PPB Captain gets driver’s license suspended as part of reckless driving, DUI charges

(Image: KATU)

On June 28th just before 2:00 am, off-duty Portland Police Bureau Captain Steven Jones was arrested for DUI after crashing his city-issued SUV in the Lair Hill neighborhood. A witness reported that Jones was driving “at a high rate of speed” on SW 3rd Avenue near Arthur when he lost control and veered onto the median, crashing into a light pole and a tree.

Cpt. Jones, a 23-year veteran of the bureau who was in charge of the Professional Standard Division, was driving with a blood alcohol content of .10.

“As law enforcement officers, we are held to a higher standard,” PPB Chief Danielle Outlaw said in a statement after the incident. “This will be thoroughly investigated.”

Today, the Multnomah County District Attorney’s office said Jones has completed a diversion program for his DUI charge. He filed a plea of “no contest” to reckless driving charges on December 5th. As part of his plea agreement Jones has agreed to pay $38,239 in restitution to the City of Portland and has received one year of probation and a three-month suspension of his driving privileges. Once he completes the probation his reckless driving charges will be dismissed.

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This is very troubling.

At the end of every PPB statement about a major injury or fatal crash, is this line:

The Portland Police Bureau is committed to working with our partners in government and the community to create safer streets and work towards reducing, and eventually eliminating, traffic fatalities as part of Vision Zero.

There’s something very wrong with PPB culture when one of their leaders thinks it’s acceptable to drink alcohol then get into a car and drive it recklessly through our city. We’re relieved no one was hurt or killed by Jones’ selfish and irresponsible behavior. We can only hope he’s learned an important lesson and that he’ll devote himself to raising awareness about the serious and rampant driving abuse epidemic in our city.

— Jonathan Maus: (503) 706-8804, @jonathan_maus on Twitter and jonathan@bikeportland.org

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Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)

Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)

Founder of BikePortland (in 2005). Father of three. North Portlander. Basketball lover. Car owner and driver. If you have questions or feedback about this site or my work, feel free to contact me at @jonathan_maus on Twitter, via email at maus.jonathan@gmail.com, or phone/text at 503-706-8804. Also, if you read and appreciate this site, please become a supporter.

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Racer X
Racer X
5 years ago

It would be great if the Mayor / PPB made him a feature of a PSA…even cops make mistakes and can work to be better…etc.

buildwithjoe
5 years ago
Reply to  Racer X

Great idea to do a video to help us feel better about cops

Video for police DUI sympathy can include:


a) cop got so much special treatment never given to non cops:
b) Cop was given a “special” judge,
c) DUI charges lowered to non DYI charges
d) all charges will be removed soon for a class,
e) cop is on paid leave for 15 months
f) while on paid leave he approaches his 25 year retirement goal 15 more months
g) he will “resign” and get a fat check every month for not working.
h) Never any jail time

That 23k payback for a wrecked city car is pennies to this cop, I bet he has a 2nd coast home.

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  buildwithjoe

I’m sure the captain isn’t going to be terminated, but you can bet that it’s practically ruined his career. You know every officer is chatting about him behind his back. Yeah, great career: 24 years he drove drunk and smashed his bureau car. He was put on administrative leave, had to clean out his locker, and became a mockery of his coworkers. No matter how good his career was, he’ll always have an * before his name… His life work is in the tatters.

If he goes to church, he has to hold his head down.
If he has kids, he has to explain to them his shortcomings.
Most likely, his neighbors will find out.
His school teachers will find out.
His kid’s friends may not be allowed to come over anymore.
You can go on and on… I think this guy will pay for his wrong doings…

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

That is a long, sad list of consequences.

Here’s something to counter that:
“Bureau of Justice Statistics survey reported that over one-third of responding state and local police agencies would consider police applicants with a prior DUI conviction (Reaves 2012).”

(from the same report I quote below)

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

Great, 33% of the police departments in the country would consider you a police candidate with a prior DUII conviction. But were talking about someone that’s already been sworn in, not an applicant.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

Keep reading.
Apparently actual police departments have even higher shares of alcoholics among their ranks.

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

The alcohol consumption is only discussed in reference to being a police officer, not before the fact. I know to become a Portland police officer, you have to go through an extensive psychological review, which they dissect alcoholism at length. Prospective officers are either telling the truth about their alcohol use or they’re lying. Either way they’re screened for abuse.

Mike Quigley
Mike Quigley
5 years ago

Sounds like you’d like to cut him some slack ’cause he’s a cop. What if he’d killed someone? Thoughts and prays for the victim as long as he promises not to do it again?

Racer X
Racer X
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike Quigley

No slack offered. The intent of such PSA is to show sunlight on this and the culture of “policing” in Portland.

We (and the Mayor) must hold PPB Chief Danielle Outlaw to her statement:
“As law enforcement officers, we are held to a higher standard,…” “This will be thoroughly investigated.” So far the path, such as diversion does not sound like a “higher standard”. Time will tell.

soren
soren
5 years ago

We need to lower blood alcohol limits to 0.02. It should be illegal to drive after drinking any appreciable amount of alcohol.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/speeches/T-Bella-Dinh-Zarr/Documents/05BAC-Safety-Briefing-Facts.pdf

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  soren

While that PDF does support a reduction to 0.05, the data it presents suggests there is no gain to be had in going as low as 0.02. I am open to the idea that such data exists, but it’s not what this document shows.

Q
Q
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Zero tolerance.

soren
soren
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

please note the text box that indicates loss of visual acuity at 0.02. by setting the limit substantially lower than the level that results in serious impairment we make it clear that any level of impairment is not tolerated when operating dangerous heavy machinery.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  soren

The text box does indeed note that, but the empirical data from NL and SE suggest that there is no real-life benefit to the lower standard.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

We might as well stop anyone from driving (or cycling for that matter) if they don’t have 20/20 vision.

Q
Q
5 years ago

False equivalency..

Matthew in PDX
Matthew in PDX
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

For me, the reason to go to 0.02 is to send the message that it is not safe to operate a motor vehicle on public streets (or bicycles for that matter) after consuming any quantity of an intoxicating substance. When I was younger and lived in Australia, the PSAs focused on how few “drinks” it took to get you over the 0.05 limit, which is two “standard” drinks. The trouble is people would say, I’ve only had one drink, but that person’s metabolism might not be typical, and that drink may be larger than one “standard” drink.

It is better to tell people “If you’re drinking, you’re not driving.” The 0.02 standard allows for the small amount of alcohol that is generated by the fermentation of sugars in the human gut.

Ted Timmons (Contributor)
Reply to  Matthew in PDX

Well said. Thank you Matthew.

I wear many hats
I wear many hats
5 years ago

Lower the BAC limit and put in check points already. This police person likely knew that there was only a 1% chance they’d get caught. There is literally NO deterrent to bad /dangerous/drunken driving.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago

Checkpoints are unconstitutional in Oregon.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

You are right; however “saturation patrols” are pretextual stops, for something minor like a tail light malfunction, when the real goal is to check if the driver is drunk.

Pretextual stops are what creates problems with racial bias in traffic enforcement (ordinary enforcement does not show much), and while legal, are, in my view, ethically problematic.

This is a classic means-ends type of tradeoff. I suspect many here support any means that achieves a desirable end. I tend to think the journey is as important as the destination.

HJ
HJ
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Frankly I’m at the point where I don’t care. If you’re doing anything wrong while driving, you get a ticket. Period. I’m done with this leniency nonsense. IT’S KILLING AND MAIMING PEOPLE. Heck, send those saturation patrols up into the white rich entitlement zone (aka the west hills). We desperately need it up here. That’ll solve some of your bias issues. I’m sick and tired of having to resort to public shaming on Nextdoor as my only vaguely effective recourse to get people to change their behaviors on the roads I travel every day.
34 years, I’ve never seen the traffic laws enforced up here. All the drivers in the area know it too and drive accordingly. Every day when I go to work, regardless of whether I’m driving or riding, I’m wondering if it will be the day that my luck runs out and I get slammed into head-first by a driver crossing centerline at 45+mph. Or by a driver deciding to execute a sandwich pass. Because there have been so many close calls.
In fact, I’ll even go so far as to suggest a perfect pretext for them, license plate covers. They’re illegal and a surefire sign of a horrible driver.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  HJ

It might be helpful to remember why we don’t have much traffic enforcement these days. Part of it is the lack of police, but a lot is due to the reaction to problems arising from pretextual stops.

soren
soren
5 years ago
Reply to  HJ

If we can add Eastmoreland, Irvington, Laurelhurst, and Ladd’s Addition to that list, I’m with you, comrade.

“The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest [person] on earth”

— Ernesto Guevara

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  soren

That’s right. Give the rich the full protection of the law, and let the poor kill one another in the streets.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
5 years ago
Reply to  soren

Che Guevara was a mass murderer. Not sure why you would use that quote.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-che-guevara

soren
soren
5 years ago
Reply to  soren

as you know very well*, i believe the primary role of the “police” in this society is not to enforce the law but to keep rich people safe from the people they exploit and oppress (e.g. my comment was obvious sarcasm.)

the idea that “enforcement” is necessary is also a perfect example of car head. MADD proposed mandatory ignition interlock systems decades ago. the main reason that these ~$50 devices are not be mandatory for all large motorvehicles is because we as a society consider 40,100 deaths to be “normal”.

*because you’ve argued with me about this many times.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

It makes perfect sense to me; the police are not supposed to conduct a “search” without individualized suspicion. I support that. I don’t want the police to have the unfettered right to stop and search whomever they like with no reason to suspect they’ve done wrong.

You may not agree with that (which is fine, it’s a balancing act), but I don’t think you could argue the reasoning is “bizarre”.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

It doesn’t matter what you or I think; the courts have ruled the Oregon constitution does not permit such stops.

It’s a little different than a fruit stop because you don’t face arrest at those. They do seem a bit like the immigration checkpoints I’ve passed through in Texas, some distance from the border. Those appear to be legal for reasons I don’t fully understand.

I think there are creative ways to conduct a sobriety evaluation without intruding on anyone’s rights; set up an obstacle course with barricades, or position yourself by a bend (like where Couch merges with Burnside), and watch for drivers who do not handle their vehicles well. Now you have a non pretextual reason to pull someone over on suspicion of being impaired.

Or just do actual traffic enforcement and arrest anyone who turns out to be drunk.

hotrodder
hotrodder
5 years ago

I wear many hats
This police person likely knew that there was only a 1% chance they’d get caught. Recommended 2

Or if caught he’d be given safe, quiet passage home with a wink and a pat on the back and no citizen would be the wiser.

Q
Q
5 years ago
Reply to  hotrodder

Exactly, b/a% and checkpoints wouldn’t matter at all in this situation when cops clearly cover for each other anytime there’s wrongdoing that a private citizen would be facing jail over.

B. Carfree
B. Carfree
5 years ago
Reply to  hotrodder

In Lane County, our former DA decided to go to work for the state police. While on his training duty with another officer supervising him, he was called to a location where a drunk off-duty Eugene cop had thrown his gun at his date, which scared her silly. This former DA declined to get a BAC number for the drunk cop even though it was so clear he was driving drunk that the DA drove him home.

This sort of behavior breeds incredible cynicism. We really need to tighten up our laws regarding drunk driving and the discretion cops have during suspected drunk driving stops.

bikeninja
bikeninja
5 years ago

Here is an idea, Lets have drivers licenses that allow you to drive a motorcar and drinkers licenses that allow you to buy alcohol in a restaurant, bar or liquor store, but here is the catch, you can only get one or the other not both.

footwalker
matchupancakes
5 years ago
Reply to  bikeninja

If this were an alternate-reality, fiction novel I would buy the book to read based upon this description.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
5 years ago
Reply to  bikeninja

As long as I get to carry around my gun while doing either, I am fine with that 🙂

Todd Boulanger
Todd Boulanger
5 years ago

All good ideas, but the first major step must be to get the frequent drink-driver offenders off the street…no more 10 strikes and you are out. Given some of the details in this case…I wonder if he has had other incidents that may have been kept from the public eye?

9watts
5 years ago

“… off-duty Portland Police Bureau Captain […] his city-issued SUV …”

Why is he driving a city-issued vehicle at 2am while he is off-duty? Maybe this is standard practice, but it seems odd to me.

paikiala
paikiala
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Ironically, because supervisors are on-call 24/7 in the event they are needed for an emergent situation. Not sure how you have a social life with such practices.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  paikiala

I was with you until you got to to the last part:
“Not sure how you have a social life with such practices.”
?

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Because they’re always on call, can’t drink, go out of town, etc..

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

No one is forced to choose to become a cop. If the package of perks and constraints is not to their liking then they should consider pursuing a different career.
As for always being on call, my hunch is that like fire fighters and doctors and nurses, cops work in shifts, which means there are shifts when they are not on call.

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

I agree, no one is forced to become a cop. My concern is a lot of these officers are addicted to the earning potential. They work their normal shifts, pick up OT, and then are on call. Some officers go weeks without a day off. It’s there own doing, but it’s also a failure of the system. I don’t know how common it is, but some cops will work a 20 hour shift, sleep at the precinct and then work another 20 hours. The money is good, but the psychological impact is long lasting and I imagine hard to cope with, even if it is their own doing… And then when they’re all done, they have a long car commute to boot.

Middle of the Road Guy
Middle of the Road Guy
5 years ago
Reply to  paikiala

That’s a good use of public equipment – he created an emergent situation with one.

q
q
5 years ago

One question will be whether this experience will make him less tolerant of drunk drivers, or more sympathetic to and lenient towards them.

Buzz
Buzz
5 years ago

If he wasn’t a cop he wouldn’t have gotten off this easy.

paikiala
paikiala
5 years ago
Reply to  Buzz

Evidence?
Any citation evidence regarding, presumably, first (caught) offenders and their sentences?

Kristent
Kristent
5 years ago
Reply to  Buzz

From the article:
“As part of his plea agreement Jones has agreed to pay $38,239 in restitution to the City of Portland and has received one year of probation and a three-month suspension of his driving privileges”

I don’t think paying $38,239.00 in restitution as getting off too easy– plus one year probation and a 3-month suspension of his driving privileges.

For a lot of people, $38,239.00 is a LOT of money.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Kristent

“For a lot of people, $38,239.00 is a LOT of money.”

That is not terribly relevant. A lot of people are not being asked to pay that amount; this police captain is, and I bet the salary he has been receiving all these years, not to mention the pension he will get, is lot more impressive than the wages of those people you have in mind for whom that would be a lot of money.

allciti
allciti
5 years ago

It’s quite telling that a staffer in the mayor’s office was fired for driving a city vehicle home (and being less than forthcoming about it) but this officer still keeps his job.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  allciti

Is it equally telling that a city staffer might also be fired for bringing a loaded gun to work?

Ted Timmons (Contributor)
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

[citation needed]

paikiala
paikiala
5 years ago
Reply to  allciti

Police supervisors regularly bring home work vehicles, all over. County Sheriffs, etc.

Todd Boulanger
Todd Boulanger
5 years ago
Reply to  paikiala

Yes, this is a common “deal” across the nation – the original intent was to provide for quicker “professional” response time with police equipment at hand vs. having to go to their station…and secondarily as a “deterrent” to crime in the areas closest to the marked cop car when seen on the street by the bad hombres..

[Honolulu has a bit different of a policy…most HPD cops use their personal cars that are outfitted with official police lights, etc. and then they get reimbursed for official use…thus making the car less expensive to own or allowing a more expensive high performance car to be bought affordably – my memory of the policy.]

buildwithjoe
5 years ago

Let me rewrite your headline.

“Cops let other Drunk driving cops take a class, then get a clean record. DUI cop gets paid leave as they coast into the last 16 months of their retirement, then _resign_”


In related story, pedestrian on sidewalk killed #BenCarlson and cops refuse to give traumatized driver any citations.

This is the bike leadership in Portland. Bike Loud has leadership who say you need to politely work in the system. Street Trust is letting the state gain 10% deaths a year and the street trust literally calls ODOT billion dollar freeways built into middle school back yards….”much needed”

…. And here on Bike Portland Jonathan is well aware that cops refused to cite a driver should have stopped and remain stopped for bikes on a “greenway”. The result was that a PSU student was mowed down, and cops say no “laws broken” Was there a story, was there any mention. Nope.

This “no laws broken” quote is the exact same cop mantra we hear over and over with dead and injured cyclists and pedestrains. This quote from the city staff said when I demanded chargers for the killer of Ben Carlson.

Everyone in transportation leadership in this town with the exception of Eudaly, Hardesty and a few rare PBOT staff should consider being a bit more loud and honest.

.
.
.
I’ve shifted my 10 dollar monthly subscription from Jonathan to a Portland Freedom Fund for getting poor people the bail freedom for people with privilege

paikiala
paikiala
5 years ago
Reply to  buildwithjoe

As with Buzz, please provide evidence this is not normal for first (caught) offenders.

A good follow-up would be to find out if this is a first offence in this case.

Expecting any person to be perfect is unrealistic.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  paikiala

“Expecting any person to be perfect is unrealistic”

Classic.

Expecting that everyone makes mistakes—including cops driving drunk—is not a society I’d be proud to be a part of.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Apparently you do not want to live in a forgiving society. I do.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Not sure how you derived that from my comment.

I am all about forgiveness, but I’m about accountability, and holding ourselves to a high standard first. What paikiala suggested didn’t sound auspicious to me.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Expecting perfection is not the road to forgiveness. Understanding people, even officers of the law, are flawed and make mistakes is.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

I’m not following.
If I follow your reasoning there would seem to be no reason to have any proscriptions, laws, penalties. Because everyone is flawed, prone to mistakes, so get over it.

I don’t feel the need to apologize for having commandments, laws, behaviors that are proscribed. Driving drunk is easy not to do. for anyone, but especially someone whose job it is to nab those who fail to hold themselves to those standards. What is next, drunk airline pilots?

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

I would seek the least intrusive, least punitive mechanism to prevent bad behavior (accounting for other factors such as proportionality). In some situations, this means execution. For others it means a warning or a stern talking-to. For most it means something in between.

I don’t know what it means in this particular case because I have none of the larger context. But what I do know is that zero tolerance policies rarely yield optimal outcomes.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Cops are granted enormous power in our society. And once upon a time they also were held in high esteem by some segments of society. They get enormous pensions, may speed and carry and use weapons, drive home tax payer funded four wheel drive vehicles, etc. Most people don’t receive or enjoy all those perks. With that package of goodies comes, or should come, a higher level of responsibility, accountability.
My reason for objecting to paikiala’s straw man of nobody’s perfect is that such a blithe statement obfuscates these considerable differences, denies the power differentials underlying this system.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Let me clarify:

>>> Expecting that everyone makes mistakes—including cops driving drunk—is not a society I’d be proud to be a part of. <<<

You would not be proud of being in a society that expects everyone to make mistakes. Therefore, it stands to reason, you would only be proud to live in a society where at least some people never make mistakes. I.e. you would only be proud to live in a society where some people are "perfect".

That's how I got from your statement to mine.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

How expansive is this category of mistakes? Where do you draw the line?
I don’t think driving drunk is a mistake we should expect people in power to make. Do you expect airline pilots to OD on fentanyl while on the job? I prefer to think of the Rampart scandal as the aberrant behavior of murderous thugs rather than mistakes we should expect everyone to make.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

It would be foolish to think no pilot would ever take drugs on the job. The question is how to prevent it from happening.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

No need to pretend this is difficult.
Zero tolerance (automatic firing if caught) and random testing.

Just like we would if we took the challenge seriously.

Plenty of people manage to keep it together, avoid drugs, drive sober, not abuse women, minorities, pets, children, manage not to murder those around them. Let’s give the prestigious jobs which require top performance, full concentration, no errors, to those who can do that, and not reward those who can’t by making excuses, giving them lots of chances.

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Remember, he was in charge of the Professional Standards Division. I don’t know how professional it is to drink on the job. Most likely he was on call the night he was drinking, given that he wrecked his bureau issued vehicle… And if he wasn’t on call, maybe he should have been driving his personal vehicle.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

It is stated very clearly above that he was OFF DUTY.
If he was on call, the chances of him being fired for smashing the police vehicle while drunk go up considerably.

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

This is conjecture, but if he was in a bureau car, had a gun and badge on his hip, he might as well been on duty. Alcohol and a sidearm don’t mix. He should have been in his personal vehicle, with his sidearm and badge left at home… Maybe they were, but he was still in his bureau car.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Put another way, I think there is a world of difference between the straw man of
Expecting everyone to be perfect, and
Expecting our police force to never, ever drive drunk. I don’t think that is too much to ask. We should also expect them to never murder anyone, or to beat their spouses. Many, I’m tempted to say most, people manage to abide by those rules. Why can’t we have zero tolerance for cops violating those expectations?

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

I expect that there will be officers who occasionally drive drunk, beat their spouses, and commit murder. How could it be otherwise?

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Do you engage in those activities? I certainly don’t, nor would I expect anyone around me to tolerate much less expect those acts from me.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

I do not, and if I did, I would not expect tolerance. Nor would I grant it.

X
X
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Just as there are recent immigrants, ditto.

resopmok
resopmok
5 years ago
Reply to  paikiala

I don’t think the point is whether anyone is perfect, but that it is reasonable to hold officers of the law to a higher standard when it comes to committing serious crimes. Driving drunk is not really a mistake, it’s a willful decision which puts the lives of others in danger. We expect that those who have sworn to protect the law and public safety would make better decisions, and if they don’t, should be held to a higher standard of accountability.

HJ
HJ
5 years ago

In charge of the professional standards division. So the cop policing the police. And we wonder why we have problems? When the cop that’s supposed to be the shining example of adherence to laws even in law enforcement is doing stuff like this we can’t expect that the regular cops will enforce the laws of the roads either. Our entire law enforcement structure needs a complete overhaul where our road laws are concerned. Step 1, start actually enforcing them. No more letting people off with a warning, no more skipping enforcing them altogether because of concerns over “bias”. No more turning a blind eye. People are dying. People are being severely and often permanently injured. It feels like Russia where the only way you can get a driver cited/charged is by taking video evidence to court yourself. This is insane. We do not need to stoop to Russian standards. This is America, we should be better.
Believe me, when your loved one gets killed because of this you’ll be singing the same tune I am.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  HJ

Even where people have called the police on miscreants doing things like parking across crosswalks, they are attacked as racist.

X
X
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

That was a strange little incident. Most of the people getting away with lousy parking are white. It’s no wonder that members of one our most put-upon minorities felt, well, put-upon, and played the R card.

Lots of our ancestors came on a stinking boat but they weren’t chained down in the dark and brutally forced to work for free with no hope for their children, their children’s children. . .even their children with a person that our laws gave power to do whatever a lash could compel. Hell yeah, I’d still have my back up if that was me.

Maybe the person calling in the parking violation didn’t know whose car it was, but pushback from somebody who has lousy odds of being shot dead in an encounter with police is NOT a sign of the apocalypse.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  X

You’re trying pretty hard to make an unconvincing defense of someone who was 100% in the wrong, not to mention all those who piled on. But regardless, I agree, it’s not a sign of the apocalypse.

X
X
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Bad parking, and illegal parking, is a very common entitled behavior of car drivers of all descriptions. It usually passes without comment. Take a 20 minute cruise through your neighborhood and count the number of cars parked facing traffic. It’s not surprising that a person who is observably a member of a minority felt singled out.

9watts
5 years ago

Interesting:

“If an officer is convicted of a DUI while on duty it will almost always result in termination, primarily because drinking while on duty is considered grounds for revocation of an officer’s certification or violation of the officer’s employment contract. (In some cases, the officer is decommissioned, which means that the officer’s certification to be a police officer is terminated.) Often, an officer in such a situation will resign rather than face the disciplinary consequences”

https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/what-happens-when-a-police-officer-gets-dui.htm

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

But he’s not an officer, he’s a captain.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

Can you explain how you feel his rank affects the statement to which you’re responding? Do you think it invalid, and if so why?

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Yes, I’m suggesting his rank has something to do with him keeping his job, unfortunately.

9watts
5 years ago

More:

“A survey of police drunk-driving incidents and academic research shows a patchwork effort to tackle the problem: Some departments offer no room for a second chance, while others are more lenient. The extent of the problem is not known since state and federal agencies do not track drunk-driving incidents involving police.

Some departments, such as the Los Angeles Police Department, in recent years have told officers convicted of drunk driving charges that they have to sign a contract promising to stay sober and seek professional help if they want to keep their job, according to a 2012 Police Executive Research Forum article.

Police in Tampa, Fla., have no recourse after a zero-tolerance policy for officers arrested on drunk driving charges was imposed in 2009.”

“From 2005-2010, a nationwide study led by Stinson found 14 cases of police officers arrested for drunk driving who had been charged at least twice. That, however, is a fraction of the 782 incidents of police officers arrested for drunk driving the researchers tracked over that time frame – accidents that included 191 injuries, 91 cases of officers fleeing the scene, 26 times when officers flipped cars and 27 murder or manslaughter charges.

‘I would suggest there is a problem with police officers who drive drunk,’ said Stinson, whose data were published in a paper in 2013. ‘The problem is based on the police subculture and the sense of power and entitlement that some police officers have.'”

https://www.nj.com/union/index.ssf/2015/04/linden_police_wrong-way_driving_case_part_of_a_nat.html

Matt S.
Matt S.
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Or it’s because the job is extremely stressful and depressing. As an officer, almost all you do is worry about your safety and have negative interactions.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Matt S.

“almost all you do is worry about your safety and have negative interactions.”

Pretty unfortunate that we have gotten ourselves to that point, isn’t it?

It wouldn’t have to be that way. Cops the world over don’t automatically have terrible rapport with the public they are supposed to protect. We in this country took specific steps that landed us/them in that spot.

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Not every country glorifies the killing of cops in pop music. Cause our effect, probably both, but we have an unhealthy relationship with our police.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Definitely cause: our police have a troubling origin story in slave patrols
https://medium.com/s/story/slavery-and-the-origins-of-the-american-police-state-ec318f5ff05b

Hello, Kitty
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

That explains everything; I never realized it was so simple. Thanks!

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Hello, Kitty

Did you read the whole piece?

9watts
5 years ago

Matt S.
Because they’re always on call, can’t drink, go out of town, etc..Recommended 0

I think it is actually much worse than that.

I found this study absolutely fascinating: https://scholarworks.bgsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=crim_just_pub

including this section:

Scholars have recognized excessive drinking as a problem among police officers for over three decades. Studies conducted in the 1970s and 1980s estimated that as many as 25% of officers have serious problems with alcohol (Dishlacoff 1976, Hurrell, Jr. et al. 1984, Violanti et al. 1985, Dietrich and Smith 1986). Van Raalte (1979) found that 40% of surveyed officers had used alcohol while on duty (cf. Barker and Carter 1994, Mieczkowski 2002). Some have recently pointed out the methodological limitations of these early studies (see , e.g., Lindsay and Shelley 2009, Ballenger et al. 2011); but, more recent research that involves large samples of officers seems to corroborate the conclusion that excessive alcohol consumption is often “part of the police lifestyle” (Violanti 1999, p. 16).
Richmond et al. (1998) examined the lifestyle behaviors of 852 police officers and found that almost one-half (48%) of male officers and two-fifths (40%) of female officers “consumed alcohol excessively including continuous hazardous or harmful consumption and binge drinking.” (p. 1729). Davey, Obst, and Sheehan (2001) found that almost one-third (30%) of 749 responding officers were at risk of harm from excessive alcohol consumption. Ballinger et al. (2011) reported relatively high rates of binge drinking (five-plus drinks on a single occasion) among a large sample of urban police, with 37% of male officers and 36% of female officers reporting at least one episode of binge drinking within the prior 30 day period. Roughly 8% of police reported levels of drinking that indicated “probable lifetime alcohol abus e or dependence” (p. 25), and more than 3% reported consuming more than 28 drinks within the prior week. Alcohol abuse has also been associated with many forms of police misconduct, and re cent studies on problem officers provide descriptions of cases that involve intoxicated police engaged in various forms of misbehavior and crime (Kane and White 2009, Stinson, Liederbach, et al. 2012).

Todd Boulanger
Todd Boulanger
5 years ago
Reply to  9watts

Thanks for this line of research I was not well aware of.

9watts
5 years ago
Reply to  Todd Boulanger

Nor I.
The things one learns—is motivated to investigate—by hanging out here…

Ted Timmons (Contributor)
Reply to  9watts

Thanks for going to the effort to find evidence-based sources, 9w.

Joe
Joe
5 years ago

so LAME, all about money and power.. I hardly trust one cops these days.