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View Full Version : What is a stop?


JayS.
04-11-2007, 03:25 PM
I asked this on the Ladds thread but I guess answering it there would be high jacking the thread so I am asking again over here.

1. Has anyone asked the ppb what in the general traffic officers mind constitutes a stop at a stop sign? 2. What is technicly considered a legal stop? Do you need to put your foot down for three seconds? Briefley set down your foot? Or are they content if you slow significantly to assess the traffic and continue on? I feel like the third option should cover a stop for a bike at a stop sign and that is my general practice.

Donald
04-11-2007, 05:20 PM
(perhaps a bit off-topic, but the whole Ladd sting thing got me thinking)

I've noticed recently that my reaction to stop signs/red lights and my reaction to how bike riders treat them is entirely dependent on my mode-o-travel.

When I'm in my car, I come to a complete stop at the stop line. If it's a stop sign and I can't see, I creep out until I have a good sight line and then I proceed. I strictly obey all lights (to the best of my ability).

When I'm on my bike, I basically use my ears and eyes and if I don't perceive a threat, I usually proceed through signed stops without breaking stride. If I hear/see intersecting traffic, then I'll slow or stop. Lights I usually obey, but there are some I'll bust if I don't think I'll get a trailing blue/red lightshow for my trouble.

Here's the kicker: When I'm on my bike, I really don't care what my fellow bikers do at stops. But when I'm in my car, I get a good sense of indignation working when I see bikes blow stops. Seriously. Borderline road rage sets in when I'm proceeding down Mississippi in my trusty old VW and bikes are busting stop signs and signals left and right.

I guess Repo Man's Miller was right: The more you drive, the less intelligent you are...

BillD
04-11-2007, 05:21 PM
A stop is the cessation of all forward motion. One way to tell if a vehicle has stopped is to watch the wheel... if it's not turning, the vehicle has stopped.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
04-11-2007, 06:34 PM
When I'm on my bike, I basically use my ears and eyes and if I don't perceive a threat, I usually proceed through signed stops without breaking stride. If I hear/see intersecting traffic, then I'll slow or stop. Lights I usually obey, but there are some I'll bust if I don't think I'll get a trailing blue/red lightshow for my trouble.

This seems to pretty clearly be the modal behavior here in town. The Mayor has demonstrated the intention to punish it randomly. But this policy is terrible because it does not actually change cyclist behavior in any meaningful or lasting way and it alienates the cyling community by enhancing their suspicion that they are not really welcome by many on the roads here in PDX. Instead, the Mayor should be focusing on moving the Master Plan forward and updating the infrastructure to accomodate efficient movement of bikes through major commuting routes. It's extremely important that the Mayor articulate a policy that encourages safe cycling in PDX in order to ease the burden that the coming carbon regulation will place on polluting modes of transportation.

JayS.
04-12-2007, 10:03 AM
I still want to know if this has been discussed with a traffic cop. Anyone???

OnTheRoad
04-12-2007, 01:02 PM
Here is what the Oregon Revised Statutes defines as a stop for vehicles:


801.510 “Stop.” “Stop” means the following:
(1) When required, it means the complete cessation from movement.

nm973
04-12-2007, 01:37 PM
This seems to pretty clearly be the modal behavior here in town. The Mayor has demonstrated the intention to punish it randomly. But this policy is terrible because it does not actually change cyclist behavior in any meaningful or lasting way and it alienates the cyling community by enhancing their suspicion that they are not really welcome by many on the roads here in PDX. Instead, the Mayor should be focusing on moving the Master Plan forward and updating the infrastructure to accomodate efficient movement of bikes through major commuting routes. It's extremely important that the Mayor articulate a policy that encourages safe cycling in PDX in order to ease the burden that the coming carbon regulation will place on polluting modes of transportation.

As for the stop question. I believe PoPo answered this question a while ago on this forum and he is a cop. His answer was as above, you have to stop movement, and a track stand is okay.

I have to disagree about us being alienated. I have seen cops ignore cars doing some crazy stuff, but I have seen them pull over cars for not using a turn signal to change lanes. Both cars, nice cars, same gender/race in the cars but one gets pulled over. The same is going to happen on bikes. Some days they may feel like pulling over our butts for doing something ILLEGAL, and some days they don't care or don't notice. Regardless it is ILLEGAL. If I get caught speeding on my bike, I will take the ticket, if I blow a stop sign and I get caught, even though I almost stopped, that is my risk. In no way is it the city alienating us. The cops have a job to do, and I am happy they are there, even if I am getting a ticket. The alienating comment could be said about cars as well, since they have to obey the same laws and cops bust them. If you don't want to stop at a stop sign and not get busted, walk. If you want to ride your bike, obey the law and you should have no troubles, it is pretty simple.

I do agree, it would be great if the city did more to give us some bike freeways (Bikeways?) that would help us get off of busy streets, or using side streets where we have to stop every block or two. However, the city has done a lot and I can only hope that they don't stop moving our city forward and keep encouraging a healthy lifestyle for all citizens, not just cyclists (runners, roller bladers, skate boarders, walkers, heck lets throw in tennis and basketball too). I have been in other cities where the infrastructure is much worse, so I am pretty thankful for what we do have, and it shows that the city actually does care.

boneshaker
04-12-2007, 01:43 PM
You know I'm not even afraid of getting hit by a car... it's getting ticketed that makes me stop. If I'm going it's because there's nobody to run me over, but if a cop sees me I know I'm getting a ticket.

I seem to remember at some point bikes were not required to stop at red's. Didn't the law used to be different for people on bikes?

Mofopotomus
04-16-2007, 08:49 AM
I can't quite remember who but I do remember seeing somebody on here saying they got a ticket for doing a track stand in traffic at a stop light...so that might be a grey area.

What I think would be great is if they made stop signs the same as yeild signs for bikes. In special circumstances such as at intersections that are deemed especially dangerous or just a super blind corner they could include a special "including bikes" sign below the stop sign. I figure that would work out for most people.

Cecil M
04-27-2007, 03:48 PM
I received a ticket for failure to stop at a stop sign in Ladd Circle. The police officer who pulled me over told me that had I slowed down looked both ways and showed intention of stopping I would not have gotten a ticket. He made it clear that you do not have to come to a complete stop and put a foot down. However the cop that gave me a ticket was pretty cool about it and his interpretation of what a stop is, sounded like his opinion, not the official policy of the PPD