was involved in the incident.
(Photo: City of Wyoming)
The Portland Bureau of Transportation says a City employee who soaked a group of people riding up N. Williams Avenue on July 7th was completely unaware of the incident.
PBOT spokesperson Chery Kuck says the driver of a street flusher truck (the trucks that run in front of street sweepers) was spraying the left side of the Williams Avenue and had no idea that his right side sprayer — the one that happened to soak a group of people riding in the bike lane — was also turned on.
“He was unaware that his front sprayer had been left on by a prior operator,” said Kuck, in a phone call to BikePortland.
“Management is satisfied that he did not intentionally spray anyone or create a safety hazard for the cyclist.”
— Cheryl Kuck, PBOT
The incident happened just before 11:00 pm, which Kuck says added to the truck driver’s difficulty in being aware of his sprays. “It’s difficult to see the spray at night, and there’s no gauge or indicator in their cab that would let them know that this nozzle is operating,” she said.
People who were soaked by the spray were understandably upset by the incident, especially because they thought the truck operator had done it on purpose.
However, PBOT’s Kuck says that the second spray was due to a technical limitation of the truck itself. It turns out the truck must be turned on for the spray nozzles to be turned on or off. Based on conversations with the man operating the truck, here’s how Kuck says the incident happened:
“When the bicyclist rode in front of the truck, he [the truck operator] stopped, turned his engine off, and talked with the bike rider. He tried to apologize but he was alarmed by the anger of the bicyclist so he got back in his truck… He had to turn the engine back on before he could turn the sprayer off.”
Kuck says it wasn’t the truck driver’s intention to spray the second time either.
In light of the incident, Kuck says PBOT has reminded all their drivers to check all controls prior to beginning their shifts. “We’ve reminded them that all spray controls need to be left in the turned off position.”
Kuck also confirmed that, in light of conversations they had with the driver, no disciplinary action will be taken. “Management is satisfied that he did not intentionally spray anyone or create a safety hazard for the cyclist.”
Thanks for reading.
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Based on the photo attached (which I realize is not the same truck), either the riders were on recumbents or maybe exaggerated the completely soaked part.
Based on the video clips attached to the original story responses, I was thinking it was gonna look like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2ahvMgCwrc
Vehicular assualt indeed!
If I wasn’t aware that my sprinkler “Accidently” sprayed your stereo and ruined it, a simple “I didn’t know won’t fix your ruined stereo.
What is PBOT doing to fix their avoidable mistake?
“We’ve reminded them that all spray controls need to be left in the turned off position.”
Is that not enough?
I saw one of those trucks operating on SW Jefferson last night. After watching it, it’s hard to believe that anything but the cyclists’ feet got wet, the sprayers are all aimed down at the street.
agreed. seems like a few cyclists tried to make a big deal out of a very small thing.
Whenever we get upset, as members of the cycling community, we should take a moment to cool down before we react. There are usually two sides to every conflict. Both sides often have some merit. By being the level headed ones, we improve the perception others have of us. As a result, their interactions in the future will be improved toward the community as a whole.
Fingers crossed.
Brooks, we share an interest in cycling. We aren’t Buddhist monks.
It is good to have some explanation of this event, and it appears completely understandable mistake. Looking at that picture of the truck, it is apparent that the driver cannot effectively see the sprayer, especially at night. Perhaps there should be a light on the sprayer control in the cab indicating whether it is on or off?
That said, I think that PBOT should operate those trucks on the hot summer days (that we hopefully will eventually have) to cool people off ! They clearly are very effective.
Thanks PBOT for looking into this promptly.
I didn’t see him
He came out of nowhere.
If the sprayer was left on by a previous operator, how was there water left in the tank? This also suggests the truck was driving all around town spraying stuff. I would like to see a picture of the cab to confirm the stated lack of spray indicators.
I’d imagine the pumps only run when the truck is running. Or the ignition is on at the very least.
sprayed water, split milk.
gah! SPILT!
Wait what? Cyclists in Portland complaining about getting wet?
Har!
From some of the people that we’re sprayed in the incident, I’m hoping we’ll hear again, in comments to this story, how PBOT’s and the driver’s account jives with what they encountered. Some of what the PBOT spokesperson says, makes sense.
I wonder though, about the explanation that the driver isn’t able to tell which of his sprayers are actually on at any given time. Some time, watch the trucks in operation. The drivers seem to be very skillful in being able to drive precisely where the water spray will wash street debris away, which I’ve been under the impression they’re watching what’s happening, in mirrors mounted on the truck.
Was Adam George the person on the bike that the driver found to be angry? What might he have said to the driver, angry or otherwise?
jives or jibes? opposites.
“jives or jibes? opposites.” captainkarma
Not sure they’re really opposites, but what I meant to say, is I hope that the people that got sprayed would speak up again to help determine how what PBOT and driver says, compares to their own experience.
I suppose ‘jibes’ would be the better word choice (from WordWeb): “1) Be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics ”
But ‘jives’ may have an interesting fit to this situation too, if you can kind of imaginatively see the various exchanges of this incident as a kind of music: ” 1) Dance to jive music; dance the jive).
So when something is “compatible, similar or consistent” with our experience, the informal term is “jibes with”. Interesting. Glad to learn that. I always thought it was “jives”. Thanks.
I am sure they are very skilled at working the trucks, but if he was spraying on the left side, maybe he wasn’t paying attention to the right side…
This is a bunch of BS. It takes PBOT a week to come up with that lame excuse? Why not let the driver talk to the media? Is he not a convincing liar?
I’ve witnessed the kind of behavior/attitude from cyclists that this driver encountered, and I don’t blame him for getting back in his truck. Like it or not, cyclists need to understand that their bad behavior casts a shadow on all of us.
brilliant. this comment manages to denigrate without providing a single concrete criticism.
Jonathan or others —
Has anyone seen a copy of PBOT’s procedures for operating a street spray vehicle?
Those things probably come with instructions.
I’m sure drivers need to be trained to carefully watch for pedestrians, and always be aware of what they’re spraying with their nozzles.
And know if the sprayers are turned on or off.
If the operator didn’t know whether the sprayers were on or off, I’m thinking they were not following the operating instructions.
Ted Buehler
Ted,
The operating instructions do state to check nozzles and gauges before your shift… which this driver did not do. Apparently PBOT management felt his story was plausible enough that they didn’t feel disciplinary action was neccessary and simply that a reminder about existing training would suffice.
This voicemail from PBOT contradicts the accusations against me in this article. https://www.google.com/voice/fm/09236789086930022323/AHwOX_BD17HJt0lRWvDwGKA0xUueeEms6QdJzPfYbYLKhfACCJdWOWmUFS8n38HAAR6Zakas8U_OugrE9KCmimVJPLCbEJ9JevM_dxL08Z1RUJ14qFL5JfDo_S9gf7X1M3wPQxlzqB6pHVzk7PLCy5l-fLL-je6K6Q
Is AdamG on the right thread? If so, is there an organizational affiliation or job title that might narrow this down a bit for context?
Yes right thread, As it says in the beginning of the voicemail it’s “Larrry Stevens, City of Portland, PBOT” I believe his title there is ‘Environmental Systems Division Manager’ Larry mentions disciplinary action (councling) was given to the driver, this brach of comments includes the statemment “(PBOT) didn’t feel disciplinary action was neccessary” So It seemed the best place to post record of the discipline that contradicts what Jonathan wrote.
I meant your title or organization.
Too many reasoned responses. More outrage please!
Outrage doesn’t do anything but create more outrage. And what’s so bad about reasoned responses? PBOT investigated and responded. It’s not reasonable to expect anything else.
Okay, so getting sprayed isn’t the highlight of anyone’s day. So the driver was careless about checking the nozzles. Did anyone get hurt? Were any bikes damaged? Is it really worth a confrontation?
It seems to be the new cultural norm that we over-react to everything. I’m not immune. Drivers who switch their turn signals on when they’re halfway around the corner are my pet peeve, as well as people who don’t understand that “I” is not the objective case of the personal pronoun, and I tend to gripe about both. But jeez, people, get a grip.
WOOSH!
New Portland cyclist rallying cry:
“Kill! Kill! Hate! Hate! Murder, murder, mutilate! Gooo team!”
This is an outrage!
The driver has a CDL, and is a professional driver. Implicit with that license is a greater level of expectation of competency. If he is so unaware of his surroundings, perhaps he should surrender his license. His story sounds just like a story.
perhaps have a “bike-move” to help move his family’s things into the street when they lose their home since he can’t get another job with his skill set.
being a “professional” doesn’t make one perfect. he made a mistake and a few cyclists got their feet wet.
The incident has been documented and the driver of the vehicle has this event on his record. If similar occurances happen again or this becomes a re-occuring event, then more action is required. As of now I am satisfied with the outcome.
Thanks for the follow up.
What Brooks said.
I’m also satisfied.
I’ve been biking in Portland since ’93. Doesn’t really matter but, currently, I’m feeling like I’m getting lumped into a group. One that seems entitled and complains a lot. We all know somebody who is always complaining. Funny thing, nobody usually likes them.
This incident reeked of over reaction from the start.
Go ahead, hate away.
Yeah, you better not complain – people don’t like it when you point out flaws. Better to just accept life the way it is and not try to improve it. At least you’ll be popular.
Fair weather cyclists I presume.
nailed it
The drivers account is not accurate, he did not get out of the vehicle the first time I halted the truck, I continued on my way after all the all the spraying stopped. I halted the truck again when he resumed spraying cyclists, this time he definitely got out to shut off the right side sprayer, but I kept my distance (the truck had just lurched at me and sprayed me twice), we never spoke, and I did nothing to convey anger during this.
“..he did not intentionally spray anyone or create a safety hazard for the cyclist.” ignores the many others on bikes that were exposed to this hazard, whoever created it.
I’m glad you posted here. I recalled the original story but it’s good to have a refresher.
I’m also glad that JM followed up; I also don’t by the unaware excuse, because being aware of what’s in the bike lane is part of this person’s job. Seeing as how he came up from behind the cyclists, I would say that I also don’t believe his account fully. I would hazard an opinion that, like most people confronted, he spun the story to try to look better for his superiors.
“…I halted the truck, …” Adam George
If you could, more details: What parts of people riding bikes and their bikes, were getting wet….feet?…lower half of body?…entire body? In comments to the last story about this incident, some people made extraordinary, but vague claims of being soaked, and nearly being blown off the road by the force of the spray.
Accompanying this story, the picture of the spray truck…assuming it’s similar to the one passing you and others by that night, shows the truck in spray operation. Given the angle of the spray of the truck shown in that picture, it’s difficult to understand how people on bikes could have got wet. So maybe you could explain that for everyone here.
If you said something to this driver, what was it you said? Maybe it was someone else on a bike that the driver found to react toward him angrily when he was outside his truck. If the driver said anything to you, what was it?
The photo of the truck is not represenative of the spray we were struck with, it was a high volume of pressurized water that covered my leg as I tried to outrun the truck, (fourtunetly I had just parked my recumbent) on this chilly night. I did not say anything to the driver, we re seperated by a stream of water and glass, i can’t. Imagine how I could have been a threat. I just stood a safe distance away in front of the truck and read the plate number untill the spraying stopped, I did this twice, then followed the truck for the few more blocks that our paths overlapped before throwing ‘the finger’ as many other cyclists had done in the last few minutes. My phone call to PBOT was not returned as part of this investigation.
“The photo of the truck is not represenative of the spray we were struck with, it was a high volume of pressurized water that covered my leg as I tried to outrun the truck…” Adam George
Interesting. I don’t mean to dog you about how much of you got sprayed, but your saying “…covered my leg…”, raises the question of how much of your leg was hit by spray directly from the truck. Also, how close were you to the truck while you were sprayed?
Maybe there was something wrong with the adjustment of this trucks spray nozzles.
Maybe it was someone else that spoke to the driver in a way he found to be angry. PBOT’s Chery Kuck reports that the driver stopped “…and talked with the bike rider. …”. What does Kuck know about what was said?
It doesn’t make sense that the trucks nozzles would normally be directed at a high angle above the street, because the greater distance the pressure stream has to travel before contacting the pavement, the less cleaning force there would be.
I’ve ridden a bicycle in Portland for a long time. I now ride everyday in Paris, France. The streets here get washed down by smaller versions of these trucks 3 times a day. I, and many other people have gotten sprayed on more than one occasion. If there weren’t suicidal buses, taxis, scooters, cyclists, pigeons and tourists all performing right hooks in front of me then maybe I could give this story some credibility. But I face real dangers everyday on my bike and therefore I cannot.
I see these crews out nearly every morning for my morning rides (3am Downtown). I find the drivers acct hard to swallow.
Their job requires them to come inches from objects along the path of spray.” Not aware” is lame.
Even if you go with the excuse of” unawareness,
How do you explain lurching at the cyclist confronting him? was any attempt made my the driver to contact supervisor by radio & report the incident?
The cyclists came from a Timbers game? Is it possible alcohol was a factor and allowed tempers to flare and exaggerate the situation?
Or maybe the driver was drunk? If you’re going to throw out baseless allegations you might as well be equal-opportunity insulting.
I dont see how a truck this size could possibly lurch, the power toweight ratio is not in the lurch catagory
I’ve really come to enjoy this website. I sure hope those kinds of remarks are not allowed to be posted.
Unfortunately, they are allowed to be posted. Read the original story and you’ll see what I am responding to.
Let me make sure I understand the editorial policy here. Saying a maintenance worker deserved to be shot is a-ok, and such comments will stand, but calling out the absurdity of such a statement is out of bounds and must be deleted immediately. Does that about sum it up?
Sigma,
I’m trying to find the offensive comment. When I do I will delete if necessary. I don’t appreciate your snarky critique of the “editorial policy” here. I am one person overseeing a lot of stuff and I absolutely try to keep the comments as clean as possible. In the future, if you can email me or describe the offensive comment that would be helpful. thanks.
Exactly why I have changed my posting name. Apparently the name I have posted under for years had become to “snarky” for Mr. Maus.
Having never made or condoning any sort of violent or aggressive behavior in my posts I found them being removed regularly. I have always tried to be polite, direct, and respectful while occasionally disagreeing with the broader viewpoints here. However, more recently it would seem that a “call it as you see it” opinion doesn’t always fly here on Bikeportland.
Jeff,
your commenter name doesn’t matter at all. What matters is the content of your comments. I see that I’ve published about 100 of your comments over the years. Thanks for trying to be polite. I welcome disagreement, however I will continue to delete comments I feel are inappropriate for whatever reason I deem necessary. Thanks.
The reason that this site has not changed to some sort of user comment rating system, like seen on Disqus or at Consumerist, is cost?
thumbsdown -1
Thumbsdown -1 = doubleplus good?
except that he didn’t just “turn the engine back on” – unless the act of turning a key causes a truck to lurch forward 20 feet.
Baloney. This excuse has just enough plausibility to it so that people who want to believe the driver, can. If the driver felt threatened, he should have called the police. (Do they have radios in these trucks? Did the driver have a cell phone?)
At least this has come to light. Hopefully the driver (and his peers) have been warned to be more careful with the sprayers. I expect PBOT to take harsher action should anything like this occur in the future, particularly if the same driver is involved.
Question: Are the nozzles fixed, or can the driver control the direction of the spray from inside the vehicle while in operation?
Here’s the worst problem: City trucks are aggressive and dangerous near me when I’m on my bike. I don’t see this when I’m in my car, often at slower speeds.
Has anyone else seen this pattern of city trucks being unsafe with bikes?
“…City trucks are aggressive and dangerous near me when I’m on my bike. …” Jan
Say more about what you mean. What are the trucks doing that makes you feel they’re aggressive and dangerous when they’re around you on your bike, but seemingly not so when around motor vehicles.
While riding a bike, have you ever got wet from the spray of one of these trucks? How much of your body got wet?
. o O {…suicidal buses?…}
http://bikeportland.org/2011/07/08/city-of-portland-street-cleaner-douses-group-of-riders-on-williams-56066#comment-1884791
2 comments above it too. Hopefully you will find this slightly more offensive than my “snark.”
Thanks Sigma. I didn’t read your comment carefully enough and didn’t realize you were referring to the other story. I deleted Paul Johnson’s comments immediately. Sorry they escaped my initial filter.
thanks.
There’s a certain irony about picking a fight with street-sweepers. As cyclists we really need them on our side. The driver messed up. I’m sure he’s taken a lot of heat and feels bad about how the whole situation went down. Intentional or not, we should accept his apology and move on.
I agree.
Object lesson: take pictures every time.
Try to get a clearly identifiable picture of any offender; this is legal on public property of which road is.
Only police will be have a chance of being able to get away with attacking you for taking their picture; try to take their picture from a safe distance.
Find 3rd party witness to the actual event and get ID and contact info.
BTW: with almost everyone willing to overlook the ineptitude of the truck operator we are overlooking a simple possibility.
This truck may not have been spraying simple clean water.
There is no reason to waste drinkable water to clean the roads nor to clean out the tank’s internal plumbing to make it the least bit sanitary.
There is no reason to believe that the water in that tank is any safer than partially recycled septic Grey water.
Even though we don’t have this issue here this truck looks >99% similar to a routine mosquito spray truck I had to avoid in Biloxi, MS.
Are there no vehicles of ANY type here in Portland that sprays anything other than pure natural goodness?
What kind of incompetents are driving those trucks?
Are we supposed to trust that everyone of these sorts of maybe-accidental/maybe-on-purpose incidents is definitely an accident?
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don’t rule out malice.
Biloxi is the reason I now live in PDX.
As a commercial truck driver, I’m going to have to call BS on the driver’s excuse, unless he’s trying to claim that he doesn’t check his equipment like the US DOT requires him to prior to leaving the yard…
But Jonathan, there is no consistency at all in your editorial policy — there are many, many commenters who share my view that you are selectively editing and posting what you want and don’t want based purely on your personal beliefs. Of course that is your right, but I know you want something more principled than that. You seem to be trying to achieve some sort of “balance” by allowing anti-bike commenters to stand and by editing out some of the more passionate bike advocates. But you must be aware by now that you are driving away people who never know what they can and cannot say. And by allowing certain anti-bike (my opinion) views to stay based on different rules (again, my opinion), you are concealing the true views of pro-bike Portlanders and making bikeportland worse for people who enjoy advocating for bike-riding. It’s a shame as the site is otherwise great, as always.
If a bunch of wet cyclists during dry weather are angry and throw the fingers at you when you are riding a spray truck. It doesn’t take a lot of common sense to realize that you are spraying them ….
We’ll just wait until someone gets hurt for them to do something about it …
Portland is filled with crying little babies and this forum seems to attract them in spades. Perhaps this city needs to stop bitching and grow a pair.