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Ladds stop sign ‘trip-wire’ incident garners headlines

Posted by on July 22nd, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Live at 11! A plastic wrap booby
trap discovered at Ladds Circle!
(Screen grab from KATU-TV)

What started as a post to the Shift email list at 1:30 am yesterday morning has become the latest headline-grabbing story in Portland’s ongoing fascination with the “bikes versus cars” dichotomy.

It started with this email from Lauren Hudgins:

I just biked through Ladd’s Addition around 1am. Someone had set up clear tape like a trip wire across the road. Another biker and I stopped to dismantle it, assuming it was kids playing a prank and complaining about how dangerous it would be for someone on a bike, but not for cars. As we biked away, we heard a man’s voice calling from the bushes in Ladd’s Circle, “Thanks for stopping!”

The first outlet to pick up the story was The Portland Mercury. Soon after it was covered by The Oregonian and then it got TV coverage last night by both KPTV (Fox) and KATU (ABC).

KPTV led into the story with a “Bike Battle” graphic and announced that, “The battle between drivers and bikers reaches a boiling point…” After the intro, the story was actually quite solid and balanced. Kudos to reporter Andrew Padula for the nice job. KATU’s story wasn’t bad either. Both TV segments included footage of people on bikes and foot rolling through the stop signs without stopping and referred to the plastic-wrap hazard as being a dangerous, unacceptable act of vigilante justice.

Here’s the KATU video:

Unfortunately, just as expected, the online versions of both TV stories are filled with hateful, anti-bike comments. Oh well. I guess some Portlanders have yet to move beyond this nonsensical and unneccessary hatred for other people based solely on their mode of travel.

The issue of people on bikes not complying with stop signs at Ladds Circle has been around for years. A quick look into our archives on this topic shows I first wrote about it in April of 2007. The Portland Police Bureau has carried out numerous enforcement actions (a.k.a. “stings”) at these signs and has issued statements about their reasons for doing so. Interestingly, back in 2007, PBOT engineer Scott Batson revealed that they’d prefer to modernize the circle into a full-fledged roundabout — a change that would include turning the stop signs into yields. Unfortunately, at that time PBOT did not feel the change urgent enough to warrant the $200,000 needed to do the upgrades.

In conclusion, here are my thoughts on this situation:

  • Vigilante actions like this in the public right-of-away should be taken seriously by the police and could lead to someone getting hurt.
  • Everyone knows that stop sign compliance by all modes is much less than perfect. A big reason why is stop signs are often installed as a result of politics (to quiet a citizen complaint for instance) rather than as a result of sound traffic engineering analysis (the example above and the removal of stop signs on Caruthers near OMSI are perfect examples).
  • People riding bikes should take extra care to slow down and stop completely if neccessary when riding through Ladds Circle. There are a lot of people walking in that area, sight lines to the sidewalks are poor (several commenters more familiar with the area than I am refuted this assessment), and quiet bikes don’t give as much warning as car engines do.
  • The illegal use of mobile communication devices while driving deserves much more attention and is a much greater public safety risk.

NOTE: We love your comments and work hard to ensure they are productive, considerate, and welcoming of all perspectives. Disagreements are encouraged, but only if done with tact and respect. If you see a mean or inappropriate comment, please contact us and we'll take a look at it right away. Also, if you comment frequently, please consider holding your thoughts so that others can step forward. Thank you — Jonathan

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David
Guest
David

I don’t even know what to say. I always hope that things like this will help bring cyclists together but we always seem to just argue with each other more.

Same team guys!

OLD&SLOW
Guest
OLD&SLOW

Why are the stop signs there to begin with? What is the point of circles except to not have stop signs?
Circles are everywhere in Europe, I don’t know why this country hasn’t used them more. You simply yield the right of way and they work great.
Has anyone asked the city why they are there in the first place?

Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)
Guest

Old & Slow,

i’ve never asked why they’re there to begin with… but as you can read in the PBOT statement linked to in the article, they can’t take them out w/o doing some semi-major changes to the circle itself (to safely deflect traffic before it enters) — and w/o money to make those changes we are left in the situation we are in now.

Adam
Guest
Adam

Why would it cost so much to turn it into a proper round about? Changing signs isn’t that expensive. Right now the design in Ladds is silly. Leave it to PBOT to mess up the perfectly fine design of a round about.

Brewcaster
Guest

“People riding bikes should take extra care to slow down and stop completely if neccessary when riding through Ladds Circle. There are a lot of people walking in that area, sight lines to the sidewalks are poor, and quiet bikes don’t give as much warning as car engines do.”

Isn’t it the law that you stop completely?

-A daily bike commuter very sick of cyclists not stopping at stop signs.

Burk
Guest
Burk

I have a team that can remove the stop signs for just $100,000!

Spiffy
Guest
Spiffy

$200,000 seems like a lot of money to make it into a real round-a-bout like they should have in the first place…

neither cars nor bikes stop at those signs… when I stop on my bike I almost get hit by other bikers flying past me through the stop sign…

I wonder if the cellophane was strong enough that it would have bent the poles down if a car had come through there…

we can only hope that someday all cyclists will obey the laws more…

Dave
Guest

For what it’s worth, I rarely see bicycles or cars completely stop at the intersections around Ladd Circle, but I also *very* rarely see any kind of situation where that poses a real risk to everyone, as both bicycles and cars move through there pretty slowly, to the extent that they could stop immediately if necessary to avoid hitting someone. This is one of those spots where I think having yield signs there instead of stops would probably be better, with painted crosswalks across all the intersections that lead into/out of the circle.

I’m sure it does happen on occasion, but I’ve never seen anyone behaving recklessly here that I can think of, and I ride through quite often.

As far as the plastic trip-wire goes, it’s just plain violent, arrogant, irresponsible and dangerous. Much more so than any of the day-to-day behavior I see in Ladd Circle.

t.a. barnhart
Guest

actually, the sight lines around Ladd’s Circle are excellent. it’s easy to see everything coming in any direction. i stop there as i do at any stop sign: as if the Leg hadn’t effed up & had passed the Idaho Stop law. ie, i slow then go — unless i need to yield, then i do. i yield to pedestrians and cars religiously, but i refuse to come to a dead stop needlessly. (i never run red lights unless they have no way to trip to green & i’m stuck at 11pm in the rain….)

Adam is right: roundabouts are supposed to keep traffic moving, albeit slowly. the stop signs should be Yields. the City needs to understand the purpose of roundabouts & adjust code appropriately. for now, i’m going to keep riding as if they are yield signs, which means pedestrians and cars will get their legal right-of-way.

Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor)
Guest

Brewcaster,

yes, it’s the law to stop completely. I’m sick of people blowing stop signs too and that behavior should be cited whenever possible … but slowing to a safe speed and looking all around for other vehicles and people and then moving on — without completely stopping — should be allowed in residential streets (a.k.a. Idaho-style) and the PPB has all but said they feel the same way.

it’s a matter of discretionary law enforcement, which is something PPB does all the time. they have certain allowances within legal limits of traffic laws that they — under their individual discretion — can choose to ticket for or not.

the key is threat to public safety. police resources are extremely thin and they must prioritize time to the most dangerous activities.

Member

25-30 MPH through Ladd’s?!
That is VERY unlikely and I think the reporter in the KATU video does a huge disservice by stating that misinformation. I go through there all the time and my computer suggests most riders are going half that speed. Can you back that up with a radar gun? The video intro’s compulsory pleading remark about a bicycle highway right through the neighborhood is dutifully cloying and ridiculous. I wanted to move there BECAUSE of the quiet walkable/bikeable streets and it beats the crap out of having the proposed MT Hood freeway running up Ivon. Be grateful.

I understand that spending $11,000 for a paint and sign adjustment doesn’t compete well with other needs in a spot with very low collision rates but refinements like this (and those written about here and here are what merit Portland’s reputation as a livable city. They will not cost much in the grand scheme and they will remove a point of contention in this location without actually changing existing usage patterns and safety.
Provide the yield signs and I can have it done by tomorrow night. Free labor.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

“Oh well. I guess some Portlanders have yet to move beyond this nonsensical and unneccessary hatred for other people based solely on their mode of travel.”

Yet the comments on this blog on the altered Share the Road license plate had to be edited to remove “hatred for other people based solely on their mode of travel.”

MIndful Cyclist
Guest
MIndful Cyclist

As usual, KATU’s coverage was sensationalized (25-30 mph???) and KPTV’s was actually pretty good. At least KPTV pointed out that plenty of cars run the signs as well.

Still, I do wonder if this is a prank pulled by some drunk high school kids rather than a booby trap set by some angry driver.

wsbob
Guest
wsbob

OLD&SLOW, Adam, and Dave, and whoever else follows that supports either removal of the stop signs or converting them to yields: Do any of you actually live in Ladd’s? If you did, would you still prefer stop signs not be there. This seems to be an important consideration.

Also,, I’m not going to quickly conclude that putting up the tape was an act of vigilantism (…Vigilante actions like this …”maus). No suspect has been identified or detained. Despite the account of the witness to the voice, the idea that the tape was put up as an act of vigilantism hasn’t been determined yet. Sounds more like some wiseacre drunk decided to play a trick on bike traffic.

I haven’t seen the full vid, but a snippet of it I did see last night on KATU showed the tape wrapped around one of the poles to be opaque rather than clear. As extended between the two poles, somewhat closer to single layer, was it clear? This doesn’t seem like the fishing line/piano wire type of malicious act that comes to mind with the word ‘vigilante’.

BURR
Guest
BURR

I completely disagree with your assessment of sight lines at Ladd’s circle; they are excellent for spotting both cars and pedestrians.

Thanks BURR and others for pointing out your disagreement. You are more familiar with that area than I am. I recalled some low hanging branches but I don’t want to mischaracterize the situation. I’ve lined out that comment and left a note in the story. — Jonathan

Dave
Guest

wsbob: I don’t live in Ladd’s Addition, but thinking about the issue as objectively as I can, I think I would still support removing the stop signs around Ladd Circle. They don’t actually function as stop signs currently (for the majority of people), and yet people don’t drive or ride dangerously around there, so I say make them yields, enforce them as yields, and things will probably stay about the same as they are now except a bunch of people who are currently “safe lawbreakers” would suddenly become simply safe users of the roads, which seems pretty good to me.

Granted, if I lived there, I might see things that would cause me to think otherwise, but with the information I have from my own experience and what I’ve heard about the area…

Shetha
Guest
Shetha

Jonathan, I disagree with BURR, actually. I do live in Ladd’s and I stop at these crossings whether in my car, on foot, or on my bike. Full stop. At the stop signs, this usually means I’m getting flown by by people on bikes. Whether I’m on my bike or in my car. If you are SE-bound on Ladds and approaching the center circle, there is a large bush on the right that obstructs your view of oncoming pedestrians. Yield signs wouldn’t improve the situation, that I can see. If someone hits a (leashed) dog or child on a bike or a jogger, it’s still going to just be “I didn’t see them” and end of story. I think the behavior at these intersections all around are a symptom of our collective doubt of the usefulness of signage. In the end, folks need to slow down, consider others, and not always TAKE the right of way. Give it, too, from time to time. And the sign does say Stop. Whether you like what it says or not.

Hart
Guest

Isn’t the whole point of a round-a-bout to allow traffic to move freely without stopping?

Grimm
Guest
Grimm

Are there any statistics to the number of bikers or pedestrians injured at Ladds circle? I would guess of all locations it should be very safe, there are other places that need safety improvements or advocacy from either side. But maybe because it is so safe cyclists freely run the stop sign (which arguably should be a yield sign).

IMO this intersection seems like the easiest to assess the entire situation easily, the roundabout does its job pretty well. After biking through it very frequently the biggest hazard was pedestrians, which are what I looked out for mostly. Cars were very easy to time and move with at neighborhood speeds. The fact that this rather safe intersection is the hub of so much controversy is just misdirected anger.

Bjorn
Guest
Bjorn

I used to spend about half of my time staying in ladd’s and during that time I was actively talking to PDOT about removing the signs.

They told me informally they would need to study if the entries would have to be changed to angle traffic into the circle and then possibly change them resulting in a minimum cost of 50k to remove the stop signs so it was a no go. It was at that point that I began working on Idaho Style stop sign legislation.

Once stop signs like these go in, even if there is no data to back up a need for them outside of one person complaining to the city it becomes very difficult to get them back out. I’d like to see the city come up with more of a standard for what kind of intersection warrants a stop sign and then use that standard to remove many of the unnecessary stop signs in Portland.

In the particular case of ladd’s around 10% of vehicles stop at the stop signs, which is probably about the same % of the time that there is either a pedestrian or another vehicle already in the circle which needs to be yielded to. Well over 90% of the users of this traffic circle are already using it appropriately and it is working very well. There are basically no injury accidents in the ladd’s circle, so come on PBOT, get those signs out of there we don’t need to re engineer the circle it is working already.

MIndful Cyclist
Guest
MIndful Cyclist

wsbob: I agree. Those sign posts are close together making it an easy way to run shrink wrap across the street like that. I think it could have been a drunk prank that could have easily done some damage to a car as well.

And folks, we could go on an on all day about whether or not stop signs are feasible here or whether yield signs would be better. But, the clear fact is that there is a stop sign there. When you approach it, slow down and check for traffic at the very minimum. Whenever I have biked in Ladd’s I see a lot of cars going over the speed limit and these Stop sings can help with that.

f5
Guest
f5

Isn’t it sort of a joke that there are top signs at a roundabout? That’s like wearing pants and suspenders at the same time. I’d be real curious to see other examples of places where there are roundabouts with stop signs. I’m guessing there are little to none.

f5
Guest
f5

…actually that’s like wearing a BELT and suspenders at the same time.

Buduh-crshsh!

Thanks, I’ll be here all week. remember to tip your wait-person.

SkidMark
Guest
SkidMark

Are YIELD signs that much more expensive than stop signs? That is all that is needed to make this traffic circle function like a traffic circle should. That is how it is everywhere else in the world.

Shrink wrap, even a 2″ wide strip like that is very difficult to tear,and it is very likely that it would hurt someone if they ran into it stretched across the street like it was.

I had to laugh when that one person said that cyclists were riding through Ladd’s @ 25-30 mph. The peloton of the Tour de France might average that speed through a traffic circle, but not the typical cyclist. I guess anyone that estimates a bicycle’s speed to be 25-30 would probably think cars are routinely traveling on side streets at 40-50 mph.

Rol
Guest
Rol

There’s a stop-sign-infested roundabout at NE 39th & Glisan too.

I hope this clown is ready to pay some serious medical bills. And lawyer bills.

Tim
Guest
Tim

Until those stop signs are yields the law says stop. Not slow down, not keep going, but stop. Period. I stop at every single one and get shit from the cyclists behind me. Hell, I even got rear ended once. I drive/ride through those intersections every day and I’m shocked at the arrogance and ignorance of cyclists. It’s behavior like that that leads to “battles” between cyclists and car drivers. Maybe if a lot more people actually obeyed the law there wouldn’t be such bad blood. Go ahead and flame away, I’m on the side of safety for everyone on the road.

Elliot
Guest
Elliot

I ride though Ladd’s every day, and I always stop. I see very few other cyclists make an effort to demonstrate that they are “stopping” by slowing to 1-2 mph, keeping your balance, and looking both ways (peds come from both directions, natch). The majority of the bike traffic I observe just looks left and cruises through, though most people do slow down a bit.

My issue with people who do run the stop sign isn’t that they don’t stop… it’s that they don’t yield either! Some people run the stop sign even when there are cars or bikes already in the intersection. The reason there hasn’t been a crash from this is because someone else braked, not because it’s somehow inherently safe for bikes to run stop signs.

There have been several times when I’ve stopped on Ladd to let a ped use the crosswalk, just to have another cyclist blow by me at full speed. Replacing stop signs with yield signs doesn’t solve the problem of some people being jerks.

Corey
Guest
Corey

Almost nobody stops at those signs (bikes or cars), its a roundabout and should be yields. I happened to come to a complete stop yesterday because there was a crowd of people at the intersection and wound up being interviewed and perhaps foolishly admitted to rolling the stops on camera. We also discussed the speed at which many blew through the stop signs, which I would say is closer to 15mph average, and of course I disapproved of that.

I will never get the obsession with foot down stops at stop signs. When you get down to it the real source of frustration drivers have with cyclists is that we are slower and steal those precious seconds between them and the next red light. The safety issue is a convenient cover. But I’ve lost count of the amount of times a car will overtake me within 50 ft of a stop sign so they can beat me to it.

Has there ever been a “Put Your Foot Down” day where everybody does a foot down stop and watches traffic slow to a crawl at 4 way stops?

Not That Guy
Guest
Not That Guy

Man that guy in the white shirt between 1:38 and 1:41 who looked to his left and slowed to a reasonable speed before proceeding sure is responsible!
-not that guy

mabsf
Guest
mabsf

I think the Stop signs are actually not that bad, since nobody – cars and bikes – seem to have a clear, reliable idea who has the right of way when!
In Europe people coming from your right have the right of way and people who go straight have the right of way before people who turn… Years of experience biking here made me NOT insist of those right, but wouldn’t it be nice!

Luci
Guest
Luci

Rol- the stop signs at the NE 39th and Glisan roundabout make sense considering it is 2 lanes into a roundabout where the outer lane of the actual circle is to be used for only traffic turning out. There has to be some wiggle room for that much traffic to move between lanes and buffer the number of vehicles entering. Ladd’s, however, is very different.

As cyclists stopping completely- the loss of momentum and the energy needed to get going again on a bicycle would be the same as a auto driver stopping, putting their car in park, getting out, and then getting back in, putting their car in drive and going again. (The book “cycling revolution” has some amazing insights into allowing cyclists to bike with dignity and ease.

Bjorn
Guest
Bjorn

@Grimm

The city had a map that showed where injury accidents occurred over a 10 year period that has been posted to this site before. During that 10 year period there were zero injury accidents involving bikes, yes that is right in one of the busiest biking areas in the city there were absolutely no injury accidents anywhere within the boundaries of ladd’s addition including the center circle.

On the other hand their were quite a few on the streets that border ladds along with the rest of the city. Hence my earlier comment that if we are having enforcement to improve safety then doing the actions within ladd’s addition is akin to dedicating lifeguards to a desert while people are drowning in a nearby lake.

Brewcaster
Guest

Luci,

I love the “It takes too much energy to stop and go on a bike”, it just seems counter to the whole premise of riding a bike.

It would be more fuel efficient for a car to not have to stop as well.

I for one welcome the extra effort I have to make on a bike to stop and start again, if it will increase safety while showing drivers that a cyclist can be trusted to follow the laws of the road.

Too bad if I get a better workout from it.

Let me know if anyone has gotten out of a ticket for blowing a stop sign by explaining to the judge that it just wasn’t efficient enough to stop .

jeff
Guest
jeff

Folks, the stop signs are there. They’re not changing anytime soon. It’s the law. Coming up with excuses such as “it stops momentum or makes me use more energy” is empty, lazy, and part of the problem in the greater public perception of alternative road users in this town.

The neighbors are obviously tired of what they are seeing and experiencing.

t.a. barnhart
Guest

the UK (i lived there for 5 years) has roundabouts everywhere — even on roads the equivalent of the Sunset Highway. no stop signs: it’s all yield. and guess what? they don’t slaughter one another. they yield, they enter, they exit & traffic flows smoothly. of course they also don’t slaughter each other with handguns either (those are special occasions). not sure what the full moral of that is other than we could do with learning some better ways in this country.

Lenny Anderson
Guest
Lenny Anderson

The key difference between bikes and motor vehicles is that the latter can, and often do, cause serious harm. Bikes are for the most part harmless to others. Hence the licensing of both motor vehicles and drivers. Coasting thru a stop sign on the bike is a victimless crime not worthy of police resources…or the community’s time.

spare_wheel
Guest
spare_wheel

“Let me know if anyone has gotten out of a ticket for blowing a stop sign by explaining to the judge that it just wasn’t efficient enough to stop.”

So you want me to slavishly follow a law designed for motor-vehicles that has no impact on bike traffic safety (hello idaho) and is not enforced?

Sorry, not going to happen.

Brewcaster
Guest

Lenny,
Not sure how you pull me back into this ridiculous argument.

A cyclist not obeying traffic laws causes uncertainty to a driver on what they will do.

What if it causes a car to slam on the brakes, veer off the road (onto sidewalk) or other traffic?

To think a cyclist on the same road has no effect on the drivers on that road is beyond ridiculous.

Do motorcyclists or someone on a tiny motorized scooter have the same “Harmless” effect on others it shares the road with.

Seriously, I am done trying to make the point. The laws are laws. The laws are for safety and some sort of understanding about what a car, cyclist, pedestrian, motorcyclist, etc will do at a given point in the road, including intersections.

Brewcaster
Guest

spare_wheel

“So you want me to slavishly follow a law designed for motor-vehicles that has no impact on bike traffic safety (hello idaho) and is not enforced?”

Such a rebel. Keep fighting the good fight.

If someone asked me that question, my response would be, “Yes, its the law, and I am sharing the road.”

spare_wheel
Guest
spare_wheel

“Folks, the stop signs are there. They’re not changing anytime soon.”

The fact that a vocal minority focuses on cyclists at the exclusion of the majority of drivers who california stop at the same intersections is interesting. I suspect that the fact that a lot of those miscreant cyclists look “different” has more to do with it than real concern over safety.

spare_wheel
Guest
spare_wheel

Yes, its the law, and I am sharing the road.

I bet you share the road just fine without following the absolute letter of the law (speeding, the california stop). I am a courteous cyclist and *always* come to a complete stop at traffic lights and major intersections. But after years of using a bike as my predominant form of transport I know that I am going to occasionally safely roll through residential stop signs.

Corey
Guest
Corey

When someone says “it stops momentum” or “takes more effort” its easy to assume they are being selfish rather than pointing out the obvious effect on traffic.

My best guess is that if we all started coming to complete stops complaints would get even worse and cyclists would be in greater danger by autos that view us as too slow to be on the street. I do the slow yield and yet I still have autos and cyclists upset that I don’t just blow the sign completely. I’m not going to follow the law to a T if it puts me at greater risk of confrontation.

And Portland Police have themselves indicated that the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law when they trained their officers to only go after blatant abuses rather than those who slow and yield.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Quiz: Who’s the criminal here:

a) Bikes who violate the stop sign law but seem to have no record of injury over many years. These same bikes have prevented many car accidents by putting ewer cars on the roads. The intent ( and result ) is to help everyone and prevent accidents.

b) Someone with the intent to injure with a trip wire? The intent is to harm.

hint to the police: Just ask your call data center to pull up records. This person most likely called to report this problem, then got angry when no cops showed up. I’d bet money they live within a block. Profile: Overweight, over 40 years, single, jealous, rich white male in Ladds with no social life. He’s most likely reading this now.

neighbor
Guest

“The battle between drivers and bikers reaches a boiling point…”

…uuuuuhhh… Did I miss the part where the guy in the bushes was driving a car?

I think the battle between bikers and people who yell things from bushes has been RAGING for a long time. And let’s not get started with our WAR on passive aggressive yet dangerous vigilante action!

Biker vs. Driver battle? Eh. Mild simmer. More like kids taunting on the playground.

Love that KPTV pit interview with physically fit cyclist against overweight, out of shape driver- finally some truth in their journalism.

wsbob
Guest
wsbob

“… i slow then go — unless i need to yield, then i do. …” T.A. Barnhart #9

And that’s just fine, if everybody that chose not to come to a full stop actually did that; but it seems they so frequently don’t, which becomes a problem.

“25-30 MPH through Ladd’s?! …” J.R. #11

J.R. …I think that was misjudgment of speeds actually being reached by cyclists through the stop signs. Visually calculating with accuracy, speeds traveled by vehicles isn’t so easy to do. From reporters though, it would helpful if they didn’t just grab a number out of the blue.

Easily 10-15mph, and perhaps occasionally 20mph though. The short snippet I saw last night showed bikes riding through at 10-15 mph.

Dave #15 …thanks for thinking about the question and answering thoughtfully.

Shetha #17 …it’s good to hear viewpoint’s on this situation from yourself and a few others having commented so far that actually live in Ladd’s Addition. It seems to me that neighborhood residents should have some say about their neighborhood’s quality of life as it’s effected by decisions the city makes in regards to traffic infrastructure through it.

As to problems you’re having in “… getting flown by by people on bikes (some other commenters have also expressed frustration with this problem, described differently). …” when stopping at the signs, I’m wondering if, as you approach the signs when other traffic, and both motor vehicle and bike are behind you, you’re using the ‘stop’ hand signal(left arm extended down and away from body at 45 degree angle)well in advance of the sign to indicate to those road users, your intention to stop. No guarantee it’ll be respected, but I find it works, and have heard from others also that it works.

rigormrtis
Guest
rigormrtis

Oh Lenny……

The whole point of traffic controls is to have predictability. Having an arbitrary adherence will only lead to more accidents.

I am sure that a pedestrian who has been hit by a bicycle would have a different viewpoint on your “victimless” scenario.

I’ve almost been hit several times crossing Miss at Shaver when some hipster decides that the stop sign does not apply to him.

suburban
Guest

Portland doesn’t have traffic circles, yet.

beelnite
Guest
beelnite

The people in Ladd’s Circle who call the police on cyclists are hypocrites as evidenced by the way they drive through their own neighborhood.

Today a motorist in a mini-SUV sped past me near the east gardens and then proceeded to do his best Le Mans impression by hard breaking and tearing around the various turns to get around the garden… and prove he belonged in front. He put my life in his hands by gunning his engine and squeezing by at 30 mph just so he could…

Be forced to stop at a stop sign for the very first time since he pulled his little impatient stunt. To much traffic on the circle so he couldn’t blow through this stoplight.

And I was right on him. Looking in his rearview shaking my head. Window open. “What do you think you’re doing?” I ask.

A voice from bench in front of the coffee shop, “He’s stopping at the stop sign. You could learn something!”

From my stopped position behind the a-hole driver I look over at crotchety old man with cane who’s ready for action.

I hop off and walk us over there.

“No sir. I’ll tell you what he’s doing…”

“You can just shut the hell up and stop next time…”

“I did stop sir – this guy was tearing through the neighborhood and all you can do is complain about me? I’m doing what 12? 13? mph? Seriously?”

“You people need to learn…”

He wouldn’t listen.

“Just so you know Mister – I ALWAYS stop at the stop sign.”

“Ohhh you do not you sonofa…”

I left.

old&slow
Guest
old&slow

wsbob, you seem to know a lot about the situation since I don’t think you live in the area or even ride a bike.
The bike traffic in Ladd’s is not dangerous, not that fast and not an inconvenience for the people who live there except some there would prefer that nobody come through their neighborhood.
I don’t have the luxury of whining about the people who drive or bike down the street I live on.
It seems the neighborhood there gets extra attention from the city for a non issue.
“Unsafe” conditions because bikes ride 15 mph around a traffic circle that doesn’t need stop signs to begin with!
How about you crusade about getting Beaverton to make riding their safe and leave the eastside topics to the people who actually live and drive and ride there.

Elliott
Guest
Elliott

I grew up in Australia and we had tons of roundabouts there, all of them with yield signs. Personally, whether riding a bike or driving I never stop at a stop sign at a roundabout, it’s not my fault they put the wrong signs up. I drive and ride all over town and there are hundreds of places a roundabout could go in to do away with four way stop signs. I always ask myself, what’s the carbon footprint of a four way stop sign?