“I will not listen to nonsense!”
– Greg Johnson, IBR Program Administrator
The top official in charge of the Interstate Bridge Replacement Program got into a heated back-and-forth with critics at a neighborhood meeting back in December (view it in the video above). IBR Program Administrator Greg Johnson questioned the man’s credentials and called critics’ claims “nonsense” before a moderator stepped in to cool things down.
The exchange was shared on Twitter yesterday by Bob Ortblad, a retired engineer and active critic of the project. Ortblad has pushed his idea for an immersed tube tunnel across the river (instead of a bridge) for years and it appears that his activism around this issue has gotten under the skin of Johnson.
As we shared in February 2022, Ortblad sees several advantages to a tunnel across the Columbia River. He believes it would be cheaper (the estimated cost of the IBR currently stands at $6 billion), have a smaller footprint, wouldn’t lead to a high bridge with a significant incline/decline, and so on. His dogged advocacy for the tunnel and a general distrust of the IBR team, has helped win support of many people who live on Hayden Island.
The Hayden Island Neighborhood Network supports a “No Build” option for the project and has pushed the IBR to study more options — including a tunnel. On March 5th, Hayden Island Neighborhood Network Board Chair Martin Slapikas wrote a 14-page letter to the Oregon Government Ethics Commission that blamed Johnson and the IBR of a conflict of interest.
Suffice it to say there is no love lost between IBR staff and some residents of Hayden Island.
The exchange at the December meeting came after Ortblad shared a 20-minute presentation about the tunnel. In a Q & A session that followed, Ortblad shared a very sharp criticism of a tunnel option study published by the IBR that he called, “inaccurate.” “[The tunnel study] just doesn’t hold water,” Ortblad told the audience. “It should be retracted.”
Then Johnson was asked a question about whether or not the IBR has a 3-D model of the proposed bridge design (a key thing fueling distrust has been the lack of detailed visuals of the project). Johnson took the mic and said the IBR has a 3-D tactile model of the bridge they created for people with visual impairments. The model is only available for viewing at the IBR offices.
“We don’t have a final design yet,” Johnson continued.
“So that’s a no?!” someone (who appeared to be noted provocateur and activist Joe Rowe) then yelled from the audience.
“We have a 3-D model in our office, sir, where you can come over you can see it.”
“So 10 minutes ago I asked Ray [Mabey, Assistant Program Administrator for the IBR] and he said ‘no’ so I gave him the finger because I know you all lie. So you do have one! What’s the truth Ray?!” Rowe continued to shout.
A moderator then stepped in to try and cool things down.
Then Johnson (with the mic in hand) turned toward Ortblad and said:
“Bob has accused folks, who are licensed engineers, of malpractice. Bob, where’s your license? Or are you just a citizen who is interested? You are talking about folks who are licensed.”
“I had a license for 40 years,”
“But where is it now?” Johnson replied.
Then Rowe yelled, “You work for us! You should answer questions! Take the heat, Greg!”
“Bring the heat!” Johnson replied.
Then when the moderator stepped back in, Johnson said, “I will not listen to nonsense.”
At that point, the moderator took the mic from Johnson and tried again to calm everyone down.
Then a few seconds later, Johnson began to speak again and said, “We’re not afraid to be challenged, but I will not stand for folks’ reputation being besmirched to say we are putting out inaccurate information.”
The exchange shows how pressure around these flailing megaprojects impacts the people who work on them. Two weeks ago we shared how another top staffer in charge of another I-5 expansion project broke down during a meeting after having to tell committee members the project he promised would bring hundreds of high-paying jobs would have to be paused due to a lack of funding.
Zef Wagner, who responded to the video on Twitter, said that despite these pressures, Johnson’s behavior as a public servant was, “truly unprofessional and unacceptable.” “As someone who has been in plenty of public meetings in a similar role, representing a government agency, I certainly hope I never disrespect a member of the public like this.”
The exchange also illustrates just one of the flashpoints around the IBR, a project that just barely received support from the Oregon Legislature this past session. One the final day of the session, lawmakers agreed to commit $1 billion in general obligation bonds ($250 million a year for four years) to the project. That commitment was crucial for competing for federal grants and it matches what Washington has already committed.