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  #1  
Old 06-21-2012, 07:03 AM
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DarkStar DarkStar is offline
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Unhappy Stafford Roundabout (Stafford Rd & Borland Rd)

Just have to get a quick rant out this morning...

I wanted to thank the two idiots on bikes this morning traveling at about 30 MPH going north on SW Stafford Road and deciding not to yield to roundabout traffic. I was the guy in the car trying to continue East on Borland that you scared the crap out of.

When I honked my horn to alert you to the dangerous and illegal maneuver you two made, I didn't appreciate the words that you yelled, but was relieved that I wasn't going to create an Oregonian headline this morning.

In the future and as a fellow bicyclist, I would really appreciate it if you two would follow the rules for roundabout traffic, especially taking note of those "Yield" signs. If the worst would have happened, I would have had to live with that for the rest of my life.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:06 AM
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Found a great document by Clackamas County on how to drive, ride, or walk through the roundabout: http://www.co.clackamas.or.us/docs/dtd/roundabout.pdf
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:36 AM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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When you need a full page, both sides of tips to go around a piece of road, its a piece of junk.

Granted, you may have found some idiots on bikes too.

Last edited by Psyfalcon; 06-21-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:04 PM
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sad to say but you sounds like a typical driver... bikes scared you and therefore were in the wrong...

need more info on what everybody was doing...

so far it sounds like everything went fine other than you being scared... sounds like the bikes merged into traffic and everybody was on their merry way...

I'm actually surprised it's a real roundabout... most people have issues with merging closely with moving vehicles and thus they don't end up working as designed because people are afraid...
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:43 PM
lovedoctor lovedoctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy View Post
sad to say but you sounds like a typical driver... bikes scared you and therefore were in the wrong...
Spiffy, you sound like a typical cyclist... bikes can do no wrong. Cyclists do indeed need to yield right of way to traffic of whatever type that is already in the circle, as is clearly pointed out in the document posted by the OP and stated in OR law. As someone who rides the Ladd Circle almost every day, it's very frustrating as I'm just about to turn right off the circle, and my fellow cyclists blast through the stop sign right into my path, forcing me to slam on the brakes to make my turn. In what way does it seem logical that the person withOUT a stop sign yields to the person that does? More info of course would be helpful, but the OP sounds as if he/she understands how traffic circles work.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:06 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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Lets not compare this to ladds. Looking at the diagrams, they are entirely different. Ladds is a bit of a free for all- there are no lanes in the circle and many more entrances and exits. Besides, I'm always suspicious of people "having to slam on their brakes."

So here is the problem with this circle. The bike lane extends into the circle. Is it supposed to only be for cyclists making the next right? Now, due to Oregon's unique bike lane rules, we're used to cars on our left yielding (Such as at Bertha and BH).

The only place a cyclist could cross a car's path is, well, within the circle. The only crossing points are between the crosswalks. The green paint may imply that a cyclist needs to stay in the bike lane rather than move to a different lane well ahead of the circle.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003/p...htm#figure3B27

Standard:
Bicycle lane markings shall not be provided on the circular roadway of a roundabout intersection.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovedoctor View Post
Spiffy, you sound like a typical cyclist... bikes can do no wrong.
hehe, yeah probably... although I thought I took the blame off everybody since it seemed like it went ok... it's the system that's broke, not the people trying to use it...

still wanting to know exactly what happened so we can give opinions with more weight...

as Psyfalcon points out there's no bike lane IN the roundabout, only the far outside lane...

and here's a Google satellite view of the roundabout...

so far as I can tell DarkStar was heading east on Borland and was in the inner lane going around the curve when bikes came Northbound (from DarkStar's right) in the right lane...

the Borland connector gives you the right of way because there's only one lane, whereas the Stafford connector has 2 lanes... so Stafford traffic always has to yield to Borland traffic...

my guess is that the bikes didn't realize it was an off-balance roundabout (ovalabout?), didn't care, or chose to merge instead of yield (like 99% of the people do) and miscalculated everybody's speed to ensure a smooth merge...

...

I think the reason I sound like a typical cyclist with the "bikes scared you and therefore were in the wrong" retort is because DarkStar didn't mention having to take evasive action... it's very typical for vehicles to just "appear from nowhere" and startle others... maybe DarkStar saw it all coming and made appropriate adjustments to avoid them, or maybe he just saw them come and go real quick...

...

on a side note, I hate that intersections (like these) have a yield sign instead of a merge sign... yield rarely works and just enforces the fact that you have to break the law to be able to drive anywhere... (e.g.: the surface street system would instantly gridlock if everybody ensured a 12-car gap before entering the freeway, since that's what's required by law.)
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:03 PM
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Haven_kd7yct Haven_kd7yct is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyfalcon View Post
Lets not compare this to ladds. Looking at the diagrams, they are entirely different. Ladds is a bit of a free for all- there are no lanes in the circle and many more entrances and exits. Besides, I'm always suspicious of people "having to slam on their brakes."

So here is the problem with this circle. The bike lane extends into the circle. Is it supposed to only be for cyclists making the next right? Now, due to Oregon's unique bike lane rules, we're used to cars on our left yielding (Such as at Bertha and BH).

The only place a cyclist could cross a car's path is, well, within the circle. The only crossing points are between the crosswalks. The green paint may imply that a cyclist needs to stay in the bike lane rather than move to a different lane well ahead of the circle.
The bike lanes do NOT extend into the Borland/Stafford circle. Having experienced this roundabout as both a car driver and as a cyclist, I can tell you that for certain. If you are looking at it in Google maps or Earth, you aren't getting what the paint is telling you.

The bike lanes actually end back before the roundabout, where they go dashed. I suppose if a cyclist was taking the first exit, you could hug the curb between the 4" skinny line and the sidewalk and go that way... but you're not in a bike lane marked with an 8" line per Oregon's standards.

The dashed line in the bike lane line indicates that cyclists either need to take the lane, or take the sidewalk. If staying on the roadway, cyclists need to yield to traffic in the circle.

And remember folks: With all true roundabouts, everyone must YIELD IN and SIGNAL OUT.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haven_kd7yct View Post
The bike lanes do NOT extend into the Borland/Stafford circle. Having experienced this roundabout as both a car driver and as a cyclist, I can tell you that for certain. If you are looking at it in Google maps or Earth, you aren't getting what the paint is telling you.
oh my! I didn't even notice in the satellite view... I saw the green on the PDF file and thought that was green bike lane, not green planter, since it was about as wide as the bike lane and looked like the obvious continuation... I thought it was very nice of them to design a green bike lane into the roundabout... guess I gave them too much credit...
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