced in comparison.

but the people who build their lives around racing bicycles share almost nothing with the people who use ordinary bicycles for transportation.

Except that their time in the saddle has fed back into the materials development and manufacturing process for bikes for decades, as well as designs those of us who ride for sportive recreation appreciate.

Maybe there’s a difference between people who ride from point A to point B, and those of us who find the longest/steepest possible route we can fit into the time we have to get to point B? 🙂