On a picture perfect early fall day in Portland, Goveror Kotek convened with Mayor Keith Wilson and a coterie of local elected officials for a press conference in Waterfront Park. The gathering was a response to President Donald Trump’s threats to unleash the full force of the American military on Portland. It’s needed, the unhinged wannabe dictator said, to put down what he believes is a “war-ravaged” city where roving gangs of Soros-funded left-wing radicals run amok.
Over the din of chattering tourists disembarking from a Willamette River cruise ship and water rushing through nearby Salmon Street Springs, Governor Tina Kotek said, “Portland is doing just fine.” The press conference was held a half-mile from a bustling Saturday Market in the shade of the historic Rose Building.
Kotek said she spoke on the phone with Trump for about 10 minutes this morning, telling him the situation at the ICE building in South Waterfront is under control and there’s no need for federal forces in Portland. “Our city is a far cry from the war-ravaged community that he has posted about on social media, ” Kotek added. “And I conveyed that directly to him.”
“If President Trump came to Portland today,” Mayor Keith Wilson said. “What he would find is people riding their bikes, playing sports, enjoying the sunshine, and buying groceries or produce from a farmers market.”
As speakers addressed the media, there was a constant stream of people walking, rolling, and bicycling on the path behind them. It was a perfect illustration of the wide gap in reality between Trump’s version of Portland and the real thing.
Despite this calm, there’s concern that Trump’s provocations will see renewed, large-scale protests at the ICE facility in the coming days and weeks. When Portland Police Chief Bob Day was asked by a reporter to speak about what his officers have learned since the 2020 protests, Day said he’s, “Really proud the way the Portland Police Bureau demonstrates its ability to be a learning organization.” Day said they’ve enacted many recommendations from critiques from both inside and outside the agency — including having “dialogue officers” that wear different uniforms and are trained to communicate directly with protest organizers. “We are in support of peace for Portland… Officers will be held accountable that do not adhere to our directives or our policies, or state law.”
Whether or not federal troops make their presence felt here in larger numbers in coming days, we’ve already had ICE agents scooping up Portlanders in deportation raids.
The group Portland Contra las Deportaciones (Portland against deportations, or PDXCD) is planning a mass protest at the ICE facility on SW Macadam tomorrow (Sunday) at 4:00 pm. “We will not stand down, we will not be quiet. Trump and his racist goons have no place in Portland! Come protest with us and show that Portland demands an end to ice and federal terror!,” reads the event description.
At today’s press conference, Governor Kotek urged folks to “not take the bait,” echoing the sentiment shared by Mayor Wilson at a press conference yesterday. “Property damage or violence of any kind will get us nowhere and will not be tolerated,” Kotek added. “If you want to stand in opposition to the Trump administration, I would ask that you lean into supporting your community, helping people, making things better here.”
The tone from leaders was resolute, firm, and calm. There was no righteous indignation or fire and brimstone. Kotek, Wilson, and others told important truths about Portland that need to be heard right now. Flanked by local and state police leaders, they succeeded in showing a united front that isn’t looking to pick a fight, but seem capable of having it if/when one starts.
Please make plans to join us this week at Bike Happy Hour. Immigrant rights activists from PDXCD and Revoke ICE Permit PDX will join us for a community discussion in the plaza. We’ll discuss their campaign, learn what to do if you see ICE agents in your neighborhood, and how bicycle riders and safe streets activists can use the tools we have to make the community stronger in the face of rising federal aggression.
Thanks for reading.
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You fell for the Troll in chief as did all the other elected officials.
He has yet to send troops to Chicago after trolling them for 2 months.
If I was Wilson, I would welcome 500 fit young men to our city and give them trash bags and graffiti clean up tools and make use of federal labor….
This is just our deranged Prez throwing red meat to the Morons who listen to him.
Stop doing that.
Six or seven hundred years ago workers were paid in beer. What they couldn’t drink they sold. With 75 or so craft brewers in the area, perhaps we could do the something similar for these “fit young men.” Of course, they’d have to check their weapons at the door.
I see your point, and it’s correct in general. But not in this specific case. When a wannabee dictator threatens your state and city, you need to be seen as fighting back. There’s zero downside to doing so – politically or morally.
Yes. This is Trump’s Gestapo.
One of the things I dislike about white liberal politics, is the incessant minimization of and apologia for violent xenophobic fascism.
One of the things I dislike about “serious” leftists is they glorify our Clown in chief
By taking him seriously…
The same way the Tech Oligarchs do.
You are the people who give the clown his power.
Its the military and ICE who give him power. States dont exist without the police forces that get to violently uphold the laws.
No, he has what power he has because 77 million people voted for him.
What the hell? No, the fact that he’s the president (and that liberals have continually expanded the police state giving the president more power) is what gives him his power.
He’s not going to disappear because you pull the blanket up over your head.
He is a 79 year old ***name calling deleted by moderator. JM*** game show host with a 40% approval rating.
It’s hilarious you think he an intelligent and all powerful much like his MAGA base does.
He is already backing down on sending troops here and he is more afraid of comedians who make fun his hair than anyone else.
The usual strawmanning, as to be expected from you.
“you think he an intelligent and all powerful much like his MAGA base does”
Completely fabricated from whole cloth. Point to the place where anybody said anything like that in this thread.
He IS doing the things, he IS sending troops / activating national guard. This is not up for debate. So the FACT that he does this means he has the power to do this.
It is true that he will eventually disappear due to old age, so if you want to pull the blanket over your head and pretend he isn’t there, eventually you’ll be right, but 79 years old means he could last another 3 terms easy, and who would take over if he died? Vance? Like he’s going to do anything different? This is the Republican party at this point, this is what they want. We better figure out an actual strategy for dealing with it beyond hoping it goes away.
Show any facts that point to anything he is doing that is popular?
He can’t run for another term so your scaremongering that he could serve 3 more terms is exactly what Trump wants you to think.
The people who are successful against him are the people who mock him (Newsome, Kimmel, etc.)
You think he some all powerful Oz character when he is just a buffoon. He is not Orban or Hitler who are/were actually intelligent people.
People like you who put him in that category are gaslighting and strawmanning, not me.
No, you mean to say he’s not SUPPOSED to run another term. We shouldn’t let that happen, but ultimately nothing is set in stone. His second win was a big surprise given his unpopularity, he is a buffoon, and yet here we are. He sucks, yet someone has to stand up to him because yes, indeed, he is doing illegal stuff right now and nobody is stopping it.
Lol, look up the term strawman, I think it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
He’s not going to run for another term (and if he tries he will be on, at best, a handful of ballots, splitting the Republican party). That’s pretty set in stone as far as I can see.
Don’t be bamboozled by Trump’s crazy talk. It’s exactly what he wants so you don’t spend too much time thinking about who might come next.
Yeah, sure.
1. Vance-Trump wins (via gerrymandering and harsh voter suppression).,
2. Vance resigns.
3. Trump sworn in as president (with nary a peep from the MAGA supreme court).
Anyone who believes that Vance would not gladly play Medvedev to Trump’s Putin is a fool.
That’s pretty far-fetched, especially because Trump is not qualified to become vice president. See Amendment XII.
Maybe he’ll become speaker of the house, and have two stooges resign?
Wishful thinking because there is no constitutional prohibition on Trump serving as Vice-President and then serving as an un-elected POTUS..
Moreover, there is an alternate route to a 3rd Trump term:
https://www.npr.org/2025/03/31/nx-s1-5191889/is-trump-running-for-a-third-term
Congress cannot make Trump eligible for the office of Vice President. I’ve got plenty of other more plausible things to worry about, like 5G chips in my covid booster; a Trump 3rd term doesn’t even make the list.
And in any event, I highly doubt anyone is going to want Trump to stick around; voters are already weary, and his inner circle see him as their ticket up the golden escalator, but he’s got to get out of the way first.
So, like I said: Yeah, sure.
Will protestors show up with megaphones to shut down the conversation?
lol, no i think they’ve got bigger fish to fry down at ICE! They’ve been waiting for this with excitement i’m sure. Well for once I agree with them i guess.
Possibly ones in uniform. Which side are you on?
Or maybe the peaceful Antifa fascists will show up, get arrested, and then go on hunger strike to get themselves heard. Oh wait, they only know violence, not constructive negotiations, or conversations.
Stop trolling.
Anti-fascist fascists? What is that nonsense? And what violence exactly? Do you mean the Proud Boys who came down in 2020 and caused the vast majority of violence?
And antifa is a wildly diverse political movement, not a group, and far from monolithic. It is made up of everyone who is not a fascist, or a fascist sympathizer, like apparently you.
Hey Sky, funny how you call out SolarEclipse for intolerance but seem to overlook some of antifa’s own heavy-handed behavior—blocking speech, shutting down opposing views—doesn’t that sound a bit fascist to you? Fighting fascism by acting like fascists? That’s some irony right there.
Also, about your claim that Proud Boys caused most of the violence in 2020—if you dig into the reports, the vast majority of the serious fires and destruction actually came from far-left groups/Antifa, not the Proud Boys. It wasn’t a one-sided street brawl, mate. So maybe before painting everyone with the same brush, it’s worth looking at the facts. Extremists of all flavors are to be condemned not just the ones that don’t lean your way politically.
Intolerance and violence come from all sides, and it’s not always as black and white as your narrative makes it seem.
Lol, ***This portion of comment deleted by moderator for name-calling. – JM***
Being intolerant of intolerance is a good thing. If you are tolerant of intolerance then you just legitimize it. No one should ever be tolerant of fascism.
Stop being profa
“Being intolerant of intolerance is a good thing.”
Being intolerant of extremists is even better.
Do you think telling people that you’re the arbiter of tolerance and label things that very normal people believe as fascism will get people to come over to your side or will they just get comfortable being called fascists (a much worse outcome, no?).
Whatever you call the “movement”, or the people who broke windows in Portland for 6 months in 2020, the closest parallel group to them in history were the Brownshirts in Germany in the 1930’s.
I was in Hollywood the night these creeps came through and broke windows in local owned business while people were inside the stores and it was terrifying.
Remember when they vandalized the Hollywood Theatre and their PR person said this?
I cancelled my monthly membership / donation and never looked back.
Are you pro fascist? Anyone that is against fascism is by definition is anti facist. The fact that drump has declared that being anti facist is now considered domestic terrorism, should be a red line in the sand for all true patriotic Americans. Which side do you stand on?
If you think anti fascists support fascism, then you believe they support he following:
Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Common themes among fascist movements include: authoritarianism, nationalism (including racial nationalism and religious nationalism), hierarchy, elitism, and militarism. Other aspects of fascism – such as a perception of decadence, anti-egalitarianism and totalitarianism – can be seen to originate from these ideas.
You can be opposed to fascists and also opposed to antifa. Not only is it possible, it describes the vast majority of Americans.
Just say no to extremism, whatever the politics it cloaks itself in.
You can be opposed to fascists and also be opposed to ‘murrican “moderates”. Not only it it possible, it describes the vast majority of people who do not believe in the fantasy of ‘murrican manifest destiny.
There is nothing as amusing as how much extremists hate moderates. There is nothing as enjoyable as leaving the internet to be reminded that 90% of people are moderates.
Wild to think that manifest destiny is a fantasy and live in a city that only exists due to it being real, and successful.
The vast majority of moderates are pretty far right. The vast majority of left wing extremists are people who just want single payer healthcare and free college.
I think this is helpful, continue to tell people that hold very pragmatic and defensible positions about how society should work and the individual’s responsibility to the collective that they are far right, that will work splendidly.
“The vast majority of left wing extremists are people who just want single payer healthcare and free college.”
I can see it now… Antifa attacking the Oregon Historical Society over health care policy, and rioters destroying the PSU library because they want free college.
I have to say that as of today, I am very, very glad that Trump and the Republican Congress do not control my health care, and I feel great sympathy for those for whom they do.
There is no such things as Antifa as an actual real significant group. That is made up by the media and this administration. To be anti fascist, to be opposed to fascism as you say, is all the word means.
Sure, there are some small organizations that co-opt the name, but antifa is an idea.
That is what dump 1.0 could never understand. They tried so hard in 2020 to link the protests to some huge antifa organization and they couldn’t no matter how many protesters they kidnapped off the streets. People just showed up to the protest when they heard there would be one. Someone made a flyer or put the idea in social media, and Americans showed up. Simple as that.
The right, being of a hierarchical mindset, can’t grasp that people on the left don’t need a leader or organization to guide them to protest something that they feel is wrong.
Self-declared Antifa rioters certainly helped cement the illusion.
Yes, some declared themselves antifa, as in they are anti fascist, not that they are part of some nationwide or worldwide organization in a similar way as when someone declares themselves declared a proud boy which is an actual organization with leaders, chapters, meetings, trainings and bylaws.
It’s like someone saying they are a patriot during J6, that doesn’t mean that they were in an organized group called the patriots. Though there were organized groups who committed violence that considered themselves patriots.
That is why dumps executive order last Monday is so terrible, it can literally mean he can target anyone that is opposed to or protesting against him as someone aiding or providing support for antifa. This should be very concerning to everyone that believes in democracy, freedom of speech, and the constitution.
It would be like if Biden had declared patriots a terrorist organization after J6 because people called themselves patriots.
Critical Mass used to claim the same thing — they were (supposedly) leaderless, and therefore couldn’t be required to get ride permits — the rides were, after all, just a group of individuals who happened to be riding alone together at the same time.
It kind of made sense to me at the time, but when you took a step away, it was obviously bullshit and it didn’t fool anyone. (That didn’t stop me from riding with them, of course. Had I been detained, I would have denied it, but I certainly regarded myself as part of “the mass” despite meticulously following the law on those rides.)
Antifa is the same thing — they may not be handing out membership cards or have a singular leader or a handbook, but they are clearly organized and “exist” in some fashion.
You’re playing a semantic game but it’s not particularly effective.
As for Trump’s executive order, it does not mean he can target anyone protesting (whatever that means). It grants him exactly zero new powers, and can only be read as a statement of intent (and reveals very little we didn’t already know). He is still bound by the same laws he was before he issued the order. Scaremongering only inflames an already volatile situation further.
And a final note: Trump is not Voldemort; you can use his name. When you call him something like “dumps” it just makes your post harder to read and understand.
I guess we will disagree on this. To me, it does matter, and it seems to mater legally (or at least should) if they actually are an organization, with a leadership structure, or, just a bunch of likeminded individuals showing up and using similar tactics they read about online. It doesn’t seem like semantics to me, I actually don’t believe they are an actual real organization. At least not in the way the executive order targets, but I hear your point of view.
I don’t claim Antifa has a formal leadership structure, but all human groups (declared or not) have a hierarchy, whether explicit or implicit. It’s just the way humans are.
But leaving that issue aside, why does it matter? To the extent it does anything at all, nothing in the executive order depends on whether Antifa recognizes leaders or not, just as the city was not deterred on cracking down on CM because we claimed to be (and to a certain extent actually were) leaderless and spontaneous.
If Trump is intent on using the FBI to crack down on Antifa (as always seemed likely once his higher priority enemies had been dealt with), he will, no matter how you or anyone else characterizes the organization. They’ll probably handle this as they did the also leaderless Jan 6 rioters… use video to identify and roll a bunch of folks up, use their social media to show intent, and prosecute anyone they can find a basis for.
(And no, Fred, I’m not drawing an equivalency between Jan 6th and protests at ICE in SW Portland.)
The results do speak for themselves.
I am not understanding the point you are expressing. Could you elaborate?
The frantic running around protesting the latest injustice du jour without direction or leadership has resulted in what? What is the big win?
I wrote the A word on a newspaper box, still waiting to get my membership card and marching orders. Also, Mr. S. is a few paychecks behind for my recent attendance at marches, etc. Call that an organization?
Antifa is not an organization. You can not be opposed to Antifa because Antifa is a political stance.
Well, you can be opposed to antifa, but that just makes you profa.
If you are against fascist, you are antifa.
But you seem to have bought into the propaganda that antifa is some organization.
I don’t accept your binary. I am opposed to anyone who would use violence to achieve political ends, and that includes fascists and anti-fascists.
And no, I do not think Antifa exists as a formal organization, and I don’t think the “we don’t exist” trick is fooling anyone. It didn’t help the Jan 6 rioters, for example, or those committing acts under the ELF banner. The world is filled with non-organization organizations.
The whole point of this stunt (if it even happens) is to provoke. If no one helps them put on the media show they want, we’ll have troops doing nothing and it will look like the colossal waste of resources that it is.
Even if many thousands of troops arrive, they can’t do much. As a purely practical matter, getting around, dealing with food and shelter, keeping their armored vehicles fueled, and the like dramatically limits where they can be and what they can do.
Even near the ICE facility, what can they hope to accomplish? Seize the area so people can’t go out to buy groceries, go to work, or receive medical care in the South Waterfront? Open fire on surrounding apartment buildings, homes, and businesses?
Heck, practically the only thing they can do is tangle with people who show up to engage them.
If people face them head on, they’ll get the media show they want complete with excessive force and cruelty that helps their narrative and contributes to an atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Even people getting hopped up thinking about this stuff plays into their plan.
Keep the faith, ride your bike, and treat this like the nothingburger that it is.
Very likely the soldiers will view this whole thing as a paid vacation in Portland on the Federal dime (i.e. all of our tax dollars at work). If they come at all, it will be national guard from throughout Oregon and/or army from Ft. Lewis near Tacoma, personnel who are already familiar with Portland.
I think the point of these exercises, aside from boosting the ego of a certain person and upsetting a certain political party, is to rotate the service of our military a bit, since unlike most of his predecessors he isn’t sending them to new or continuing obscenely expensive wars overseas (last I checked we hardly have any in Iraq and none at all in Afghanistan for the first time in decades), and unlike our progressive European allies, he’s not offering to send them to the Ukraine.
You miss the point of what is going on when a nation’s formed military force is deployed facing its citizens. This is one of the issues that a revolution was fought over as British troops were quartered on civilian households and employed to enforce colonial government mandates. It’s ahistorical to call it a nothingburger when trained military personnel are shipped in from out of state to confront peaceful protesters.
Not missing the point at all, and I agree the whole thing is seriously messed up. But it helps them if you give them what they want — namely direct conflict. There are many other ways to resist occupation which are much more effective and safer for you.
This isn’t entirely like cycling — you don’t want to be “dead right.” This has the potential to be way worse than Kent State (for the history challenged, it’s a famous incident where National Guard shot and killed peaceful protesters)
The military is much more limited in what it can achieve with soldiers and weapons than people think — this is why the US war record against opponents with no budget, no integrated command and control, no air power, and no armor is abysmal, most recently in Afghanistan.
I actually once lived in an area before where tank traps and barricades on the main boulevards were a thing, and where normal citizens walked by soldiers in armored vehicles and carrying all sorts of weaponry as part of daily life.
There’s no need to hide or avoid these guys if they show up. But I wouldn’t confront them directly since that’s the only thing they’re equipped to handle. Better to let them experience directly how irrelevant they are by making sure they can’t do anything.
I refuse to normalize the presence of troops armed for war in my town. You brought up Kent State, I guess for you it’s (only) “…four dead in Ohio”. The weapons soldiers carry can kill or maim at such a distance that people who are uninvolved or unaware may be the ones who are hurt.
Question: if National Guard troops are present, will they be holding rifles loaded with live rounds? And, what will they think is their mission? Further, will their officers give them orders to shoot, and will they obey?
I do understand the argument that this is a provocation and they, the actual fascists pushing this agenda, want a reaction, want confrontation. Well I am provoked. Let them stand down, go back in their holes.
National Guard troops are considered to be citizen soldiers. I didn’t choose to do that thing myself, but friends and relatives did. Should those folks be put in a position where they are ranged up against their neighbors in shorts and T shirts, or work pants and a cloth jacket as I was?
Don’t offer me Afghanistan as an example. Is it not clear that sending in military force was a mistake for all the people who did it? Let the people in power learn from that, the lesson is for them.
Which is why you’re protected with both the 2nd and 3rd Amendment. You have the right to defend yourself against a tyrannical government and you don’t have to house them. If you have enough support, it should be no problem.
What a great day for a bike ride! Took the kids down to Central City and cruised the brand new pavement on 4th. Did some bridges and east bank promenade. Got cookies at Water Ave Coffee. Saw a train go by. Biggest disappointment was OMSI being closed for a private event so we rode the aerial tram instead then took the bus back up the hill to SW. War ravaged for sure.
We won’t allow rioters to stop ICE from enforcing the law. Full stop. Millions – the majority – voted to remove all illegal immigrants from America, and Congress affirmed that by giving ICE a budget larger than many militaries. The voters have spoken.
Stop gaslighting. We are the majority, we had an election, and your side lost. Elections have consequences, and now we will systemically destroy the systems of power you used to violate our inalienable rights with masks, vaccines and lockdowns. The American way of life is simply utterly not subject to negotiation, and 2A ensures that will remain permanent.
Hi Vladislav. Been a long time. So because you feel you were asked to wear a mask, get a vaccine, and stay home during a pandemic, you are saying you think it’s reasonable for the federal government to shoot innocent people to keep “your side” in power. Wow. That’s pretty dark. And pretty sad. Hope you reflect a bit and consider what this means.
Jonathan, respectfully, we just had an election on this very issue. I am not sure why you’re surprised my comment as the majority of American voters decisively backed this exact viewpoint?
Yes, we will not allow the American way of life to be changed for any reason. Our global exceptionalism is deeply rooted in the willingness to sacrifice any number of lives to maintain freedom and capitalism. No other nation is willing to do this, and 2A will ensure that never changes.
I disagree with you on this Vladislav. I don’t think a majority of Americans voted for this. I find it impossible to understand how anyone can support what Trump is doing — and recent polling makes it crystal clear that he doesn’t have anything near a mandate.
And what is this “American way of life” thing you refer to? That is a term that changes depending on who you talk to about it. I personally think our shared project as Americans is to always strive to make changes that make America better. So to me, the idea that anything about America would not be changed “for any reason” is just something I don’t understand. Thanks for the conversation.
A majority of Americans did vote pretty explicitly for the removal of people in the US illegally. They may not have considered what that actually meant, and may oppose the means by which the administration is carrying out Trump’s promise, but the underlying goal has (had?) political support, and is supported by current law.
I do think it’s likely that a majority are dismayed with how Trump has approached the deportations, even if they support the underlying goal.
Don’t fall into the obvious trap of opposing Trump’s tactics to the extent you start expressing support for people breaking the law. That’s how Trump got elected in the first place (at least if you believe those who think the immigration/border issue was a significant contributor to Trump’s popularity).
If you really want to support people living here illegally, fight to get the law changed so they can remain here legally. We’ve done it in the past, and we could do it again.
Around 55% to 65% of the folks in the USA who are eligible to vote have voted in all previous US presidential elections – the other 35-45% were either unable or chose to not vote. Given how close most presidential votes are, it’s fair to say that no presidential winner has ever gotten more than 40% of the eligible votes available. However, in our country, our constitution doesn’t particularly care about the number or percentage of eligible voters or who got more than somebody else – not at all – but instead who got a majority of electoral college votes – a majority in enough individual states to get 270 or more electoral votes. It’s the way the game is played folks, as imperfect as it is, and everyone who runs knows that ahead of time, bitch as they might about the results.
And so the statements of
or
are pretty much on par with saying that the UN ought to ban death.
I mean, they probably should ban it. Death is bad.
“You came from nothing and you’re going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!”
Nonsense. Trump didn’t win a majority of Americans. Yes voters, but shrug.
If you are referring to the bipartisan propensity to deport people, I agree, but then I’d point to the lack of turnout as evidence that people aren’t super motivated by either side (even with Trump as a motivator!). Since we don’t have actual options for candidates that don’t support deportations, your option is to vote for deportations or not vote.
The whole topic is astroturfed anyway. Nobody in their day to day life has any motivating reason to want deportations, but both sides were willing to use immigrants as a scapegoat for various problems not related to immigration, like inflation.
Are you new to economics? Do we not know that more consumers of scarce goods increases the price? Have we never heard that once there is an abundance of labor wages are so depressed that the government has to step in to mandate a price floor? Can you not draw a straight line from printing money to fund Medicaid coverage for illegal immigrants and the devaluation of our currency (inflation)?
The economic impact of immigrants can certainly be debated. (I happen to work in an industry that has a lot of immigrant workers with whom I compete.) But the idea that medicaid benefits going to undocumented people (and keeping our increasingly strained medical system functioning) is one of our big problems right now is ridiculous. The republicans are taking away medicaid from many citizens and legal noncitizens residents through onerous paperwork. The beneficiaries will be screwed and so will many rural hospitals. We need more social spending, not less. Get a grip.
Wow, paperwork? That’s terrible, because I’ve never been required to spend 15 minutes before any doctor appointment filling out paperwork, provide ID and an insurance card to receive any medical care that I pay $25k per year in premiums and have an annual $8500 co-insurance bucket to fill before somebody pays for my healthcare. So, you’ll have to forgive my complete and utter fatigue with ideas that just perpetuate the structures that maintain this system and kick any reform down the curb by trying to make people feel guilty for expecting to get something from the system they pay for. By all means though, send your money to whichever rural healthcare facility you’re worried about.
Do you think the situation with your insurance (the cost to you and your employer, the quality of your service, etc.) will get better or worse if (when) more people lose benefits like medicaid or ACA subsidies as the so-called ‘reform’ proposed by republicans calls for? I’m not expecting you to feel guilty for ‘expecting to get something from the system [you] pay for.’ I’m pleading with you to acknowledge that our broken medical system is a collective (social) problem and that blaming immigrants (of whatever legal status) is cynical and dishonest political scapegoating that is effective because it plays on base emotions. There is no “straight line from printing money to fund Medicaid coverage for illegal immigrants” to anywhere — just a contorted line that travels through right wing craziness.
Trump did not get a majority of votes in the 2024 presidential election. He did win a plurality (beating Harris by about 1.5%). He does not have a big mandate and won a closely contested election. Your point that Trump enjoys an amazing amount of popular support (a near majority of the participating electorate) given the unapologetically nativist, patriarchal, transphobic, etc. nature of his campaign and his arrogant disregard for American law and custom is undeniable and deeply, deeply troubling. Republicans do enjoy a level of popular support that I find personally dumfounding. So, in addition to changing law, we need to persuade some of conservative America that White nationalist Christian theocracy is not the way forward. But we also need to forcefully resist. I think the biggest thing holding back the American left is their well-earned reputation for being able to lose any contest of political power no matter the circumstances. We need to stand up and show up for our people.
Yes, you are right. I overstated my case.
Nonetheless, a majority of Americans (including many Democrats) do want immigration law enforced, even if they think that the tactics Trump is currently using are disgusting and terrifying.
Yes people (including me) “want immigration law enforced.” I concede that immigration ‘enforcement’ is an animating issue for the right wing and is pretty popular with the politically disengaged, including a lot of dems and left-leaning folks.
I don’t, however, think legal immigration status is the well-defined binary attribute many casual immigration restrictionists think it is. I further think that lots of legal immigration tactics, like claiming political asylum with a dubious case or intentional birth tourism, seem unfair and really get people wound up, while, simultaneously, lots of illigality is innocuous (e.g., contributing members of society overstaying employment- or education-related visas). Dedicated haters are explicit about opposing any (nonwhite lower class) immigration regardless of the law. “Regular” people are personally warm to immigrants, but want things done by the book. The rub is that the legal means of immigrating to the US are pretty limited. If the illegality of the migration is the issue, just make immigrating legally easier. Problem solved. If the problem is that you don’t think brown people belong here, that’s a harder nut to crack.
My personal experience is that people (in red and blue America) are mostly supportive of immigrants they have a personal connection with. Nevertheless, they can be politically activated with anti-immigration propaganda. Somehow the other immigrants are scary, unlike the ones in their neighborhood. I’m not sure what to do about the situation, but I’m crystal clear that US nativism is not something I’m ever going to be down with.
How can you say that majority of Americans didn’t vote for this when most things Trump is doing are decisively backed by US Congress – namely the funding for ICe as a core example?
Then simply consider each change that the left has tried to implement under the banners of COVID, BLM, climate change – these are the exact changes that we simply won’t allow.
You think the changes you want are “better”. We had an election about this. You lost.
I voted to have every single illegal immigrant removed, because the issue is the census which decides distribution of funds (ie liberal places that allow illegal immigrants end up with extra cash) and congressional seats (ie those same places will lose seats when all illegals are deported). This is basic fraud we’re ending – it’s not complicated to understand. Census counts ALL people – not just citizens, so the only solution is to remove the illegal immigrants from this country.
The constitution and legal system covers all people as well, so that removal has to be done legally and constitutionally. It’s up to the courts to determine exactly what that means, but if Trump’s current tactics haven’t crossed the line, they seem to be pretty close to it.
But, importantly, the courts and Congress are the proper place to sort that out, not the streets.
Among the things on your list, if you could disallow climate change, that would be a good use of your powers.
Both the US House of Representatives and the POTUS elections were very closely split between the two dominant parties. The republicans only control the house by a few seats, and congress has not passed much legislation. The only significant new law (OBBBA — one big bunch of bullshit act) doesn’t actually change any immigration law. It does militarize the deportation gestapo, but the biggest thing it does is enact huge permanent upper class tax cuts and SNAP and medicaid cuts. It’s a huge wealth transfer to the upper class cheered on by a bunch of lower and middle class folks whose racism and bitterness have been exploited. So I appreciate that you voted for all this, I just can’t figure out why.
Just some numbers to back you up, Jonathan. What’s-his-name is underwater on every issue: immigration, deportation, the economy, health care. Here’s a chart from G. Elliot Morris, “Strength in Numbers” substack:
https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
When compared to Obama and Biden, both fell from larger shares of approval to disapproval over the same 9-month period as both Trump’s first and second term. It’s almost like politicians lie to get elected and then people feel the let down, over and over and over.
What’s-his-name is in a league of his own:
Not really; he started from a lower point, but followed a similar trajectory as everyone else.
The singular line on that chart is Bush, and even his popularity decline resumed apace after the immediate effects of 9/11 diminished.
How? Obama dropped from +55 to +5 in 12 months for a 50 point reduction. Biden dropped from +22ish to -10 for a 32 point move to the downside. Trump first term dropped from +5 to -17ish for a 22 point move and so far this term has dropped from +10 to -10 for a 20 point move.
If anything, that chart seems to show that Democratic presidents start to smell bad faster than Republican ones, but even that may be overreading the data.
This is a giant leap. The conclusion is that Democrats are more popular, and that Obama is a disappointment because he didn’t deliver on the more radical sounding campaign he ran on. He was a disappointment BECAUSE he wasn’t enough “not like Republicans”.
“This is a giant leap.”
It’s actually not a leap at all. It’s just what the chart Lisa posted shows. Obama and Biden had a steeper downward trajectory than the Republican presidents. I proposed no explanation for that observation.
I did note that there is a danger of reading too much into the slope of those lines, such as your conclusion that Obama’s and Biden’s slipping polls were due to lack of radical policy accomplishments of the kind you wish to have seen. Maybe (or maybe not), but I am far from convinced that your policy preferences are shared by more than a small sliver of Americans.
I think it’s important to note Trump won a majority of 2025 voters – not a majority of Americans (or even voting-age Americans). I don’t think it’s a secret lots of folks stayed home; I have my own theories as to why, but that would open up a whole ‘nother can of worms that would derail this specific thread.
Trump did not win a majority of votes in 2024. He got 49.8% of the popular vote, which is less than half.
You are delusional if you think that every Trump voter wants “every illegal deported”. This has been widely reported and its very easy to look it up, so I’m not really sure if you are just trolling or actually believe this. Either way, your language is extreme and I think you should seek help.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/03/26/americans-views-of-deportations/
Chris, from the very link you provided, here are the data points – although you’re correct it’s not all, the fact is majority of the voters who elected Trump want this:
I’m glad that we can both agree that the above statement is false.
Registered republicans only represent 12% of the US population and, evidently, >80% of that small minority are ******es.
I don’t recall conservatives just falling into line once Obama, and then Biden was elected by the majority, and I wouldn’t expect them to. We shouldn’t reshape our society through threats of the military and force just because one side finally won an election. That’s not America. That is what fascist do.
Raise you hand if you’re tired of seeing the joyful experience of riding a bicycle dragged into the ugly world of anti-American political movements.
America First fascists may be ruining your bike rides but they are doing far worse to other Portland-area residents. Please have more empathy for others.
Yes, fascism is anti American
Just so we all know what is really coming as we argue amongst ourselves https://www.npr.org/2025/09/30/nx-s1-5557232/hegseth-generals-trump
Yet a person used their giant SUV as a weapon against ICE around the Chicago area over the weekend. I’m glad that at least the FBI has her. She damaged the curbs on a street that was under construction there.