“… guy jumps out passenger door and yells “are you getting lippy with me ******?” and charges at me with… a hammer.”
Late this afternoon, several readers brought a Reddit post titled, Got attacked by 2 dudes in a white van on Thurs in NE, to my attention. It’s a harrowing tale that warrants everyone’s attention.
Here’s the post:
“I was riding my bike to a 4pm class on Sumner in NE. I came to the stop sign at NE 17th and a white van slowly came up to the intersection and stopped. They had the right of way, so I pointed at the stop sign. They both looked at me kinda blankly so I pointed with both hands at the sign and said “look, I have a stop sign, you can go!”
Then van pulls into middle of intersection, guy jumps out passenger door and yells “are you getting lippy with me faggot?” and charges at me with, I shit you not, a hammer. I start my escape but he caught me on the back with a hammer swing. Luckily I was carrying a huge bag full of hard stuff and the hammer blow didn’t do any noticeable damage. I sped off down Sumner, planning on turning onto 14th Pl because it deadends there for automobiles. The guys in the van followed me and ran the stop sign at 15th and Sumner, but I was able to get onto Killingsworth well before they got close to me again.
White van, no windows, WA plates, 2 very normal looking white guys with white t-shirts.
It’s the craziest shit that’s ever happened to me while on my bike or since I’ve lived in Portland. I spent the entire class afterwards imagining ways I could’ve Jackie Chan’d them with my u-lock or my bike polo mallets. I’m glad I didn’t though. They probably had other tools in the van.”
I followed up with the man who posted the account. He’s a 25-year old former preschool teacher named Peter Abram who is currently a student at Portland Community College and was on his way to the Cascade Campus when the incident took place.
The way Abram remembers it, he was simply trying to tell the guys in the van that it was there turn to go and they had the right of way. You know the situation, the person in the car waits and yields to the person on the bike, even though it’s their turn to go. It’s an often frustrating interplay.
“I stopped at the stop sign,” Abram recalled, “pointed at it, had one foot off the pedal… Both of them just looked at me blankly. Then I put both feed down, took both hands off the bar, pointed to the stop sign and motioned for them to cross the intersection.”
It was Abram’s words of “There’s a stop sign, you guys can go!” that apparently set them off and led to the near-altercation.
Fortunately he was able to pedal away.
“When he jumped out of the van, that’s when I started rolling away. I got half a pedal stroke in and turned away just as he swung at me… I pedaled as fast as I could. He hopped back in the car and floored it, you could hear the acceleration, it was really loud.”
Looking back, Abram says he’s content with how it all turned out. He doesn’t feel like the guys in the van had it out for people on bikes specifically, rather that, “It just seemed like the guy was angry and wanted to take it out on someone.”
Abram did report the incident to the police. He called the non-emergency line as soon as he got to his destination. Unfortunately, he wasn’t too impressed with the response he got. He told me he fully understands why the police wouldn’t spend a lot of time on his case, but he was disappointed at their lack of concern. “They said, ‘You can come down [to the station] and file a report if you want to… But they were discouraging sounding. I told them what happened, I’m assuming they’ll take the info down.”
When asked by a Reddit commenter if he filed a police report, here’s how Abram replied:
“I called and they said it wasn’t worth filing a report over because I wasn’t injured and I don’t know any identifying features about the guys. I was surprised. I figured getting hit by a hammer by a crazy dude is grounds for a police report.”
It is. Oregon has laws against harassment (no injury necessary) and assault with a deadly weapon (hammers in this case).
At this point, Abram says he’d just like to move on. He’s back in school after several years he needs to “hit the books.” Hopefully he can concentrate and not let his mind wander off into more Jackie Chan fight scenes.
This is the fourth road rage incident I’ve heard about in detail this week alone. Hard to say if there’s an uptick in general, but it’s more than I usually hear about. Anyone have a theory? And has anyone else seen this van?
Thanks for reading.
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On Wednesday at 7:10 am a guy in a blue Ford truck OR plates 343 CQV yelled “asshole” at me when I did not come to a complete stop at the intersection of NE 40th and Tillamook. I responded in kind and he roared after me. Between 39 and 38 he drove thru the bike lane and cut me off almost hitting me. I jumped off my bike ready to go and he drove off. I called the police at the time of the incident and the operator w Lukas very sarcastic. The dude then came back and I told her “here he is again” and I confirmed his plates. The dude did not stop this time was probably worried that I was on phone w the cops. No need to worry tho they did not do anything and later when I called were no help. Not surprising to hear this story.
Sounds like a prime candidate for “The Watch List” thread in the forums…
http://bikeportland.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1730
So it all could have been avoided if you simply stopped…..is what I am hearing.
Back in Nov I was run off NE 20th before the light at Fremont heading north by a white guy in a white van passing me in the evening. He tried to squeeze me into some parked cars but I was able to slow down fast enough to avoid having to hit them. I think he was pissed he had to slow down before he could pass me because there was an oncoming car in the southbound lane. Due to it being fall, the far right was full of leaves so I was more or less in the lane but without oncoming traffic plenty of room to pass me still and I was keeping a pretty good pace. And we were coming to a red light. Anyway.
Probably not the same dude but I was too shaken up to get a look at the plate or details of the van but I don’t recall any logos. This was a work/delivery style van not a minvan kind of van if that makes sense. I did try to talk to the guy since traffic was stopped at the red light after he did that and he just flipped me off though his window. No attempts at further harassment though.
Aaaand now just last night my friend and I were biking just off the Broadway bridge heading to pick up Williams when she was struck with a glass beer bottle. (hit her back she is fine) maroon mazda or some such sports car, it was 2 am so prob drunk. WTF
That is exactly why I always rode on the sidewalk when I lived in Raleigh, NC, if I rode at all. A bike ANYWHERE in the road caused such anger that you’d get pelted with whatever was handy in the car. Bottles were common. Portland has it’s share of road rage issues that legitimately need to be confronted, but it is leagues better than Raleigh.
I would be happy to pedal around the area and help others I.D. the van… I bet it could be found easily.
Dang auto correct. “the operator w Lukas very sarcastic” should read “was very sarcastic”.
I’ve experienced road rage in the near vicinity of this area (it occurred at NE 17th and Holman about 2 months back), where the driver was upset because I was ‘in the middle of the road’ – which is exactly where the sharrows are located (to avoid the door zone).
The driver stopped the car (not at any intersection), allowed me to approach when he rolled the window down, yelled at me without even giving me a chance to converse with him – and part of his yelling claimed that I was a ‘faggot’ among other things – coincidence? Car was blue, but that isn’t to say it wasn’t the same person….. who knows…… His intensity was so strong that I was curious if he was going to go after me with his car.
Ugh!
I’ve never understood the perceived connection between riding a bicycle and being a homosexual. These motorists have some real mental issues.
And its this mentality, or LACK of mentality, that has me thinking that some homo sapiens have devolved back in to animals that are incapable of controlling their base instincts.
When a person is as incapable of controlling their impulses as a dog in heat then they should be treated as such.
I don’t know. I have a theory that, at least for irrational and rage-filled men that do stuff like this, and like to use the word ‘faggot’ liberally while they’re at it, there’s a deep-seated sense of jealousy of someone who is tough enough to get out on a bike and drive around with cars flying everywhere, in bad weather, with dangerous situations everywhere, whatever.
There are a lot of people who think they’re the ultimate bad-asses by riding in a huge SUV or truck that gives them every level of protection and safety imaginable… and they, at the end of the day, do it for just that reason. They’re afraid of risk, and spending thousands of and thousands of dollars to cushion themselves in some sort of rolling tank just confirms that. I mean, seriously… put yourself in the psyche of someone who screams ‘faggot’ at anybody who irks them. How much time does that person spend trying to convince themselves they’re the pinnacle of toughness and manhood?
But in reality, knowing, when it comes down to it, that they’re kind of f-cking cowards with their massive rigs and almost no sense of danger. Bikes, and the people on them, kind of rub their face in that fact.
“I’ve never understood the perceived connection between riding a bicycle and being a homosexual.”
The more I think about this, the more I get it.
Person in car = straight person = majority
person on bike = homo = minority
Pathetic, but I think no less revealing for how certain people, classes of people see the world, what they are afraid of (losing), etc. Some people are threatened by others who don’t (appear to) subscribe to the same values, way of being. With the automobile so tightly bound up with our (many people’s) sense of their own worth, the flagrant (appearing) disregard for these symbols can be an affront.
For a fun read on the irrational attachments some folks have to their auto take a look at this:
http://westernmountain.org/Resources/DECLINE%20OF%20THE%20AUTOMOBILE.pdf
I think you mean being homosexual rather than “a” homosexual, i.e., perhaps you are heterosexual rather than a heterosexual, straight rather than a straight, gay rather than a gay.
hugh, that’s interesting. because I’ve never seen the link between guys driving large trucks and “overcompensating” for something.
anytime this happens, where i have a stop sign and the car doesn’t, instead of pointing or telling the driver to go, i just sit there on my bike, stopped, looking straight forward as though i’m off in my own world. i’ve even had drivers honking and aggressively motioning with their arms for me to go even though i don’t have the right of way.
I do the same. I dont look at them or anything else for that matter. I just look forward like im dazed in my own little world.
Yup, that seems to work pretty well for me, too. Though I go less for the dazed look, and just make it really obvious that i’m stopping and waiting by slowly pulling up to the stop sign, putting both feet on the ground, and getting off my seat. i don’t make eye contact, because a lot of oregon drivers love to do the little “it’s okay, go ahead!” wave even though it actually inconveniences me. out of all the forms of ignorance and privilege, I think it’s a pretty minor one, but it does parallel privileged people’s tendency to be charitable in the most illogical, selfishly determined ways.
Oh, and if any male bike riders out there are reading this and thinking “god, it drives me nuts when cars try to wave me through when they have the right of way,” I really hope they don’t actually practice chivalry. It’s the exact same thing.
I take out a sandwich. And start eating it.
Happens all the time on Alberta. Most recently an African American man with WA plates followed me onto Webster asking why he had to wait for me. Happens pretty frequently when I ride in Lents as well. The common denominator generally tends to be when I’m riding in the lane on busier streets without bike facilities like Alberta and Holgate. My supposition based purely on my experience is that it send to be a class thing. Using the same riding style growing up in a more well off part if Beaverton never produced any road rage incidents. Of course this was before thelocal news ramped up its anti-bike rhetoric as well.
They probably feel you are flaunting how “elite” you are by being on two wheels. Go figure. Hell it has nothing to with being elite…being on a bike is about being efficient and convenient. And it also happens to be a lot of fun.
“… content with how it all turned out.” WTF? Assault with a deadly weapon, no one is charged let alone headed to PRISON where they belong, and he’s content with the outcome?
I’m not content with it. These guys are still on the loose.
Sure, it’s possible afterwards these guys had a “holy crap, I didn’t know I was capable of that” moment, got religion and won’t do it again. We’ve all had those moments (though to a lesser extreme, hopefully). On the other hand, it’s just as possible they’re ready to attack someone else again in the future.
I know this is BIKE Portland, but spare a thought for all the people on foot that have been struck/assaulted and killed/injured by people in cars over the past few weeks, as well.
Really Champs? that’s a stretch. This is technically a story about a cyclist assaulted by someone on foot after all, and don’t get lippy with me, we washingtonians are putting the hammer down!
i don’t at all want to defend what the hammer wielding crazy guy did, but those of us who ride bikes should also keep our cool too. imagining someone using both their hands to point at a stop sign does seem a little condescending. when someone stops for you to go when it’s not your turn, that really is the driver attempting to be courteous (even if we as cyclists find it annoying and dangerous) – so respond with the same courtesy the driver is intending, a smile and a simple wave for them to go on through first can suffice. like i said, not defending what happened at all (obviously), but using both hands to point at the stop sign does seem like it’d invite crazy should the driver already be crazy. even if you are 110% in the right, be respectful about it. the potential is there for anyone in a car to be crazy. and 2 tons of steel and glass is not something you want to gamble with.
Naomi, All he did was point at the sign. He didn’t flip him off.I read you loud and clear about not defending his actions, but in what world does pointing hands at the stop sign invite crazy? No rationale human should expect point his\her hands at an inanimate object should lead to a response of faggot, let alone a crazy individual charging you with a hammer.
come on, be real. do it, right now where you are sitting, do it. take both arms and point out towards the corner of your room. it looks condescending. why use 2 arms when all you need to do is point with one? it comes off as overly condescending.
the practice of waving pedestrians and cyclists through intersections when they do not have right of way is dangerous. i have no problem indicating that a motorist should take their right of way verbally or physically. isn’t that what being traffic is about?
I just did the pointing thing and can’t see how it’s condescending, it’s an exaggerated gesture that he used when pointing with one hand didn’t work. The way I read the story, it sounded like the agro’s were out hunting and they were baiting him at the intersection. I bet that if he would have tried crossing in front of the van that they would have gunned it. Maybe not hitting him, but certainly with the intent of making the cyclist think they were going to.
Or perhaps the fellows in the van were lovers and they figured that if they did some gay bashing that it would give them back some of their machismo that they thought they had lost. “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” That sort of thing. Sad either way, really.
It is condescending. I agree
I agree with what you’re saying. But I’ve learned that the best way to handle this situation is to do nothing at all. I just stand there, and wait for the other guy to go when they have the right away. Pretending to fiddle with a part on my bike – like I have a mechanical issue – sometimes speeds the process along.
Yeah, it’s a PITA to have to wait out someone else’s lack of understanding of how the rules of the road work. But I’ve had enough negative experiences when I’ve pointed out that others have the ROW, so now I just don’t do anything. Eventually they move on. It’s just not worth the drama, certainly not a hammer attack!
Glad the guy in the story wasn’t hurt!!!
I find that taking my hands OFF THE HANDLEBARS does the trick for this situation though occasionally I have to fold my arms across my chest or get a drink of water.
Once or twice, in a situation where:
() the auto driver stopped for NO reason
() they clearly had the ROW
() and I had a stop sign
() AND they refused to move
I then proceeded to dismount, very slowly, and physically touch the stop sign.
Then I make eye contact with the moron driver.
Then I pat the stop sign like “good dog”.
Then I make eye contact with the moron driver.
Then I pat the stop sign like “good dog”.
LOL!
The last part is a bit condescending.
At a certain point I feel it is necessary to educate these “freak stoppers” that by abdicating their Right Of Way they have made their life and every other road user’s life LESS safe and LESS expeditious.
My thought process has always been that if necessary, once off the bike, I can use the entire bike as a club.
if by keeping your cool you mean lay down and take it. no thank you.
i’ve had hilarious interactions with seemingly polite motorists when i refuse to take their right of way. sometimes we will wait at an intersection staring at each other for minutes before invariably the motorist honks or curses. imo, tolerating this kind of passive aggressive BS is foolish.
If someone wants to give me their right of way I’ll gladly take it and say thank you.
If for some reason you do not wish to take the right of way then politely wave them through. Pointing at a stop sign (which they may not recognize from the back side) is condescending with one hand, asinine with two.
Of course coming at someone with a hammer is criminally insane and unforgivable.
condescending: showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others
does pointing at a sign really fit this definition? i would love for someone to explain why.
If the guy had flipped him off with both hands and yelled something about his mom’s virtue, going after him would still be off-the-charts inappropriate in terms of a response.
Your comment smacks of those “Well, rapists are really bad, but still, she shouldn’t have been wearing that skirt.” comments.
Justify the rage that this person used against this rider for using two hands? You knew that it was the two hand gesture that produced this rage. Wow I am impressed. Condescending is what you are.
GlowBoy, I think he was able to be content, because he was comparing the outcome with imagined alternate outcomes such as getting a hammer in his head, the driver appearing to him as a serial hammerer, etc. Furthermore, he did say he was content with how “it”, the incident involving himself, turned out, but didn’t mention how he felt about any future incident that could possibly take place.
They’re probably just mad you didn’t want to buy any speakers.
I’ve heard many stories of road rage against cyclists, but attacking and actually striking a cyclist with a hammer is extremely serious. I don’t know the whole situation, but had it been me I would have called 911 and demanded assistance. That’s frightening. On a related note, does anyone have accounts of being in a road rage incident and sucessfully getting the hostile party arrested and convicted? I’m curious– if the stories of police responses seem lukewarm what the response of the district attorney’s office is like.
There have definitely been cases of people getting arrested. The dude who ran down two people on Clinton five or six years ago, and ended up being completely insane (with a lobotomy history to boot), comes to mind.
Think he got a stint in the psyche ward and a lifetime revoking of his DL.
I was egged, and I managed to get the guys who did it. One plead guilty to Harassment and had to pay some fines, do some community service, and now has it on his record. The other one’s lawyers and I came to an agreement. I got two kids bikes to donate to the CCC, and a nice apology letter.
http://bikeportland.org/2010/12/09/with-help-of-police-activist-turns-egging-incident-into-a-positive-44279
Mine goes to WashCo court at the end of this month, after the perp postponing once -so far.
Impeccable witnesses, a confession, etc… I will be very curious to see how this plays out.
A year or two ago a driver got out of his car and shot at a cyclist. He was arrested and lost his job as a firefighter.
I had an interesting experience on Monday morning, 8:50ish while riding through Washington Park to PSU. It was your typical agro driver behavior–honking of horn, revving engine behind me, trying to pass unsafely (the narrow one way road section with parked cars on the right just before SW Park Pl)–all definitely threatening. I stopped at my turn (the little hairpin section, Madison) and looked back to see who they were–and was shocked to see it was one of my neighbors! (When she drove past me she refused to make eye contact.) Now I’m grappling–how do I deal with this?? This goes beyond being a stranger–this is someone who lives two doors down from me!
I’d suggest rigging a camera to the bike… If it happens again, invite the neighborhood to a Movie night.
I would asked them the next time you see them in a relaxed atmosphere… not confrontational, just to find out what made him/her tick…
That is a perfect demonstration of why road rage behavior is so weird and dangerous. These people feel comfortable threatening harm with a car when they feel that both you and them are anonymous, but the second there is a connection they become timid and scared.
I would knock on their door and try to have a calm, rational discussion about it.
Are they usually nice people?
I would start it with something like “I’m sorry if I made you feel held up or slowed down, but this is how I felt when you revved your car at me. Etc etc yadda yadda…” and maybe that will open a dialog and actually help a driver to think next time they are feeling like acting in such a way.
Are they usually nice people? Sadly, they’ve not been very pleasant to us. (She also allows her off leash dogs to harass mine but that’s a whole other story…) I really do want to, NEED to talk with her, educate her, hopefully convince her of the error of her ways (dream on, I know) but I need to find a way to approach her at the right time and place. Not going to be easy. Not at all. I’m hoping to convince her to do this online series of flash cards: http://www.stc-law.com/bikelawcards.html?bkpdx
Well, that’s too bad. Good luck with however you decide to approach her.
I had a coworker cut me off on the way into work on morning. I yelled at him at the time, but then we met up after in the office and discussed it calmly. In the end, I learned that yelling isn’t always helpful, and he learned a lesson on how to safely pass a bike.
Suck it up and approach her. She needs to learn.
Yes! Please be an educational ambassador when you have the chance.
I’ve explained to co-workers many times the law around them being required to yield to all traffic in a marked bike lane, especially when making right turns. They’re almost always incredulous about it at first, but I eventually get them to accept it (if begrudgingly).
Go talk to her, and if she responds badly, contact the police since you can positively identify her. Odd though, I don’t think I’ve ever had aggressive behaviour from a female driver before.
Ha. Come out and ride in Beaverton some time…
Is this a pun? =)
Ugh. I ride through this neighborhood on my daily commute. Too many of my own stories to share here. Can someone please recommend a place where there are no psychos? I’d like to move there…
SE Portland. All my neighbors commute by bike. I’m not kidding, either. It’s one big bikey love fest. Between Burnside and Belmont, west of 39th.
France.
On our month-long honeymoon trip across the south of France, we never, not even once, had any interaction with motorists that was anything but positive. Motorists patiently followed as we ground up a hill at 3 mph, waited for a safe place to pass, a toot on the horn, waiving and thumbs up as they passed! More than once!
On our first ride at home after our trip, we encoungerd a red pick-up truck that drove behind us on the shoulder revving his engine even with no on-coming traffic and lots of room. What a contrast!
21 years of experience here riding with traffic in Oregon. My advice: watch the cars, not the people. Don’t even acknowledge that the tin can has a human inside – it doesn’t matter. Trying to second guess what the other person thinks and attempting to predict their actions by making eye contact is a no-no in my book. If you both come to a stop sign, vehicle on the right has ROW. if they dont move, they forfeit their ROW. Check to make sure it’s safe, and go. I ignore communication attempts by drivers as it is irrelevant and I want to avoid road rage incidents. This goes both ways, too – I don’t want to rage at stupid people.
A few years ago in Pdx I always thought it sounded dumb, but the more I ride in Portland these days, the more I understand why so many people ride with some kind of mounted camera on their bars
There is SO much more traffic on the roads than when I moved here eight years ago, and so much more road rage as a result. It doesn’t help that much of it is quite content to treat our bike boulevards as little more than two lanes of extra auto capacity to speed down.
Does anybody out there ride with a camera? Is it helmet-mounted, or handle-bar mounted, or….? I would love to find out more.
Caught on Camera:
http://bikeportland.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3787&highlight=video
I have one of these discretely mounted on my helmet:
http://www.amazon.com/Veho-VCC003MUVI-Micro-DV-Camcorder/dp/B0029631VI
It’s not exactly HD video, but it does a surprisingly good job given its size and price. I know we’re not talking about cameras as fashion accessories, but I think helmet mounted Go-Pro cameras look ridiculous. And should something happen to the Muvi, you’re not out a whole lot of cash (mine has held up for two years without issue).
And then there are the other cyclists who try to tell you how to ride, they are very quick to inform you what you’re doing wrong on your bike. They suck too.
Avoiding conflict is good but it WOULD be nice if folks could get along, share the road and exchange pleasantries to build the sense of community along the way. That is how I try to move through my journey by bike. Usually it works. I don’t act like I am better than others. In fact I pick up trash as I ride thru the ‘hood. Sometimes I even get a random “thank you” from a pedestrian or car driver. Choosing my route to avoid worst traffic conflict, also seems to help.
I am thinking of getting two cameras. One for my helmet and the other for the back fork or back fender, facing backwards.
My hope is that the camera on my helmet would serve two purposes.
First of all, I can attempt to point it at cars that cut me off, go through lights/stop signs, etc.
The second is to simply look at a road raging driver and simply point to the camera on the helmet to let them know that they are on Candid Camera.
The camera on the back fork/fender? That would (hopefully) catch the license plate and front of a car that is about to run me over from behind.
Perhaps this can turn into a discussion of suggestions about suitable cameras that can record, say, a couple of hours and be waterproof and fairy rugged. If it can withstand being run over by the weight of a car, the better.
This should be considered a hate crime.
Haven’t used one of these bike cameras, but have seen them in several bike/sports shops around town: http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-hero2-outdoor-edition/?gclid=CIjWxLXx0K0CFaEZQgoda1P66w
Hey, we look to Portland as a cycling role model. How much of this crap is happening because cyclists are attracting random psychotics and/or drunks and how much because some cyclists are still riding like three year olds on steroids?
Dang this shiz sounds crazier than anything I’ve seen in Brooklyn. After 1 week living in PDX I am irritated by over polite drivers. Luckily haven’t met any violent criminals though…
You have got to be kidding. If you feel victimized because you ride a bike, please, start walking.
Not because of riding a bike, and I don’t feel victimized. However, I doubt the attacker was calling the bicyclist a bundle of sticks before taking a swing.
It was a hate crime because the perpetrator expressed his opinion of the victim’s perceived sexual preference, not be cause the victim was riding a bicycle. Violence on that basis is a hate crime under both federal and OR statutes.
When someone attacks me with a hammer, fist, or auto and uses the term “faggot”, I believe we have entered into a situation where “hate crime” could be applied. Bike or no bike. I have faced this many times in my life. I am sure many others have as well. I’m a breeder for sure, but have no tolerance for this. My mildly homophobic father said once of Fred Phelps, ” If he had protested my sons funeral, it would be his last”. My adopted brother died of ” the gay disease” in the spring of 1982. The driver of the van needs to be sought by the police, now. plain and simple. Homophobia aside, he is guilt of a “big F-up”.
As crude, mean and criminal as the attacker’s behaviour was, I can’t see that he had any indication of the biker’s sexual orientation. It was just a banal slur from a bully with a limited vocabulary. Detestable as it was, this was plain old assault. Commenters crying “hate crime” here need to compare their motives with those of similar comments on the recent MAX beatings, as well as read the police comments about the charges and why it’s not a “hate crime”:
http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/karley%20buckland/index.html
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Two-appear-in-court-in-connection-to-MAX-beating-137328163.html
Sooooo, I assume by your statement, that the man on the bicycle, no matter how insipid his gesture at the Stop sign was perceived by Mr. White Van, should stand steady as the hammer wielding person comes over so they may discuss the nuance of said cyclist’s sexual orientation or preference? And after close examinations of the facts he may proceed to place the hammer in his skull while shouting “faggot!”? This is just plain ol’ everyday assault? I see now.
Huh? I’ve no idea how my post could be interpreted that way. It was an assault, just not a “hate crime” type of assault, and evasion or defense by the victim seems completely reasonable, as would prosecution of the offender if he were caught.
People posting comments can use their preconceived notions to designate crimes as hate crimes, but the law, as decided by popular preference and still evolving today, is only meant to classify anything based on evidence available. What Alan 1.0 seemed to be getting at is that the law, which “hate crime” wouldn’t exist without, doesn’t work on assumptions, so law enforcers in this case can’t associate the use of “faggot” with hate for homosexuals. There’s just no evidence for it; doing so would be illogical.
I understand the law is nuanced for the sake of proof.
whoa be safe out there, seems ppl like this still drive around with hate in the vains. 🙁
I want to comment , but shall refrain about being armed and avoiding conflicts at all costs when riding, due to no police response in the past.
Last summer I was riding south on NE 10th and stopped before I was to turn West onto Holman. There was a beat up little hatchback car with two dudes driving south on 10th also looking turn West onto Holman. I waved them ahead because I stopped to drink some water. The guys laughed and waved me ahead. I started to go and then they started to go. I stopped and they waved me ahead again. They were clearly taunting me and I started to get angry and yelled for them to go. They just stopped there and laughed and yelled things at me. I contemplated turning around and going the other way, but I thought they would follow me so I just pretended to look for my phone and they got angry and drove right towards me and up onto the sidewalk yelling all kinds of profanities. Then they sped off. They came within 6 inches of hitting my bike and I thought they were going to get out and hit me. Looking back I should have just ignored them and rode the other way until they left, but they were clearly bored and looking for a fight and I guess I was an easy target.
I had experiences like these almost weekly for a year on my N to NE commute out to the airport. Another time I yelled at a guy because he opened his door without looking and I narrowly avoided hitting it. I didn’t use profanity or flip the bird. I just yelled that he should look before opening his door. He got back in his car, and raced to catch up with me and followed me for 2 blocks yelling out his window at me.
I changed my route to NE Going and didn’t have a problem in 6 months.
maybe the talk radio geniuses are spewing their venom again.
I vote for something classy; spraypaint “A**HOLE” on their garage door some night…
Yesterday at SE Lambert & Milwaukie… I was on bike stopped at the stop sign waiting for a break in traffic. A car stopped and motioned me to go. He did not have a stop sign. There was a steady stream of cars coming the other direction that were not stopping. I motion the stopped driver to continue. He stayed stopped and motioned back for me to go. A car pulled up behind him and started honking and flashing lights. That got him moving. I smiled and waved as he drove past and he did the same back to me. A natural break in the traffic came soon enough and I was on my way.