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Striker991
06-21-2007, 07:31 AM
More and more, I see bicyclists put themselves at risk because of their own behaviour. How many of you obey ALL traffic controls? From my personal experience, that would be close to none of you. And now, I read this article at KGW.com:

"Cyclists ticketed for ignoring stop signs in SE"

From that article:

"In two days police handed out at least three-dozen citations to bicyclists who ran stop signs in one area of Southeast Portland."

And an explanation from one of them that is indicative of the overall cycling world's thought patterns:

"She explains she didn’t see any cars and thought it was safe to proceed."

And your fearless leader feels that the laws should be changed so the bicyclists don't have to heed to all the traffic controls:

“we have such an increase in cyclists, we need to look at different solutions with some of these traffic control issues.”

If you want to be treated fairly and want the drivers of automobiles to share the road appropriately, then start behaving properly and follow the rules of the road.

Oh, by the way, number of automobiles pulled over in the same period for traffic violations in the same area? That would be zero.

Bicycle safely, follow the rules of the road, and you will be afforded the respect you all are demanding.

If you don't, you are only putting yourselves at risk.

BTW, I grew up in Eugene, OR. I biked everywhere and am very familiar with what it is like to compete with cars on the road.

toddistic
06-21-2007, 07:58 AM
i obey traffic laws. cyclists who dont obey traffic laws put only themselves at risk. The police sting in SE was aimed specifically at cyclists, thats why there were no tickets to autos.

Striker991
06-21-2007, 08:01 AM
police sting in SE was aimed specifically at cyclists, thats why there were no tickets to autos.

Not true. Call 'em up and ask. Had there been violations by cars, they would have received citations as well. They didn't just ignore cars while they were there.

Thank you for obeying traffic controls. The life you save may be your own...

Haven_kd7yct
06-21-2007, 09:53 AM
I think that your experience with cyclers may depend on where you are driving.

For instance, I'm going to say that 90% of the cyclists I see obey traffic laws, including stop signs and traffic signals. As a driver, I appreciate that.

I'm going to say that the reverse is not true: a much smaller portion of drivers obey traffic laws, including stop signs and traffic signals. I can't tell you how many times I see significant numbers of cars running red lights over here in the southern suburbs, especially around Tigard, Tualatin, and Lake O. Stop signs? Ha! Speed limits? Durham Road is signed at 35mph, and traffic routinely travels 45-plus. Same with Upper Boones and Hall.


More and more, I see car drivers putting everyone's lives at risk because they don't want to wait a few seconds. I challenge all car drivers to get a stopwatch and time how long they are delayed by the following:
Cyclists
Congestion
Waiting at a traffic light or stop sign

Is it worth it? Those few seconds you gain, compared to your overall trip length? I think not.

Kt

Attornatus_Oregonensis
06-21-2007, 10:36 AM
Agreed, Kt. I regularly both ride and drive over the Sellwood Bridge.

Nobody goes the speed limit when they drive. I always have drivers following me too closely to be safe because they refuse to obey the law.

I have the same experience everywhere else: Drivers routinely endanger their own lives and those of everyone around them by speeding, running red lights, etc. Heck, I live in sight of a four-way stop in a school zone, in a residential neighborhood, and on a bike route (the part of the Springwater that goes through Sellwood on Umatilla) and the drivers never actually stop. They just roll through.

When I ride across the Sellwood bridge (which is the only legal way to get across, since riding on the bridge sidewalk is not allowed), I routinely get honked at, crowded, and passed illegally. The illegal passing is particularly dangerous because it requires speeding and often the driver cannot see oncoming traffic until too late. What do they do then? Veer back into me.

This happens to me almost always when I (legally) take a lane: Drivers endanger my life to save 10 seconds (if that) on their drive. This is reckless at best and demonstrates a profound indifference to the health and safety of others. I'm really glad the vulnerable roadway users bill passed. This is criminal behavior.

My experience driving and riding around PDX is that most cyclists obey the laws. And when I see one of them doing something dangerous or illegal, I usually say something. And I try to be nice.

My experience is also that virtually no drivers obey the laws. If you ride on the streets of Portland in the mornings, you will see that they are filled with angry people who simply cannot wait a few seconds to give other road users their rightful use of the road.

If more drivers drove safely and defensively within the law, there would be far fewer close calls with cyclists.

Jonathan Maus
06-21-2007, 10:46 AM
And your fearless leader feels that the laws should be changed so the bicyclists don't have to heed to all the traffic controls:

“we have such an increase in cyclists, we need to look at different solutions with some of these traffic control issues.”

If you want to be treated fairly and want the drivers of automobiles to share the road appropriately, then start behaving properly and follow the rules of the road.

hey Striker,

I'm not anyone's "fearless leader". please don't think of bicycling as some sort of religion or belief that has leaders and followers. It's just a way we get around town. Some choose cars. some choose bikes. I write about bikes. the media calls me. I talk to them.

As for my quote, Why do you assume it to mean that I think bicyclists "don't have to heed to traffic controls".

I would never encourage anyone to break the law.

I simply think that as a city we can find a better solution to this issue than what is currently happening. Part of that solution in my opinion, is working harder to make the transportation network more efficient and safe for the growing number of people who choose bicycles as their mode of transport.

All I want to do is have a constructive discussion about what's going on.

Is all the negative reaction to this enforcement (in the comments to my OMSI post) something we should just ignore? Or is this a problem we, as a city need to address?

I happen to think that when enough reasonable and smart people feel strongly about something, it's worth looking into.

Jakelin
06-22-2007, 09:31 AM
Not true. Call 'em up and ask. Had there been violations by cars, they would have received citations as well. They didn't just ignore cars while they were there.

Thank you for obeying traffic controls. The life you save may be your own...

If you are familiar with the area that this happened in Striker991, you would know that there is virtually no auto traffic there other than trucks that are loading, unloading, and pulling away. As a bicyclist who follows the laws, and stops at all stops signs, believe me when I tell you not to hang your hat on your newly found statistic.

As both a driver and a cyclists, I can tell you that more cyclists follow the laws than drivers. Don't believe me, hit any area freeway and tell me how many people are NOT speeding. Unless there is traffic that prevents it, virtually all of them are. I've watched cars roll through red lights, blow stop signs, roll the wrong way down one lane streets downtown, you name it... all while in a vehicle that can kill when it hits someone.

So as to your first post, what do you propose drivers do to get the respect of road users?

Haven_kd7yct
06-22-2007, 10:55 AM
As a PS to my original post, one thing you see quite commonly here in Oregon amongst the motoring community is a tendency towards more aggressive driving... for example:
Blocking people so they can't merge in front of you or change lanes;
No turn signals
Cutting people off
Tail-gating
And, my all-time favorite: eating lunch while chatting on the cell phone (no hands-free) and looking through a file folder for an important paper while you drive to your next destination.

People always ask cyclists to be more respectful of the other users, most often of cars, but at what point do the rest of the road-users demand that the car drivers show more respect towards them? You're at the helm of a ton-plus of wayward metal, maybe you should be bothered a little to pay more attention to what your primary task is?

I'm just sayin', that's all. As a driver, it would be nice. Same as a cyclist.

bobsyouruncle
06-22-2007, 11:57 AM
Oh, by the way, number of automobiles pulled over in the same period for traffic violations in the same area? That would be zero.


Ah yes, when you can't find statistics to support your biased point of view, make some up. A classic tactic for online arguing.

I stopped and spoke to one of the motorcycle cops on Harrison yesterday. He said that they were in fact enforcing the stop signs on both motorists and cyclists and that "about half" of the tickets given out went to cars.

He was pretty open and forthcoming. He even admitted that "when I was a kid, I broke every law in the books on my bike" but said that Portland as a city was cracking down on that behavior due to the recent rash of cyclist fatalities.

I pointed out that as a taxpayer, I don't feel that bicycle stings are an effective use of the police department's budget and asked who I should contact to make my views known. He suggested the Mayor's office, the police chief, and traffic enforcement. I've already contacted the Mayor's office and gotten no response, but I'll keep trying.

The cop furthermore said that everyone had to stop at stop signs except pedestrians and skateboarders...but I'm wondering if he was clear on the law in that instance. If he was right about that, I guess it's time to start skateboarding to work.

I think traffic stings on Lincoln are a huge waste of city resources. To make my feelings known, I'm going to be bike commuting down Hawthorne for the next week or so - taking a lane as provided for by Oregon law - and I'm inviting other SE cyclists who would otherwise ride the Lincoln Corridor to join me.

bikerinNE
06-24-2007, 04:55 PM
The other day (don't remember where) I was riding down the street, and saw a guy driving a car, reading something he was holding against his steering wheel, all while driving in traffic. I'm not sure, but i believe that driving requires 100 percent of peoples attention. If that guy was coming up on me from the rear, and i was stopped at a stop light, or a stop sign, he could have killed me because he was more focused on what he was reading instead of driving. Driving is far more dangerous then bicycling.

As far as traffic controls are concerned, stop signs are designed for vehicles, as are most traffic control devices. I, as a cyclist, am more aware of my surroundings then someone hidden behind the dashboard of a car. There for its less dangerous for me to run a stop sign, or a red light. I'm am not saying its right, or legal, i'm just saying its more safe, then in a car. When the streets are designed for bicycles, then maybe i will ride the way the man wants me to, I pay taxes for road repairs and the what not, but when they aren't designed for the transportation method i choose, I will ride the safest way i know how. If i get a ticket for blowing a red light, riding the line, taking and entire lane, weaving in and out of traffic, on the sidewalk, i will pay the ticket. Everything i do, and every action i take on my bike when i'm commuting and riding in traffic has a purpose, safety. Roads were designed for cars, as soon as they are designed and built for bicycles, then i will respect the laws of them, which are made and inforced for the automobile.

I cannot say how many times I've ridden through an intersection on a left turn and watched cars blow the newly turned red light, driving inches away from the vehicle in front of them, all because they don't want to wait another 3 minutes. That is unsafe.

I believe that if the daily driver got out of his car and put a bicycle between their legs, and road to work for a week, then got back into his car, that person would be a much more safe driver then they were previous to their bicycle commute week.







More and more, I see bicyclists put themselves at risk because of their own behaviour. How many of you obey ALL traffic controls? From my personal experience, that would be close to none of you. And now, I read this article at KGW.com:

"Cyclists ticketed for ignoring stop signs in SE"

From that article:

"In two days police handed out at least three-dozen citations to bicyclists who ran stop signs in one area of Southeast Portland."

And an explanation from one of them that is indicative of the overall cycling world's thought patterns:

"She explains she didn’t see any cars and thought it was safe to proceed."

And your fearless leader feels that the laws should be changed so the bicyclists don't have to heed to all the traffic controls:

“we have such an increase in cyclists, we need to look at different solutions with some of these traffic control issues.”

If you want to be treated fairly and want the drivers of automobiles to share the road appropriately, then start behaving properly and follow the rules of the road.

Oh, by the way, number of automobiles pulled over in the same period for traffic violations in the same area? That would be zero.

Bicycle safely, follow the rules of the road, and you will be afforded the respect you all are demanding.

If you don't, you are only putting yourselves at risk.

BTW, I grew up in Eugene, OR. I biked everywhere and am very familiar with what it is like to compete with cars on the road.

Striker991
06-26-2007, 08:55 AM
Roads were designed for cars, as soon as they are designed and built for bicycles, then i will respect the laws of them, which are made and inforced for the automobile.

Again, another example of bike think. What you all are forgetting is that the rules of the road are created to help PROTECT YOU. When you violate them on a bicycle, you open yourselves up to serious, irreversible injury. A fender-bender in a car is two broken legs on a bike. If you seriously feel this way, then only ride on bike paths or roads with bike lanes. If you choose to not abide by traffic laws, you could end up just like this person:

"Cyclist hit by MAX rode around crossing gate" (from KGW.com today)

Also, if you choose to ignore the traffic laws and become a bad representative of the biking community, then don't complain when a driver salutes you in an appropriate manner. You are the reason that perfectly law-abiding cyclists are getting a bad rap.

toddistic
06-26-2007, 10:35 AM
Here's a good example of car think.

You are all forgetting the rules of the road. When making a right or left hand turn you MUST use your turn signal. When you violate them in a car, you open yourselves up to seriously irreversibly injuring a cyclist who is trying to go straight. Cyclists use car signals to predict if someone is going to make a right hand turn right in front of them and brake accordingly.

Also, if you choose to ignore the traffic laws and become a bad representative of the car driving community, then don't complain when a cyclist salutes you in an appropriate manner. You are the reason that perfectly law-abiding car drivers are getting a bad rap.

(take your righteous anger somewhere else)

Jakelin
06-26-2007, 04:46 PM
Striker991, why respond only to the one person who admits they don't follow the rules and ignore all the questions and comments presented to you by the rest of us who follow the rules?

Are you just here to troll, or are you wanting a dialog? Why not respond to the rest of the posts here?

Striker991
06-27-2007, 07:31 AM
Here's a good example of car think.



Also, if you choose to ignore the traffic laws and become a bad representative of the car driving community, then don't complain when a cyclist salutes you in an appropriate manner. You are the reason that perfectly law-abiding car drivers are getting a bad rap.

(take your righteous anger somewhere else)

Here's what you're missing: a driver makes a mistake, doesn't pay attention, or chooses to ignore traffic laws and there usually isn't much more to an accident than a dented fender. If a bicyclist makes does the same, the potential for injury is far greater.

If you make choices to refuse to obey traffic controls that are meant to protect you, you are only putting yourself at risk (quite unnecessarily, I might add). Why create additional risk when you are already having to deal with cars that aren't paying attention or disobeying traffic controls?

"You are all forgetting the rules of the road. When making a right or left hand turn you MUST use your turn signal. When you violate them in a car, you open yourselves up to seriously irreversibly injuring a cyclist who is trying to go straight. Cyclists use car signals to predict if someone is going to make a right hand turn right in front of them and brake accordingly."

Wrong. Right turn signals should be used, agreed. However, it is the responsibility of the driver behind to follow at a significant distance to be able to make safe decisions. If you are coming up on a car that is slowing and you choose to pass on the right (which is what you are doing), you have the same responsibility as if you were a car in the lane. You may only pass on the right when it is determined safe to do so.

Striker991
06-27-2007, 07:44 AM
Striker991, why respond only to the one person who admits they don't follow the rules and ignore all the questions and comments presented to you by the rest of us who follow the rules?

Are you just here to troll, or are you wanting a dialog? Why not respond to the rest of the posts here?

Because, they are the type of people that create additional risks for themselves, then want to criticize the car drivers for their own actions.

I don't disagree with the others that are making very valid points.

We all agree that drivers need to share the road more. We all agree that drivers need to pay more attention to cyclists. We all agree that roads need to be controlled in a more efficient manner for the type of traffic that uses them. We all agree that some drivers are disrespectful of bicyclists and this needs to change.

However; what my experience has been lately (gas prices and better weather may contribute to this) is that cyclists around me have been putting themselves at very unnecessary risk because they choose to ignore traffic controls that are meant to protect them. Just because you disagree with the controls and their placement doesn't mean that you should ignore them...this goes for both cars and bikes. BUT, when a bike ignores them, the risk for injury is significantly higher.

Trolling? No. My point for coming here? To add a driver's perspective that has significant experience as a cyclist, which is mainly to help those like Toddistic understand that if they wish to be taken seriously in the process of change, then don't just ignore traffic controls and expect to be understood. The bicycle was my main form of transportation for many, many years.

toddistic
06-27-2007, 02:40 PM
However, it is the responsibility of the driver behind to follow at a significant distance to be able to make safe decisions. If you are coming up on a car that is slowing and you choose to pass on the right (which is what you are doing), you have the same responsibility as if you were a car in the lane. You may only pass on the right when it is determined safe to do so.

Actually, you are wrong.

1. I was following at a safe distance, when he hit the intersection he slamed on his brakes and made a sharp right hand turn with no notice. If there had been a pedestrian in the street he would have hit them. That means he was not in control of his vehicle. Since you weren't even there I have no idea how you can be such an expert on what happened. You assume I was in the wrong because that's your bias.

2. He didn't run into me because I wasn't passing him. Thanks to that experience, when I ride my bike down NW Lovejoy I take the entire lane.

3. I had the right of way.


To add a driver's perspective that has significant experience as a cyclist, which is mainly to help those like Toddistic understand that if they wish to be taken seriously in the process of change, then don't just ignore traffic controls and expect to be understood. The bicycle was my main form of transportation for many, many years.


If you'd like to re-read my previous posts to you I have always been clear that I do follow the rules of the road including stop signs / stop lights and I expect drivers to follow as well. Just because I exercise my rights as a cyclist you think I'm now not being taken seriously.

If all you can do is spew the same, follow the rules of the road, the driver is always right rhetoric then why bother even discussing anything. You don't want to have a discussion, you want to throw accusations at people.

I'm done, good job on alienating yourself from everyone here.

Haven_kd7yct
06-27-2007, 04:22 PM
Striker: it's hypocritical to say that bikes always run traffic controls and cars never do.

I watched a line of 4 (!! that's right 4) cars run a red light turning left from Upper Boones onto Bridgeport. There was no reason or excuse for it (i.e., the ol' "I didn't see it change because the semi in front of me blocked the light and I couldn't see it" excuse), 4 cars in a row ran both the yellow and red lights in succession.

When I went to UPS this afternoon, 75% of the cars I saw weren't using their turn signals, per the law; didn't stop fully at stop signs, per the law; and didn't go the speed limit, per the law.

So.... hm. I guess car drivers shouldn't expect from bike riders what they're not willing to do themselves.

Striker991
06-28-2007, 01:14 PM
3. I had the right of way.
.

How does a following vehicle (whether bike or car) have the right of way?

Jakelin
06-28-2007, 02:24 PM
Because, they are the type of people that create additional risks for themselves, then want to criticize the car drivers for their own actions.

I don't disagree with the others that are making very valid points.

We all agree that drivers need to share the road more. We all agree that drivers need to pay more attention to cyclists. We all agree that roads need to be controlled in a more efficient manner for the type of traffic that uses them. We all agree that some drivers are disrespectful of bicyclists and this needs to change.

However; what my experience has been lately (gas prices and better weather may contribute to this) is that cyclists around me have been putting themselves at very unnecessary risk because they choose to ignore traffic controls that are meant to protect them. Just because you disagree with the controls and their placement doesn't mean that you should ignore them...this goes for both cars and bikes. BUT, when a bike ignores them, the risk for injury is significantly higher.

Trolling? No. My point for coming here? To add a driver's perspective that has significant experience as a cyclist, which is mainly to help those like Toddistic understand that if they wish to be taken seriously in the process of change, then don't just ignore traffic controls and expect to be understood. The bicycle was my main form of transportation for many, many years.


While I'm still not convinced on the trolling, I'll give you points for at least responding to me. Here is where your central arguement has a huge problem:

You assume that if a car breaks the rules of the road that it is bumping into another car and therefore less dangerous than when a bicycle breaks the rules. This is not true. When a driver breaks the rules of the road and hits a bicyclist or a pedestrian, that is a very serious problem that can result in a serious injury or even the death of the innocent party.

I look at it like this: If a bicyclist is traveling in an unsafe manner, he is likely to hurt himself in the long run. When a driver is traveling in an unsafe manner, he is likely to hurt SOMEONE ELSE in the long run. To me this is far more aggregious of a situation than the case of the cyclist. Drivers break the rules all the time, every day, all while in a vehicle that can kill other people. Somehow they overlook this and get upset about a person on a 25 pound bike blowing a stop sign while disregarding their own transgressions. Does this make sense? I find the 2000 pound vehicle that does the same thing to be much more of a concern to me. This is why I asked you (in all seriousness) what you propose drivers do to earn back the respect of cyclists. You didn't want to answer that.

Until this last year, I put close to 20k miles a year on my cars doing my job for the last 10 years. It's funny because I NEVER have had one close call with a cyclist, but have had many with cars, trucks, motorhomes, animals, ect...fortunatley because I drive safely and with a little luck, I was never involved in an accident. I'm curious where you are driving that you seem to have "many, many" close calls with bikes. It might say more about your driving than about cyclists. I'm not saying it is as I am not in your car, but it is something to consider.

It's funny, I am just finishing reading a book authored by a bike messenger and he is talking about why bike messengers don't follow the rules of the road. In it he mentions that in his estimate, 90% of cyclists follow the rules of the road. This is someone who is on the street a whole lot more than you or I. I find that interesting. What would the world be like if 90% of drivers followed the rules of the road? Are you doing anything to try to bring that change about or are you just focused on the few bike riders who won't end up hurting anyone but themselves? It's something to think about.

I believe this boils down to an unfounded prejudice against bicycles by a lot of drivers. In another forum a driver wrote 'this cyclists totally blew a red light...what makes cyclists think they are so much better than everyone else?' I found that to be a funny reaction. Do drivers have the same reaction when they see a car blow a red light? Do they think that the driver thinks they are better than everyone else? No. But that is because they relate to a driver being late, being in a hurry, driving agressively or just flat out driving carelessly because all drivers have done these things. Yet they somehow can't make the intellectual leap to realize that cyclists are just like everyone else. Good ones and bad ones are out there. The amazing thing is that they can demonize the bad cyclist but ignore the bad driver. As I said earlier, the bad driver is a much bigger threat to my personal safety as it is yours.

So Striker991, what do you think needs to be done about these drivers?

toddistic
06-28-2007, 07:21 PM
How does a following vehicle (whether bike or car) have the right of way?

you should try reading my posts, oh wait, im wrong of course, its all so clear now Striker, thanks for clearing that up, man im glad you could shed light into a situation which you werent even at. good job! ,.|..

Striker991
06-29-2007, 12:18 PM
you should try reading my posts, oh wait, im wrong of course, its all so clear now Striker, thanks for clearing that up, man im glad you could shed light into a situation which you werent even at. good job! ,.|..


From your post: "I was following at a safe distance..."

So, again, please explain how a following vehicle has the right of way...

Striker991
06-29-2007, 01:05 PM
While I'm still not convinced on the trolling, I'll give you points for at least responding to me. Here is where your central arguement has a huge problem:

You assume that if a car breaks the rules of the road that it is bumping into another car and therefore less dangerous than when a bicycle breaks the rules. This is not true. When a driver breaks the rules of the road and hits a bicyclist or a pedestrian, that is a very serious problem that can result in a serious injury or even the death of the innocent party.

I look at it like this: If a bicyclist is traveling in an unsafe manner, he is likely to hurt himself in the long run. When a driver is traveling in an unsafe manner, he is likely to hurt SOMEONE ELSE in the long run. To me this is far more aggregious of a situation than the case of the cyclist. Drivers break the rules all the time, every day, all while in a vehicle that can kill other people. Somehow they overlook this and get upset about a person on a 25 pound bike blowing a stop sign while disregarding their own transgressions. Does this make sense? I find the 2000 pound vehicle that does the same thing to be much more of a concern to me. This is why I asked you (in all seriousness) what you propose drivers do to earn back the respect of cyclists. You didn't want to answer that.

Until this last year, I put close to 20k miles a year on my cars doing my job for the last 10 years. It's funny because I NEVER have had one close call with a cyclist, but have had many with cars, trucks, motorhomes, animals, ect...fortunatley because I drive safely and with a little luck, I was never involved in an accident. I'm curious where you are driving that you seem to have "many, many" close calls with bikes. It might say more about your driving than about cyclists. I'm not saying it is as I am not in your car, but it is something to consider.

It's funny, I am just finishing reading a book authored by a bike messenger and he is talking about why bike messengers don't follow the rules of the road. In it he mentions that in his estimate, 90% of cyclists follow the rules of the road. This is someone who is on the street a whole lot more than you or I. I find that interesting. What would the world be like if 90% of drivers followed the rules of the road? Are you doing anything to try to bring that change about or are you just focused on the few bike riders who won't end up hurting anyone but themselves? It's something to think about.

I believe this boils down to an unfounded prejudice against bicycles by a lot of drivers. In another forum a driver wrote 'this cyclists totally blew a red light...what makes cyclists think they are so much better than everyone else?' I found that to be a funny reaction. Do drivers have the same reaction when they see a car blow a red light? Do they think that the driver thinks they are better than everyone else? No. But that is because they relate to a driver being late, being in a hurry, driving agressively or just flat out driving carelessly because all drivers have done these things. Yet they somehow can't make the intellectual leap to realize that cyclists are just like everyone else. Good ones and bad ones are out there. The amazing thing is that they can demonize the bad cyclist but ignore the bad driver. As I said earlier, the bad driver is a much bigger threat to my personal safety as it is yours.

So Striker991, what do you think needs to be done about these drivers?

The same thing that should be done about anyone that breaks the rules of the road.

Look, I agree that BOTH sides ignore traffic controls at times, and NEITHER are a majority.

I have no issue with most cyclists. Again, you guys make invalid assumptions...."It might say more about your driving than about cyclists." It couldn't possibly be the cyclists....right? One, just last week, as I was slowly driving in a construction zone, practically ran up my back bumper, then swore at me for not giving him room on the right as he was trying to get by me, coming up from behind (lanes were narrowed for the construction and there was barely enough room for my truck side to side). I suppose that was all about my driving? But, according to Toddistic, somehow the following vehicle has the right of way.....so it must have been.

Again, my point is this, and it is pointed at only a few of you (and not the ones that don't feel this way and follow the rules of the road): Why would you put yourself at greater risk by ignoring traffic controls that are meant to protect you, when you are already at a higher risk by the pure nature of being a cyclist in auto traffic?

toddistic
06-29-2007, 03:16 PM
here i drew you a nice little picture, since your brain can not comprehend even the smallest facts.

1. WE ARE GOING THE SAME SPEED ABOUT 15-20MPH

2. HE WAS NOT USING HIS TURN SIGNAL DEVICE!

3. HIS TURN WAS QUICK AND ABRUPT AND LAST MINUTE!

4. AS SOON AS HE CLEARED THE CAR LANE HE MOVED ALOT SLOWER.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1074/youareamoronqn6.jpg

enjoy!

Striker991
06-30-2007, 08:25 AM
here i drew you a nice little picture, since your brain can not comprehend even the smallest facts.

1. WE ARE GOING THE SAME SPEED ABOUT 15-20MPH

2. HE WAS NOT USING HIS TURN SIGNAL DEVICE!

3. HIS TURN WAS QUICK AND ABRUPT AND LAST MINUTE!

4. AS SOON AS HE CLEARED THE CAR LANE HE MOVED ALOT SLOWER.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1074/youareamoronqn6.jpg

enjoy!

A. You are still following.

B. You do not have the right of way.

Thanks for drawing a picture so you can understand it better.

toddistic
06-30-2007, 01:16 PM
ok so according to your "great" logic.

this driver can do the following:

1. not use a turn signal

2. cross over other lanes of traffic

3. make a turn at an unsafe speed.

Matt P.
07-09-2007, 01:10 PM
A. You are still following.

B. You do not have the right of way.

Thanks for drawing a picture so you can understand it better.

I'll presume that the vertical line separating the driver and the cyclist (Toddistic) is a bicycle lane marking.

Striker, the driver is in violation of the following:

ORS 811.335 Unlawful or Unsignaled Turn
ORS 811.400 Failure to Signal
ORS 814.050 Failure to Yield to a Bicyclist in a Bicycle Lane

ORS 814.050 is the most salient. When a vehicle is required to yield, that means that the party yielded to has the right-of-way. Toddistic had the right of way because the driver is required to yield to bicycles in a bicycle lane.

Note also that ORS 811.415(2)(c) specifically allows bicycles to pass vehicles on the right, as long as existing conditions are safe to do so - that means that if the road did not have a bike lane, but was wide enough to permit a car and bike to run side-by-side without conflict, that would be permissible under state law.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer - check with certified legal counsel if you want an authoritative interpretation.

toddistic
07-09-2007, 05:30 PM
thanks Matt P.

:)

donnambr
07-10-2007, 09:31 PM
I'll presume that the vertical line separating the driver and the cyclist (Toddistic) is a bicycle lane marking.

Striker, the driver is in violation of the following:

ORS 811.335 Unlawful or Unsignaled Turn
ORS 811.400 Failure to Signal
ORS 814.050 Failure to Yield to a Bicyclist in a Bicycle Lane

ORS 814.050 is the most salient. When a vehicle is required to yield, that means that the party yielded to has the right-of-way. Toddistic had the right of way because the driver is required to yield to bicycles in a bicycle lane.

Note also that ORS 811.415(2)(c) specifically allows bicycles to pass vehicles on the right, as long as existing conditions are safe to do so - that means that if the road did not have a bike lane, but was wide enough to permit a car and bike to run side-by-side without conflict, that would be permissible under state law.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer - check with certified legal counsel if you want an authoritative interpretation.

When I attended the Bicycle Legal Clinic given by Ray Thomas, he interpreted ORS 814.050 in the same way at Matt did above. In fact, one of his examples was nearly identical to Toddistic's experience. As far as I am aware, Mr. Thomas is a practicing attorney in good standing who is considered very knowledgable of Oregon traffic law as it pertains to bicycles.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
07-11-2007, 10:39 AM
As far as I am aware, Mr. Thomas is a practicing attorney in good standing who is considered very knowledgable of Oregon traffic law as it pertains to bicycles.

This is my understanding as well; I'd be very worried about him giving a legal clinic otherwise. If you ever want to check on a lawyer's "good standing," et cetera, visit www.osbar.org.

And that's a great summary by Matt. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I think Toddistic's great explanation had already frightened away the ...well, um, you know.

I like this icon, cause it looks like a guy who has to take a poo. Is it supposed to mean worried?

toddistic
07-11-2007, 01:22 PM
pictures can be scary! :)