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  #11  
Old 08-31-2009, 09:27 PM
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wsbob wsbob is offline
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Max...that's got to be you in the yellow sweatshirt (or...maybe not!...see Alan's post just below...we'll see if Max has the decency to clear this up for us.)...but what is that white thing that looks something like a bicycle? I can't claim to have much awareness of all these innovative bike designs....looks like it must be some kind of super time trial rig. I've no doubt you can make that sucker move quicker than roadrunner with coyote in hot pursuit.

We in the Portland Metro area seem to be moving steadily towards the situation where many bikes moving in close proximity to each other on popular bike routes is commonplace. Unlike typical racers in a grand tour/race like the Tour or Giro, the strength, speed, hearing and visual acuity of the typical commuter in our situation is likely to vary widely.

Well, sure, it's certainly possible for some of the people riding in such a situation to have the attitude of 'Hey...I'm moving fast, so get a mirror and get used to it!' I believe that attitude can only gum up the works. The Williams Ave situation is a sign of that.

And then, this year, there's already been a young woman knocked off the Hawthorne bike-ped MUP onto her face into the main travel lane by a swift moving in-a-big hurry rider; nasty injuries...messed up bike...lots of questions raised and considered about how one properly navigates their bike in congested situations. If anyone reading here hasn't heard about that traumatic incident and would like to know more, go here: Hawthorne crash victim shares her side of the story.

Portland Metro area is slowly getting better bike lanes, cycle tracks and what not, but so far, I don't see that it yet has anything adequate to allow people to blow on past other riders in congested situations. For that, a kind of bike freeway is needed. Call-outs of 'on your left' by swiftly moving riders can't make up for the disparity of speed, experience and ability that are going to be found amongst fellow riders on a heavily used, congested commute route.

Last edited by wsbob; 09-01-2009 at 12:18 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:11 PM
vincentpaul vincentpaul is offline
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I see the norms for overtaking riders and norms for speed as two disparate issues.

Safe operation of a bicycle requires that the operator have 360 degree awareness of the operating environment. Thus, a rider should be aware that a cyclist is overtaking them from behind. Raising awareness of the responsibility for situational awareness would be a safety campaign I'd like to see. At the top of my hierarchy of offensive riding behaviors are actions that distract from the cyclist's awareness of the riding environment. Lets see, today I saw: earphones, eating, talking on a phone, and two cyclists chatting obliviously away as they proceeded along the bike lane. In each case they might as well have slugged down enough alcohol to be at .08 BAC for the impact the behavior had on their reactions. (I assume that riding a bike on a public street is as complicated as operating a car.)

On the other hand, cyclists who ride at high speed are engaging in a behavior that threatens my use of the road. A threat which my own actions can do little to protect against. A more meaningful discussion would focus on regulating cyclist behavior in this regard on bike paths(through governmental regulation). As for me? That's someplace I'd rather not go. Better to accept their freedom and operate my own bike with awareness and caution.
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:20 PM
Alan Alan is offline
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Default The Lone Wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsbob View Post
Max...that's got to be you in the yellow sweatshirt...but what is that white thing that looks something like a bicycle?
At the risk of being quick to the obvious, I've seen that photo before... http://soulcyclist.blogspot.com/ or http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/. I'm guessing Max isn't really in NY or LA, nor The Lone Wolf.

BTW Max, while I missed the opportunity for snarky replies , seriously, I applaud your choice to snip back your post. It does not in the least discredit the points you were trying to make, should you decide to make them in more constructive tone.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:41 PM
ephany ephany is offline
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Default Laws, ever heard of 'em?

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Originally Posted by steelsreal View Post
Cyclists are not required by law to give verbal warning when passing. Repeat that to yourself over and over until it settles in.
Agreed. My post was initially about COURTESY & CONSIDERATION, which as you've proven, is dead.

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Originally Posted by steelsreal View Post
Cyclists are also not under any legal burden to operate under your particular, subjective version of 'safe'.
So, since courtesy is dead, let us turn to the law. And since you're too lazy to click links:

814.400 Application of vehicle laws to bicycles.

(1) Every person riding a bicycle upon a public way is subject to the provisions applicable to and has the same rights and duties as the driver of any other vehicle concerning operating on highways, vehicle equipment and abandoned vehicles, except:

(a) Those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.
(b) When otherwise specifically provided under the vehicle code.

(2) Subject to the provisions of subsection (1) of this section:

(a) A bicycle is a vehicle for purposes of the vehicle code; and
(b) When the term “vehicle” is used the term shall be deemed to be applicable to bicycles.

(3) The provisions of the vehicle code relating to the operation of bicycles do not relieve a bicyclist or motorist from the duty to exercise due care. [1983 c.338 §697; 1985 c.16 §335]

ORS 811.410: Unsafe passing on left

(1) A person commits the offense of unsafe passing on the left if the person violates any of the following requirements concerning the overtaking and passing of vehicles:

(a) The driver of a vehicle that is overtaking any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left of the other vehicle at a safe distance [generally agreed to be AT LEAST three feet] and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by steelsreal View Post
By the way, how many of these unsafe riders made contact with you or your bike?
Ah, so anything that doesn't physically push someone over is OK? Maybe you should post your picture too so I can add it to my growing database of people to avoid.

Maybe I should just get that Hummer I've been thinking about.
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2009, 12:16 AM
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wsbob wsbob is offline
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ephany....I'd say that's a fair response to the steely one....and nicely executed. My hat's off to you.
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:37 AM
Martell Martell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxadders View Post
Quote:
However I do often swerve suddenly to avoid potholes, debris, parked cars etc. On bridges and MUPs I also may veer left to avoid pedestrians, dogs, wobbly kids etc.
That sounds like dangerous behavior that threatens the bike community as a whole.
That sounds like dangerous behavior that threatens the bike community as a whole.
So safe behavior that would help the bike community as a whole would include running over potholes, debris, parked cars, pedestrians, dogs and wobbly kids.
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  #17  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:20 AM
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bubbaPDX bubbaPDX is offline
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Default quaint

Courtesy. Consideration. How quaint, how dewy-eyed. Imagine, a shared resource where individuals might have to alter their behavior in deference to others.

I can't shake the mental image of these Amsterdam commuters (link to video below):

http://www.creativeclass.com/creativ...bout-the-bike/

Clearly, the people in the video have sacrificed their individuality and freedom. Automatons. Tools. It's sickening.
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:01 AM
specialed specialed is offline
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Well, thank God you're not driving.

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Originally Posted by steelsreal View Post
Cyclists are not required by law to give verbal warning when passing.

Repeat that to yourself over and over until it settles in.

Cyclists are also not under any legal burden to operate under your particular, subjective version of 'safe'.

By the way, how many of these unsafe riders made contact with you or your bike?
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2009, 02:23 PM
maxadders maxadders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post

BTW Max, while I missed the opportunity for snarky replies , seriously, I applaud your choice to snip back your post. It does not in the least discredit the points you were trying to make, should you decide to make them in more constructive tone.
The original poster didn't come here for a discussion-- they just wanted to state their opinion loudly and repeat as necessary. The first time I threw down, all it got me were baseless accusations about my riding-- and from somoene who's likely never encountered me on the streets of Portland. That's not a dialogue worth engaging in.

Ephany seems to hold resentment towards racers, or anyone who uses our shared bike resources differently from the way he / she sees fit. There's room for everyone in our transportation system, especially in Portland. If anyone knows how to handle themselves in traffic, it's the people who are comfortable operating in it, not the dawdlers who almost crash at the sound of a horn.

I've known timid drivers who refused to drive on interstates, and it occurs to me that bicyclists are like that too-- if you can't deal with fellow cyclists riding marginally faster than yourself, find a more agreeable route. If Williams is our bike interstate, go find a surface street. Just don't complain about the stop signs.
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:26 PM
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wsbob wsbob is offline
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Bike commuting is not bike racing. Recreational day riding isn't bike racing either. Yet as numbers of people riding bikes increases, a small percentage of them that believe their inclination to race must be indulged wherever and whenever they choose to indulge in it is becoming a dangerous problem.

"...if you can't deal with fellow cyclists riding marginally faster than yourself..."max

The problem isn't with people that are marginally faster. I'd say marginally faster is 2-3 mph faster for a close pass. The problem is with people that are much faster; someone traveling 15mph is passed close by someone traveling 20-25 mph. Even when these people call out 'on your left', it can happen very fast. Even with a mirror, a person traveling that much faster may not be seen leading up to the actual pass.

The procedure people use for passing each other on bikes should be recognized as different from that used by people passing each other in motor vehicles. Especially if they're passing close, I think someone on a bike passing someone on a bike should be sure the person they're passing....even if they've called out...has become aware they're about to be passed, before passing proceeds.

If you want to race....go race in a race. You've got a much better chance of getting the respect you seek in that legitimate situation. If you need a 'race-like' training workout that doesn't involve a lot of slow-downs for slower riders, go somewhere out where there aren't a lot of other people.
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