Anti-cyclist products on CafePress spark complaints
Posted by Jonathan Maus (Editor) on May 25th, 2007 at 11:12 am
of the offending products.
The League of American Bicyclists is leading a charge to voice complaints about anti-cyclist products being sold at popular web product retailer CafePress.
Here’s the message being sent around by the League’s Advocacy Coordinator Lou Elin Dwyer:
“Please go to the address below and see the violence being promoted against bicyclists by CaféPress through stickers, t-shirts and coffee mugs.
The message: “I don’t share the road,” accompanies a car striking a bicyclist. There are others here.
Please call CaféPress at (877) 809-1659, Toll-Free, to let them know you find this type of behavior reprehensible, offensive, and irresponsible.You would expect better judgment to be exhibited on behalf of management.”
Here’s what Dwyer heard back from CafePress:
“Thank you for contacting CafePress.com. As you may know, CafePress.com provides an automated service to a rich and vibrant community of individuals across the globe who differ in their views about what is considered offensive. All product images and ideas used in connection with the CafePress.com Service have been provided to CafePress.com by users and do not reflect the opinions of CafePress.com.
While we don’t endorse any particular position, we respect the right of individuals to express their own opinions. Thank you for bringing this content to our attention.”
Local biking author and nationally syndicated columnist Joe Kurmaskie (aka Metal Cowboy) has already called the company to voice his concerns. He shared the exchange he just had with CafePress on a local email list:
“…I just got off the phone with the content team of Cafe Press… I let them know my thoughts… and also let them know that I would be doing an article on this.”
To which CafePress replied,
“come on man, this is just harmless fun. Do you have to make a federal case over it?”
Some of the most offensive items have already been removed, but anti-cyclist products remain for sale on CafePress from a user named Fantastic Bullshit.
No word yet on whether CafePress will remove the remaining, anti-cyclist items.
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May 25th, 2007 11:25
I actually think the one they removed is kind of funny, but I am warped like that.
May 25th, 2007 11:29
You should see their offerings re: the Isreal/Palestine conflict, the Iraq war, and politics in general. It's all about what the market will bear and CafePress simply takes advantage of it. For every pro-whatever t-shirt, they will sell an anti-whatever t-shirt, etc. And they will sell. Just not to me. Or to my friends. And they know that. I just don't think they care.
May 25th, 2007 11:52
I think it's important to note that Cafe Press doesn't design their products. They just print other people's designs (many of which are really stupid) on tshirts, coffeemugs, buttons, stickers, etc. WHEN THEY'RE ORDERED. Lots of this stuff exists only on the web and may never actually be printed.
Exhibit A:
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/messenger/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_15185771/opt_/fpt_/c_360/
I think you'll find that there are far more pro-bike designs available through Cafe Press than anti-bike.
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/bike/-/cfpt2_/copt_/cfpt_/source_searchBox/x_0/y_0
May 25th, 2007 11:52
It would be better to just not purchase the products and not write about them here. They are grateful for the outrage, I'm sure.
May 25th, 2007 11:57
Nothing announces a stubborn, chauvinistic ingroup/outgroup mindset quite like a bumper sticker.
May 25th, 2007 12:01
Freedom of speech is only OK if they are saying something you agree with! I am going to buy one right now!
get a life people!
May 25th, 2007 13:12
I spoke with Cafe Press a couple of times over this today. The first time, they assured me that they were working on the problem and the second was to say thanks for the fast action.
The offensive items are gone, as near as I can tell. They took care of it and deserve kudos for that.
By the way, freedom of speech ends when it endangers others and sure as shooting, there would be someone out there crazy enough that they would act on the message.
May 25th, 2007 13:12
Hate speech, is hate. Pure and simple. Funny and cute hate speech may be entertaining but it does not change the message
May 25th, 2007 13:14
yeah, the sentiments voiced are ignorant crapola, but i'm not about to try & censor them.
May 25th, 2007 13:16
We should encourage people to buy these, because when they hit one of us, or come close, and we sue their ass and/or they get prosecuted, it will make the perfect evidentiary exhibit for establishing intent.
May 25th, 2007 13:20
Carl's got it right. None of this stuff belongs to CafePress, the company is an outlet for _anyone_ to have products available which are printed on demand. If you want to complain, you should complain to the store's owner, not CafePress.
Same goes for the pro-Iraq war, anti whatever else stores.
Also agree with Felix, this is freedom of speech, and everyone has that right. Until these folks start running over cyclists in some malicious way, they have the right to print whatever they want and I encourage them to do so. I also encourage some excellent, humorous pro-cyclist, anti-car propaganda. ;)
May 25th, 2007 13:21
Well, I personally thought they were hilarious. We cyclists seem to have some thin skin. Don't buy it if you don't like it.
May 25th, 2007 13:27
Pah-lease people! This is NOT "hate speech". It might be knuckle-dragging douche-baggery, but it's surely not hate speech. It's like a "Big Johnson" shirt or a sticker of Calvin pissing on a Ford logo; it says more about the bearer than the target. For what it's worth, a LOT of cyclists are jerks to cars and I can see why drivers would have this mindset.
Making a "federal case" about it does nothing but make cyclists look thin-skinned and whiny. LET IT GO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4
May 25th, 2007 13:29
dave,
just to be clear. it seems to me the "federal case" comment was made in jest by the cafepress employee. no one is making a federal case about this.
May 25th, 2007 13:37
Johnathan, I know - but still... comments like Tom Stormcrowe's are what I was referring to. It just seems like a silly thing to let get under your skin so much.
May 25th, 2007 13:46
"It just seems like a silly thing to let get under your skin so much."
my skin?
dave and everyone else..
***Please understand that just because I write a story about something does not mean I endorse it. I'm just presenting information I came across. I am not advocating against CafePress. unfortunately I think many people automatically assume that a blog (especially one devoted to bikes) must always be trying to go after someone or rabble rouse. that is not the case on this site. I read this information and decided it warranted coverage. that is all.
in this particular case I agree that this issue doesn't warrant a huge outcry. I was surprised to see the League spreading an email about it.
May 25th, 2007 13:54
hey jonathan,
no one should assume that what you report on reflects your opinion unless you say otherwise; my feedback on here is generally just to voice my opinion on the matters presented. keep up the good work!
May 25th, 2007 13:57
Bumperstickers are for morons. Now we have to put our heads together and think of a non-bumpersticker format to express this. Perhaps a patch or one of those bathroom media signs they put above mens urinals. We'll win this fight cafe-something or another.
May 25th, 2007 14:33
Hmm, in honor of the bikepath/truck incident I made this:
http://home.comcast.net/~jnicholz/bikepath.jpg
May 25th, 2007 14:39
There are times when I really have to wonder how stupid I must be to STILL have faith in humanity after nearly twenty years of observing it. Give me another twenty, I'm sure I'll join the jaded masses.
May 25th, 2007 14:46
Dave that video is funny, thanks for sharing.
As far as the CafePress content goes.........Yawn,zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Jonathon, I see you dancing between opinon and factual reporting all the time. At least you worry about it, most of the press can't even recognize that they are doing it. I believe your opinons are of value, perhaps you should just rare back and write an editorial now and again. If you label it as such, perhaps your readers will see the other reporting as, well, reporting. Keep up the great work.
May 25th, 2007 14:53
thanks for that feedback coyote.
I do write editorials now and again. you can see some of them here..
one of my regrets about being so busy with daily news and stories is that I don't have time to step back and share my thoughts on the bigger picture stuff that I think is so important.
i have a lot of thoughts.. I mention them to friends but don't get the chance to share them on the site as often as I'd like.
so I'm working on getting some help with the site to free me up for more opinion pieces and larger, in-depth feature stories I'm eager to write.
that's why I also want to have monthly get togethers with readers at a pub or a park or something. to talk.
sorry for getting way off topic. i should probably just post stuff like this.
May 25th, 2007 14:59
This is what most petrol-burning motorists want to do, they want to kill us. That's why we've got to stay on our toes and never give in. I'm glad they managed to shut these guys down, I don't give a damn about free speech when they're spewing garbage like that.
May 25th, 2007 15:00
As a Cafepress shopkeeper I run into complaints all the time for my pro-Atheist, anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-fundie designs. You should see my emails!
I've had people tell me I was going to hell for having a Child-Free by Choice section in my shop. I've had people tell me they were turning me in to the FBI for some of my Duhbyah designs. I've also been offended by rightwingers who have shops on CP and sell designs that I consider disgusting and inappropriate.
But as much as I hate their crap and love mine, there is no fair way to censor everybody. I think CP does a fair job of it. For example, they pulled designs that mocked Saddam's hanging, did not allow shops to take advantage of 9-11, and will pull designs that advocate violence or groups that advocate violence such as Nazi crap. The list of what they've pulled is long and I agree with most of it.
But if the lines are drawn too tightly then those who have designs pulled for being too rightwing will also have designs pulled for being too leftwing. If you believe these sticker designs advocate violence, then by all means make your voice heard, but be prepared for other voices to object to things you hold dear.
It's a fine line as I said and in the end it's what sells that determines whether it's appropriate or not. Cafepress is just one venue to get those items printed and to market. You can buy iron-on kits at most any store and make your own and once again the market will determine whether anyone sees it.
In the meantime, the designer of the offensive sticker probably loves the attention you've brought him or her. The best way to treat people like that is to ignore them. By doing so their designs just disappear at the bottom of the thousands of designs uploaded daily until someone notices one and says something or buys it.
May 25th, 2007 15:06
CafePress is getting what they want from the media...attention. They are in business to not only make statements and use their freedom of speech rights. But most importantly...to make money. People in this country do far worse to make their livings. From selling and manufacturing f'd up drugs, to politicians eating out of lobbyists hands. Give it a rest.
May 25th, 2007 15:28
Okay, I'm not saying this is "hate" speach, but it does seem to be encouraging violence, right? Remember when everyone was all upset about that radio station talking about this same kind of thing? Objectively, it's kind of funny... But really, stuff that encourages any kind of violence is probably not helping anything.
May 25th, 2007 15:46
It would be better to just not purchase the products and not write about them here. They are grateful for the outrage, I’m sure.
Alan has it right: "banning" this kind of thuggish language only makes it more attractive. When a six year old lifts her skirt over head, the smart reaction is to turn away.
May 25th, 2007 16:41
Jonathan -- I meant the royal "your" in "your skin" not necessarily YOUR skin in particular... as a cyclist I guess a better sentence would have been, "we shouldn't let this stuff get under our skin so much."
Cheers all
May 25th, 2007 16:57
In the name of tolerance and freedom do not accept malicious speech that is intended to incite violence.
I have no problem taking a stand against speech that incites violence, which that is exactly what this bumper stickers and icon do.
There is nothing funny about “stay the fuck off the road asshole” and picture of cyclist flying through the air after being hit by a car.
If you can’t differentiate this from individual’s right to express themselves then you have lost the ability think objectively, in my opinion.
I might feel a bit more compelled to look at this as a freedom of expression debate if the author was not hiding under the cover of anonymity. Because of this, Café Press can full responsibility for this for-profit content. As cyclists we can fight against the message without feeling like we are NAZI book burners or thin-skinned sissies.
2¢
May 25th, 2007 17:29
Dave, as to being thin skinned, I was nearly clipped this week, so yes, maybe a little thin skinned, but what can I say, I just don't want to encourage a mindset that potentially sets me up as a target of opportunity. I tour solo and get fairly remote as far as areas go, and don't particularly want to be knocked into a ditch to die by a loonie that was triggered by the idea.
There are people out there that take the mindset and suggestion seriously.
May 25th, 2007 20:05
"As cyclists we can fight against the message without feeling like we are NAZI book burners or thin-skinned sissies."
The accuracy of Godwin's Law never ceases to amaze. Nice work, everyone.
Johnathan: I love your blog and I read it daily and I appreciate all the info you provide.
May 25th, 2007 21:11
Censorship is definitely not the answer, ever. Rather, if CafePress offers the choice to buy a bumper sticker advocating running over a cyclist, it would only be fair and balanced to also have a bumper sticker of a cyclist holding a gun to the head of a motorist. Hmmm, I wonder how many complaints they would get then, maybe it would even be labeled eco-terrorism, and perhaps be chastised by the public and removed for fear they would loose business.
May 26th, 2007 14:42
There are some things that are just not in 'good taste'. This ads endorsing running down cyclist are one of those.
Historically, people who sit back and not speak up have been attributed to causes such as (1) Holocast (2) Black surpression , etc. When people rise up to speak out, we have positive changes such as Women's Rights to Vote, Civil Rights Movement,etc.
Don't take things too lightly. Small things make big mountains sometimes!
May 27th, 2007 00:41
Yes there is "free speech", but showing a car hitting a cyclist goes beyond humor or satire or anything else you want to call it.
Anything that promotes violence just isn't funny.
Period.
May 27th, 2007 07:38
Anti Cyclist Products Cause Spark Complaints...
"The League of American Bicyclists is leading a charge to voice complaints about anti-cyclist products being sold at popular web product retailer CafePress."...
May 27th, 2007 12:47
I don't think it would be any differnet than a sticker with "U-lock Justice" printed on it and a pictogram of a car driver getting knocked in the face with a U-lock by a cyclist.
May 27th, 2007 16:21
I totally disagree with any censorship or infringement of freedom of speech. While I agree that those items are offensive, being offensive is not illegal.
That speech which we find most offensive is the speech that most needs protecting. (I can't remember who said that, but it was somebody really smart and important)
If those items are for sale, it's because some people have those feelings. If you shut them down, it doesn't make their feelings go away, it just makes them stronger and they feel persecuted and talk to their friends about how awful it is and pretty soon you've got a movement. If you want to counter the negativity, you have to meet it head on.
May 27th, 2007 23:08
Folks lobbying Cafe Press into removing offensive material from their store is not censorship. If you are confused, look the word up.
STAND UP FOR YOURSELF... or one day you may find yourself choking under the boot heel of men whose words and deeds you foolishly accepted because of your lazily constructed ideology.
May 27th, 2007 23:12
Anybody with those kinds of feelings doesn't really need such products to provide a voice for those feelings.
Eliminating such an option for the expression of those kinds of feelings doesn't prevent people from making them known in other ways we can hope might be more responsible and better thought out.
Expressions of certain strong viewpoints that can be funny and possibly serve a constructive function, made in discrete settings, take on the potential for something far less favorable when indiscriminately released upon the general public.
Knowing and deciding what to say, when and where, is a largely a matter of common sense.
I've been thinking about that idiot driving his truck down the I-205 bike path. Those are exactly the kind of people that indiscrimately expressed humor has the potential to release from whatever flimsy restraint against committing acts of homicidal activity they may possess.
May 28th, 2007 08:16
I commute to work 10 miles each way, so I consider myself to be a pretty hard core cyclist. I also drive a car, and let me say, there are plenty of other bikers I would like to mow down. Too many cyclists go just a little too far out of their way to assert their "rights" to the road. A little common sense and consideration from drivers of both vehicles would be apropos.
May 28th, 2007 09:28
"Folks lobbying Cafe Press into removing offensive material from their store is not censorship. If you are confused, look the word up."
fine. but how far away from asking your library to put away the books you find offensive? If you saw an anti-cycling book on the bookshelf would you want it removed from the library?
I just don't see how there is any safe way to go about this. And this is why I abhor political correctness. Again, That speech which we find most offensive, is that which most needs protecting. Think about those words. Soak them up. Take in their meaning. Think from another's perspective.
May 28th, 2007 11:00
What form of offensive material are we comparing here? Books in the library to trival crap in the form of bumper stickers and T-shirts that are marketed as some kind of latest cool trend accessory towards mindless and/or dangerous people?
If cafe press is so concerned about providing a voice to people upset with the presence and bad habits of cyclists, why don't they publish a book, or even a comic, a film a record, conveying that viewpoint in a constructive way? Bring the subject forward by way of a medium that freedom of speech protections can reasonably be ascribed to, and it will be rightfully defended.
Anything less is not a sincere act of freedom of speech but instead, merely a cheap ploy to exploit and profit from people's ignorance and inhumanity.
May 28th, 2007 13:18
Maybe reverse the message. I think a bunch of cyclists wearing the "I don't share the road" would be considered "edgy" and funny on this site. NO? The one about the laws of Physics are a perfect way to advocate safety.
There is some truly offensive stuff at Cafe Press. Don't worry, I'll bet these don't sell very well.
Remember: lights, helmets, don't ride drunk, respect traffic signals, and keep your middle finger down.
-Ian
May 28th, 2007 13:49
"kill 'em all, and let god sort 'em out"
huh, I bet that would make a popular t-shirt...
May 28th, 2007 20:25
Actually, two "I share the road" stickers can be cut up to create one "I shred the road" sticker.
May 28th, 2007 21:33
this bike is a pipe bomb!
May 28th, 2007 22:29
Saw this on NerF Ling's bike : DRAFT SUV DRIVERS FIRST
May 29th, 2007 10:36
When I spoke with a CafePress content editor, it was NOT to censor them or, ironically, even ask them to pull the materials. Two reasons, one personal, one professional. Personally, I just wanted to let them know that I felt these statements were in bad taste because they advocated violence against a specific group, (which is in fact the legal definition of hate speech - through oral, written or graphic depiction). Now whether hate speech would hold up in court against the boundaries of free speech is something that plays out every day around the world. A dozen countries have specific hate speech laws, in this country we have hate crime laws but, as far as I know, hate speech is a very gray area in the USA and prosecuted with mixed results.
Thing is, I love a good joke, wit, etc. and try not to get in the way of free speech - but find it necessary to stand against the advocation of violence, no matter how clever, against any specific class/group of people - whether those are people I like or those I get bad vibes from...
Professionally, I never asked them to censor anything, but they decided that my article was going to make a "federal case" out of the thing as soon as I told them that I wrote primarily about outdoors, cycling etc. - as a columnist interested in gathering quotes and info from cafepress staff, I told them I wanted to do a story and would like to get the owners email to contact him/her directly - since they said that wasn't possible, this made them the conduit/defacto agent of the material so I conducted an interview. I asked, if based on these products - singling out cyclists as targets for vehicles, would they approve and/or have a problem with the following shirts:
1. Hang A black man
2. Castrate A Pediphile
3. Beat up gay people
4. Hummer drivers should be die in gasoline fires
...and so on.
This is when the person I was speaking to went from flippant to somber. We had a rational discussion. I wished him a happy holiday weekend and said I wanted to hear back from a company rep for the article.
Regarding whether we should all just lighten up, I feel that as cyclists we are not in a power position as a subculture, we should do EVERYTHING in our power to model quality riding, safe behavior when we are out there... AND we should stand up to the advocation of violence against us in a rational measured way, but not only when it comes from clear channel or sold in volume at Target - Vonnegut, may he rest in peace, was once asked if there is ever a time to let threats of violence against groups or individuals slide " Well, for awhile there, Hitler was just a failed art student making idle threats in the pubs."
We all must choose are battles. I use my influence to shed light on those who suggest we should hurt each other - and I make no apologies for it. Free speech is a pricky one, but let's not pretend it's going to all work out if we just let everyone say anything - everything in life needs boundaries, very few on freedom of expression but I draw mine when you want to do anyone harm - I had a lively discussion with a driver in a Jeep last weekend sporting the bumper sticker "GIVE WAR A CAHNCE!" Free speech? Yes, Hateful... come on, this guy wants MORE war. I did not deface it, or suggest he take it off, I just talked to him.
I sincerely liked the comment that inciting bumper stickers actually warn those around cars and trucks of who is behind the wheel. The only problem for cyclists is that if we are looking at the rear bumper of a car, then the danger has passed... of course it could circle back around ;-)
Plus, while I hold out hope for my species, I know us to be tiny creatures intellectually speaking, mob mentality is never far from the surface, and I have confidence that such bumper stickers and shirts could influence someone with a 3000 pound vehicle to use cyclists as sport.
I'm selfish on that subject, because that's me and my family and you, my extended family out there in the bike lane. (yes, even if we disagree)
Cheers,
Joe Kurmaskie
http://www.metalcowboy.com
May 29th, 2007 11:25
Joe (post 48)and all - for those of you who are interested in the intersection between freedom of expression under the 1st Amendment to the federal Constitution and hate speech, this is where to start:
R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul - a case involving enhanced sentences for cross-burning
a link to the opinion is here:
http://tinyurl.com/2xxl92
May 29th, 2007 11:32
Joe: Thank you for the thoughtful post.
I drive to work from the inner SE side. My work requires me to leave my office once or twice a day and go to places such as those twin Nirvanas, Beaverton adn Gresham. So that's my excuse for not riding a bike.
In any event, were I inclined toward bumper stickers at all, I'd have a "Share the Road" sticker on my car.
Every day, I encounter the gawdawful right side merge over the bike lane and into a bust stop area at the West end of the Hawthorne Bridge. And every day, I am fearful that I might hit a biker despite watching the bicycles as I cross the bridge, signalling a right for the last half of the bridge and down the slope to the first light, and multiple mirror and over the shoulder checks.
I think most people driving a car on any given day are as worried about the potential of striking a bike as I am - at least among downtown commuters.
And I know the people on bicysles are even more worried - for good reason, but not because people in cars are out to get them. Rather, because on a bike, a person is much more vulnerable than a person in a car or "SUV."
All of us, whether on foot, bike, car, semi truck, motorcycle, skatebord or unicycle, should treat each other as we'd like to be treated.
May 29th, 2007 11:51
I am constantly amazed at the two-faced behaviour nearly everyone participates in, cyclists included.
I haven't seen any objections to the "DRIVER = ENEMY" graffiti found all over Portland or any other vehemently anti-driver bullshit.
For the last year I rode 14 miles a day (each way) to work and didn't own a car.
I just bought a car, because I now am required to drive for a living (a good living I might add). I've become the enemy apparently, and must divorce myself from the bike culture I've enjoyed here.
Having sat on both sides of the transportation coin for some time now, I have to say that auto-drivers are a friendlier bunch.
And I definitely don't see people cruising down the road in the wrong direction in autos on a daily basis...
May 29th, 2007 11:55
I need to make a slight correction to my description of RAV - it was not an enhanced sentence case (in which the hate speech is not itself a crime but can impact the sentence for the underlying offense) but, rather, a case involving a statute criminalizing the speech act itself. There's a big difference and I apologize for the misconstruction.
May 29th, 2007 12:38
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ~John F. Kennedy
May 29th, 2007 13:01
Raspy (#51),
Then you obviously don't work in downtown Portland. ;-)
Seriously, though, until they ripped up the transit mall, I saw motorists drive on the bus portions, or the wrong way on one-way downtown streets 2-3 times a week, sometimes more. This is despite multiple large signs and pavement markings. When I drive, motorists frequently cut me (and everyone else) off, do not let drivers from driveways or side streets into traffic, etc. Motorists are just as bad as cyclists.
Personally, I have a big problem with DRIVER = ENEMY. It promotes an adversarial mentality which is IMO only sometimes required. 99% of the drivers out there are not deliberately targeting cyclists. Motorists are not the enemy, and neither are cars. The enemies are inattentiveness, ignorance, impatience, and inconsideration.
The greatest enemy to cyclists is any person (especially behind the wheel of a large vehicle) who is not paying attention to the road, is ignorant of the laws regarding cyclists and our right to be on that road, is in a hurry to get somewhere, and who doesn't care if he almost sideswipes us while passing us.
"Get the **** off the road, *******!" is not very considerate.
(In general) In any case, none of us is censoring that guy. To censor someone, you have to have the power to shut them up. We don't have that power. We're just complaining to CafePress. You could argue that *they* are now censoring this guy, but that's not true either. They are a commercial enterprise, and they don't have to allow anything. Nothing is stopping this guy from starting his own website promoting these shirts/stickers/posters/whatever.
We're citizens - we have the right to complain, or not complain, and CafePress can decide whether that warrants any control over people's content. They could as easily proclaim that they are defenders of the First Amendment, and refuse to pull anyone's material.
Okay, that's more like $0.04, so I'll stop there.
May 29th, 2007 15:46
I am sticking with my original comment.
I don't ride nearly as much as some of you (I only average about 5,000 miles a year) but I have been hit, nearly missed a dozen times, had stuff thrown at me, ran off the road, etc. All the typical cyclist stuff.
I still have trouble believing that these stupid shirts have the power to do anything. The guy driving on the bike path didn't do what he did because of a bumper sticker...
An 'impeach bush' sticker isn't changing anyone's mind who isn't already on your side...and I also don't think those cheesy 'party naked' shirts are actually making anyone take their clothes off.
Of course its tasteless humor, but I think when people start making comparisons to the persecution of the jews, black oppression, etc it becomes a little hard to take these arguments seriously.
Metal Cowboy was a good book btw...
May 29th, 2007 19:55
I agree with the sentiment that you should speak out against threats of violence. Speak out against it! But without silencing the threatener. I happen to think that the hate speech legislation is the first step towards losing our freedom of speech and although I may be in the minority (as you can be assured, I am not a hater in any way, shape or form) I am against it. I honestly want to hear what people have to say and I want no one to EVER live in fear that they may be punished or imprisoned for something they say. I guess I draw the line at actual and specific threats of violence for which restraining orders can be granted (but a restraining order doesn't convict someone of a crime). There is no threat of violence in those bumper stickers any more than there is a threat of violence in a violent TV show. Merely depicting violence doesn't constitute a threat.
You guys are missing the point - you can't silence people just for being offensive!!! That is the whole reason for HAVING the first amendment right to freedom of speech. There is no issue with protecting speech about sunshine and rainbows. If you didn't find it offensive, it wouldn't need protecting. Duh!
So yes, speak out against the things you find offensive. State your opinion. Engage in a dialogue. Communicate. Listen. Until we start treating political topics and foreign/domestic relations the way a marriage counselor would, this whole world is doomed. Anybody every been to marriage counseling? If you have, you probably remember that both parties get to say exactly how they feel, both people are expected to listen to the other and no one is wrong for how they feel. Then you work together to reach consensus with a deeper understanding of the other's perspective. Try and think about the reasons that drivers might be feeling frustrated with bikes. Is it because they are evil people who want to see the earth and all it's inhabitants destroyed? Ummm... I highly doubt it. Is it maybe because of experiences they've had with different cyclists on the road? Maybe. Is it because of perceived attitudes of arrogance from cyclists? Quite possibly. What can cyclists do to meet this head on? Maybe we need town hall meetings with drivers and cyclists. Increased education for both drivers and cyclists. A better and stronger counter campaign. There are all sorts of more productive things than just shushing them which only pisses them off (whether you call it censorship or not, that is how they will feel) and makes them feel empowered towards greater violence.
May 29th, 2007 23:12
Why would anyone buy any bumperstickers or other signage for their vehicle that practically invite vandalism? Screw censorship, this problem sorts itself out.
May 30th, 2007 00:23
Oh if only every person behind the wheel was as deeply thoughtful as the kinds of persons "the sanity" seems to be thinking of in post 56. In reality, this doesn't seem to be the case.
Given that the population behind the wheel is, with certain exceptions, accurately representitive of a broad cross-section of the public, we can reliably presume that some of those drivers are at least, borderline incompetent. And even worse: crazy, homicidal maniacs. Nuts out for bodily harm or murder, for whom their motor vehicle is a far more comfortable, more disguisable baseball bat.
Bumperstickers and T-shirts might not be the single source that compels these headcases to do a deed on a hapless person, but you know, it wouldn't surprize me at all if this stupid cheap crap made them feel just a little more in the mood to have a little 'righteous' fun with someone weaker then them; bicyclists, old ladies on crutches, kids with ice cream cones, etc, etc.
I don't want to pass any laws that says some outfit like Cafe Press can't have their obnoxious fun. Maybe they could just use a little more common sense in what they put before the entire public.
May 30th, 2007 08:21
Good points wsbob. I will also venture that cyclists also represent a cross section of society and that means we have incompetent riders, arrogant Fabios, angry tools masquerading as "activists", unskilled hipsters riding fixies, and other assorted jerks in our ranks.
The vindictive motor psycho or dumbassed teenaged prankster is very over represented and given too much publicity on bike blogs. If one thinks about it, we are no better than those who see a news story about a single black or Hispanic crime suspect and then starts mouthing off about how ALL minorities are to blame for society's woes.
The cycling community really disappoints me sometimes. I guess we are not all that special - just people with prejudices and insecurities like those we disparage.
May 30th, 2007 11:37
"The cycling community really disappoints me sometimes. I guess we are not all that special - just people with prejudices and insecurities like those we disparage."
Exactly - just because your politics might be liberal doesn't make you open-minded. you are only open-minded if you are willing to listen to people you DON'T agree with.
I don't think that there are very many homicidal maniacs running around, somewhat of a rarity I'd say. I think there are a large number of people who are frustrated with cyclists because they DON'T want to hurt anyone and it sometimes feels like it's hard to avoid. I know this because when I talk to people, I actually listen and I don't start arguing or shut people down just because I disagree with what they're saying.
May 30th, 2007 23:35
According to the League of AB, CP removed the shirts - yet the battle for Timbuk2's humorous rape ad goes on...
http://www.wimnonline.org/WIMNsVoicesBlog/?p=597
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/05/359914.shtml?discuss
http://www.nowpublic.com/timbuk2_bags_launches_humorous_teen_rape_ad_campaign
Exercise some free speech and let your opinion on how funny rape is be known at pr@timbuk2.com and CustomerService@timbuk2.com
May 31st, 2007 01:25
You would have to be very touched in the head to relate that ad to rape. Or a single minded zealot. Perhaps both?
It is a disgusting ad, though it obviously has absolutely nothing to do with rape.
It also has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
July 27th, 2008 10:15
What I'm getting from this is that the cycling activist groups are completely intolerant of people showing alternate opinions on the issue, but its totally ok to have a bazillion stickers all about "share the road" and of things like giant fists crushing cars. I never knew activist groups could be so cowardly.
July 27th, 2008 21:40
I got my order in.
How true. If only Portland Bikers were as excited about being alive as they are about being right.
That will be a day we can all rejoice!!
Bikersnazi's are more like a religion they do not support any such thing as "Free Speech" To them it's Orthodoxy or burn in hell.
I want a shirt that says.
1. Running Red lights
2. Splitting lanes
3. Not Signaling
4. Over crowding bike lanes
5. Intimidating Peds
6. Riding in vehicles blind spots
7. No Lights
8. No Helmet
Who's to blame? CAR DRIVERS!!!
July 28th, 2008 11:05
U-Lock Juctice is more than a slogan Myra, be careful out there. ( I don't have a U-lock, so this isn't a threat )