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rubbish heap
01-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Is it just me, or is the grand majority of the bikes under the stolen bike listings either un-locked, or locked with a cable lock? In a way it makes me happy that Portland isn't New York City and bike theft isn't so bad that thieves can break through everything except the highest end Kryptonite lock (and even then, they can do it with enough time). Has anyone had a bike stolen that was properly locked with a high quality U-Lock (as in, costed you more than 40 dollars new)? How about those hefty chain locks, anyone lost a whip with that thing securing your ride? It just seems to me that the majority of Portland bike thieves are still in the innocent stage where they're targetting easy bikes that only take 5 seconds and a pair of bolt cutters to get through, as opposed to more tough jobs like breaking through a Kryptonite NYFU lock...

People, if you're using cable locks to lock your bikes, it better be because the bike is not worth much more then the lock, because those things are merely preventing the oppurtunistic thief that sees an unlocked bike and goes for it.

donnambr
01-31-2007, 10:57 PM
Personally, I think every LBS and store that sells cable locks in this area should be required to post a warning about them. I was in a LBS a few months ago and I watched a salesperson tell someone buying a new bike that a cable lock would be just fine. I had to wonder if we were living in the same Portland, OR.

rubbish heap
02-01-2007, 07:30 PM
Yeah, I was told by someone at a shop months ago that my cable lock would be fine because it was thicker than the other models on the market.

I don't really think thickness in cable locks is much of a deterrant though, it's still the same flawed concept that only works in extremely trusting societies such as places in Asia where theft isn't much of a worry.

But man, only one measly reply in a day? I know you guys are concerned about bike theft, c'mon now. Whether you're riding a 5,000 dollar road racing machine or a 150 dollar 70's Schwinn off craigslist, no one likes to return to the bike rack and see nothing but a broken lock.

NEPcyclistic
02-01-2007, 08:02 PM
But man, only one measly reply in a day? I know you guys are concerned about bike theft, c'mon now. Whether you're riding a 5,000 dollar road racing machine or a 150 dollar 70's Schwinn off craigslist, no one likes to return to the bike rack and see nothing but a broken lock.

Well, there are other threads about bicycle locks... Just look around a little.

And don't buy cable locks, get a chain. NYC Fagetaboutit

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A194614011&page=1

steelsreal
02-02-2007, 11:51 AM
Confucious say- "Bolt cutter slice through chain like butter"

Fagetaboutit.. Being there when you get back! If you want it safe, buy a u-lock.


Regular day in the bike shop...

Customer- "Where do you keep the locks?"

Friendly sales staff- "What type of bike do you ride and where do you lock it?"

Customer- "What difference does it make? Oh here they are..."

FSS- "Well if it is an expensive bike and you are locking it somewhere high-risk, you should probably look at a U-lock."

Customer- "Those are heavy!"

Customer- "40 dollars for a lock!!!!"

FSS- "Well I use this 80 dollar New-York lock and a thick cable for my wheels."

Customer- "They have those at freddies for $12.95!!!"

Customer- "I am pretty sure I have a lock at home anyway"

Customer "40 dollars for a lock, everything is soooo expensive here!!!"

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Two weeks later...

Meth head on phone- "Do you guys buy used bikes?"

Meth head #2 on phone- "Yeah I got one of those Trek bikes, whats it worth?

FSS- "Well what did you pay for it?

Meth head #2- "Uhhhh, my friend gave it to me.... I mean I bought it for 20 dollars."

FSS- "Well sounds like it is worth 20 dollars, yeah?"

Meth head #2 "Yeah but do you guys want to buy it? I heard they are worth a lot!"

FSS- "Well we don't buy used bikes because they are usually stolen. I suggest giving it back to the person you stole it from"

Meth head then either argues that they really were given it by their daddies, sisters, baby momma, or they get pissed and hang up.

This happens every single day. I used to try and get them to come in so I can run the serial numbers, but it has never worked. The serial number is pretty much useless. If I tried to keep records of these nuts, I would go nuts as we see several of them a day. Makes me want to scream!

My favorite is the guy with shoes rotting off his feet, who comes in complaining that the gas station air hose won't inflate the shock on his 4000 dollar mountain bike. He of course bought it new, from a "shop" in some other state.

Never mind that he is riding on clipless eggbeaters and tennis shoes, or that the shop did not bother to give him a shock pump, or explain the intricacies of owning a 4 grand full suspension bike....

That one happens about once a month or so.... Meth sure does suck!

Rixtir
02-02-2007, 12:13 PM
Yeah, I was told by someone at a shop months ago that my cable lock would be fine because it was thicker than the other models on the market.

I don't really think thickness in cable locks is much of a deterrant though, it's still the same flawed concept that only works in extremely trusting societies such as places in Asia where theft isn't much of a worry.

But man, only one measly reply in a day? I know you guys are concerned about bike theft, c'mon now. Whether you're riding a 5,000 dollar road racing machine or a 150 dollar 70's Schwinn off craigslist, no one likes to return to the bike rack and see nothing but a broken lock.Nationwide, the most common type of bike theft is the bike that was left unlocked for "just a minute." The second most common is the cable lock that was cut. In Portland, the stolen bike listings all seem to have one element in common: the bike was locked with a cable lock, and a thief with cable cutters came along and took it. They can cut cables really, really fast. There's a thread on this forum about a guy watching a thief walk up to his bike with a pair of bolt cutters.

Anybody who doesn't buy the best u-lock or best chain and lock combo available-- most likely New York Fahgeddaboudit, maybe OnGuard as well-- might as well just put a free bike sign up every time they leave their bike. No matter how expensive the lock is, the bike is (usually) more expensive.

rubbish heap
02-02-2007, 02:58 PM
Well, there are other threads about bicycle locks... Just look around a little.

And don't buy cable locks, get a chain. NYC Fagetaboutit

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A194614011&page=1

Sure. Though I did watch a video on youtube of some Brits breaking 75 pound motorcycle chain locks with some heavy duty bolt cutters in about 13 seconds, and I'm not too keen on riding with the chain as my belt, so heavy duty U Locks like the NYFU are in my opinion the best.

Right now I'm rocking a Mini-Evo but my current bike isn't overly expensive.

steelsreal
02-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Yeah...

Fagetaboutit, being there when you come back!

Fagetaboutit, actually working!

Fagetaboutit, preventing theft!

Fagetaboutit, being more than a not-so-clever name!

Fagetaboutit, protecting more than your huffy!

Buy a u-lock, and use it everywhere you go. Use a cable or chain for your wheels only.

Or, you can just... Fagetaboutit! You want to buy a new bike anyway, right?

Rixtir
02-02-2007, 04:17 PM
The New York Fahgettaboudit (http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2789&atf=products_item&pgrp=20) IS a u-lock.

steelsreal
02-02-2007, 05:07 PM
Well, since you went to the trouble to look at their site, I am assuming you know that it is also a chain?

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=3037&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

The previous poster NEPcyclistic was recommending the fahgedaboutit chain.... You know, context and all. Sheesh.

I had only seen the yellow U-lock called the New York Kryptolock. I see they also have a u-lock with the same name. Congratulations.

My point was, chains and cables are easy to cut. Meaning they suck! If anyone doubts this, please sign a waiver refusing to prosecute me and let me know where your bike is locked. I will videotape myself stealing it in less than a minute, then auction your bike with the money going to the BTA.

Any takers?

Rixtir
02-02-2007, 05:21 PM
Well, since you went to the trouble to look at their site, I am assuming you know that it is also a chain?

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=3037&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

The previous poster NEPcyclistic was recommending the fahgedaboutit chain.... You know, context and all. Sheesh.

I had only seen the yellow U-lock called the New York Kryptolock. I see they also have a u-lock with the same name. Congratulations.Yes, I know they have a chain. The New York u-lock is the full size lock, the New York Fahgeddaboudit is the mini-version of that lock. And there's also the Fahgeddaboudit chain.

My point was, chains and cables are easy to cut. Meaning they suck!I agree completely.

rubbish heap
02-02-2007, 10:24 PM
I can see why chains are very prevalently used by messengers for their practicality (you can tie it around your waste to save much needed space in the bag, you can lock all wheels w/ frame) but for the average person I think U's are def better. So yeah, has anyone had a bike stolen with a U lock that costed you more than 40 bucks?

I'm definitely gonna have to invest in that NYFU mini U lock when I get my new bike, anyone know where it's cheapest? Hollywood Cycling maybe?

donnambr
02-06-2007, 11:06 AM
I've been thinking about this for a while. What I would really like to see is stickers printed about ineffective locks that could be stuck on bike racks about town. Barring that, how about something along the lines of rubbish heap's Craigslist post that we could carry around and attach to bikes that we see have bad locks? Is this something of interest to any of you? BTW, I may also be able to help if some of you can't swing printing these out on your own.

Rixtir
02-06-2007, 11:24 AM
Donna, I think a permanent, weatherproof sticker for bike racks is a great idea.

In addition to choosing proper locks, people also need to know how to use them. I've seen more than one u-lock securing the (easily removed) front wheel only. Here's a link to proper locking technique:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

donnambr
02-06-2007, 02:10 PM
Very true, but if a sticker were to be made, say 2"X3" or so, what would be the best thing to print on them, given the space constraints?


Donna, I think a permanent, weatherproof sticker for bike racks is a great idea.

In addition to choosing proper locks, people also need to know how to use them. I've seen more than one u-lock securing the (easily removed) front wheel only. Here's a link to proper locking technique:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

Rixtir
02-06-2007, 02:21 PM
Very true, but if a sticker were to be made, say 2"X3" or so, what would be the best thing to print on them, given the space constraints?A simple list of 3-5 things that make a bike safer.

BillD
02-06-2007, 05:19 PM
Very true, but if a sticker were to be made, say 2"X3" or so, what would be the best thing to print on them, given the space constraints?


Maybe several different messages, given the small space available on a 2"x3" sticker. I'm not sure of the veracity of the statement, but how about something like this?

http://www.pbase.com/billd9/image/74068308.jpg

rubbish heap
02-06-2007, 05:22 PM
Maybe several different messages, given the small space available on a 2"x3" sticker. I'm not sure of the veracity of the statement, but how about something like this?

http://www.pbase.com/billd9/image/74068308.jpg

Sure, sounds good but maybe as a background have a picture of a cable lock so the total newbie actually knows what you're talking about.

My only fear is that if everyone stepped up to U Locks, thieves would step up to more ballsy techniques / tools to break locks. Than again, cheap, thin U Locks (especially the really big ones) are not the best locks either but are better then cables, you just need to gauge the ratio of your bike's value vs. the cost of the lock...

NEPcyclistic
02-06-2007, 06:39 PM
Maybe several different messages, given the small space available on a 2"x3" sticker. I'm not sure of the veracity of the statement, but how about something like this?

http://www.pbase.com/billd9/image/74068308.jpg


Is that picture asking me a question, or is it a statement.

superstator
02-15-2007, 04:08 PM
Portland isn't New York City and bike theft isn't so bad that thieves can break through everything except the highest end Kryptonite lock

I had my cross bike stolen from a locked Yakima fork-mount bike tray on my car. Given the damage they (presumably) did getting it out of the forkmount, it's entirely possible they stole it just for the scrap steel. :( Not to disagree with the cable-locks-suck discussion, but I will never ever leave a bike I can't stand to lose out of my sight in this city again, no matter what I've locked it with.

donnambr
02-15-2007, 08:42 PM
I had my cross bike stolen from a locked Yakima fork-mount bike tray on my car. Given the damage they (presumably) did getting it out of the forkmount, it's entirely possible they stole it just for the scrap steel. :( Not to disagree with the cable-locks-suck discussion, but I will never ever leave a bike I can't stand to lose out of my sight in this city again, no matter what I've locked it with.
Oh, superstator, that's really awful. I can totally see how you'd want your bike close to you after that. The thing with these stickers is that they'd actually be countering infomation some bike shops are telling inexperienced people about locks.

I was thinking about approaching the manager of the New Seasons near where I live. Perhaps they would be willing to put up a sign as a public service. They don't sell locks, after all. Stores like that might be good places to get the message across.

Mythbuster
08-07-2007, 10:59 AM
Hi though you might find this interesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ip5QoMFyi0

This was a trailor for the documentary that went out a couple of weeks ago!

The full documentary can be found at www.itvlocal.com/london/documentaries

The bolt croppers were the exact same make and model that Sold Secure use in giving their 5 min attack testing. The Kryptonite faghgettoudit lasted just 11 seconds rather than the 5 mins claimed by Sold Secure and Kryptonite!

With regards to cable locks, we breached the Abus armoured Steel o Flex in around 20 seconds with manual cable cutters. U locks, we later tested the Kryptonite 3000 16mm with a miniature bottle jack and broke it in just over 50 seconds.

Cable locks are a waste of time and if a U lock has enough room for a tennis ball inside the shackle then the miniature bottle jack will break it apart in seconds. Sold Secure, Thatcham and Art will not test cable locks with manual cable cutters. They will also not use miniature bottle jacks that can be bought on ebay for around 50$ when testing U locks, reason is simple they will fail in seconds!

We are currently having Sold Secure investigated by Trading Standards here in the UK, for knowingly passing products that they know will not last any where near the claimed 5 min attack times. This is obviously a criminal offence, that will send shockwaves throughout the industry as products that fail the 5 min testing will have to be withdrawn from sale.

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 11:23 AM
Hi though you might find this interesting!...We are currently having Sold Secure investigated by Trading Standards here in the UK, for knowingly passing products that they know will not last any where near the claimed 5 min attack times. This is obviously a criminal offence, that will send shockwaves throughout the industry as products that fail the 5 min testing will have to be withdrawn from sale.
So Almax are spreading their disinformation campaign here too. Congratulations Jonathan, your site got noticed by some tools in the UK.

donnambr
08-07-2007, 11:55 AM
Hi though you might find this interesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ip5QoMFyi0

This was a trailor for the documentary that went out a couple of weeks ago!

The full documentary can be found at www.itvlocal.com/london/documentaries

The bolt croppers were the exact same make and model that Sold Secure use in giving their 5 min attack testing. The Kryptonite faghgettoudit lasted just 11 seconds rather than the 5 mins claimed by Sold Secure and Kryptonite!...

This person has been banned from at least one bicycling forum for his shilling.

http://www.industryoutsider.com/?p=142

Mythbuster
08-07-2007, 12:42 PM
Yes the forum was bikeforums.net who unlike any other forum decided without any foundation that it was a faked documentary! It's a national tv station that purchased the approved products (not us) and invited us to use the same bolt croppers Sold Secure use. Sold Secure claim 5 mins yet it took us only 22 seconds to crop the 3 Gold Standard chains on test, whilst locked tight to the cycles.

Notice how in the trailor Sold Secure attacked the cable locks, not with manual cable cutters but instead used a hammer and chisel! They also refused to attack any approved locks in front of the camera.

Now this does not effect only Kryptonite, trading standards are now aware of 22 Sold Secure Gold chains of which 19 can be bolt cropped in seconds. This is not about marketing, but trying to force change that can only benefit the public in the long run. Testing bodies that pass products have a legal obligation to ensure they do what they say on the tin.

I cannot see what difference who crops the chains makes, after all the chains and U locks cared not a jot. ITV contacted us because we went public about this over 18 months ago and asked us to use the same bolt croppers Sold Secure use in their testing. The issue is not about us, but the testing bodies who are passing this stuff with 5 min Gold approval. We will not be prosecuted by any manufacturer because we cannot be prosecuted for telling the truth.

My advice on cable locks having tested the best with £27 manual cable cutters is stay well clear. Sold Secure again rated one of the armoured cable locks for Gold 5 mins attack time yet we cut it in 20 seconds.

The full documentary will be posted on youtube shortly so you can see just what the testing bodies are claiming is total and utter tripe.

As for bikeforums.net, why delete and ban a link to an ITV documentary that shows clearly the public are being mislead? Suggesting that ITV are in our back pocket, come on ITV are a multi billion pound TV station not some obscure cable channel. If any facts were incorrect, then why did not one manufacturer or testing body prosecute or complain to the ITC?

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 01:12 PM
You guys really are as dumb as we all suspected. You continually shot your foot off in bikeforums, and no matter how many times you fired, you always reloaded for another go at your foot. You're obviously lame by now, so why keep shooting yourself in the foot?

Mythbuster
08-07-2007, 01:27 PM
We have not shot ourselves in the foot, I would say far from it.

As Adrian Flux (Insurance Company in the UK) Superbike (UK Magazine) ITV (National UK television company)Trading Standards (UK Gov body) Have all agreed with the findings.

We are NOT denegrating manufacturers here, the public have a right to know, that when they pay for a security product, it does the job. It has no other function, than to keep your bike safe.

Please do not let this degrade into a slanging match. we have not tried to push any products, just to inform. Sold Secure said that they do not test as rigourously as a thief would, they test to a typical level that they see works. This was a quote from the CEO at the time.

It is not right that you should pay for a product, which passes Sold Secure testing and can then be breached in seconds, with the exact same tool that they use.

The internet forums are there for everyone, and if you don't like the message, then all well and good. Everyone can have their say, and exchange ideas, it is not the place to just rant at someone, just because your views are different. As this benefits no one.

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 01:43 PM
We have not shot ourselves in the foot, I would say far from it.That's not what the bikeforums members would say. You got chased "out of town" by the members themselves there, and now you're here, slinging the same crock.

wsbob
08-07-2007, 02:03 PM
I went over to the link to industryoutsider that donnambr provided. One of the comments suggested pooling some money together, buying the locks and the bolt croppers (bolt cutters to this yank) and seeing for themselves. Is anybody doing that? This wouldn't seem to be that expensive a thing for a legitimate non-profit consumer protection organization to do.

I haven't actually seen the vids mentioned because I don't have cable. I clicked on the itvlocal link, but the homepage was so annoying, I didn't even feel like waiting long enough for it to load up completely.

Just to simplify things, Mythbuster, why don't you identify yourself ? If you're not working for this company Almax, it sounds like you're associated with some group that was invited as you say, by itvlocal, to take a crack at breaking locks and chains tested by the British test organization Sold Secure.

If you are working for and shilling for products a company you work for makes, just stop wasting everybody's time. Identify who you are, do the tests and put the results in black and white instead of citing some questionable videos, so people can have a better chance of determining how the products hold up to the claims.

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 02:25 PM
The problem with the "expose" is this:

SoldSecure tests locks and chains using tools bike thieves "typically" use. As Almax has proven, any lock or chain can be broken with the right tool. What Almax hasn't proven is that the locks and chains can be broken any faster than SoldSecure has done, using the same tools that bike thieves (and SoldSecure) "typically" use. Instead, what Almax has done is broken locks and chains by using tools far in excess of what bike thieves typically use.

For example, where bike thieves will typically use small cable cutters or bolt cutters that can be easily concealed in a backpack, Almax uses 4 foot bolt cutters. How many meth heads in Portland are walking around town with 4 foot bolt cutters? Zero. Almax also makes much ado about breaking u-locks with bottle jacks, but never mentions that they only break u-locks that are improperly locked-- a properly locked u-lock can NOT be broken with a bottle jack.

Furthermore, there was some considerable doubt expressed on bikeforums that Almax was even testing the products-- Kryptonite chains, for example-- that they claimed to be testing. Finally, Almax just happens to manufacture heavy duty chains for motorcycles-- something they always forget to mention when they post these "exposes"-- but they do NOT manufacture or sell locks.

As I said, they went to considerable length to shoot themselves in the foot on bikeforums, and got "run out of town" by the bikeforums members themselves, under a cloud of derisive laughter.

Then they threatened to sue.

Their business plan apparently consists of:

1) Shoot self in foot whenever possible.
2) When in doubt, see 1.

Oldguyonabike
08-07-2007, 02:45 PM
Though this is all interesting and, yes, I use a U-lok, I have a question about the original post - "Stolen Bike listing" - that drew me in.
I just bought a new bike and before it gets stolen and I have to wander through all the stolen bike forums and listings I am wondering if there is an unstolen bike registry where I can load serial #, contact info for future use by others who may find my future stolen bike?
(I hope this is overly negatively phrased and I will never actually need to use either site)

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 03:03 PM
Oldguy, there are national bike registries that will register your bike for a fee. The advantage to a National Registry is that they coordinate with police departments nationwide, whereas a state registration system will typically only be checked by police within that state. I'm not sure if Oregon has a state or local bike registry program; somebody else here will probably know.

The first thing you should do is record your serial number now, while your bike is in your possession. A LOT of people don't do that, and then, when their bike is stolen and they have to make a report, they have no identifying number. This means that nobody can identify the bike as stolen, because there is no serial number to attach to a stolen bike report, and it also means the owner may never be able to prove that the bike belongs to him/her, if it's recovered by the police-- they do require you to be able to prove it's your bike before they will release it to you.

So first step, record your serial number. Second step, register it with your homeowners or renters insurance company, and with a local and/or national registry. Make sure that you and your insurance company are on the same page as regards the value of your bike. Be sure to take photos of it now, and whenever you make changes to the appearance of the bike. Keep your photos and serial number in a secure location where you can access them if you have to file a police report and/or make an insurance claim.

Third step, ALWAYS use your u-lock when you're not on your bike, and ALWAYS use proper locking technique:

Sheldon Brown's Lock Strategy (http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html)

mechBgon's Bicycle Locking Ideas (http://www.mechbgon.com/lock/index.html)

Mythbuster
08-07-2007, 05:37 PM
The problem with the "expose" is this:

SoldSecure tests locks and chains using tools bike thieves "typically" use. As Almax has proven, any lock or chain can be broken with the right tool. What Almax hasn't proven is that the locks and chains can be broken any faster than SoldSecure has done, using the same tools that bike thieves (and SoldSecure) "typically" use. Instead, what Almax has done is broken locks and chains by using tools far in excess of what bike thieves typically use.

For example, where bike thieves will typically use small cable cutters or bolt cutters that can be easily concealed in a backpack, Almax uses 4 foot bolt cutters. How many meth heads in Portland are walking around town with 4 foot bolt cutters? Zero. Almax also makes much ado about breaking u-locks with bottle jacks, but never mentions that they only break u-locks that are improperly locked-- a properly locked u-lock can NOT be broken with a bottle jack.

Furthermore, there was some considerable doubt expressed on bikeforums that Almax was even testing the products-- Kryptonite chains, for example-- that they claimed to be testing. Finally, Almax just happens to manufacture heavy duty chains for motorcycles-- something they always forget to mention when they post these "exposes"-- but they do NOT manufacture or sell locks.

As I said, they went to considerable length to shoot themselves in the foot on bikeforums, and got "run out of town" by the bikeforums members themselves, under a cloud of derisive laughter.

Then they threatened to sue.

Their business plan apparently consists of:

1) Shoot self in foot whenever possible.
2) When in doubt, see 1.


I agree, that for the most part sold secure test using tools typically used. That's why under advise from the police, Sold Secure test all motorcycle gold products for 5 mins with Irwin Record 42" bolt croppers!

That's why ITV proved that Sold Secure are misleading the public by showing the chains being bolt cropped with the EXACT SAME TOOL Sold Secure use, not in 5 mins but 3 seconds, 8 seconds and 11 seconds. All three chains are approved for Motorcycles.

If the thieves use hammers and chisels as Sold Secure claim, when attacking cable locks, oh and in their words "a piece of wiggly wire." Then, why did the 3 thieves use cable cutters on the ITV documentary. When they were were caught on camera stealing cycles?

Why do Sold Secure, not attack cable locks with cable cutters? For bicycle GOLD
Why Sold Secure, not use the Irwin Record 42" bolt croppers properly? for Motorcycle GOLD

It seemed bikeforums.net were more concerned about who is bolt cropping the U locks and chains, than the fact they are being cut in seconds. Which is contrary to Sold Secure's claims of 5 mins.

The Independent tv station invited us to bolt crop the chains and we had no access to the products, they purchased them all. Including the Kryptonite chain!

Certain members of bikeforums.net launched into an attack. We were accused of faking the footage, of being liars frauds and slimeballs. Of course we threatened legal action, since none of it, was or is, true.

Our wall of shame has been on our website for approx 3 years and we have never been sued.

You are correct, we at Almax manufacture a Security Chain, which was designed for high security applications, ie Motorcycles. We however, have an overall interest in security and therefore do not like to see, anyone, be it motorcyclists or cyclists paying for products which should not carry any accreditation. For this we make no apologises, goods should be fit for the purpose for which they are sold.

We have not tried to sell products to anyone on this forum,or on other cycle forums. We only posted footage, which was made by an independant UK television station and which may have been of interest to you. Take a look at www.captaincropper.blogspot.com if you are interested in testing etc.

We will not post again unless invited to do so. As it is not our intention to sell to, or upset anyone.

Rixtir
08-07-2007, 05:53 PM
I agree, that for the most part sold secure test using tools typically used. That's why under advise from the police, Sold Secure test all motorcycle gold products for 5 mins with Irwin Record 42" bolt croppers!

That's why ITV proved that Sold Secure are misleading the public by showing the chains being bolt cropped with the EXACT SAME TOOL Sold Secure use, not in 5 mins but 3 seconds, 8 seconds and 11 seconds. All three chains are approved for Motorcycles.Keep firing away at your foot then.

This is a BICYCLE website. Members here are concerned about BICYCLE theft by BICYCLE thieves. Hopefully, that will clear up some of your confusion. Now, on to those BICYCLE thieves. Once again, they use cable cutters and/or bolt cutters that can fit within a backpack. That automatically excludes your 42" bolt cutters from the list of tools BICYCLE thieves typically use. You are mixing apples and oranges when you come here and talk about 42" bolt cutters cutting motorcycle chains.

If the thieves use hammers and chisels as Sold Secure claim, when attacking cable locks, oh and in their words "a piece of wiggly wire." Then, why did the 3 thieves use cable cutters on the ITV documentary. When they were were caught on camera stealing cycles?

Why do Sold Secure, not attack cable locks with cable cutters? For bicycle GOLD
Why Sold Secure, not use the Irwin Record 42" bolt croppers properly? for Motorcycle GOLD

It seemed bikeforums.net were more concerned about who is bolt cropping the U locks and chains, than the fact they are being cut in seconds. Which is contrary to Sold Secure's claims of 5 mins.Bikeforum members are concerned about BICYCLE theft by BICYCLE thieves. Whether motorcycle thieves can cut motorcycle chains with tools that bicycle thieves don't use is of no concern to bikeforums members. Your silly attempts to create a "controversy" amounted to nothing because in the real world, BICYCLE thieves don't use 42" bolt cutters.

The Independent tv station invited us to bolt crop the chains and we had no access to the products, they purchased them all. Including the Kryptonite chain!See above.

the Wumpus
08-07-2007, 05:59 PM
We have not shot ourselves in the foot, I would say far from it.

No, you shot us in the foot. You don't live here, and you're advertising the best strategies the local crankheads can use to steal our bikes, and nothing at all about how to not get our bikes stolen. None of this is useful for anyone who doesn't steal bikes. Please, stop helping. Don't feed the bike thieves.

wyeast
08-07-2007, 06:44 PM
Auntie Em? Toto? What forum did I land in? :confused: :D

wsbob
08-07-2007, 08:43 PM
Mythbuster, it's really hard to make out exactly what you're saying. Maybe it's your less than perfect grammar. I don't know exactly what thieves use to cut cable locks, but it seems to happen a lot here in Portland. If they needed them, I wouldn't put it past a thief to use 42" bolt cutters to cut such locks if circumstances allowed. I'd guess they use something much smaller....about 20", something that would fit nicely inside a sleeve.

I didn't exactly know what you were talking about when you said "bottle jacks", but after a search, I realized I was familiar with them. What I didn't realize, is that you could get a 5 ton unit that fits in the palm of your hand. Impressive, but it's not so clear how that could be used to bust a U-lock.

A search brought up at least a couple different sites for Almax. On one of them, a site seemingly geared more for motorcyles, they sell locks for chains...they're called CIS...the brand, I suppose. The other site I checked out seemed to be more for bikes. It had the banner for "the wall of shame" and a separate frame with a slider for testimonials. Sure, there was some strong hype on this page, but nothing I would think, that would be much different than what you'd commonly find on a cheap, crappy American infomercial.

I haven't had to lock and leave a bike to date, so I haven't had a need to research very well what available lock systems are able to resist efforts to break them. When I do need to, I probably wouldn't pay a lot of attention to the hyper-excited, paranoia inspiring claims, unsupported by carefully conducted tests that Mythbuster and, as he admits, his employer Almax, make. I suppose though, that there are a lot of people that would be influenced by that strategy.

donnambr
08-07-2007, 09:37 PM
Auntie Em? Toto? What forum did I land in? :confused: :D
If you're the same wyeast as on the other forum, I feel your pain.

As a counterpoint, how about this (http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.com/2007/07/kryptonite-addresses-customer-concerns.html)?

wyeast
08-08-2007, 05:51 AM
If you're the same wyeast as on the other forum, I feel your pain.

As a counterpoint, how about this (http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.com/2007/07/kryptonite-addresses-customer-concerns.html)?

Yeah, that's me. ;) I seriously read this thread, thought I was over there... then read that thread... thought I was over here... then I had to lie down a minute because I was all verklempt about it. :p

I'm still wondering if there's anything to that Onguard/Sold Secure thing... and when is Kryptonite gonna get around to making an Evo4 Mini? :confused:

Oldguyonabike
08-08-2007, 09:08 AM
Thanks Rixtir
A little research shows BTA supports the National Bike Registry.
http://www.nationalbikeregistry.com/
$10/bike for 10 years. Worth the investment in my mind. You get a tamper resistant NBR label with a notification number if it ever gets found - or attempted to sell.