(Photo © J. Maus/BikePortland)
When I first heard about West Hills resident Eric Nagle’s effort to ban skateboarding in the West Hills, my first thought was: Is Zoobomb — and by extension, bicycling — at risk? Even though bicycling down the hills around Washington Park and the type of skateboarding Nagle is concerned with are different activities; it’s clear that for him, there is no distinction.
A series of emails from Nagle to the City obtained by BikePortland through a public records request, show that, contrary to his public stance so far, he is painting his concerns with a wide brush that includes not just skateboarding but bicycling and Zoobomb as well.
As we shared earlier this week, Nagle has pushed Commissioner Randy Leonard to propose an ordinance (to be voted on at City Council later this month) that will ban skateboarding on a significant swath of roads in the West Hills. Both Nagle and Leonard have said they are not concerned with Zoobomb and that they are focused solely on skateboarders who, according to the proposed ordinance, “use neighborhood streets as a venue for an extreme thrill sport, and not as a means of transportation for which the streets were designed.”
In emails over the past two days, I asked Nagle whether his efforts to ban skateboarding might bleed over into raising red flags around Zoobomb and bicycling. Nagle assured me that he felt Zoobomb, “Isn’t a big deal” and that he’s appreciative that the “ride like a ninja, not like a pirate” ethic has been adopted by the majority of people who do it. “Neither I, nor anyone else, to my knowledge,” he said, “is trying to end Zoobomb, now or in the future, for bikers.”
But that public stance is at odds with communications he’s had with the Portland Police Bureau and PBOT. Recent emails show that Zoobomb is clearly in Nagle’s crosshairs.
On February 17th of this year, in an email to PPB Central Precinct Officer Hilary Scott that was cc’d to a PBOT staff person, Nagle complained about the annual Zoobomb Century event planned for this Sunday. Nagle lamented that Mayor Sam Adams doesn’t take a firmer stance in ordering a police crackdown on Zoobomb. “Ever since Sam Adams told the police to leave them alone, it’s been a free-for-all in our neighborhood,” he wrote. Nagle added that, “… every Sunday night, at 10:45 pm, after most people have gone to bed, a pack of bikers and skaters blast down our streets, yelling and blowing stop signs.”
On Monday (June 11th), Nagle again brought up his concerns with the Zoobomb Century event in an email to PBOT neighborhood traffic safety specialist Greg Raisman:
“… one of the events advertised on the Pedalpalooza calender is a Zoobomb Century race on June 17… the organizers have no permit for this event, which will involve bikers and, presumably, skateboards, racing down the streets of Arlington Heights all day long, starting at 10 a.m., on a Sunday when tourist traffic in the neighborhood will be particularly heavy… PBOT is one of the sponsors of Pedalpalooza. Can you tell me why PBOT is promoting illegal events like this?”
The leaders behind Zoobomb have an admirable track record of safety, collaboration with the Portland Police Bureau, PBOT, and the Mayor’s Office. As evidenced by this BBC special and a major piece of public art devoted to it downtown, Zoobomb has enjoyed a respected place in our city for many years.
By raising questions and concerns about the downhill bicycling that occurs in the West Hills, Nagle seems to hope that his success in pushing for a skateboarding ban will spread to a crackdown on “bikers” and Zoobomb. If it does, that would be a very unfortunate consequence of his neighborhood safety crusade.
The ordinance is scheduled for a vote in City Council on June 27th.
Thanks for reading.
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Now that we know Nagle is a **deleted**, we can deal with him accordingly.
I’m thinking you might be able to follow him around with a helmet cam and catch him breaking a law or two in his motor vehicle… some citizen initiated citations might help sober him up and sway any council votes on the fence…
If ONLY this was a legally binding way for non-police to generate recordable offenses that stick to a person.
At this point I’m tempted to try and find a way to sell video footage to auto insurance companies that they can then software match to drivers they insure. This would function like an external black box recorder.
I get frustrated; if I can’t ticket bad drivers can I at least narc them out to their insurers?
You can, it’s called citizen prosecution and is a law in Oregon available to you.
Here’s Ray Thomas giving you the lowdown on Citizen Prosecutions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TB_Nm6utNc
and here’s a link on how to file one…
http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2010/03/a_citizens_traffic_ticket_in_f.html
Does this only apply in cases of damage or can it be used prosecute in cases of near miss or a 3rd person witnessing of a hazardous act?
For example this: What Schoolbus?
I think many of you need to put yourselves in the neighborhood’s shoes. Think you if you had people racing down your street all the time. What if your car got hit? Your cat? Even one narrow miss and you would be enraged. Enraged. If you think not, you’re not being honest with yourself.
And yet we are all free to drive as close as we like without feeling any reason to appeal to city hall for a ban on drivers. Its the double standard that drives me insane.
Thanks for doing that research Jonathan. It’s always best to know the truth.
I’ll second that!
What a misanthrope he’s turning out to be.
Of course he does.
That pesky old “public,” always wanting to use the things they pay for.
How is it different than a neighborhood organization arranging for speed bumps and roundabouts to control car traffic? One of my friends led just such an effort in her neighborhood to stop commuters taking shortcuts.
“Illegal Event!” – Popular retort used by litigious NIMBYs with lack of own hobbies.
Amazing, and unfortunately, not surprising.
Bikes are bad during the day when there is too much traffic.
Bikes are bad at night because I am in bed.
Mr. Nagle, perhaps you need to move (back?) to a gated “community”.
I really hope that OUR community shows up en mass on the 27th to prove that one connected (I don’t have Randy Leonard’s ear, do you?) lawyer cannot twist us all to meet his small and selfish vision.
That’s rich, a lawyer complaining about someone using a public resource in a way for which it was “not designed.” I’ve never heard about lawyers using laws in unintended ways. Nope, never.
“… one of the events advertised on the Pedalpalooza calender is a Zoobomb Century race on June 17… the organizers have no permit for this event, which will involve bikers and, presumably, skateboards, racing down the streets of Arlington Heights all day long, starting at 10 a.m., on a Sunday when tourist traffic in the neighborhood will be particularly heavy.”
tipped his hand, eh?
so ‘tourist traffic’ is o.k., just not when the four wheels are really really small, or there are, gasp, only two wheels involved?
Heh…isn’t that Mitch Greenlick’s district?
I love the picture showing the zoobomber coming back over the double yellows.
Must be freshly painted. They usually wear out after a few years due to all of the cars cutting corners and driving on the lines.
it’s only illegal to cross the double-yellow…
Told ya so.
This is all about wanting to exclude others.
Guess they don’t have enough money to buy an island.
What a lying “*ss*ole”. Everyone needs to call the city and let them know how we feel.
Sam: 503-823-4120
Amanda 503-823-3008
Nick 503-823-3589
Randy: 503-823-4682
Dan: 503-823-4151
Call away and be sure to inform them that you don’t live in the neighborhood, and therefore what you are supporting doesn’t impact your quality of life, and that you should have the right to go where ever you like do what ever you like and the actual residents of said neighborhoods be damned.
And really love the photo with the zoobomber riding the yellow line.
db,
The roads are public right of way. While the people that live adjacent certainly have a stake in how they are used, they should not have absolute authority over them. People have a right to ride skateboards and bicycles on public roads. Some people choose to break the law and operate dangerously. That type of thing happens all over the city every day. I think Nagle’s concerns about skateboarding are absolutely legitimate and that he has a very good case to work toward some solutions… Which is exactly what was going on before he decided to break off collaborative talks and pursue the ban option.
I think considering a ban is a very serious decision that should not be made lightly and should not be made under too much influence for a narrow set of stakeholders.
As for your comment about the photo. Glad you like it. I do too.
Thanks for the comment.
Not sure if you read the proposed ordinance to ban skateboarding on the West Hills but it also includes several other alarming aspects.
All fines related to skateboarding, roller skating, inline skating and scooter-ing will be increased to a minimum of $115. This means if a roller derby girl is skating through her neighborhood at night without a light and makes a turn without signalling, she can receive no less than $230 in fines. If a child (under 16) is riding his/her scooter on a downtown sidewalk without a helmet, they can receive no less than $230 in fines.
Does the punishment fit the crime? Absolutely not.
This ordinance was thrown together quickly and haphazardly. It will not only affect skaters on the West Hills, but skaterboarders, roller skaters, inline skaters and scooter-user throughout the city.
“…he has a very good case to work toward some solutions… Which is exactly what was going on before he decided to break off collaborative talks and pursue the ban option. …” maus/bikeportland
From your previous story about this issue:
“After months of negotiating with skaters and the city for this exceedingly modest program, we learned that the skaters were continuing to organize and promote illegal skate races in the neighborhood, and we decided we’d had enough. They just weren’t acting in good faith.” Eric Nagle, from an email to bikeportland
Notice ‘we’ in Nagle’s email. Maybe Nagle is the only person in his neighborhood that was involved in talks with the skaters to come up with a resolution to the problem skaters are creating, but this doesn’t seem likely. If additional members of the neighborhood were involved in the talks that had been going on, it seems likely they might have collectively decided about whether to continue or discontinue the talks, once the skaters apparently gave them reason to believe they weren’t going to act in good faith.
In some of your later comments to this story in the comments section, you refer to the problems skaters are creating in the neighborhood…as ‘his’ problem…Nagles. That would be true if Nagle were the only one in his neighborhood that was distressed with the presence skaters are bringing to the neighborhood. Again…possibly true…but most likely…not true.
People bring a dangerous, noisy, stress inflicting, purely recreational activity to someone’s neighborhood other than their own, and then just cannot seem to figure out why the neighbors aren’t delighted. Very curious.
“…While the people that live adjacent certainly have a stake in how they are used, they should not have absolute authority over them. …” maus/bikeportland
And the people living in this neighborhood obviously don’t have absolute authority over the streets they live adjacent to, and most likely don’t expect they should have such authority.
If they did have absolute authority over the streets they live adjacent to, they wouldn’t have to go through the difficult and complicated process of attempting to amend a city ordinance to address a problem of speeding skateboarders and zoobombers plaguing their neighborhood; They could just say: the law gives us the right to forbid you from doing such and such on the streets in this neighborhood.
“…People have a right to ride skateboards and bicycles on public roads. …” maus/bikeportland
Do people have the right, without permit, without even the courtesy of advance notice and willingness to plan with the involved neighborhood…to race on public roads? Racing, though not necessarily competing, seems to be what zoobomb and skaters have been doing on this neighborhood’s hilly streets. Without searching through the Oregon Revised Statutes…odds are probably good they’ll say riding on public roads is generally a right…racing is generally not a right…in fact, racing on public roads outside of permitted events is probably very illegal.
As usual ,for other than drivers, you only mention half the equation. With rights comes responsibility and no where do you look at the underlying issue that caused a resident of the neighborhood to approach city council with a complaint, and that is irresponsible road users. All you care to do is complain about someone exercising their rights.
So let’s look at what we have, road users who will not abide by the law, which is the major responsibility of any road user. Crossing a double yellow line is irresponsible behavior, but obviously these road users are not required to be responsible road users. Your choice of photograph to illustrate the story shows that you yourself don’t feel the need for these road users to be responsible.
Running stop signs at speed, again irresponsible road use, but that doesn’t seem to bother you either.
And the ever popular claim that the speed limit is 25 on that street, but that isn’t true, because the basic rule supersedes the posted speed limit. If you travel that road at 25 mph and can’t maintain your lane you are required by law to reduce your speed to one where you can navigate the road in a safe manner.
Advocating for cyclist and other vulnerable road users does not mean advocating irresponsible road use.
Your credibility outside of the cycling community would be better served if you would stand up against all irresponsible road use. Otherwise your demand for rights is no better than the demands to remove those rights.
I live on a major east side street where the neighborhood is primarily residential. During “rush hour” the parking lane turns into a travel lane and commuters from all over the region destroy my quality of life. They drive too fast down the hill. I have seen or heard at least one major accident each year I have lived here and none of them involved anything other than out of neighborhood travelers. All were driving too fast. Most cars were totaled and several life threatening injuries occurred.
Fumes, loud noises at night, garbage in my front yard.
I think that I should call Randy and have all commuters banned from my street. That would solve the problem. It would also be unfair and stupid since I knew this would happen when I moved to this location. Arguing for speed reductions, better enforcement and a few marked crosswalks would be more logical. Compromises tend to work better than bans.
I live in NoPo and people(young) in cars (small imports, with noisy tailpipes an poorly tuned engines) drive erratically and speedily through my neighborhood at night, several times a week, pausing at every available space in the road to turn circles and cut smokey burnout’s, over and over and over and over, and over. This in addition to blasting out their latest flav’o the month big beat thumpin’ jams! I guess we do not have any attorneys in my neighborhood to speak out against this horrible invasion of peace! oh well, It must be HELL to live in the west hills!
I accidentally voted thumbs up on your comment, I didn’t mean to. Sorry, you are minus one. That means it is just you, and your significant other that agree with you, for an actual total of just one thumbs up.
No jogging on the streets either, because that’s not transportation. How about removing care from the streets because they’re dangerous to the horse and buggy transportation? Jeez.
Really, puleaze do away with the yuppie runners. Just looking at them gives me the willies in their lululemon running outfits. I say ban them first. Could someone please make a law… They always look so stressed, as if they don’t finish their run in time they might be late for their yoga class and their coffee date.
I am a reverse snob. No running in outfits that cost more than $50
I’m still trying to understand the logic of proposing a ban on “thrill seeking” skateboarders (and maybe bicyclists), while failing to take strong action against the “thrill seeking” sports car drivers who plague our neighborhood streets.
The only distinction I can discern is that the skateboarders and people on bikes put only themselves at risk, while the racing drivers mostly endanger other road users.
It’s a very strange Bizarro logic that would propose draconian government action against an annoyance, while ignoring a deadly threat.
Bizarro, until we recall that this is a manifestation of what Alan Durning calls carhead, the mindset that always views what people in cars do as normal and what people who lack cars do as aberrant.
“… every Sunday night, at 10:45 pm, after most people have gone to bed, a pack of bikers and skaters blast down our streets, yelling and blowing stop signs.” – Nagle
How is this harmful? People are in bed. This person’s unrealistic stance and trite, inflammatory language is frustration-making. Does this coloncap even live on one of the routes?
I am starting a personal daily commute campaign to fully stop at west hills stop-signs, pause for a long while, then proceed out slowly in the hopes that I ruin Nagle’s day if only once.
Why are people so upset by bicycle stop-sign compliance when car operators run them more than 75% of the time?
His main issue seems to be with the noise, not with the fact that there are people out there using the street without his permission. Or, wait, maybe it’s noisy people who don’t have his permission?
I know a bunch of car people with loud-ish cars (still within legal, acceptable noise limits), would it be okay for us to zoom down his street at 10:45pm? We got mad skillz in the driving department. Plus we’re in cars, which he seems ok with anyway.
You hit the nail on the head.
In one of my first meetings with the committee to work on the skate issue Nagle said if skaters could blow the stop sign and be quiet then we should do that.
‘Tourist traffic’ is for recreational purposes, too, isn’t it?
Perplexed how one citizen can wield so much power/sway/control over something in the public domain. If he can be so effective, why can’t we, the BTA, etc. gather momentum for things that improve the collective good, like diversified transportation infrastructure?
unfortunately, motorists will always win in a majority-rules world unless some political will is shown by our typical spineless politicians.
It is only perplexing if you forget that those in power, for the most part, get where they want to go by car; their peers do to. Bikes, though their use may be on the rise, are still view by many as something for kids, students, people who can’t afford the real thing: a car.
Cars and our society’s over-reliance on them is seen as the standard, the norm, unremarkable. Kids on skateboards, or adults on kid’s bikes, though, are another thing entirely. What is this riff-raff doing on my street?!
Well, he wasn’t exactly acting alone. There has been a collaborative effort between police, skaters, neighbors including Nagle, PBOT, and others to solve these issues.
But yes, it’s amazing how much power one person can have. I actually think that’s sometimes a good thing. Nagle is smart and he has worked very hard and persistently to solve his problem. Nothing wrong with a dedicated citizen activist doing everything they can to make the city better… as long as they are acting in good faith and their ideas are valid, etc…
Another thing is this shows the power of the “safety” argument. Here’s a snip from an email from Nagle to the City on June 7th 2012 that I didn’t use in the story:
Freedoms lost are rarely regained. This is one more reason I Occupy.
While I respect your viewpoint on people empowering themselves to bring change to their community it is difficult not to interpret… ” if the city fails to do something about it, it may well be held accountable for a tragedy.” as nothing more than an idle threat from one who knows how to wield influence in their favor. It is as if he cannot wait.
Regarding the safety argument, there have been studies of mortality for people who commute by bike, and those who do not. The mortality for those who do not is 39% higher. This is enormous, much larger than the reductions in mortality from avoiding bicycle crashes, wearing seat belts, using air bags, or wearing helmets. If we intend to have a nanny state, let’s please have a rational, consistent nanny state, and let us therefore ban the frivolous use of automobiles.
If you don’t do that, then you may SAY it is about safety, but really it’s about finding ways to justify telling “those people” how they should act.
“…Well, he wasn’t exactly acting alone. There has been a collaborative effort between police, skaters, neighbors including Nagle, PBOT, and others to solve these issues.
But yes, it’s amazing how much power one person can have. I actually think that’s sometimes a good thing. …” …” maus bikeportland
There’s part of your answer, from bikeportland’s editor-publisher, jonathan maus himself:
“…he wasn’t exactly acting alone. …”. That’s probably a major understatement. If neighborhood residents hadn’t been antagonized over a period of years, first by zoobombers, and then by both zoobombers and skateboarders, Nagle would likely never have been able to summon the support for action against the speedway problems occurring in his neighborhood. It would have been just been one guy alone, trying to talk up some issue nobody else in the neighborhood would have been much interested in. So, zoobombers and skaters have unwisely allowed negative power to be created, power which has gradually fallen back upon them with increasing force.
Thoughts about why someone from a neighborhood has been able to mobilize concerted effort towards an identified goal, while bike and skateboard enthusiasts are struggling to hold onto their informally established speedway located in a residential neighborhood:
The neighborhood’s argument favoring their objective, is fundamentally and ethically stronger than that of bike and skateboard enthusiasts. Fundamentally so, from a livability standpoint. Ethically so, because what the neighborhood is defending, is their residence…their home. Though the streets running through their neighborhood are public, this is still their home. The interest in protecting ones home is commonly recognized and respected. The zoobombers and skateboarders interest in disruptively recreating in a neighborhood they’ve entered, uninvited and unwelcomed, is of vastly less importance to that of the neighborhood’s interests.
I don’t think it is “fundamentally and ethically stronger”. If you apply a count-dead-bodies test, it’s clear that typical car use in any neighborhood is a much bigger problem, yet calls to ban cars (or to limit severely limit their speed) are usually regarded as unrealistic, impractical, and out-of-touch. If you’re going to pass laws restricting other people’s use of public space, you had better be rational and consistent about it.
Skateboarders are in it for fun. Car drivers are in it for convenience. I don’t see that convenience necessarily trumps fun, and the social cost of that convenience is far higher.
Why am I not suprised?
I want to hear what Amanda has to say about this. She’s running for re-election in a close race.
I think that the skateboarders and zoo bombers that constantly break the laws by crossing over into the wrong lane, blowing through STOP signs, passing cars going in the same direction should grow up and take responsibility for their actions. With the way they are going, someone is going to die, there’s not doubt about it. And it’s not just them that are in danger; it’s anyone who lives in the neighborhood and anyone who happens to come across them on the road. Having fun is cool, but safety (for everyone) is more important.
I agree completely. But, as someone else pointed out a few days ago, why not enforce current laws? If some skateboarders are not following the current laws, why would they follow an additional one?
“If some drivers are not following the current laws, why should skateboarders be punished with an additional one?”
ZooBomb has been running every week for almost 10 years, probably tens of thousands of individual runs by now, and with an excellent safety record. What makes you think that zoobombers and skateboarders don’t care about safety? Zoobomb makes it a point that lights, helmets and other safety gear are highly recommended, and we all want to live to ride/skate another day.
How about two years running zoobomb had people seriously injured on their Timberline run.
No use of sweeps, no education of new riders, just head on up and bomb the road.
Zoobomb doesn’t care about safety in the slightest.
I drove up to portland specifically for zoobomb, so there’s tourism money right off the bat. My first run was extremely slow so the friend I was with could show me the lines and where to stop. Later, we progressed to faster runs. We had lights, we ran no stop signs, and he would not have skated with me if I didn’t wear a helmet. Did any part of your argument come from fact, or did you just think it would sound good?
Don’t let facts get in the way of a good retort.
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2010/08/daredevil_bicyclist_injured_in.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/biking_accident_leaves_woman_c.html
Indeed. Both of those articles are about Hoodbomb, not Zoobomb.
The bottom line is, nobody is going to be able to physically stop someone from breaking the law or ordinance, unless there happens to be a police officer around all time time.
The clear solution is to put in speed bumps or BOTS/DOTS or cuts in the road on SW Fairview. Once that happens, the problem will go away. The skateboarders will have to find another hill to have fun on (hopefully one that doesn’t have lots of traffic for their safety).
Well, plows and speed bumps don’t mix so well. Given the steepness and additional elevation, snow removal is a concern up there.
Snow plowing or skateboards, pick one.
they would never go for snow plows because that would require them to give up their free street parking during snow removal…
Snow Removal in Portland?
Does the city even own a plow?
This is a ridiculous suggestion and amounts to recommending the creation new hazards which don’t exist at present and would actually result in a much higher potential for injury.
If you lived in the neighborhood (like I do) and saw what I’ve seen, you’d be scared for the skateboarders and bicyclists. There have been many extremely close calls, and very recently, horrible accidents involving serious injury. Just the other day a skateboarder landed on the hood of a car one of my neighbors was driving, I’m not sure how that guys doing now, I hope ok.
This is not a game… this is not daddy and mommy taking away your 3ds that you feel like you deserve. Like I said, safety is the most important thing here (for all involved) and SOME of the skateboarders and SOME of the zoobombers don’t seem to care enough about themeselves or others to make that a priority.
I believe (as do other neighbors) that speed bumps or BOTS/DOTS or cuts in the road on SW Fairview will help keep everyone involved safer. That includes cutting down on the crazy drivers who routinely speed on SW Fairview in excess of 40mph+.
Well, I’d say it’s pretty much a given that you never bicycle or skate those streets yourself, hence your overblown fears. If you ever actually used a bicycle instead of a motor vehicle on those streets, you might have a different perspective.
quit lying like that… if that were true you’d be rallying for severe limitations on people driving motor vehicles, which killed somebody while I was typing this…
every 4 minutes somebody in the US dies in a motor vehicle crash…
where are your priorities? certainly not in safety…
40,000 people die in motor vehicle related incidents in a year.
A year consists of 365 days * 24 hours * 60 minutes = 525, 600 minutes
Divide that by 40K and you get 13.4 minutes
I’ve thought for a long time now that it’s a genuine fear for the safety and well being of cyclists is what triggers so much anger among some motorists.
I don’t think it’s consciously thought through in every case, but I believe it’s a fear that if cyclists are on the roads I’m driving on I might have to become more engaged and prudent in how I drive and I DON’T like that; I don’t like being startled seeing a vehicle i don’t expect to be on my road – being startled or having to think more about an activity I take for granted makes me a little angry, and they’re so vulnerable. If I hit one in a moments inattention I might kill them and then there’d be SO MUCH hassle.
Just contemplating the hassle makes me angry.
I am old enough to remember that argument/theory from people/society/media in regards to MOTORCYCLING 30-40 years ago!
It was weak then, it is extremely weak now.
You know, its time for people to get a flippin’ backbone and a clue. BICYCLES are here, they are NOT going to diminish in numbers or use anywhere.
Bicycles are going to be around A LOT MORE.
For GOD’s ‘effin sake! People DIE everyday, from all manner of things. Society cannot ride along with you in your car, like some drivers’ ed coach and coddle you, so you fell all warm and fuzzy.
If driving a car is that stressful for someone, and presents challenge’s so taxing to their ability to control it, perhaps they should consider not operating one.
I along with a good friend have coached and train people on racing motorcycles off road. We are very good at what we do.
We have had parent’s of young people refuse our advice when in fact, we had to tell them their child did not have what it takes, and in our opinion should not ride off road at all.
I have watched one family put a son in the grave, and two others are now in wheel chairs. That’s the shakes. “That’s racing” as the phrase goes.
Worried about me on my bike? A skateboarder ? Afraid you will hit me, or a child chasing a ball into the road? Then drive within your limit’s.
Look for exit’s constantly when driving, riding bicycles or motorcycles.
Do not get target fixated, ’cause if you do, you are gonna hit it.
You’ve hit the nail on the head JAT. We remind them that their choice of transportation contributes to tens of thousands of deaths annually in the U.S. alone.
Maybe, but that is paternalistic and ignorant. Mortality rate’s higher for the drivers, not the bikers.
And despite the claims of danger to others, in an average year cyclists kill about 1 pedestrian, and drivers kill over 3000. Even if you assume a 0.5% ride share (and never mind that pedestrians are completely excluded from interstates where drivers rack up miles in bulk), that still puts bicycles at 15x safer for others than cars. The numbers are clear — cyclists are the safety experts. Aren’t you impressed that they can ignore so many car safety rituals yet still be so much safer than cars? It’s almost as if the choice of vehicle was much more important than obeying all those rules.
SEE HOW HE IS NOT CROSSING A DOUBLE LINE?!?
I haven’t zoobombed in years, but banning a mode of transportation on public streets at the behest of one man greatly concerns me. I’m showing up at the hearing on the 27th.
BURR, I’ve commuted by bike and walked to the East side of Portland for 5 years. Sometimes I drive, most of the time, I find other ways. Biking is fun as is walking and I imagine skateboarding is a blast. We need more places to strech out and have fun, especially around a city when we’re all on top of one another.
Just because there’s a cool hill (Fairview) with lots of twists and turns… and we live in a liberal city, doesn’t give anyone (car, bike, skateboard, ect…) the right to put others safety in danger.
If the skateboarders or Zoo bombers really want to make a difference… have some of them sit on the corner of SW Fairview and SW Kingston on a nice day (maybe this weekend). Keep track of how many skateboarders and bikers (and cars) don’t stop at that intersection. Yell at them… tell them they are ruining the fun for others. Again, it’s only a matter of time before a young person dies… this isn’t a joke.
It is a joke for you not to realize that motor vehicles are the major cause of death among young people, that the compliance record of motorists is no better than that of any other users of our PUBLIC streets, and that by banning skateboarding all you are doing is sidestepping the real issue, which is the social harms caused by motor vehicles in our society, at many levels.
So go ahead and keep blaming the victims of motor vehicle violence, but you aren’t going to get any support of sympathy from me on that count.
You could make a video. Here’s mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en02Z61oMD0 . The people running that sign are cutting directly across the path I take (downhill!) on my morning commute. Notice that they also all have their windows up, deliberately choosing to impair their hearing so that they’ll be unable to hear oncoming traffic if it yells or rings its (legally required) bell.
OMG PROTECT PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES.
Burr,
Portland… where young people go to retire… love that line! Here we are, sitting at our jobs (I am, I’m guessing you are too) when we should be working. It’s kinda tough when it’s that nice outside.
Anyway, I never said I was for banning skateboarders or zoobombers. I’m 100% behind whatever solution makes the current dangerous situation safer for all. In my opinion, safety is more important then fines/rules/laws, which is why I purpose speed bumps or BOTS/DOTS or cuts in the road on SW Fairview to actually slow down/STOP the people most likely to get hurt… the skateboarders and bikers.
In that case you should be supporting the collaborative discussions that Billy has been trying to have with the neighborhood association regarding education and perhaps enforcement of existing laws for all users of our public streets; however, I was under the impression that you are actually supporting adding new hazards to the road that would only impact some users, and perhaps are also supportive of Mr. Nagle’s disrespect of the collaborative process and his end run around it in proposing a ban on skating.
Given that driving is the leading cause of death for most age groups, I’m going to start lobbying the city council to ban driving on all streets in the city. Think of the children.
Cars are coffins. Time to take back the streets.
Smoking and Diabetes kill more people in Portland than skateboarding and zoobombing. Where’s the legislation to band cigarettes and candybars?
Hey T.Q., Lay off my Payday bar! It’s my sweet,sweet, recovery choice on far flung rides with only crappy convenience stores to rely on. 🙂
Arlington Heights is a neighborhood blessed by being surrounded by world-class parks and facilities, including The Rose Test Garden, Japanese Gardens, Forest Park, the Oregon Zoo, the Hoyt Arboretum, the Forestry Center, the Children’s Museum, open resevoirs, the Archery Range, the Zoo Train, tennis courts, hiking trails and paths, the Rose Garden Children’s Park, the Max, and countless other statues, facilities, and vistas.
Shutting down any type recreation in this neighborhood sets a very bad precedent and I can not see why the city needs a brand new law to address the alleged safety concerns of the neighborhood association. The question is: Is safety the real concern here?
Wow, I’m surprised by the tone of all of this argument. Unlike most of the people posting here, I ride my bike almost daily over the roads in Mr. Nagel’s neighborhood. Over the last couple of years I’ve seen some great skateboarding down Fairview and other roads, but I also seen some really crazy stuff go on. That includes getting hit once myself by an out-of-control board- the rider lost control and rolled off into the gutter, while the board shot off like a death-torpedo- wrecking my rear wheel. I’ve dodged another run-away board, had close calls with several other skateboarders still somewhat under control, and seen riders and boards near take-out squirrels, bushs, mailboxes, and stray cats. I’m not going to touch the argument about personal freedom to play dangerous games, but I’ve seen a lot of skaterboarders get hurt, including a couple of nasty head injuries. A couple of the side roads off of Fairview are even steeper- whenever I see a skateboarder going down em, I stop and listen- running about 50/50 for sounds of screams and crashes. And all this is mostly between 5 to 7pm when I’m passing through, not at 11 or later when the good stuff starts. So I can understand local residents that are concerned about their own or their children/pets/property safety on the streets. The take I have is these roads are just too steep and twisty for most skateboards to be sure of keeping control.
I agree that those roads are too steep for the majority of people to ride safely on a skateboard. I wouldn’t ride there. I might inline skate there if I had to, but I waste a lot of brake… Heck, I won’t even ride my old steel wheeled bike up there unless its bone dry, the brakes are just too weak to deal with it wet.
The point many of us are already making is that there are already laws about this. A poor rider overshoots a turn and crosses a yellow line? Ticket. Can’t stop for a stop sign? Ticket (yes, save those for really dumb things please, but it is an option already on the books). Careless/reckless driving maybe if you or your board hit someone or something.
As someone who has worked closely with Mr. Negle to put on bicycle events in the Arlington Heights area, I can tell you that they have expressed two concerns:
1- Dangerous and Unlawful Skateboard. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll5_-UWewRg
2 – Daytime zoobombing events that are not properly permitted, planned and insured with the City, PPB, PP&R and PBOT.
Jonathan, your statements that express that Mr. Nagle and the Arlington Heights Neighborhood Association are trying to crackdown on the weekly nighttime Zoobombing and other cycling activities are blatantly incorrect. In Fact, Mr. Nagle and the Arlington Heights Neighborhood Association have asked that we bring back the Rose Garden Circuit Race series next year.
SB,
I disagree. I thought long and hard before making that assertion and I did so based on my gut feeling, the facts I know, and the communications Nagle has had with me and with other stakeholders during this process.
He said he was solely concerned with safety of skateboarding, but he’s now flagging other issues (noise), the Zoobomb Century and mentioning bike riders in communication with the city. In his emails, he has also shown that he is not in favor of the current collaborative working relationship between Mayor Adams, the Police Bureau, and Zoobomb.
Based on his actions and his communications, and my gut instinct, I believe my story is fair and accurate. I do not report stuff like this without giving it a lot of thought.
Also, I don’t see clear connection between this issue and the Rose Garden Circuit Race.
Happy to hear more feedback. Thanks.
JM, you bring in the connection between bike races and this issue when you state that “Nagle seems to hope that his success in pushing for a skateboarding ban will spread to a crackdown on “bikers” and Zoobomb.”
Bike racers, commuters and Zoobombers are all “bikers”. I see nowhere in your published communication with Mr. Nagle that show he is trying to stop the nighttime Zoobomb activities and other “bikers” from using the roads.
Whats the big issue with daytime events? Why should a bunch of people riding their bikes need a permit? Unless they plan to close the streets?
I think perhaps someone should invite Nagle on the World Naked Bikeride! I think he needs to lighten up & let some sunshine into his life!
The prototypical BP.org thread and debate! Neighborhood is fed up with reckless skaters. Jonathan extrapolates argument to suggest that neighbors also aim to shut down Zoobomb and, by extension, ban bikes from their twisty hilly roads. All 20 regular posters light up the debate with the patented arguments they use for nearly every topic (dislike of rich folks, contempt for government and police, libertarian ideals, the assault on personal freedoms, peak oil, right-of-way, etc.) and completely miss the point. Comedy gold even though you know all your favorite punchlines are coming.
Since we all seem to agree that we don’t need nor want an ordinance banning skaters or the installation of traffic calming devices, then how about the cops run an enforcement operation on the streets and intersections in question? Cite the speeders, the double yellow crossers, and the stop sign runners regardless of mode.
Sorry! I forgot that anytime a skater or bike rider gets a ticket, then the police are overreaching their authority by engaging in profiling and God kills a kitten. The outrage! The injustice! The death of freedom itself!!! It just makes me want to ride full bore into the back of a parked Tri-Met bus!
With this threat to the very fundamental principles set forth by The Founding Fathers, I simply cannot muster the enthusiasm to participate in the weekend’s Michael Jackson Memorial Naked Bike Ride/CRC Awareness Bake Sale/ Vegan Craft Brewery Tour/ Steampunk Mustache Styling Contest and Gentlemen’s Tweed Coat Dance Party.
fail.
Dude, you are as full of gas as anyone here, including me.
And despite the many broad brushes being wielded, people have a forum here to express what ever they feel, within the construct of what the blog author will allow. It his his website.
No one else in Portland is doing it. I for one sometimes wish others would. No slight to Mr. M.
You can mock whatever sub-genres you like too, if that makes you feel better.
I can speak my mind about an influential lawyer who lives in the “House on the hill” if I want. So what.
Drunks have sideswiped, and hit and run my car 3 times in the last two years in front of my house.
They have careened off my car, and hit two or three more on their way down the street. I even did leg work to find one of them and handed PPB the proof. “we will get back with you.”
That’s what ya get in NoPo.
I ain’t really bent, I actually expect it.
And Mr. Negle knows what to expect in his neighborhood.
Action. Especially when he phrases it like this….
” if the city fails to do something about it, it may well be held accountable for a tragedy.”
So once again I offer an attorney’s words to the City of Portland for you and Johnathan to interpret.
And BTW you really should educate yourself on the phrase “Founding Father’s” before you bandy it about unknowingly, that truly reeks of so much Tea Bagger b.s.
And by the way, my addition to next years Pedal Pallalala, schedule will be the ” Hunter S, Thompson memorial Bike and Blast ” for all those that choose to express their freedom bearing arms and riding bikes, and “Ol’ Glory” flown upside down.
It is America, I can make it what ever I want, right?
appears BikeSnobNYC has gone back to being anonymous. Your cynicism tiring, useless really.
Hey Dan, if this concern over cynicism is directed at me, all i can say is, my point is ultimately the same as your’s. ” is this really about safety?” I for one revel in the diverse aspects of what happens throughout Portland in and around cycling and skating. If what I said comes off as cynical, I do not believe you are truly understanding me motivation to remind people that what we bring or do on a bicycle (or skateboard) individually, is our own perspective, and that is jut one perspective. Sorry if I seem verbose, and out of line.
Oskar, the comment was not in reply to yours – it was to spinners.
I have numerous times been almost right hooked by cars turning into the Interstate Fred Meyers yet I have not started a movement to either ban cars on Interstate Ave or even ban right turns into the Freddy’s parking lot.
This poor intolerant elitist that is so disturbed by the sound of joyful shouting every Sunday should be glad he doesn’t live in my neighborhood with the 2 am train whistles and all weekend long PIR races. But I like the noise because its the sound of humanity at work and play.
Thank you fellow North Portlander.
Is he aware that Zoobomb has a MONUMENT downtown?
Well, if they ban skateboarding down those hills, what’s the logic in not also banning kids’ bikes, razr scooters, inline skates, and people running fast downhill?
It’s all about “slippery slopes”, huh ?
One’s right of usage on public rights of way does not inherently include racing on them. Racing on open public rights of way is illegal here and everywhere no matter what sort of vehicle is used. Period. End of story.
Any organized event on a city street requires a permit: block party; Portland Marathon; Twilight Criterium. If Pedalpalooza is organizing a street event and PBOT is sponsoring it then Pedalpalooza and PBOT need a permit. If they do not have a permit they should be shut down.
Why do I get the feeling that these are the same self-involved twits who think that they are entitled to cut single-track trails through Forest Park? If you want all cyclists to be branded as outlaws, keep pumping your egos, dudes!
Fail.
According to your logic almost every pedalpalooza ride would require a permit.
According to standard logic, all local roads are public streets and you are allowed to ride your bike anywhere on them without a permit, whether alone or with a group of other cyclists.
We simply don’t need more new unenforceable laws to address the NIMBY issues being discussed here; plenty of laws already exist to address them.
WOW! That is a lot of comments!
I’m Cupcake. I’m running the century. Thank you for taking an interest in our humble event. I hope to see you all on Sunday at the top of the hill.
If you need more info; email, text or call me.
503.839.5820
…whose, mine or Lazy Spinner’s?
“…By raising questions and concerns about the downhill bicycling that occurs in the West Hills, Nagle seems to hope that his success in pushing for a skateboarding ban will spread to a crackdown on “bikers” and Zoobomb. …” maus/bikeportland
That is, people of a type of biking that have chosen to use west hills neighborhood streets specifically as a speedway for biking, with slight regard for neighborhood residents, their friends, or anyone else responsibly and courteously traveling the streets of this neighborhood.
Over the years, despite its claimed ‘safety record’ zoobomb has run the gamut of noisy disruption to the neighborhood and injury to its own participants.
Nagle seems to have made his “ride like a ninja, not like a pirate” remark, indicating to those of us not living in the neighborhood, that maybe participants really have moved towards reducing the loud, late night yelling that’s been typical of the group. Also suggesting that, if they truly had cut back on the noise, the neighborhood might be able to live with zoobomb’s continued once weekly presence in the neighborhood.
This is what the history of Nagles correspondence with the city, as recounted in email excerpts bikportland’s publisher-editor has posted to his story, seems to be reflecting about the neighborhood’s current feeling as to the presence of zoobomb in the neighborhood.
Defending people opting to leisurely ride a bike or a skateboard through other people’s neighborhoods for gentle recreation, whose character is courteous to neighborhood residents, is fine: Defending people that use someone else’s neighborhood with arrogant, noisy disregard for neighborhood residents is not acceptable.
I live in the neighborhood in question and there really is no right answer other than enforcement of existing laws. I ONLY drive a car, own no bike or board, but I do not believe we are correct to limit anyone’s right to have fun on these streets how they choose so long as they do not risk others or their property. I have been very worried a time or two when I am already at a stop and assume the approaching bike rider is also going to stop, but just as I begin to pull away from my stop sign they simply blow through theirs. That’s incredibly thoughtless and dangerous to all involved, and it seems they believe that just because they are “already going fast” they are under no obligation to stop, well cars go fast too yet they manage and bikes stop much more quickly and in a shorter distance than cars.
Virtually all riders/boarders I see are respectful and safety conscious but for those few who are not, like I described, they should be ticketed and fined so they learn that they need to share responsibility with the residents for a safe and fun place to live. This, if I may say so, sounds more like an individual who is just grumpy and one of those “get your ball out of my yard” types who hates anyone younger/healthier/happier than he is.
We will never get anywhere by limiting freedoms, so long live the bikers and boarders, and let’s all just share the road.
PS: I also find the complaints about “noise” to be silly and trivial. For a short time each Sunday (that happens like clockwork), big deal! Some people live near train tracks, highways, firestations, etc. How annoying can the sound of laughter and fun even be to some people? Personally, I love hearing the cheers and sounds of life well lived. I realize I am likely in the minority of residents here, but I don’t consider this “my neighborhood” because I think many people from around the city, state and world enjoy the parks and activities here, or maybe I am just lucky to not be jaded, miserable and angry at the world. 🙂
If you have the right of way, take it. They need to learn the hard way that they can’t just blow through stop signs.
Yeah! Same goes for little kids running after balls in the street! Or coasting on their bikes out of driveways without looking! Run over ’em once, and they’ll think twice about playing outside! Scofflaws.
right…
I’m sorry, but I’ve been noticing that more and more drivers are waiting for me as I slow down approaching a 4-way stop, expecting me to blow through it. This ends up wasting my time and theirs. Is it really that bad that drivers are expecting us to blow stop signs right in front of them? What kind of image are we creating for ourselves?
I notice lots of drivers that run stop signs and speed just to get around me so they can right-hook me…what kind of image are they creating for themselves?
…A well-reasoned comment.
My plea to you…Get your behind to your neighborhood association meetings and spread the word!
I think it’s hilarious that the kids are out having a blast on their boards while I imagine Mr. Nagle pouring over law books and firing off emails, while seated in his well-worn lazyboy. “Hey Nagle, the sun’s out dude!” 😉
-DK
Well said, I posted a similar comment just now about the sounds of joy before I saw this, so true!
Also, I actually wouldn’t mind hearing PIR events late into the night, but I’m a gear head at heart. 🙂
My dad used to say we was so po’ we never lived no wheres fer ’nuff to not hear no trains at night.