**See results and a statement about this morning’s enforcement mission from Captain Larry O’Dea below**
Officers from the Portland Police Bureau Traffic Division were out in force this morning in the Ladds Circle area of Southeast Portland.
This area, which is a traffic circle ringed by streets with stop signs, is a busy bikeway where Police have focused enforcement efforts in the past.
But unlike past enforcement actions, this morning’s effort was an “educational mission” where officers only gave warnings and no actual citations were issued. Commenters have reported that up to 10 motorcycle officers were on the scene and they were told this week will be warnings and next week tickets will be written (carrying a $242 fine).
**
Traffic Division Captain Larry O’Dea has just released results and a statement from this morning’s “educational mission” (emphasis mine):
“Due to numerous neighborhood complaints of traffic safety concerns, the Traffic Division conducted an educational mission from 0730-0830 hours this morning in Ladd’s Addition. Violators, primarily those who ran the stop signs cold, were stopped and warned, not cited, and the neighbors concerns were discussed with them, as well as recent injury accidents that occurred for failing to stop at traffic control devices. Our goal is to address neighborhood concerns and improve safety and compliance.
This is one part of our plan in working with PDOT and the neighborhood association to improve livability and we all will be meeting with the neighbors in the near future in our continuing joint efforts. Numerous neighbors thanked officers for addressing their concerns during the mission.
The following stops resulted:
Pedestrians – 0 stops
Motor vehicles – 7 stops / 7 warnings & 1 DWS citation
Bicycle Operators – 60 stops / 60 warnings no citation“
***
Stop sign enforcement at Ladds has long been a touchy issue. Residents want more people to stop before entering the circle, some people feel there are other areas (and issues) that should be the focus of police resources, and others feel like the stop signs should be yields.
The issue last came to a boil in April of last year. After that enforcement action, the idea of turning the stop signs into yield signs came up. In response to numerous emails and phone calls, a PDOT traffic engineer issued a statement saying that a larger solution is needed.
That April 2007 enforcement action resulted in 59 citations: 47 for “bicycle moving violations”, 3 for “bicycle equipment violations” and 9 for “motor vehicle violations.”
According to someone at PDOT who I spoke with this morning, today’s enforcement action is the start of a larger effort to finally approach a real, lasting solution at Ladds Circle that will allow for the safe, efficient and comfortable flow of traffic.
In the coming weeks, representatives from the adjacent neighborhood, Traffic Division leadership, and PDOT traffic engineers will sit down and work toward a more permanent solution.
In the meantime, the Police Bureau will increase enforcement at this intersection until a higher rate of compliance is seen.
[Editor’s note: I have changed the title from Police target Ladds for enforcement (again), to Police target Ladds for education mission. I did this to communicate that today’s mission was not about writing tickets, but more about improving safety and trying to raise awareness about this intersection. The new leadership at the Traffic Division (Captain O’Dea and Lt. Parman) have been doing great work to extend an olive branch to people who ride bikes and this is part of that effort. I look forward to reporting more about their efforts in the coming weeks.]
Thanks for reading.
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That\’s funny, I rolled right through the place this morning and didn\’t see anything.
What a waste of money and time.
Any chance that commuters can sit in on these discussions? I go through this intersection every day and have been the unfortunate recipient of one of those $242 tickets. When I went through Ladd\’s this morning there were a ton of cops, and I saw at least five of them giving warnings. I\’m just glad that all those bikers weren\’t getting tickets!
I think that the fact that they stopped 60 bikers in 60 minutes really speaks to the fact that this is an infrastructure issue.
@Torfinn
Funny you broke the law or something else?
We\’re told over and over again that bicyclists are endangering pedestrians by running the stop signs around Ladd\’s Circle. I\’ve witnessed it and it\’s not pretty. There are definitely some clueless, selfish jerks out there on two wheels. Failure to yield to a pedestrian should definitely get you a serious ticket. Here\’s the thing, though: if pedestrian endangerment is really the problem, why are the stings on stop signs and not crosswalks? Think about it: running stop signs in Ladd\’s is only half the problem. Once you\’re in the circle you have to exit it across a crosswalk and if there are pedestrians in that crosswalk you are required by law to stop and stay stopped just as you\’re required to stop at those stop signs. So why don\’t you ever hear about Ladd\’s residents angry that cyclists EXITing the circle and failing to grant peds right of way?
If the PPB wants people to take these complaints and the traffic division seriously, they should make these crosswalk stings. They should do the thing where they have a decoy crossing the street and bust those who don\’t stop (entering OR exiting the circle). That way they\’d really be getting the cyclists who are a problem. Stop signs are safe but illegal to run, but who\’s going to say, \”it\’s perfectly safe to blow past pedestrians in the crosswalk!\” when they\’re stopped? I can think of a few people, but they\’re jerks and they should definitely get tickets. C\’mon PPB. Tackle the real issue here. I dare ya.
Cue the cyclists complaining about getting ticketed for breaking the law…
Here is solution to avoid tickets:
Follow the law.
Here is a solution to changing the law if you don\’t like it:
Work with the people that have power to change the laws.
Dis-obeying laws is a way to show your disagreement with the law that will result in upsetting other road users, and sometimes a pricey ticket.
What else is there to argue here?
I\’ve only ridden through this area once (found it incredibly pleasant), but I noticed a few things about the traffic circle.
#1 – As mentioned above exiting the circle is still an issue for pedestrians and people need to travel this area slowly and be ready to stop. Lots of young children.
#2 – Pedestrians wait on these weird divisions at some of the entry points and you can\’t tell what they hell they\’re going to do. When I went through, there were two kids looking like they were going to cross, while their parents were looking in the other direction trying to get the attention of a third parent-child duo. I couldn\’t tell what the hell was going to happen.
#3 – Americans have no idea how to properly use traffic circles. People don\’t properly yield and/or go the wrong way to make a quicker left hand dturn.
#4 – Americans do not know how to properly design a traffic circle. These stop signs should be yields and the vegetation on the inner round should be cut down (at least along the perimeter) to open up the visibility a little bit. Although at the speeds people should be going through this area the visibility is fine.
Anyways, turn this stop signs to yields. Add some more speed bumps to slow traffic down. Paint better crosswalks to clearly identify pedestrian right-of-way. Stop wasting time and money enforcing this area.
Funny, I drove through there this mnorning and saw nothing. But I guess I was too early. I pass through twice a day and can not tell you the last time I saw a bike stop at the circle other than mine (although I do not always stop – I do most of the time, really!)
Bikes entering the circle without stopping ar ea real safety issue on the circle given the close proximity of teh entering streets. Especially Harrison, with Elliott just to the right of it, if bicyclists enter at a high speed. I\’ve had to stop after pulling out from that stop sign due to bicycles entering from Harrison at a relatively high speed, blowing the stop sign.
Having written all of this, I think the circle as is works fairly well but it is certainly a spot where all users are well served by being very careful.
Were any of the recent injury accidents in Ladd\’s Addition? No they were not…in fact you can\’t find any info on injury accidents involving a cyclist at the ladd\’s circle because it is probably the safest place in terms of injuries per trip in the whole city. The reason for that probably has a lot to do with that circle having a far higher bicycle mode share than nearly any other intersection in the city. Why can\’t the police focus their efforts in places that have seen an injury accident sometime in the last 10 years? It is great to respond to citizen complaints, but the complaints are not borne out by facts and at this point should be ignored.
Bjorn
I\’m glad just warnings were issued. But I also have to say that in all the times I have been through Ladds I have NEVER seen congestion and never seen bikes impede traffic. I\’m really curious what the basis is for the \”numerous neighborhood complaints of traffic safety concerns.\” Is there really a safety concern or is it just some folks who don\’t like the fact that the cyclist don\’t stop at the stop signs? (which should be yield signs anyway.) Is there a problem that I just have never seen?
Wow. 2 roundabout (traffic-circle) discussions on my 2 favorite websites on the same day.
Leave it to the americans to take a fantastic, efficient, and low-cost traffic control device (the roundabout) and turn it into a gummed up contrived nightmare simply by the addition of stop signs. Of course the residents probably dont\’ see that intersection as a roundabout, more as a rose garden surrounded by a giant confusing 8 street intersection.
as I said elsewhere…
A complete stop (unnecessary and oft-ignored) is inefficient, hard on the vehicle, gas mileage, patience and additionally a nice handy way for the insurance companies and their lackeys (the gov\’t) to reach into your pocket one more time via fines and the resulting increased premiums.
I\’d like to see more roundabouts and more yield signs, certainly more right turn permitted without stopping, signs. They may be confusing to some, but I say requiring road users to demonstrate a higher level of comptence as the price of admission to the game can only be a good thing.
I live in Ladd\’s and I think there are a few problems. The first being that out of the five circles, only the largest one, the one in the middle has stop signs. The rest are just yield as they all should be. Secondly, I get the feeling from talking to neighbors that it is a very few vocal group complaining. Most of the neighborhood loves that there is more cycling traffic than car traffic and realizes that the stop signs are just silly.
I should note that I do stop at the stop signs simply because I see motorcycle cops in there about once a week and I dont want a ticket.
what is a \”bicycle equipment violation\”?
I gotta say the stops at Ladd used to bug me a lot, as did the enforcement actions. The more I ride through there, the more sympathetic I am to the residents and the more irritated I get with my fellow cyclists. It doesn\’t matter that if the stop seems unnecessary or counter intuitive, it\’s there. The people in the neighborhood obviously want them there, and respecting that is the least we can do in exchange for using their quiet neighborhood streets as a bike freeway every morning.
I got one those warnings this morning. This intersection is on my daily commute, and I went through it the same way as always: brake a bit, look for traffic (none, car or bike or pedestrian), and roll right in. So, no I didn\’t stop, but I approached and entered safely. The Officer was pretty decent about the whole thing. He told me they weren\’t look for a full foot-down stop, but a serious reduction in speed, looking both ways, etc. I was also told an actual ticket would cost $280!!! Yikes.
What gets me is that this roundabout has stop signs instead of yields. Isn\’t that the whole point of a traffic circle? And as noted above, the other two Ladd \”circles\” (or, diamonds whatever) have yield signs.
I used to live in ladd\’s about 1/2 time and requested the removal of the stop signs. The city says they don\’t have the money to fund the study necessary to get them out, or the slight changes to the approaches so vehicles would enter at an angle rather than straight on. Too bad they don\’t count money they could save on unnecessary motorcycle patrols. I don\’t agree that most residents want them, this is much more a case of a couple vocal people screaming really loud.
It doesn\’t matter that if the stop seems unnecessary or counter intuitive, it\’s there.
Actually, it matters in the respect that this morning\’s activity is resounding proof that previous enforcement actions have accomplished nothing long-term. The effect will be the same as before: most folks being more cautious about police presence in the coming weeks, a few starting to stop (but mostly just in Ladd\’s), and the handful who stop almost everywhere continuing to do so. You can shrug off the \”doesn\’t the PPB have better things to do?\” arguments to a degree, but you can\’t ignore the fact that the enforcement actions in Ladd\’s have had little long-term net effect relevant to the perceived problem. *That* is a big issue.
i\’m with ruben, wondering why there\’s a traffic circle if they\’re going to put stop signs all around it. i\’d think the same thing in a car or if i were just walking by.
Noticed \”Cop Stop\” written in chalk at the often ignored N Flint stop sign onto Broadway this morning. If this was in fact a stop sign sting, it does make one assume a city-wide crackdown is currently getting notched up a gear or two.
I think these \”warning\” stings are a great idea, but I think we\’d all be better served if they were done at dangerous intersections (like Flint and Broadway). It sounds to me the Ladds sting is being done to appease one or two vocal residents and has little to do with public safety.
I\’m all for a sting on N Flint before I have to watch somebody get killed on my way to work…filling out a witness report would definitely ruin my morning commute.
I\’m reposting my comment from the \’weekend post\’ since the Ladd\’s stop sign issue now has its own thread:
\”Look on the Portland By Bicycle bike map, the one put out by the Portland Office of Transportation: Mulberry Street, through Ladd\’s is designated as a \’bike route\'(green and white lines on map), with directional signs and pavement markings. As a result, Ladd\’s is probably going to get an extra heaping helping of bicycle traffic.
People traveling through Ladd\’s on bikes and failing to fully acknowledge traffic laws in this neighborhood will adversely effect that neighborhood\’s quality of life. That the so called \’stings\’ have been called in should be indication that it already has, and that neighborhood residents are alarmed and have been on the phone to the city for help with the situation.
A stop sign means stop. Even so, discretion comes into play and where there\’s no one around, a 2 mph rolling stop might be forgivable. Given Ladd\’s status as host of a \’bike route\’, people should probably recognize that rolling stops aren\’t going to work at Ladd\’s in many cases. Maybe late at night after everyone\’s gone to bed, or early in the morning before everyone\’s up, but not otherwise.\” wsbob
From one side to the other, Ladd\’s has how many stop signs? 3, maybe 4? Do people really believe it\’s a credible argument that being obliged to make those stops is an unreasonable imposition. Maybe what Ladd\’s and the city needs to do in order to effectively deal with this problem is request that through traffic be diverted to 12th and 20th.
If they are going to focus on safety in Ladd\’s they should maybe spend some time on \”educating\” vehicles what bike boulevard means and how to pass or not pass at all…especially just before the smaller circles.
I take the whole lane and while many are courteous there are a few who feel that I should move over, risking being smacked by an opening door.
Lastly I think the speed limit through there should be 15, that would emphasize the notion that passing a cyclist won\’t get them there faster.
Oh My!! You mean to tell me that the motorists appear to be following the law? Oh the city must have called them all this morning and told them to watch themselves.
The numbers from both 2007 and today kind of shoot your theory that the bicyclists do no wrong!!
As a bike rider myself I wish you people would start obeying the laws so that I don\’t have to put up with all the pissed off drivers that you are not willing to share the road with.
this is a repost as well from the previous story:
the cop that stopped me said that THIS week it was only warnings, NEXT week they\’ll be handing out tickets…
i am going to start avoiding Ladds addition from now on. i can\’t think of one cyclist ever stopping at that intersection. people might slow, but still never come to a full stop. what gives man. don\’t we have better places to bust cyclists for blowing through stop signs/red lights?
even half the cars roll through stop signs at Ladds…. i think this morning\’s bust was SO LAME.
Just re-read Dave\’s post at #13 and realized the bit I was responding to was referring to the stop *sign* and not the enforcement action. Apologies, Dave – I agree that cyclists should treat the stop sign as intended until the point at which it is removed and replaced with a yield or until the law is changed such that it may be treated as a yield.
My remarks on the ineffectiveness of the enforcement actions in the neighborhood still stand, though. Some other approach should be considered.
Stop signs in a roundabout. And a in a light traffic area. Makes no sense.
i agree! how do we sit in on the upcoming meetings that will \”work toward a more permanent solution\”. considering the volume of cyclists through this area, this issue is larger than just the neighborhood association
The numbers from both 2007 and today kind of shoot your theory that the bicyclists do no wrong!!
Wait, whose theory?
As a bike rider myself I wish you people would start obeying the laws so that I don\’t have to put up with all the pissed off drivers that you are not willing to share the road with.
\”You people\”? \”[N]ot willing to share the road\”? Buddy, who the hell are you talking to? Somebody shooting out automobile tires whilst they twirl their villainous mustache and pedal away? I missed that part.
I watched two cars roll through a stop sign in front of a group of cyclists this morning. Cops were on hand stopping cyclists, but both of those cars rolled through without so much as a blink from the cops. To me, that is frustrating. I\’m all for enforcing the law, but it needs to be done equally. To say that only seven cars did not fully stop at a stop sign in ladds is simply unbelievable. If enforcement were targeted towards an ethnic group or an age group there would be no end of outcry. There should be that same outcry when cops are only there to look for cyclists.
Ladds is the safest part of my commute in the morning, be it by bike or by car. Enforcement here draws staff away from dangerous locations where real problems can be solved.
I can\’t believe that there aren\’t more dangerous locations where a team of motorcycle cops could be pulling down red light runners and stop sign violaters. Try Powell and 39th or 5oth! Both of those are full of red light runners! That is a real problem!
@12 misbella
what is a \”bicycle equipment violation\”?
Equipment violation can be one of three things as far as I know.
1. No helmet on a rider less than 17 years old.
2. No light at night.
3. No brakes on a fixed gear bike.
None of the four rose garden roundabouts outlying from the main circle has any yield signs.
My guess is that the neighborhood complaints derive from pedestrian safety concerns. Those bicyclers not stopping for stop signs probably aren\’t stopping for pedestrians either.
If that doesn\’t seem like a big issue, try parking the bike and walking this neighborhood. Also try crossing the Hawthorne Bridge on foot to see how cyclers appear from a ped\’s perspective
Finally some enforcement!
What no tickets? That is a waste of money.
Let\’s have broader enforcement on the roadways. But lets see some focus on the most dangerous offenders first.
Car, bike, or ped, if you do something stupid you should be fined.
If the PPB wants to tackle areas of real danger, Ladd\’s is not the #1 spot. Perhaps NW Everette and 14th just before going over the bridge into the Pearl. Bikes are getting flanked or almost flanked every day.
Are bikes really dangerous in Ladd\’s? I ride through there every week and I\’ve never once thought to myself, \”wow, I should come to a complete stop, because even though I don\’t see one car or person coming and I have a clear view to my right and left, I might cause some serious harm to someone.\” There are about 50,000 other intersections that do make me think about that though. Retarded!
The stop signs in Ladd\’s Addition FORCE people to atleast slow down when approaching Ladd Circle. Yield signs would give carte blanche to proceed into the circle at even higher speeds because, as stated by PPB, \”one has to perceive the need to yield right of way to another\” (I am paraphrasing). Ladd Circle is NOT a traffic circle, but a circular street that surrounds a park with low visibility and high car/ped/bike traffic.
I live in Ladd\’s Addition near one of these smaller diamonds near the large circle. I see bikes zip past my house everyday. I have played \”beat the bike\” on my bike going to my house and I have sat patiently at a stop sign in my car waiting for bikes to stop blowing the stop sign at Ladd Street and Ladd Circle. I have also yelled at cars that fly down my street when kids are playing at the end of the block or in the park. This is a quiet neighborhood that happens to have lots of non-motorized traffic combined with the occasional motorist that gets lost and frustrated.
The police are there because residents requested that they come. Whether you view it as a waste of resources or not, emergency services function on the \”Call to Service\” philosophy; they do not randomly select their time and location, they go where they are called. If someone is breaking the law in your neighborhood, then you call the city or the police department and they will do what they can to bring people within compliance. The residents in Ladd\’s Addition have done so and if the outcome ends up being that bikes slow down, look, and proceed and cars stop flying down my street endangering kids, then so be it.
If you don\’t want a ticket, I suggest you stop.
Whether we like it or not, we need to follow the traffic control laws, or we face the potential of getting a citation. Think about when (if) you are driving your car. You make a conscious decision not come to a complete stop at a stop sign, even if no one is around and you can see for two miles in all directions. You know you could still receive a ticket if somehow a police officer saw you (maybe a photo enforcement). This is the exact same issue, if you don’t stop, you know you could get a ticket, you choose not to stop, and you get upset when you get a ticket. If you would have stopped, you would not have received a ticket. That is the bottom line. While it would upset many cyclists, I think these actions would be much more effective if they were giving out citations every this morning rather than warnings.
After hearing about the sting last year, one action I took regarding my ride through Ladd\’s Addition is to frequently take an alternate route that avoids the central circle. Although Ladd\’s can be confusing, just a bit of map study will reveal other routes on narrow, low traffic streets within Ladd\’s Addition. One might have to travel a couple of extra blocks, but there is peace of mind not worrying about whether a sting is in progress. There are stop signs on these other streets, but I\’m not worried about stings popping up at these.
I suspect I\’ll be taking my favorite alternate route exclusively for the next several weeks.
Has anyone considered that we need different rules and thus signage for bikers and motorists? Perhaps cars should be forced to make the stop while bicyclists (whose efficiency is severely undermined by the \”unnecessary\” stops) simply yield to pedestrians by entering the intersection slowly?
Is anyone at PDOT discussing the idea of separate intersection rules for motorized and non-motorized vehicles?
Anyone who gets a ticket at Ladd\’s circle at this point in tie deserves it. Not because there should or shouldn\’t be stop signs, but because this is a highly enforced bike area. I would be just as worthy of a ticket if I ran all the red lights on SE Grand.
Here\’s the deal. Don\’t want a ticket? DON\’T RUN THE STOP. Everyone who gets a ticket NEXT week can\’t bitch because you had ample warning.
I make a point to do a complete foot down stop at Ladd\’s every day because I know that it is the most enforced part of my ride, right or wrong. I have yet to get a ticket.
One more thing in response to Bike Voyeur who claims \”The police are there because residents requested that they come. Whether you view it as a waste of resources or not, emergency services function on the \”Call to Service\” philosophy; they do not randomly select their time and location, they go where they are called. If someone is breaking the law in your neighborhood, then you call the city or the police department and they will do what they can to bring people within compliance.\”
That\’s a load of horse shit. I live in Felony Flats off of Foster Road where cars regularly speed down our 35MPH streets in excess of 50MPH. Our neighborhood association has \”called for service\” for years, YEARS, now to no avail.
This is definitely a class issue.
I rolled through Ladd\’s Circle right about 8 a.m. and with some luck noticed a police cruiser approaching before I got to the stop sign and was therefore able to avoid a \”warning.\” The number of motorcycle officers was tremendous, at least six or seven, as well as at least three patrol cars and one van. Quite a show of force. I agree with several posters here that this round-about should be posted with yield signs rather than stop signs. Also agree that more enforcement actions, if they\’re really necessary, should be focusing on dangerous intersections where there have been car-bike accidents, not on accident-free Ladds.
I think we should review the definition of stopping. A car when it approaches a stop sign has several feet of hood in front of them, windows (dirty or not), and the car frame itself. Their visibility is limited. I rarely ever see a car completely stop. They are almost always rolling even if slight. Because bikes are moving typically around 5 to 10 miles per hour, and have a slower acceleration the concept of rolling through a stop sign is different. Cyclist also pose less of danger to the greater population by virtue their size and the factors mentioned above. So, with better field of vision, and a slower, longer approach to a stop sign I personally feel that I have the ability to make a safe decision to go if the coast is clear. Where as in a car the necessity to completely stop is greater.
My argument is that drivers want us to obey the law\’s of the road until it is inconvenient like being in their way. Case in point, I was standing on the painted cyclist at 21st and division which is in the middle of the lane. Car pulls up aggressively and yells \”Share the road\”. I say it goes both ways and his response was that it doesn\’t mean I get the whole lane. I mentioned he should review the laws…as we all should.
Side note: I totally agree that there are cyclist who \”blow\” through stops signs and I think this is unacceptable. Especially considering that the approach to the circle usually curves just enough to hide any pedestrian that might be crossing.
its funny to me to hear all the complaing and in calling this place a \”traffic circle\” or roundabout..its not. traffic circles have entry lanes which blend into the circle\’s perimeter which allow for a merge with speed…the entry lanes into Ladd\’s are perpendicular to the circle and don\’t facilitate safety entering with any momentum…
I\’m glad the cops are there…and I\”m glad, until the traffic signals change, that they will start ticketing soon…won\’t affect me whatsoever as I travel through their twice a day…I\’ll have a good time laughing at the guy with a 280$ ticket in his hand..
There are plenty of alternate routes through Ladd\’s Addition, and I know I\’ll be using mine for the next several weeks…
I wish the police paid this much attention to poor / aggressive driving up in Northeast. It doesn\’t even take a screwed up circle street to make things inhospitable in my neck of the woods! But as usual, the upper-middle-class folks are the ones making a stink and getting the attention.
I get the feeling some Ladd\’s residents would prefer the safe confines of a gated community. Then they could just send their complaints to the Condo Owner\’s Association and be done with it.
N.I.K.
Wait, whose theory?
All I read from the Portland cyclists is that the cars are the evil ones and that cyclists don\’t break the law. So I geuss that would be the militant cyclists theory.
I am a cyclist who is tired of other cyclists acting poorly. Thats who \”you people\” are.
Its simple, if theres a stop sign STOP!!! Your the only one that will get hurt if you tangle with a car so when someone honks at you why don\’t you look at what the reason is before you go into a fit. Chances are that the driver is just trying to warn you that you are in danger.
I have found that most people that drive cars don\’t mind shareing the road but most bicyclists don\’t.
In a democracy, the actions of a few will often affect many. Apparently some cyclists through Ladds have been jerks, and a few residents got torqued and complained to the cops about criminals in their neighborhood, and now the rest of us get to pay through silly tickets and diverted police resources. Taxes and insurance work in a similar way.
Sorry should have read:
I have found that most people that drive cars don\’t mind shareing the road but most bicyclists do.
Stop at a stop sign or risk getting a ticket, it is the same everywhere. And the whole, “oh, it takes so much more energy to start up again.” That is true, as it is simple physics. But automobiles can use the same excuse, starting from a stop takes more energy (gas) and it is therefore better to not come to a complete stop at stop signs. I don’t think we want that excuse when you get run over by a car going through a stop sign. Just as others don’t want your same excuse when they get run over by you on your bicycle blowing through a stop sign. Follow the rules of the road or face the fine…
\”I\’ll have a good time laughing at the guy with a 280$ ticket in his hand..\”
That\’s just mean.
All I read from the Portland cyclists is that the cars are the evil ones and that cyclists don\’t break the law.
All you read, eh? You must be skipping over every remark above that says complying with traffic control devices is a really good idea.
I am a cyclist who is tired of other cyclists acting poorly. Thats who \”you people\” are.
Then say what you mean. Lumping everyone but yourself into these attacks tends to say \”I\’m better than you!\” more than it does \”Here\’s what I think\” or \”Here\’s what I would like to see happen.\”
Its simple, if theres a stop sign STOP!!! Your the only one that will get hurt if you tangle with a car so when someone honks at you why don\’t you look at what the reason is before you go into a fit.
That\’s a poor reason for stopping, because it justifies the \”the only one at risk is myself and I\’m responsible for my actions, so hard cheese on me if I get hurt or killed when I break the law\” myth. The reality is that other people are indeed at risk. You might cause a car to hit someone else when they try to avoid you. You might collide with another cyclist who had the right of way. You might hit a pedestrian. So the reason you should stop is actually as follows: traffic control devices are there to help make using the road a more regular and predictable experience so that people stand a better chance of getting to their destination without getting injured or killed. Scant else to it, really.
Mmann..is it \”mean\”…?
or should I take solace in the fact that someone was financially penalized for putting other people\’s well-being at risk simply because they\’re too stupid lazy to slow down…people don\’t change their behavior without financial incentive/penalty by enlarge…the only way to change someone\’s behavior is to hit them in the wallet…see recent gas price run-up for an example..
I\’m happy to see the cops there…AND i bike commute every single day, all year long. tired of almost being hit by these stupid summer riders with no regard for traffic control devices…
N.I.K.
No kidding other people can get hurt DUH! The point is the bike rider will not fare well against a car. It\’s nice how you have to try to show that your superior to everyone else
So the reason you should stop is actually as follows: traffic control devices are there to help make using the road a more regular and predictable experience so that people stand a better chance of getting to their destination without getting injured or killed.
YA THINK