Man in serious condition after bike/car crash in Southeast Portland
Posted by Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor) on July 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
The calm of a popular bike boulevard was shattered in Southeast Portland this afternoon when a truck and a bike collided in the intersection of SE Lincoln St. and SE 50th Ave.
According to Portland Police Bureau Traffic Division Lieutenant Bryan Parman, a man in a car was traveling northbound on 50th and a man on a bike was riding westbound on Lincoln when the collision occurred.
Parman says preliminary statements gleaned from two witnesses (and from the driver of the truck) is that the motor vehicle had the green light (both streets are signalized). Parman says that fact is "still under investigation" and that his traffic investigation team is compiling evidence and talking to the witnesses.
KOIN-TV is reporting that witnesses say the man on the bike "blew through the intersection", and KGW-TV is running a headline of, Bicyclist running red light strikes truck.
Also according to Parman, the man on the bike (who was not wearing a helmet) suffered "significant injuries" and was transported to OHSU where his condition is listed as serious.
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That is what happens when a cyclist yet again violates the law. I hope the lawless bike rider has to pay for the damages he/she caused.
Recommended\"KOIN-TV is reporting that witnesses say the man on the bike “blew through the intersection”, and KGW-TV is running a headline of, Bicyclist running red light strikes truck.\"
WTF is going on! This is INSANITY. Seriously, I can\'t believe it (well, I can which makes me even more misanthropic).
So I guess the story about a guy surfing on the hood of some drunk\'s car will get a blurb and this story will get a good five minutes of lead coverage.
RecommendedGreat first comment. As the news site directing traffic here sure has brought out some interesting people.
RecommendedI hope he heals up good and this is the last I hear of bike and car collisions for a while.
i see other cyclists run red lights all the time and always know that it\'s just a matter of time before one of them has a crash like this. i really hope that this guy is ok, but it\'s hard to have sympathy for someone who rides so carelessly.
RecommendedTopher:
I don\'t think the facts are in yet about who had the right of way. As the article said:
\"Parman says preliminary statements gleaned from two witnesses (and from the driver of the truck) is that the motor vehicle had the green light (both streets are signalized). Parman says that fact is “still under investigation” and that his traffic investigation team is compiling evidence and talking to the witnesses.\"
And for what it\'s worth, I had no idea signalized was a real word. This site is informative AND educational.
RecommendedSad news. I hope a speedy recovery for him. I also hope in the future more stop signs are reconfigured to give right of way for cars/bikes traveling on the bike boulevards.
RecommendedBecause people in cars never run red lights.
Now that this bike vs. car thing is under a microscope every bike moving violation that causes a crash is going to get press.
I have to wonder how many stories per day would be generated if the focus were DUII\'s in cars.
RecommendedAmen Topher.
RecommendedBad timing, dude.
Hope he recovers fast and well though. Poor guy.
RecommendedI live right at the intersection. I was at school today and didn\'t see it. But I very often see cyclists coming down from Mt. Tabor at a high rate of speed to the stoplight at 50th and Lincoln. Most brake if they get the red light (I can hear their brakes squealing all hours of the day and night), but not all do. Just be careful out there folks. I know from experience that it sucks to have to lose all your potential energy to stop on that downhill. But it doesn\'t suck as much as going to the hospital.
RecommendedUnfortunately I see bikes blow through stop lights on Interstate everyday. I\'m not sure where they are rushing off to. My time on the bike is often the best part of my workday.
RecommendedI think we all have seen cyclists blowing through red lights as if they don\'t exist.
Still, I remember the last time we had a news item like this; it turned out that the \"witnesses\" didn\'t actually witness anything, they just assumed (incorrectly) that the cyclist blew through a light, when in fact, the driver hit the cyclist because the driver lost control of his vehicle after going into diabetic shock.
Of course, it\'s entirely possible that the cyclist in today\'s incident blew a light, but I\'m going to refrain from assuming that the story is accurate until all of the facts come out.
RecommendedStop it stop it STOP IT!!!!
PEOPLE blow stop lights; bikes and cars just do what they\'re told. Can we stop with this stupid nonsense? Steve and Topher, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
RecommendedDang... that\'s too bad... hope you\'re all right bro... Good Vibes
Recommended((((( )))))
Hope he\'s ok, but that\'s the chance he chose to take, right? No one is reporting that he was forced to run the red, are they?
I hope the person who hit him gets some counseling.
RecommendedI also live about a block from there, and came home today to see the intersection blocked off. The truck was still there, but the injured party had already been taken away.
I\'m interested to hear more details because the glass that\'s all over the place isn\'t even IN the intersection, it\'s slightly more north on SE 50th.
Like Andrew mentioned, I also see bikers blow through that light coming down from the park almost every single day. I\'m actually surprised there hasn\'t been an accident here sooner.
Blowing through a red light (allegedly) , probably going pretty damned fast downhill, with no helmet???? That\'s just insane. He\'s lucky to be alive.
RecommendedPreliminarily, no helmet and ran stoplight (allegedly). If more people would just ride just a little sensibly, maybe we would have fewer of these incidents. Trust me, I deal with a lot of morons in cars and trucks every day. The difference is that I follow the rules of the road, wear a helmet and expect every vehicle to do the wrong thing. You\'ve got to be careful out there. Furthermore, everyone including myself, needs to wait until all of the facts come in to make a final judgment. Just because a cyclist gets hit, doesn\'t always mean that it is the driver\'s fault. It often is, but not always.
Recommendedeven those of us who will roll with caution through a stop sign in a residential neighborhood will think twice about blowing a light on a busy street.
I live on woodard and have to cross 50th all the time- it is a busy arterial with heavy fast traffic. C\'mon folks use some sense.
I hope the guy recovers- getting hit sucks.
RecommendedCome on?!
\"Bicyclist running red light strikes truck.\"
More like \"Truck strikes light-running cyclist.\" Because I am sure that when a cyclist strikes truck, the truck probably combusts from the force of the impact.
All sarcasm aside, I hope the guy is all right. Hopefully this has knocked some common sense into the guy. I mean, I\'ll run an uncontested stop sign, but I\'ll at least stop and look both ways for a red light.
RecommendedI was at that intersection after the crash. An officer was directing traffic around the fire truck and a lady on a bike blew right through while he was motioning cross traffic through. She almost ran right into a car that had the right of way. Kept on going. Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RecommendedAFAIK, the cyclist ran into the vehicle, not the other way around. He blew the red and smacked right into the the vehicle.
I, too, hope the driver is offered (free) counseling.
RecommendedTrue, I have to say the last part of your comment made me actually LOL, which doesn\'t happen often on these here internets.
I hope this guy recovers okay. I also hope he and everyone else who doesn\'t wear a helmet will JUST PUT ON A GODDAMNED HELMET ALREADY. Otherwise they should have to forfeit the right to a speedy ambulance ride.
RecommendedYeah, if you look at the Oregonian\'s site, they have a video clip of the police talking about it. They also include a shot of the truck, with the side clearly bashed in, and the window of the cab broken (behind the passenger door). The cyclist clearly ran into the vehicle.
RecommendedSounds like the biker ran the light. We don\'t absolutely know, but that\'s what it sounds like.
I\'m as bikey as bikey gets, but I\'m not going to just automatically jump to the defense of someone who pretty clearly fucked up. I\'m empathetic, and hope that he heals fully and quickly from his injuries, but nevertheless he fucked up.
I just saw the coverage on the news, they showed the bike. He\'s got a child seat mounted on the back. Man, I really hope you don\'t pull that shit when you\'re riding with the kid.
Be careful out there folks.
RecommendedJudging from all the rubes out there that are now on bikes, if this is true it doesn\'t surprise me. I see people doing some crazy things, mostly without helmets on and the obvious air of fair weather cyclists.
Recommendedcoral #23:
Actually, that does not prove anything. I\'m not saying it didn\'t happen the way they say it did, but the fact that the bike impacted the side of the truck does not prove one way or the other who had the right of way. It indicates who entered the intersection first, is all.
There is no clearly in this case, unless you\'re bringing some agenda into this story.
RecommendedMuch of this is illusion. As PDOT pointed out, with increasing numbers of both cars and cyclists on the road, the accident rate has remained flat. That means that while people are obviously still breaking laws left and right, they are still conducting themselves more safely than in the past.
RecommendedFirst I hope the guy in the hospital ends up physically alright and the other is emotionally all right. I can\'t imagine being in my car and hitting someone or being hit by someone on a bicycle. Just a no win for anyone.
RecommendedThis was just an accident! They happen everyday! The news outlets in this town should be ashamed of themselves. If this is lead news why isn\'t it followed with a list of all accidents that happened in the state? Really ridiculous.
Bottom line...Everyone regardless of their vehicle should be driving/riding as safely as possible, and if you are on a bike please wear a helmet!
Sorry to hear about this crash.
On a side note, that intersection needs traffic diverters
RecommendedAm I the only one who rides a 25 year old steed that, while well maintained, still tends to act up at the worst moments?
I schnapped a front brake cable coming downhill near the RQ a few months back. Hyundai lady was all WTF as I tried to explain what brought me to a crashing halt on her back bumper.
No money, guns or lawyers required.
But still. Flashback and whatcouldabeen skipped the ticker when I read this.
You haters need to de-clinch and do an archive search of local automotive deaths in the last week to get some perspective.
Riding is safe. Driving is a gamble.
Recommendedpeejay #26 said: \"the fact that the bike impacted the side of the truck does not prove one way or the other who had the right of way. It indicates who entered the intersection first, is all.\"
Are you suggesting it was possible the cyclist came to a complete stop at the light, then took off with such speed that they did such damage to the METAL truck and busted out the window? Come on ;) The cyclist was -clearly- at fault. The footage of the truck as well as the 2 eye witness reports (as well as the driver\'s). No cyclist that I know of could take off from a stop sign and within a few feet have reached a pace that would do that kind of damage to an automobile.
RecommendedAndrew #10:
\"I know from experience that it sucks to have to lose all your potential energy to stop on that downhill. But it doesn\'t suck as much as going to the hospital.\"
Very true. Talk about potential energy lost.
RecommendedFink (#17) - we *do* have fewer of these incidents. Despite a doubling in the number of cyclists in the last 5 years, the \"accident\" rate has remained steady. Cycling is safer, despite the occasional story like this one.
doug (#22) - what?!? Forfeit the \"right\" to a speedy ambulance ride? Should we do that for everybody who does anything considered by someone to be unwise? How about for the guy who falls off a ladder because he was standing on the step above the one that says \"don\'t stand above this step\"? Does he lose the right to a speedy ambulance ride too?
---
I hope this guy recovers quickly and fully, and that the truck driver is still able to continue driving (presuming the truck driver was not at fault)
RecommendedChild seat red light runner? It seems like it unfortunately requires serious injury to get some people to stop blowing lights and stop signs. I almost get hit frequently by other cyclists running stop signs on Lincoln as I cross. It\'s such a ridiculous habit, it makes me ashamed to be close to them when they misbehave.
Recommendedpeejay #26
All I was stating that it was clear the cyclist had run into the truck, not that the truck hit the cyclist (like previous incidents).
Recommendedcoral # 34
Which means what, exactly?
RecommendedI saw the crash and saw the driver of the truck pace and fret after. I felt so sorry for him and of course for the cyclist. It was tragic for both parties, but an unforgettable lesson on the import of wearing a helmet for my daughter, who was with me, and just this week ventured out on her first urban bike trip sans a parent. She is now afraid to get on her bike and I didn\'t sleep at all last night for worrying about the outcome for both cyclist and driver. I can\'t get the image of him bleeding and fighting for his life out of my head. I hope he pulls through this.
RecommendedSo what did you see Lisa? Did the cyclist run the red? Or did the cyclist have the green?
RecommendedI love how all you arm-chair junior police investigators and part time pedantic semanto-nazis start your subtle infighting as soon as the story breaks. It\'s the same, tired, well worn banter of bullcrap about what exactly an \"accident\" is and who \"hit\" whom and what constitutes \"hit\" vs. \"strike\" and all that bs. What a bunch of f-ing rubes...
Jonathan, it really is time to go to a reputation based system for comments here. Everyone has a verified login, everyone gets rated by fellow members for the quality of their posts and possibly require a photo (face shot), so people have to be responsible for their words. Otherwise you just continue to fuel the political fire of the anonymous. Oh, and keep up the good work.
Recommendedone of the issues here beneath all of this blame game is the why the cyclist blew the stop sign in the first place. As a stop sign blower myself, there are practical reasons for doing so and is not simply b/c as a cyclist I have an innate desire to disobey \"the man\" and piss motorists off.
Let\'s remember some simple physics here and realize that stopping and starting is where cyclists exert the most energy. In order to conserve, I often treat stop signs and yields instead. In this manner, I am both cautious of traffic around me but am also able to make bicycling as easy, and accessible as possible.
Anyway, I hope the gentleman is okay and that people would consider his health more than his guilt.
RecommendedIt wasn\'t a stop sign, it was a red light. New theory please...Preferably, one that also explains why drivers are weak, but cyclists who can\'t stop and go are strong.
RecommendedI saw the bike flying and only then looked up at the light, which by that time was red. Can\'t say who was in the right, and as i am a witness am probably not supposed to say. But it could easily have been green or yellow when the truck went through. I am sorry to hear the cyclist\'s condition, as per TV news, has worsened to critical.
RecommendedThanks Lisa. Since it\'s unclear what happened, I\'ll still refrain from assuming too much about what did or didn\'t happen.
Nevertheless, Lisa, I would suggest that another lesson to be learned from this, in addition to the importance of wearing a helmet (which may be of questionable value in a high-speed impact), is the importance of observing the traffic signals.
RecommendedYep. I am so glad there were other witnesses, as what I saw was totally inconclusive. Be safe.
RecommendedJeff @ #39 wrote:
\"...I love how all you arm-chair junior police investigators and part time pedantic semanto-nazis\"
AHAHA! Godwin\'s Law proves true yet again:
\"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.\"
RecommendedLt. Parman told me yesterday that investigators are likely to never really know who had the green light.
he said the witnesses will have the final say.
RecommendedGiven the notorious unreliability of eyewitness accounts, that spells a big fat \"only two people know what happened, and one of them is in critical condition.\"
RecommendedIs the bike rider a Nazi?
Recommendedto Jeff #39- Wow, you are slinging some hateful attacks and name calling. It\'s our system of laws and irregular application of them that has made all cyclist feel defensive about the way they are treated on the road and in the media. There is some major bias out there against bikes. The issues that you decry are exactly the issues we need to discuss as a community.
Anyway, when it comes to driving on the roads, there is no such thing as \"accidents\". They are collisions. The word accident implies that there is no guilty party and there always is.
Also, enough with the knee-jerk platitudes from the pro-helmet crowd. Adults are capable of making there own decisions about what level of safety and preparedness they live and die by. We all know that wearing a helmet will not prevent collisions, in fact the real solutions is to ride safe and defensively. For myself, I wear a helmet when I am going \"sport riding\" and intend to have a high rate of speed. I do not wear a helmet when commuting and for grocery trips etc when speed is not an issue. Wearing a helmet is and should be a personal choice, lets not condemn others for not living up your own ideas about safe riding. Perhaps we should outlaw base jumping, sky diving, underwater diving, mountaineering, traveling to 3rd world countries, eating Cheetos, riding motorcycles, having furniture with sharp edges and on and on... Lets all live in plastic bubbles with padded furniture, helmets on and seatbelts on the recliner.
Riding/commuting in Portland is better and safer than anywhere else I\'ve ever been. Bike lanes everywhere, bike boxes and a general awareness of bikes by car drivers. 98% of car drivers I encounter are respectful and good natured. Lets keep making riding in this city even better.
RecommendedI personally love the fact that this guys bike had a child seat on the back of it...I hope his wife TEARS him a new one when he get home...if that seat would have been occupied, this story woudl have had a much different ending I\'m afraid...
Recommendedalso..folks, this is going to happen again in the near future with the sheer number of riders just ignoring stop signs/lights...just wait and see...
maybe once there are enough bodies in the hospital, some of these so called advocacy groups might actually step up to the plate and say something...
Recommended\"Riding/commuting in Portland is better and safer than anywhere else I\'ve ever been.\"
IF this is the case, then please take the time to visit a few other places around the world and I am sure you will change your tune...
RecommendedBest Biking City in America is like saying best Ice Hockey Team in Kenya.
Yeah I don\'t understand the media and other people who feel the need to point out that the cyclist wasn\'t wearing a helmet.
There is no helmet law. It just seems like another way to blame the cyclist or portray him as some sort of scofflaw. Hey guess what - he wasn\'t wearing elbow or knee pads either. It\'s totally irrelevant.
If anything studies have shown that wearing helmets gives people a false sense of security and actually makes them ride more recklessly than if they weren\'t wearing one.
RecommendedI ride through that intersection daily. Regardless of whose at fault this biker is messed up. Looking at the car video and knowing that given the downhill on Lincoln it\'s easy to be going 20+ through the intersection this was a big impact.
Too sad another poster child for bike helmets. I hope he survives and comes back smart enough to put a helmet on next time he rides.
Peejay - did someone poop in your oatmeal this morning? Thou seemst a bit testy.
Tim Roth - Child Seat Red Light Runner - you my friend have just come up with the best punk rock band name ever.
Recommended\"Yeah I don’t understand the media and other people who feel the need to point out that the cyclist wasn’t wearing a helmet.\"
The Machine,
i mentioned the helmet because 1) I assumed some readers would wonder whether or not one was worn and 2) it seemed clear from the Police that the injury suffered was a lot more serious than it would have been if a helmet was worn.... thus making the helmet issue more a part of the story in my opinion.
i understand your angst with mentioning helmets... hope my explanation is clear.
thanks for the comment.
RecommendedI\'m sick of the so called bike community! We don\'t have a community of cyclists, we have people either trying to save money on gas, want to look cool, or be the biggest bad @$$ on the road. I get more mad at the cyclists on my daily commute these days than I do with motorists. At least the motorist are courteous, most cyclist just want to blow past you and/or stop lights like they don\'t exist. I realize there are good cyclists out there, who ride for the joy of riding. But, my guess is that most of these people aren\'t sitting around worrying about the state of our bike culture. Their probably out riding.
Officially, take my name of the so called bike community rooster.
RecommendedDoes he have a head injury?
RecommendedJonathan -
When they mention whether or not someone was wearing a seat belt in a car accident, I can understand that as there is a seat belt law.
Since there is no helmet law, I really don\'t understand the relevance. Why not report that a motorists involved in a crash wasn\'t wearing a helmet. If your head hits the windshield, you would sustain more injury than if you were wearing a helmet. But that would be stupid because drivers are not required to wear helmets - guess what - neither are cyclists.
Like I said - he probably also sustained more injuries than he would have if he were wearing downhill MTB armor - which is just as required by law as wearing a helmet.
I understand your first point as to why you included it in the story, but the second point is pure speculation.
In any case, I still think it just gives people another reason to blame the cyclist when he wasn\'t doing anything wrong by not wearing a helmet.
Recommended@jeff 39 - So, you\'re saying people who are on the internet and not actually visible or accountable to the physical community at all should be held accountable for their words through a rating system and board moderators?
Does this mean that if I get an average of 1 star per post, you won\'t be my friend, or maybe *gasp* ignore my posts.
That might be the most retarded post/suggestion I\'ve ever read on this blog.
Phail.
Recommendedsickofit quote - I\'m sick of the so called bike community! We don\'t have a community of cyclists, we have people either trying to save money on gas, want to look cool, or be the biggest bad @$$ on the road. I get more mad at the cyclists on my daily commute these days than I do with motorists. At least the motorist are courteous, most cyclist just want to blow past you and/or stop lights like they don\'t exist... /sickofit end quote
Sometimes it feels that way to me too.
I commute by bike, obey traffic laws, and experience what you say nearly everyday.
If this were a real bike community, we\'d talk less and listen more. We\'d work to change laws we don\'t like. We\'d realize our anger toward the \"other\" is exactly what divides us. We\'d support each other through change some folks might not like. We\'d behave like the good cross section of society that we are.
RecommendedThere is no excuse to not wear a helmet. Trying to explain that wearing a helmet is more dangerous than not wearing one is absurd. Frankly, with modern helmets you don\'t even realize you\'re wearing one half the time. As far as laws go, there isn\'t a law saying that you can\'t bash your head into a wall repeatedly, but it is still a stupid thing to do. Wear a helmet, ride like a grown up and move on.
RecommendedFor all of ya\'ll who are trying to figure out who\'s at fault or spouting off on what should have been done or having arguments with each other about nothing...please keep this in mind: Fight that inclination...fight that anger...fight that knee jerk reaction that almost all of us have to, I don\'t know, have your narrow point of viw heard...and just take a moment and first put yourself in the victims\' (the cyclist, the family and friends of the cyclist, and the driver) shoes for a moment. Think about it. And rather than speaking(writing) maybe just be quiet or listen. There was a terrible accident and it really doesn\'t matter who was at fault. The cyclist is a good friend of mine who I last heard is in a crticial condition and may still be unconscious. C\'mon ya\'ll we can do better.
RecommendedFink-
RecommendedFor the love of Jeebus, please don\'t ever leave your house without wearing your helmet then. (Maybe start wearing it in the shower too.)
thank you Matt. I have been so saddened by the discussion about this. All that matters in my mind is that he recovers. The people gathered around the scene never sank to the level of this back and forth, thank goodness.
RecommendedWearing a helmet should be the law for everyone riding a bike, just as a seatbelt is required when riding a bike. It is dangerous to ride without a helmet, will increase any accident injury and will increase any health care bill as a result of an accident.
I hope the guy is alright and I hope drivers and bikers will start obeying traffic lights.
Recommendedbahueh (#51) - What would you like the \"so-called advocacy groups\" to do? No group can force individuals to ride sober, or with helmets and lights, or to obey the law regarding traffic signals or stop signs, or speed limits, or to pay attention, or not wear earphones, or any other thing. These actions are the result of the individual choices of those involved. The groups can provide education (which most of them do), free helmets or lights (which some do), or influence legislation to protect vulnerable users (which the BTA has done), or encourage people to share the road (which We Are All Traffic and PDOT have done and continue to do). I mean, short of mind-control, what do you *want* them to do?
And yes, this *will* happen again in the future, because there is no practical way to completely eliminate the problem, only minimize it. Statistics are showing the injury / death rate to be basically constant, despite rising ridership - so either everyone is doing *something* right, or the number of injuries is noticeably under-reported.
I\'d like to see a higher bar for driver registration, because I think that the level of training and testing to operate a 3 ton motor vehicle is insufficient for the level of damage it can cause. But that still doesn\'t prevent people from driving illegally, any more than taking their license away does. (I\'d also like to see cars confiscated in the case of people who drive without a license, but that\'s another issue) I\'d love to see the BTA press both those issues at the state level.
Recommendedwow this sucks. Being that I just started riding again... I feel concerned for myself and others while sharing the road with autos and motorcycles (because they are bigger). I see people drive carelessly no matter what they are using to get from point a to point b.
RecommendedMaybe that is why so many people drive cars/trucks because they feel safer.
Since I\'ve mentioned to people about riding my bike.. I\'ve had a few say.. \"Oh I won\'t ride I don\'t feel safe\". And another person is a paramedic who will not ride his bike because he sees so many bicycle accidents.
What more can the transportation department do to gain better control if recklessness in general?
I saw a car run through a camera intersection today while I was waiting to cross on my bike.
I\'d rather not have this car vs bike but more importantly the topic be about people in general driving while not paying attention or driving and being reckless. I know there is no perfect world.. but..
Matt..from all accounts, a driver did not cause this collision, the cyclist did...you can completely eliminate the this particular problem by stopping at stop signs and lights...its not complicated.
yes, ridership is up and injury rates have remained constant...for now.
setting a higher bar for driver registration is great and I believe overdue..but if that\'s the case, there should be higher bars set for cycling on public roadways too, right? I mean, we\'re all \"traffic\" rememeber? does that entail increasing demands from one user group and not the other?
you can legislate \"individual choices\" ..public health officials do it daily...and I feel that if those cyclists using public streets dont\' change their collective behavior, it will be changed for them in the near future if ridership continues to increase...
what exactly has We Are All Traffic done, exactly? they seem to be awfully quiet through the past week..golden opportunity being passed by..
how about use the media to spread the message, to cyclists, that roadway laws need to be complied with..make it public..make it at least appear as though the \"community\" cares about the problem and is willing to address the issue.
RecommendedI hate to say it but this recent spate of events will prompt legislators in Salem to mandate bike operator licensing AND helmets for those over the age of 16. I can see lawmakers, especially from outside the Portland area, attaching this provision to any BTA proposals for vehicular homicide, tougher driver penalties and vulnerable roadway user laws.
Irresponsible riders that revel in their \"freedom\" will cost us all a certain measure of ours.
The logic will be impossible to defeat. If cyclists want more protection then they must also be educated about and forced into self-protective measures. Once it passes, look out for the inevitable police crackdowns and citation fests.
RecommendedBahueh, your dire warnings of impending regulation of cyclists are becoming tiring. We get it, already. You\'re Portland\'s Self-Appointed Bicycling Nanny. Give it a rest.
Since ridership is up and injuries have remained constant, injury *rates* are down.
And it does not follow that because you regulate one group more rigorously (motorists) you need to regulate other groups (e.g., cyclists) more rigorously.
Wise regulation is based on risk, and - despite your hyperbole of the risks posed by scofflaw cyclists - the risks created by motorists remain exponentially greater than those created by cyclists.
Did you think of anything that causes more deaths in the US each year than people driving automobiles? You didn\'t, did you?
Well, when you look up the numbers, compare them to the number of deaths and injuries caused by people on bikes. Since you apparently have no understanding of the relative magnitude of risk, I think you\'ll be quite surprised.
As far as \"laws need to be complied with,\" no reasonable person disputes this. But enforcement priorities are limited - only so much can be done. We need a strategy on how to effectively focus our enforcement efforts.
How about focusing on violations that create the greatest likelihood of injuring or killing others? Seem like a good place to start to you? Guess where that is. That\'s right. Automobiles. 43,000 dead people every year.
RecommendedForseti,
Apples and oranges when comparing number of fatalities, since risk is based on the time spent participating in the activity.
How many hours are spent in a motor vehicle per person per year in the US?
How many hours are spent on a bicycle per person per year in the US?
Give us some concrete numbers instead of your \"hyperbole\" and invisible statistics.
Bahueh is pointing out how hypocritical things can get here at bikeportland. This happens on every blog that expresses a viewpoint, where those who participate can\'t see how that single viewpoint can be unrealistic.
Stamp and shout all you want for better driver training to operate a motor vehicle, it will do no good without the same level of education and action for cyclists on the road.
I\'m tired of hearing justifications for running stop signs and red lights. I\'m tired of hearing law enforcement actions being called stings. If you don\'t like the law work to change it, but in the mean time accept responsibility and expect a fine if you are caught breaking the law.
It get to be old when every time a driver is involved in a collision with a cyclist it\'s the drivers fault. Well here we have a situation with as much evidence as any and the cyclist is not to blame.
I\'m Bahueh, be careful what you demand of drivers, because it may just come back to haunt you.
RecommendedI\'m not justifying breaking the law. My post has nothing to do with breaking the law. Seriously, I\'m not. I don\'t like to see cyclists blowing red lights any more than you do - I just don\'t spend time on bikeportland complaining about it.
And I\'m not addressing who was at fault here - because I don\'t know.
I\'m taking about understanding the actual risks involved with driving and cycling and creating the best policy, most efficiently using scarce resources, to create safe roads.
Time spent in the activity is irrelevant to that point. If people driving cars kill more people because they spend more time driving than people do riding bikes, they still kill more people.
But here\'s a hint: It has more to do with the weight of the vehicle and the maximum possible speeds - even if both operators\' times are equal, the motor vehicle will still be far more likely to kill and injure.
That\'s a simple, foundational fact you need to understand. The lion\'s share of the risk on our roads - far and away - is created by people driving motor vehicles.
As for the statistics, I\'m not your research service. But they\'re easy to find. Try using google.
RecommendedI should also add that I\'m also not claiming that people on bikes are never at fault. I\'m happy to assign fault wherever it lies, regardless of transportation mode choice. I just think you have to consider the risks of fault for various actions. All violations do not carry the same risk. And if you want to eliminate or mitigate injuries and deaths, you focus enforcement where there is the greatest likelihood of that outcome.
RecommendedI usually bike the bike lane roads around my house. It\'s easy. There are few stops. Few cars. Quiet. Safer. However, the other bikes are more a concern than the average auto driver.
Every time I venture out I have to brake for other bikes disregarding their stop signs or red lights.
Ninety percent of the time I ride thru an intersection where another bike has to stop for a stop sign I have a near collison. The \"stop sign\" biker runs right thru the sign/intersection. I find red lights better at stopping bike cross traffic.
What gets me is that with autos is that 95% of the cars stop and wait patiently for me to pass through. Isn\'t that wild. It has been this way for as long as I can remember - 15+ years of biking in Portland.
Have others experienced near misses with other bikes that blow stop signs? But as I stated above: autos are more patient and actually safer than bikes at stop signs. Bike around the Hawthorne area and see for yourself.
Recommendedbaheuh (#68) - you missed my point entirely. No, I can\'t completely eliminate this particular problem by stopping - I can only eliminate it for *me*. You can\'t force other people to make \"appropriate\" decisions - they\'re going to decide to do whatever they decide to do. If you have some foolproof way to convince all these cyclists to stop for stop signs and signals, let us know.
And sure, we\'re all traffic, but do we want to legislate muscle-powered transportation? Do we then need a running license to walk in excess of 7mph? There\'s little to no difference in damage between a 150-lb runner at 15mph and a 150-lb cyclist + 20-lb bike at 15mph. There\'s a huge difference between them and a 700-lb motorcycle or 1,500+lb car at 15mph, or worse yet, 30mph. (4x the damage of 15mph) It makes sense to do so, because it takes a lot of energy to push a bike at 15mph but only a few pounds of foot pressure to move a car at the same speed. The two are not equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.
No, you can\'t legislate individual choices, you can only legislate punishment. Sure, the severity of the punishment and the frequency of enforcement will *influence* the choices, but it won\'t stop them. Smoking pot is illegal in most cases, as is buying and selling it - has the legal punishment or the pronouncements of public health officials prevented that particular choice? Influenced perhaps, but certainly not prevented.
\"How about we use the media to spread the message... that roadway laws need to be complied with\" - absolutely, let\'s do that, but let\'s educate everyone regardless of their mode, not just cyclists - because there are lawbreakers of every type. I\'m all for increased education and public service announcements. We don\'t spend enough time, money nor resources on education, and that should change. Just be aware that many people are still going to choose to break the laws, because the perceived benefits outweigh the perceived risks. We live in a highly individualistic culture that minimizes communal responsibility. In the 1950s, when social pressures helped maintain conformity, there was greater respect for the law. It\'s no longer the 1950s, and the culture has changed. Either we change culture again to encourage conformity, or we change the laws to reflect the practices. Since laws are a social construct that embody the collective values of the community, one could argue we should change the laws. Maybe the discussion should start with what we value, and then move to what we need to change to embody those values.
Recommendedclarification - \"it makes sense to do so\" in my prior post refers to licensing cars and motorcycles. It doesn\'t make sense to license bicycles since the damage they do is roughly the same as running, and most of us would likely agree that licensing pedestrians is ludicrous.
Recommended\"Frankly, with modern helmets you don\'t even realize you\'re wearing one half the time.\" Fink #61
I had an amusing experience lately. Last week, I rode over to my parents house and decided to walk around the garden and see how things were doing. The blistering sun was out I didn\'t have a hat, so I just left the helmet on for protection from it. Then I decided, \'well, hey, here\'s something that needs some trimming, etc. etc.\'.
After awhile I forget the crazy helmet is on my head and that from the sidewalk, people are seeing a guy walking around and working in the garden with a crash helmet on. My back\'s turned away from the sidewalk and a couple girls I notice from my right side vision. As they proceed on, I hear one of them remark quietly(but unbeknown to them, still audible to me) to the other....\"The sky\'s falling!\".
RecommendedMatt F #62,
I just found out that the cyclist was Karl and I sat here and read every single one of these comments. I don\'t know you, but thanks for posting a comment about Karl. There\'s been plenty of ranting about every side of every subject, so much so that the get well wishes have vanished and the posts have turned to the absurd (no offense wsbob #77). It\'s probably time that the majority of the comments are shifted to well wishers and people who know Karl and can use this forum to reflect on him as a loving father, husband, friend and neighbor. Karl loves everyone, and I mean LOVES. He is so great to be around and is seriously, seriously injured and needs every one\'s support. If you know him and his family, you need to stop by and give them a major hug. I love you Karl. I hope you get well. I\'ll see you as soon as I can.
RecommendedCan anyone tell me how the cyclist (Karl) is doing?
RecommendedI am the wife of the truck driver and emotionally he is NOT ok. His concerns are only for Karl.
RecommendedIt is very very sad and We wish Karl the best. The truck will NEVER be a part of our lives again!! After that who could imagine getting back in.
My husband is in need of counsel as he is the type of person who could not hurt a flea. We have a Son who Mountain Bikes, We road bike and more oftern than not its the Car, however this time my Husband was at the wrong place at the wrong time. We Pray for Karl and hope he will mend, His injuries can be stitched or taped.
My husbands will forever be their. I picked him up at the scene, He still is in shock and can not hardly function with his daily tasks.
Please People...If you ride, I beg you to Obey the signals. Sounds like you have two men that have loving families and children, neither one of them deserved what happened. \"Bad Things Do Happen to good People and I pray my husbands emotions one day will heal. I continue to pray Karl will heal and get back to his family.
All of these blogs are great and I hope they continue for education purposes. Everyone has a right to an opinion, all points and opinions matter.
My first response on when arriving was, Why No Helmet and what if their was a child in the car seat attached to bike. Please Karl, Heal?
The tears and prayers for Karl from my husband and family continue every moment of everyday.
Nd by stitched or taped i do not mean bad by that at all, I pray pray pray for him. No child should go without a father. I am sick to what happened to Karl. I am sick for what happened to my husband. I pray they will both be ok at the end of the day.
RecommendedSounds like you ask either one of them and they would give the shirt off their back.
Thanks again for everyone\'s wishes for Karl and my Husband.
Just hope with this something good will come out of this.
Please Ride Safe????? Please????
We all have to share the road.
Some of us (me included) tend to get caught up in the discussion of the so-called \"larger issuse\" and neglect the human aspect of what\'s going on. I posted my well-wishes in my first comment, but let me reiterate that I hope that Karl heals quickly and recovers completely, and I hope that the driver of the truck can find peace, comfort, and the confidence to get back out and be on the roadway. I\'m sure neither of them intended for this to happen, and at this point in this specific case it\'s useless to assign blame and we should all be supportive to both parties as individuals. (I\'m not saying there aren\'t broader issues here, I\'m saying that no discussion of them is going to change anything in this specific case)
So please don\'t interpret many of our remarks as meaning we don\'t care - we do.
My prayers and wishes for peace and healing for all involved.
RecommendedRamona Heights,
You can tell how right you are, when you crash and end up with a head injury because you weren\'t wearing a helmet. Right after you wipe the drool from your mouth. I know it\'s not COOL to wear a helmet. And I am sure you are such an awesome rider/bike handler that nothing will ever happen to you. But don\'t be an idiot. There is no valid arguement for not wearing one for anyone over 12.
Furthermore, helmets in the shower ARE cool. You should try it some time.
RecommendedI hope the comments from \'Wife of the driver\' will help demonstrate how compassionate many Portland drivers are. This board is often quick to vilify anyone who touches a steering wheel (skidmark?), but it should be obvious at this point that there are good operators and bad operators (independent of which vehicle they choose to operate).
RecommendedWhyat, I think you mean how compassionate many *Portlanders* are. Let the \"us v. them\" thing go. We\'re all traffic, we\'re all trying to get where we need to go, and, except for a few people who use every mode of transportation, we all care about the welfare of others.
So here\'s to hoping Karl makes a full recovery, that the driver here gets past his understandable grief, and that everyone chills out and behaves safely.
RecommendedAs a nurse who sometimes takes care of bicycle crash victims (some of whom have been profiled on this site) I certainly don\'t think it hurts to wear a helmet. I\'ve seen it where something as innocuous as falling from a bike at very low speeds and hitting your head on something hard like a curb or stone -- no cars involved -- causes profound head injuries (meaning, you have someone taking care of you the rest of your life). Of course, sometimes helmets do nothing to help, but they very rarely (if ever?) make the situation worse.
That said, I am strongly opposed to legislation making bicycle helmets mandatory for adults. It really is about choice, accessibility and upsetting the car:cycle ratio. And, it seems Portland is approaching critical mass, which is really exciting (and scary)!
Should I get to meet Karl, I hope to find him in great shape!
RecommendedI\'ve been slowly building up steam all summer since I notice the increased amount of bike traffic this year and how many cyclists routinely flout the traffic laws. I am very sorry for Karl and wish him a full recovery. The punishment far, far exceeded his \"crime\" of a lapse in judgment, if indeed he blew the light,
But starting today I am going to do a count of how many cyclists vs. motorists I see violate during my ride. This morning it was 2 cyclists and one driver, and the driver entered the intersection when it was yellow and the light turned red before he exited. Not as bad as the two cyclists I saw who blew the reds, including one who blew every red on SW Broadway for eight blocks.
Hopefully at some point this year, I will have ride were I don\'t see anyone violate or at least fewer cyclists than cars, but based on what I\'ve seen so far, I doubt it.
I have little patience with folks who try to justify blowing red lights and stop signs. Their excuses are juvenile and selfish. \"Cars do it all the time.\" So what, doesn\'t make what you do right. \"It\'s different because I\'m a bike and they are a car and cars are more dangerous.\" True, but it is still not a justification for violating the law.
What frustrates me the most is the hypocrisy. Some cyclists who are the most vehement about demanding respect for their rights are unwilling to accept any responsibility to respect the law that creates those rights. \"I\'ll get in the face of anybody who doesn\'t respect my rights as a cyclist, but I won\'t abide by any law that causes me a minor inconvenience, like having to stop and lose my momentum.\" Some cyclists, me among them, get aggravated when we have a motorist get on us because our being on the road costs them a few seconds, yet we are unwilling to give up a few seconds to stop at a light or a stop sign.
From what I observe, I don\'t buy into this \"there are scofflaws in cars and on bikes and you can\'t single one out as worse than another\" argument. Sorry, but based on my own observations, it\'s easy. Despite the far greater number of cars on the roard, I see a lot more moving violations by bikes than cars.
I agree that some of the traffic laws, as applied to bikes, don\'t increase safety much. I believe in a slow and go rule for stop signs, but until we get the law changed, I am going to stop at stop signs and I hope my fellow cyclists start doing a better job of it as well.
RecommendedHelmet are dum. Shucky, I been in fiverteen recs! I has even bonked my head on a road sign and I\'m still riding a trikesickle. It\'s a Rascal.
Recommendedno word on Karl\'s condition?
RecommendedHey Lisa
Email me at mforness3000[at]hotmail[dot]com regarding Karl\'s condition
~matt
RecommendedSorry - I need to vent some frustration about the refusal of some folks on this site to admit that yes indeed...a bicycle CAN hit a car.
Every accident that occurs between bikes and cars is NOT the fault of a motorist.
Bikes are given much of the same road rights as cars, and cyclists need to accept responsibility and blame just as motorists do.
If it were reversed, and a motorist had been \"alleged\" to have run the light/sign - folks would be blowing up this spot crying for the blood of the driver.
But because it\'s possibly the bicyclist who is at fault, people are putting heavy emphasis on the \"alleged\" aspect of the article.
I see cyclists run red-lights/stop signs. I see motorists doing it too.
And yes, I\'ve been hit by a bicyclist. Fortunately, he was unharmed, but he was clearly in the wrong.
I would have been devastated if he was hurt, as I\'m sure most people would be.
Folks on this site get an Us vs. Them attitude going that is frankly disturbing, and doesn\'t do much to further the cause of all modes of transport sharing the roadways peacefully.
As someone who drives and bikes - I see both sides.
When I bike, cars make me nervous as hell, and I choose paths that are not along major car thoroughfares.
When I drive, bikes make me nervous as hell and I choose roads that are not major bike commuting spots (Hawthorne, Belmont, Alberta to name a few).
I\'m doing everything in my power to make my bike as visible as possible (reflectors, lights, tape, mirrors and a bell), especially since I\'ve been riding more on the Springwater Trail. Unfortunately, accidents happen.
And sometimes, they are just that.
Much Love, Mindy C
RecommendedMindy, I agree with everything you\'re saying about responsibility, and about the needless fostering of an \"Us vs. Them\" paradigm. The latter is chip-on-the-shoulder victimhood, mob mentality, self-righteousness, and hypocrisy all rolled into one. I refuse to wear a chip on my shoulder, I refuse to wear the mantle of victimhood, and I refuse to get caught up in a mob. And while riding might be the righteous choice, it will never be something we can force on others from our high horses. It will always be, however, the righteous choice we can lead the way on through righteous (and not self-righteous) example.
All that said, I have refrained from assuming that the cyclist in this collision blew the light, because the reports were not conclusive enough to make it anything more than an assumption. Recall that last year, a cyclist was hit by a truck after he reportedly ran a red light. When the facts of the case eventually emerged, it turned out that the police assumed he ran a red light, because he couldn\'t answer their questions-- and it\'s now understandable that he couldn\'t answer their questions, because it turned out that he was suffering from a severe concussion. The truth finally emerged nonetheless-- the driver had gone into diabetic shock, and hit the cyclist, who never actually ran the red light he was accused of running. With that incident still fresh in mind, I choose to refrain from assuming too much in this collision, until all the facts are out.
And even if the cyclist in this collision did blow the light-- something I see way too much of in this town-- I would prefer to mind my manners and refrain from saying what I\'m thinking while he\'s lying in the hospital fighting for his life.
RecommendedMatt: I emailed you as you asked and never heard back. I just want to hear he\'s ok....or whatever the latest report is. Please let me know at lisazuniga[at]yahoo[dot]com.
RecommendedJRB (#87) - \"starting today I am going to do a count... during my ride\" I\'d really prefer that you don\'t. I\'d prefer that you pay attention to the road and your surroundings rather than focusing on trying to notice the behavior of motorists and cyclists. While you\'re focused on watching that biker to see if he stops at the stop sign, you\'re not paying attention to a myriad of other things you should be paying attention to in order to be safe. I\'m not your mother, though, so it\'s your choice.
Re: Karl, and the \"punishment\" exceeding the \"crime\" of a lapse in judgement: First off, I wish Karl a speedy recovery, and I have no idea if he did run a light; or if he did, whether it was on purpose or through lack of noticing it. What I can say is that for anyone who isn\'t paying attention to the road and their surroundings, they deserve whatever happens - it\'s the same as if you walk backwards and walk right over a cliff. Sure, I feel sorry for that individual, but that\'s what can happen if you don\'t pay attention. If someone blows a light without making sure the intersection is clear of cross traffic, they likewise deserve what happens. Again, I don\'t know what happened in Karl\'s case, and either way I don\'t wish him nor his family any ill or pain. All I\'m saying is be aware. Be as aware as you can be if you want to stay safe.
Of course, if you want to wear headphones, or talk on a cellphone while riding, or ride with your eyes closed - it\'s your choice. Just don\'t tell me you don\'t deserve it. \"deserve\" means to be suitable or \"fit\" for something. If you choose to be unaware, you make yourself fit. (sure, there are always cases where someone is unaware completely by chance or accident, or because too much is happening at once for the person to take it all in - I\'m not referring to those scenarios here)
\"I see a lot more moving violations by bikes than cars.\" - where are you riding? If you\'re riding on roads with bike lanes and on bike boulevards like Salmon or Clinton, or on the Hawthorne Bridge then I\'m not surprised. Bike traffic in those areas is heavy, and on the boulevards car traffic is light. If you were a motorist and on 99E, I guarantee you\'d see more disobedient cars. Beware of the observer effect. Also, cars move twice as fast as bikes in most locations. (except the downtown core) This means you have at least twice as much time to witness a cyclist doing something illegal than you do to witness a motorist doing the same thing - you may have that bike in sight for 12-20 blocks, while the car may only be in your view for 4 blocks. I\'m not saying your perceptions are invalid, I\'m just saying that you need to examine them and judge for yourself whether you\'re comparing apples to apples, and that you\'re not just seeing what you\'re looking for. (i.e. a pre-determined result)
Recommendedi know this is no laughing matter but, seriously, at this point the uneducated and the rest of the country hearing about this must imagine that every cyclist in portland is just a lawless, helmetless lemming running that red light right over the cliff out of pure instinct!
RecommendedCan someone please update us with the cyclist\'s condition?
RecommendedI hope I\'m not speaking out of turn, but I wanted to give everyone a quick update, especially Lisa. Karl is in stable condition. He is still pretty heavily sedated and is not receiving any visitors outside of his immediate family. Matt and his family are coordinating all support efforts for Karl\'s family, so he may not be able to respond as quickly as he would otherwise be able to. But Matt would be the person to contact if you want a more inclusive report on Karl\'s progress.
As an aside, everyone still needs to be careful with assumptions. Helmet debates aside, just within these posts there are a couple things to consider before jumping to conclusions. First, is that all sides of the story are not available... primarily Karl\'s input.
Second, rixtir #12 reminded us of a prior accident that was initially assumed to be the cyclist\'s fault but was actually the result of the driver going into diabetic shock. That particular incident had other issues regarding erroneous eyewitness testimony, etc, but the core of the matter is something worth considering when not all of the facts are in. Then, Donald #30 posted about failed brakes and bumper breath.
RecommendedHow awful for both the cyclist and the driver. Will this ever be any different ... I mean the way we view each other so brutally ?
How about if we just tend to what we each do on the road to make the experience more safe and pleasant for ourselves and others? Should it matter what mode of transportation the other has chosen or what they\'re wearing? None of this determines how we treat other folk, how we see them. Do you see a human being, a beating heart, one who bleeds , and suffers emotional and physical pain?
We all need to ride/drive with a bit more caution and courtesy , don\'t we? Please be true to yourself here, look deep within.
None of our cycling/driving records remains entirely free of \"whew, that was a close one\" comments, or real \"boo-boos\" somewhere in our personal archives that we carry in our own brains...ah do you see the flashes of connection too?
I know I\'ve had mine, though I attempt to follow the rules of the road , sometimes my level of \'awareness\' numbs out; I run on auto (even on my bike) .
I want those times to be at the minimum. How about you all?
Can we not begin to view other out there as extremely vulnerable people and determine responsibly that we will do our best to assure that the other person in the car or in the bike lane will make it home again at the end of the day smiling and healthy ... because we waved them on politely or thanked them for the right of way with a smile?
Come on people lets at least try...
RecommendedJRB: I did that a couple summers ago--it was right around 50/50 blowing through reds and stops vs. following the same laws we expect cars to. I might have seen one or two cars (out of thousands) break a traffic law in the same time.
Since I decided to stop riding like an idiot ten years ago, I\'ve had zero negative interactions with car drivers. Every once in a while I\'ll chase someone down to point out there\'s a right turn signal on the west end of the Broadway bridge, and they\'re always apologetic and thankful--maybe because I\'m polite, not belligerent.
The other day a guy on a bike blew past me at the light at Interstate and Albina and very nearly wound up underneath a truck that was pulling out of the side street. I wonder if he had enough self-awareness to realize he might have been seriously injured, or that running the red light put him at that risk. And I wonder how the driver\'s attitude towards bikers may have changed.
Recommendedanyone who is interested in updates on the cyclist\'s condition or helping out his family go to:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/helpKarl/
thanks, matt
RecommendedI heard the whole thing happen and my friend and I were the first people to arrive by Karl\'s side. I just want to thank everyone who helped Karl that day. Everyone responded quickly and calmly and I know that really helped him. I feel for Karl and his family and the driver of the truck and his family. I still cannot get the image of that day out of my head. I can\'t possibly imagine how the driver must feel because I still feel really shaken. I remember the look of shock on the drivers face. I do not want to get involved in the politics. I do want to say accidents happen and that\'s what it was an accident. And please always wear a helmet, I know I will never \'forget\' to wear mine again. For those of you interested in helping Karl and his family; my friend and I will be teaching a donation yoga class in the park near 50th and SE Lincoln. All proceeds will go to Karl and his family. I will post more details when we figure out a day and time. Please join us. My heart is with Karl and the driver. I hope the driver receives lots of support and counseling as well. All of my healing thoughts are going out to everyone involved in and affected by this terrible accident. Love and light...
RecommendedIf you could help the family out with a small donation, please go to
http://www.hugotribe.com/
RecommendedEveryone,
RecommendedPlease join us for a yoga practice dedicated to the Hugo Family!
Mark the date:
Healing Golden Light, Yoga Practice for the Hugo tribe
Sunday August 10th, 9-10:30am at the grassy lot at 51st and Lincoln. Donations will go to the Hugo family.
See you there!
This intersection is very bad because of the number of bikers who blow the light. I lived two doors down from her about a year ago.
I will send money to the guy in the truck it sounds like he did not break the law, yet he gets to live with the memory of hitting some one.
Follow the signals bikers!
How hard is that, everyone else does it!
RecommendedMyra-
Where is this alternate universe you live in? You know, the one where cars do not routinely speed, blow through crosswalks, run stoplights(both yellow and red), and do not apparently pollute the very air we breathe?
I would sure love to live there! 48,000 killed by your precious cars last year sweety.
You ma\'am are a fool of the greatest degree. Congrats, cause on this site it has hard to be dumber than the lady next to ya.
RecommendedSo, is it OK then to run stoplights as long as you where a helmet? That\'s the impression I\'m getting from some of these comments.
RecommendedWow! Everyone needs redirect their hemlet, red-light-blowing, out-dated issues of earlier posts to the new articles. This one has moved on to ensuring that the health and mental well being of Karl and Stephen are being addressed. This should now be an enightened blog. Please keep the mindless, self-serving bickering to yourselves and offer a kind word to Karl, Stephen and their families. By continuing to post this garbage it makes it harder for people who are looking for updates to find what they need.
From previous posts...
Updates on Karl and ways to help out the Hugo family - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/helpKarl/
If you could help the family out with a small donation, please go to: http://www.hugotribe.com/
Healing Golden Light, Yoga Practice for the Hugo tribe
RecommendedSunday August 10th, 9-10:30am at the grassy lot at 51st and Lincoln. Donations will go to the Hugo family.
Peace and healing to the Hugo family. I am so sorry that so many insensitive people have posted here. Yes, Karl made a serious mistake, but these posts are unncessary.
I am acutely aware of the huge number of folks I see riding bikes, scooters and skate boards without helmets--responsible adults and even children. This is an epidemic in our city. I witness this every day.
It is not Karl\'s fault that he was hit by a truck. Please don\'t judge unless you know the full story. What was he rushing to do that day? What was going on? Have you ever been in a trance and arrived at a desitation (either via car or bike) and not even remembered the journey? We all go into these hypnotic trances spontaneously several times each day. Perhaps that was what was going on with Karl.
Please offer your love and support for the Hugo family as well as for the driver of the truck and keep your judgements to yourself.
Love and light.
RecommendedCarol
Carol, thanks for reminding us all of Karl and his recovery. I went to the health weblog to read how he\'s doing. It\'s good to hear he\'s got some good cognitive function returning.
Reading about this kind of experience will be a worthwhile lesson for some people. It\'ll take something more for others to get it. Better sooner than later. It can be really easy to imagine something like this could never ever happen to you personally, then in a blink of an eye... . Karl\'s got a long, arduous road ahead of him if my own personal experience is any indication. I wish him well. Sounds like he\'s got a great family and community of friends to help watch over him.
Recommended