Splendid Cycles Big Sale

Police report on Ladds Circle enforcement

Posted by on April 12th, 2007 at 5:32 pm

I just received a report on Wednesday’s enforcement mission at Ladds Circle from Traffic Division Sergeant Mike Fort:

Normally, I would just report the statistical results from an enforcement mission, but this mission in Ladd Circle was so dynamic, that I am obligated to share much more of the story. Traffic officers worked this location because of a specific complaint from a neighborhood resident that said he and his wife were hit by different bicyclists on different dates. Most violators were referrred to the Share the Road Safety Class.

No less than a dozen people from all modes of transportation contacted us during the mission, and thanked the police for “finally doing something about the bicycle problem that has been going on for years….” People on bikes, cars, and walking their dogs approached us with unsolicited offers of thanks and encouragement.

Attached is a photograph (above) of some the enforcement activity that shows bicycles and motor vehicle violator contacts as well as a bicycle in the distance that ran the stop sign at Ladd Ave. and was later stopped. This photo shows the dynamics of this area that is full of multi-users including pedestrians that cross streets during routine neighborhood walks.

Additionally, I personally witnessed three incidents that nearly resulted in serious crashes. One of those incidents was a bicyclist that passed two other bicyclists that had stopped, and just started to go again, when he passed by their left through the stop sign at nearly 20 mph, then cut to the right in front of them causing them to veer away to avoid collision. All this happened while a car had just passed in the circle.

Finally, at two different times, two different cyclists warned other cyclists that police were working the stop signs.

In spite of those warnings, here are the numbers:

DATE: Wednesday, April 11, 2007
TIME: 0730-0930
LOCATION: Ladd Circle, Southeast Portland
OFFICERS: Seven (7) Motorcycle Officers

CITATIONS:

BICYCLE MOVING VIOLATIONS: 47
BICYCLE EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS: 3
MOTOR VEHICLE VIOLATIONS: 9

TOTAL: 59 CITES

So that’s the Police perspective on the situation.

NOTE: We love your comments and work hard to ensure they are productive, considerate, and welcoming of all perspectives. Disagreements are encouraged, but only if done with tact and respect. If you see a mean or inappropriate comment, please contact us and we'll take a look at it right away. Also, if you comment frequently, please consider holding your thoughts so that others can step forward. Thank you — Jonathan

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Todd B
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Todd B

Priceless.

Burr
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Burr

I’d be really curious what the ‘bicycle equipment violations’ were.

Clark
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Clark

I wonder how many meth-related crimes happened while those 7 motorcycle officers were busy working in Ladds Circle.

Disco D
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Disco D

Fixies w/o brakes probably.

Paul Cone
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Paul Cone

Any word on the afternoon report? They were there until at least 6:40 pm. I didn’t count exactly but it seemed to be about the same number of officers, and they had two or three bikers pulled over.

Also I find it curious that the report includes comments from residents but not any from the bicyclists.

Joe
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Joe

Clearly, there are certain rogue bicyclists who not only refuse to follow traffic laws, they endanger others when they do it. I usually don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign unless there are other vehicles approaching, but I certainly would never pedal at top speed through a stop sign or signalized intersection, like the one described in the report. We know they’re out there and because of them and the problems they’ve created, no matter how few there may be, they will continue to make the rest of us look unsafe and cause anti-bicyclist sentiment to brew among others.

Martha S.
Guest
Martha S.

Well, it does make sense that they wouldn’t include comments from the cyclists… you can pretty much assume that anyone getting a ticket is going to be unhappy. Did any cyclists who were not pulled over make any specific comments to the cops?

There is also the possibility that this is more of a local disruption than many of us immagine it to be. That said, I have serious trouble imagining two seperate occations of pedestrian/bike collisions as were desribed above, unless that couple has a tendancy to jump out in front of cyclists or something. It does, however, seem like many of us are ignoring the pedestrians in Ladds addition. I still think yeild signs in this area would be wise; but perhaps those signs could be sure to mention pedestrians, reminding cars and cyclists to yeild to peds. We all know to look out for cars… but I think we may forget to keep an eye out for peds some times.

alan bluehole
Guest

Thank you for getting the report. Someone on the Mercury comments chastised me for wanting the report. What is wrong with information, I say?

Now it would be nice to know if the story of the two family members getting hit is true.

Jim F
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Jim F

I can’t even tell you how many fellow cyclists blow by me every day while I am stopped at red lights. I hope the cops do more of these enforcement actions. They are needed.

Rider
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Rider

“People on bikes, cars, and walking their dogs approached us with unsolicited offers of thanks and encouragement.”

I’m guessing some ofthose bikers who thanked the cops are residents. This is an example who I mean would be understandably thankful for the cops being there http://bikeportland.org/2007/04/11/enforcement-action-at-ladds-circle/#comment-363312.
I wonder what the other two close calls he saw were. One things for sure if you could see so good that you don’t need to stop, you wouldn’t have gotten a ticket because you would have seen the 7 motorcycles and close calls wouldn’t have happened because your perfect vision and hearing would have worked their magic. Oh well. being a biker doesn’t give you magic powers.

conquistador
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conquistador

Regarding the officer’s observation of several near-misses, it seems obvious to me (but apparently not to the officer) that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle was at work.

That said, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those who didn’t stop. If you didn’t see 7 motorcycle cops riding around in a very confined space directly in front of you, you probably wouldn’t see a small child or elderly person crossing in a crosswalk.

wyatt
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wyatt

Don’t let the statistics provided lull you into a false sense that bicycles were not specifically targeted. They were. Granted, that much may be obvious to anyone reading this blog, but cars need to be watched far more closely. That too should be obvious. Police focus on far more dangerous intersections would be time, and taxpayers’ money, better well spent.

wyatt
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wyatt

To summarize: bikes just aren’t that dangerous to warrant that kind of operation.

Klixi
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Klixi

It’s a copout to say “Why are they wasting resources here when there are bigger problems elsewhere?” Shifting blame when caught breaking the law is cowardly, and if you have a problem with the law then do things to change it rather than pretend the law doesn’t exist or apply to you. Why do cyclists always get mad at cars who run stopsigns yet I see the majority of cyclists run stopsigns on a daily basis. We can’t claim to want all the rights that cars are afforded and then also say “but since we’re bikes, we should also be allowed to do this, this and that.”

If I think a loaf of bread is being sold for too much, does that give me the right to just steal it because that is what I think should happen? Of course not. If you disagree with the location of a stop sign, follow the legal procedure to have it reviewed and/or removed. Until that happens, obey the laws that are around. They will not only keep you safe, but they will improve the opinions that peds and drivers have of us as a bunch of bike riding miscreants.

Also, just to throw this in: A few nights ago I was walking to Fred Meyer (I live on NW21st) and as I was walking through an intersection (no cars coming in either way, and it was night) a lady on a bicycle came BLASTING through the intersection, literally hitting my ribs with her handlebars, then not even bothering to apologize. She was a very “normal” looking girl, not like the hipper-than-thou cyclists who hang out at Portland Coffee Shop all day. I think I’m pretty sure I know how the people in Ladd’s Addition feel now about cyclists who don’t stop.

Just think about your actions.

Logan 5
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Logan 5

wyatt and others, I think the whole point of this is that people who ride bicycles do not ride in some sort of selfish, elitist utopia. Picture this: I am a car at an intersection and proceed forward after a full stop. Just then, a bicyclist comes hauling through the intersection in front of me (much like the 47 noted above). Being a human, I naturally don’t want to kill somebody and I slam on the brakes and wham, I get hit from behind by the person who thought I was continuing on. To say that there are better places to enforce the law is ridiculous.

Qwendolyn
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Qwendolyn

I have to disagree strongly with Klixi.

Here’s why:

There ought to be something done when a bicyclist hits a pedestrian. But that’s not what this story is about. Nobody hit any pedestrians today. People were ticketed for moving violations and equipment violations.

What happened today was about the police being at the beck and call of people with money.

There are laws on the books that never get enforced except when they are needed to control people. If everyone had the book thrown at them every time they did anything illegal we would live in a damn police state. I guarantee that someone with money and power could make your life miserable by prosecuting you for trumped up charges.

That is why a sting like this is nothing more than harrassment. When laws are arbitrarily enforced (as they were with this stop sign sting,) it means the common man is getting shafted and the police are overlooking some fat cat in a suit somewhere who is making money off the sweat of others’ backs.

The criminal justice system in this country is classist and has its priorities way out of whack.

So here’s to militancy, and here’s to cycling.

Watch out for cops, and ride on.

Peter
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Peter

Isn’t this just more incentive to get the Idaho-style ‘stop-as-yield’ law passed? What’s the status with that proposed legislation, anyway?

Paul Cone
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Paul Cone

The officer used the extreme example, rather than what I think is what happened to most of the other 46 people cited, which was probably slowing to almost a stop, looking around, and making sure it was clear to go before proceeding. That is what most people on bikes (and in cars) do. The posts on previous threads from people who have gotten tickets indicate that.

This is a lot of things (bikers being dangerous among them) but it is mostly as Qwendolyn said, harrassment at someone else’s beck and call.

brad
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brad

I guarantee that even if everyone on my residential street called 10 times each this week to report cars speeding, there might be one officer lurking around.

N.I.K.
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N.I.K.

She was a very “normal” looking girl, not like the hipper-than-thou cyclists who hang out at Portland Coffee Shop all day.

Alarmed by the fact that it’s not just those smug tattooed hooligans who are simply *always* breaking the law, are you? I’d advise you to also wise up to something even bigger than that, Klixi: this *was* a waste of resources, and I get to say this without it being any sort of copout because I always stop at stop signs and follow traffic laws to a T.

Why was it a waste of resources? Because all that happened was the PPB made 47 examples to satisfy residents of one community who were organized enough to issue complaints in a given window of time. A scant handful of the stopped cyclists will think twice before blowing a stop sign. The rest will consider it as one of those few instances where they got caught and keep doing what they do. Meanwhile, the PPB, having flexed its muscles and seemingly made a point, can go back to discretionary enforcement at the sheer whim of how much a given officer cares to do their job*. The rogue cyclists will continue blowing stop signs and motorists will continue to do rolling stops because most of the time, there’s precious little to worry about, as long as there’s not a cop around or another human being winding up under a given vehicles tires.

*Yes, this is acknowledgment that some care to do things right and others do not. No more, no less.

Rider
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Rider

Are you talking about examples of tickets like this one Paul? http://bikeportland.org/2007/04/11/enforcement-action-at-ladds-circle/#comment-362517
Hav you ever riden through Ladds? Have you kept your eyes shut to that fact most bikers simply blow throug the stop signs there. Bikers don’t even hit their brakes. At least car drivers slow down there. Go watch – get a cup of coffee at Palios and watch- then come back and say that most are coming to a near stop. You won’t be able to because it is not a true thing to say. Bikers not even slowing is why neighbors there are talking about their kids getting hit. Why would someone like Chris who lives there, rides a bike, and fears for his kids when they try to cross at the circle lie?

Curt Dewees
Guest
Curt Dewees

In response to the commentator who wrote, “Bikes just aren’t that dangerous to warrant that kind of [police sting] operation.”

Wrong.

A year or two ago, a bicyclist ran a red light or stop sign in Corvallis, Ore., and hit and killed a pedestrian. That’s right, KILLED the pedestrian.

And here in Portland, a bicyclist trying to speed through a crowd of people near the Rose Garden Arena apparently lost control of his bike and struck a young child, seriously injuring the child.

I sincerely believe that most of the complaints from Ladd’s Addition residents were from nice, normal folk who are afraid of this kind of serious bicyclist-pedestrian crash happening in and around the crosswalks of Ladd’s Circle. I tend to disagree with those who contend that is was mostly irate motorists who were irritated at having to slow down behind bicyclists taking the lane who were calling the police and demanding action.

Think about it: Why would a motorist who is in a hurry call to complain about a cyclist blowing a stop sign? If anything, having the bicyclist in front of them blow through the stop sign at cruising speed would tend to keep traffic moving at a faster pace for the in-a-hurry motorist, whereas a cyclist who stopped and put a foot down at every stop sign in a narrow-lane roadway would tend to slow down car traffic even more.)

Burr
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Burr

The cops do this maybe once a year, have fun out there, but do be vigilant. My condolences to the folks who got caught.

😉

jami
Guest

i was annoyed with the complainants at first, but if what the cop says is true, it sucks that some cyclists hit those pedestrians. if cars had hit the same two cyclists in the same area repeatedly and just kept going without an apology, you bet we’d be complaining to the police.

i always slow down enough at intersections not to even scare anyone, let alone hit them. but at least once a week, i see a cyclist making us all look like jerks by blowing a stop sign so fast that a pedestrian steps back on a curb or a car slams on its brakes. it sounds like a few of those full-speeders got tickets. good. but it sucks that a couple nice cyclists who make sure they aren’t scaring or hitting anyone probably got scooped up along with them. that’s the fault of jerks who hit pedestrians and leave them angry enough to call the cops, not the fault of cops or the people who get hit.

Tom
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Tom

Traffic circles/roundabouts should be Yield controlled. Most places in the world recognize this as the norm. Catch the wave…

Martha S.
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Martha S.

I honestly think that getting the idaho style stop sign laws passed here would make it far easier for the police to go after cyclists that behave in a genuinely dangerous manner. Clearly, if anyone has to take evasive action to avoid a collision you didn’t yield the right of way.

Greg
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Greg

This is ridiculous. I can’t believe how many people are standing up for this enforcement action. Stop signs should be treated as yield signs and stop lights as stop signs. That means I can blow through a stop sign at 20 miles per hour as long as it’s safe and there are no peds or cars coming. And you know what? This circle used to be on my route and entering the circle at 20mph while pedaling without even slowing was completely safe because it was incredibly easy to see any and all traffic on half the circle. Cyclists get demonized for the fools who don’t yield to cars at stop signs, and that is the real problem, not the speed at which we enter intersections. The situations that Logan and others use to express their frustration about cyclists who don’t yield are valid, but they have missed the point that, treated as yield signs, there would be no conflict.

This police action is a joke; a complete waste of time. Using the one (questionably) reckless cyclist as an example just shows that the other 45ish probably would’ve yielded at the Ladd stop sign to any oncoming traffic like any sane individual would’ve, but biked through because there was no traffic.

To all of you who use the example of the Corvallis death to justify stupid traffic laws: my grandma is 80 and smokes and she’s perfectly healthy so that means smoking is okay. What the hell are you thinking? For the thousands of times people TREAT STOP SIGNS AS YIELD SIGNS on bikes no one has been killed. When people do not yield, bad things happen, usually to the cyclist who fails to yield. It’s pretty awesome that cyclists have only killed one person because shoes, sidewalks, dishwashers, showers, and anything else you see around you right now has probably killed a bunch of people throughout time.

This discussion has been beaten to death many times on this board and people need to “get off the internet” and start writing letters.

David Dean
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David Dean

Would anyone like to shed some light on Comment #11? If the ticketed cyclists were approaching the intersection safely, why were they not able to stop for the signs after seeing seven cops camped out in the middle of the circle?

Jon B.
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Jon B.

I have no comment on the enforcement action other than to say that it would be nice if these kinds of “hot spots” could be identified and perhaps altered to improve traffic flow and reduce conflicts.

More importantly I just want to say that it is encouraging to read that I am not the only one who is driven crazy every time I see somebody on a bike blatantly blow red lights in high traffic areas.

We are vehicles and we affect those around us.

Jen
Guest
Jen

There seems to be a consensus here that this sting was a clear act of harassment and a differential enforcement of the law (similar sting operations are not enacted against cars).
What troubles me is the lack of cohesion and organization within the cycling community to fight police action such as this. It comes down to money, and it comes down to lobbying power. Why are we as cyclists so divided? Commuter against messenger, recreational rider against professional racer, etc.? If we organized, if we came together as a lobbying power we could take action against such differential and discriminatory treatment and actually have a voice to make change.
Imagine that when something like this happens 30 or 40 of us wrote or called the police commissioner and voiced our anger. We could have as much or more say as the people with money who request such stings.
We all ride bikes. We all care about the rights of cyclists. Why do we waste our energy arguing with each other?
Johnathan, you have created a wonderful forum here. You are an integral part of the bike community. I don’t expect you to take on the role of organizing Portland cyclists, but I would love to see more support for such organization.
All cyclists share common goals and interests. If we organized we could actually effect change.
There could be an email list of those interested in taking action, willing to write senators and representatives (which Johnathan frequently helps us do already) or organize protests. There could be a forum for specifically discussing and supporting legislative change. We could build a coalition of cycling organizations who together would have greater lobbying power and voice than each alone.

Coyote
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Coyote

Many of you labeled this sting as a waste of resources. The opposite is true. One of the primary priniciples of traffic enforcement is to correct behavior. In this case 7 officers (with the aid of this site) have made thousands of cyclists think about their behavoir, and many will take a extra careful look before rolling a stop sign. That is pretty effective enformencemt.

Matt Picio
Guest

“Why are we as cyclists so divided?”

A bicycle is the most individual form of transportation one can take. I think that plays a large factor. Also, a lot of the individual sub-groups in our community don’t like authority, or bureaucracy, and any kind of “collective” measure involves both. The most effective actions are the ones that involve consensus. The surest way to get us all together on an issue is to get us all upset at the same issue, for the same reason. Those issues where we line up on opposite sides aren’t likely to be easily resolved.

“In this case 7 officers … have made thousands of cyclists think about their behavoir, and many will take a extra careful look before rolling a stop sign. That is pretty effective enformencemt. ”

That depends on your point of view. The vast majority of these people will still not stop. Many will probably slow down, but whether that is effective enforcement or not depends on whether you believe they should be obeying the law, or whether you just want them to slow down and be more aware.

In any case, the best way to keep the number of complaints down at Ladd’s (which is supposedly what instigated the sting) is to work with the neighborhood to find out what their concerns are and to encourage cyclists to behave in a way that satisfies the residents. That may or may not involve folowing the law.

If we don’t care about what the locals think, and don’t want to put forth the time and effort, then we shouldn’t be surprised if the locals complain to the city, and we shouldn’t be surprised when the police show up and start ticketing.

steve
Guest
steve

Jen, which is it? Do we have a consensus or are we divided?

Myself, I see no evidence of consensus. In fact I see one person after another saying it was a good idea and recounting anecdotal experiences of reckless cyclists blowing through signs.

And Greg! Once again for the bleacher seats, if you can see so well at 20 mph entering an intersection, you will never receive one of these tickets. Why you ask? Because with your super senses you will see the 8 cops on their hulking motorbikes and you will of course stop and then go on your way.

Anyone oblivious enough to miss the cops, is plenty unaware and should receive a big ol ticket. I think anyone that dim should also have the air let out of their tires and be forced to demonstrate how quick they can fix two flats. But hey, thats just one guys opinion!

Michael
Guest
Michael

Rude, unsafe, selfish, bad manners. Is that the basis for this issue?

We encounter these traits every day. Sometimes they endanger us. More often just irritate the hell out of us.

We are conditioned to call in the law with their big guns to put down a problem better dealt with by education and diplomacy.

Bikes – how about some simple courtesy? At least slow down and look around like you mean it. If there is a pedestrian or car, then stop and give them the right of way to cross.

Residents – how about a smile and “please be careful and watch the stop signs”? How about talk to your neighborhood association? You have a good one, with some real diplomatic skills.

Cops – why do treat a nuisance complaint with a full platoon of shock troops? How about assigning a bicycle cop to spend a few hours endlessly circling, he/she could ride along with ill mannered cyclists a few blocks and talk. Give warnings or tickets only to the most egregious offenders.

To everyone here with your “support our troops” law and order fantasies – Are not there better, more nuanced ways, that might be just as effective without causing so much more grief? Haven’t we had enough of, and learned something from the endless wars that ensue when our government gets ham fisted with its militant solutions to civil problems, as in the middle east, and the drug wars?

Attornatus_Oregonensis
Guest
Attornatus_Oregonensis

“One of the primary priniciples of traffic enforcement is to correct behavior. In this case 7 officers (with the aid of this site) have made thousands of cyclists think about their behavoir, and many will take a extra careful look before rolling a stop sign. That is pretty effective enformencemt.”

Coyote (or anyone else), I will bet you $100 that if you go back to the same location next week or some suitable time after this sting is over, you will see no lasting difference in cyclist behavior.

Now, the gauntlet has been thrown. I’m calling your bluff. Do you want to put your money where your mouth is on the absurd idea that randomly citing a small proportion of people over a very restricted time period will actually change behavior over the long term? Or do you just want to keep making statements that are divorced from reality?

Rider
Guest
Rider

AO. Do you think they should stop giving out speeding tickets? I saw a speeder again yesterday! I bet you $1,000,000 there will be a speeder again today. You want to call the mayor’s office to ask for them to stop giving out speeding tickets? I bet there will be drunk drivers out tonight. The last thing police should do is go to “random” places and hand out tickets to drunk drivers. What an absurd idea. Do you want to put your money where your mouth is on the absurd idea that randomly citing a small proportion of people over a very restricted time period will actually change behavior over the long term?

Attornatus_Oregonensis
Guest
Attornatus_Oregonensis

So, I take it Rider does not want to wager that the Ladd’s sting will change cyclist behavior at that location. Anyone else?

I figure we can agree on a time frame (I’m thinking more like a month later now), a scheme for judging cyclist behavior that has inter-rater reliability, and an independent third party (Jonathan, perhaps?) to hold the money and do the judging.

Anyone?

steve
Guest
steve

AO, again with your inflammatory nonsense. Is this some more of your positive contribution? What a mature and wonderful idea you just had, yep very insightful. Sheesh.

The police are not there to change behaviour. Anyone with a brain should be able to see that. The police are there to provide an illusion of security for their handlers.

Just like the security at airports and customs. Wait in line for an hour coming into the country. Get searched sniffed by dogs and interrogated. My see how safe we all are! Of course you can pilot a semi across our borders any time of day or night, full of lord knows what. Or park a boat off shore, or on and on.

Wealthy people call the cops and out they come. Big shocker there. 911? Hah! All the police do is pander to our insecurities and subdue dissent.

Do you get so worked up about all the other nonsense we pay these clowns for? How about the government? Do you really think our elections are going to change anything?

I bet you $100 that if you leave the country for a week after our next elections and come back the same stuff will still be going on. Your persuasive argument has one me over, I will apply it to lots of stuff now, thanks! Look, your twisted logic just let me negate our entire system of governance. Thanks!

I sound ridiculous, right? So do you.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
Guest
Attornatus_Oregonensis

steve’s out. Anyone else?

Rider
Guest
Rider

So I take it that AO does not want to wager that there will not be drunnk drivers tonight or that there will not be speeders today in the same places where they’ve already given out tickets. Anyone else?

I figure we can agree on a time frame (I’m thinking like a month since they’ve given out that last speeding or drunk druving ticket), a scheme for judging driver behavior that has inter-rater reliability, and an independent thid party (Jonathan, do you still see speeding cars and drunk drivers around?) to holdf the money and do the judging.

Anyone? AO?

April
Guest
April

I have to agree with Jen- these stings are discriminatory. Seriously- how many drivers come to a full and complete stop at EVERY stop sign and EVERY stop light and ALWAYS use ther signals EVERY SINGLE time they drive? None I’ve seen. Cyclists bend the same rules in the same way, but because of some random (and probably helmetless) a-holes, normal commuters are being targeted for violations specifically in bike-heavy areas. I was ticketed last week near OMSI- there was no machinery, trucks, cars, or peds within blocks, and I slowed to about 4 mph. The cop was hiding behind a delivery truck. This type of sting infuriates me- no harm done, no foul. No person was so much as inconvenienced by my actions. If I’d caused a close call or failed to give a ped a right of way- sure, violation. But how many cited cyclists in these 2 areas caused no one harm, fear, inconvience, and didn’t endanger themselves? My guess is most. How many crazy reckless riders are ticketed? Probably few. And where are the cops when a motorist runs full speed thru a stop sign (saw that yesterday) that could have made me a speed bump, as I had the right of way?

The cops are cracking down on anyone on non-motorized 2 wheels to satisfy the vengeful victims of close calls by unscrupulous riders that don’t represent us as a whole. I feel targeted, angry, and fearful that if I do ANYTHING wrong, Officer Friendly is going to pop out from behind a tree and nail me. I want to run some errands today on my bike, but am anxiety ridden about it because I feel we’re all under a microscope. If they want to be that nitpicky, I’ll drive. Then I can roll through a stop sign.

Curt Dewees
Guest
Curt Dewees

I will fully support turning all of the stop signs on Ladd’s Circle into “yield” signs–if a 51% majority of all the resident who live within three blocks of Ladd’s Circle agree to this change and sign a petition to that effect.

You know where they live. Good luck!

steve
Guest
steve

April, I have heard Dabby talk like this before and I am curious. Are you being dramatic or serious?

Because of one ticket you now feel under the microscope and are afraid to ride? Seriously?

Do you honestly think there is some big conspiracy and that bikes are on the cops most wanted list?

I am amazed that they have not broken into your home to silence you.

Jonathan Maus
Guest

steve and A_O,

Please be wary of your tone with each other.

steve,
I just deleted your last comment and your comment #38 is borderline.

thanks for understanding.

steve
Guest
steve

Sure thing Jonathon. You are the bomb, yo!

April
Guest
April

I don’t know who Dabby is, but yes, I’m serious. I feel discriminated against. Big conspiracy? No. Cops making residents feel better by ticketing a targeted group? Yes!

sam
Guest
sam

I feel so dirty for saying this:

I got a ticket a couple of months ago and read about the Ladds action: I now double check every intersection I pass with my bike.

So annoying but I know these cops don t joke with this…

steve
Guest
steve

So breaking the law regularly over many years and finally receiving one ticket is discrimination?

Funny thing is, I ride through stop signs every single day. Sometimes I speed on my bike. I go through red lights after stopping too. I have been doing this every day for 20 years.

Only one ticket and yup it was for speeding. I am quite proud of my speeding ticket, by the way.

I really can not understand your leap to discrimination, fear and self-righteousness. How are we victims here? If we are traffic, we have to deal with traffic cops as well as their laws.

So what is it? Are we delicate children needing to be coddled and protected? Or are we traffic? Are we vehicles with rights and responsibilities?

We obviously can not have it both ways and our desire to try that path is pissing a lot of people off.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
Guest
Attornatus_Oregonensis

FWIW, I am serious about the wager. People can *say* the sting works, but it’s an empirical question. If it does work, then fine — take my money! I can admit when I’m wrong.

But if it doesn’t, then we have to ask: If it is not doing any good and is discouraging people like April from riding, why is this a policy the Mayor wishes to pursue?

April
Guest
April

I don’t think it’s going to change cyclists behavior to ticket a bunch of us at a couple of locations after someone complains. And would it work the other way? If cyclists complained to the PPB that motorists were consistently running signs or lights in a particular area and we’d had close calls or wrecks because of it, would they come out with 7 cops to ticket said motorists?