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vseven
01-22-2007, 05:14 PM
This is probably not a new topic but I seek wisdom and advice. These cold dark & wet months it seems vegan/veggie fare is cheap easy and so nourishing, compatible with off season training. I dig the beans, winter veggies, dark greens and brown rice etc. But I am hosed when the serious training months begin. Long mileage training doesn't fit with the protein choices of the winter months. I am a CO 4 timer and the veggie meals were great last year but still hard to achieve at home. Can we truly retain a veggie or vegan lifestyle and meet adequate protein requirements during a training season ??? I sadly admit that last summer I reluctantly added turkey sandwiches to my training regime and felt I lost fat while gaining muscle and amazingly avoided injury in a 1200 mile month pre cycle Oregon. It may have been Karma not turkey, but now I have used all that up.........

steelsreal
01-22-2007, 05:54 PM
Do you have an allergy to soy? An estrogen/testosterone imbalance? I know some people stay away from soy as it is effectively similar to estrogen especially if it is the main protein source. (this has nothing to do with other threads!)

If you answered no to the soy questions, well then that may be your answer! Tofu, and tempeh have huge amounts of easily digestable protein. Wheat gluten or seitan are also great choices. Quinoa is a grain that holds within it a complete protein. It is also damn tasty. It was a staple aboard most sailing vessels for centuries.

You also state vegetarian, if you are consuming dairy it is chock full of protein. As are eggs.

There are soy and non-soy based protein powders available as well.

I have been vege for 15 years and vegan foir 10. Ridden my bike from Canada to Mexico several times with no trouble. Doctors tell me all is well and my body feels great.

Protein is very, very easy to come by without meat consumption.

vseven
01-22-2007, 06:08 PM
Yes I eat alot of soy though I have women friends who lecture me that it isn't wise, I have other thoughts... (I'd love another thread on the abundance today of very processed soy products, are we over processing under the guise of health food ?) Sorry, I was not clear on my reference to the Cycle Oregon veggie fare last year, the catering company rocked with soy alternatives like tofu and seitan. Still....summer and spring I suffer and live on cereal and salad along with the ubiquitous cliff bars, GU and marshmallows melted with fig newtons for power miles. I will eat eggs under strict rules re: treatment of the bearer but it's a compromise. Dairy is hard but not yogurt. Cheese only without rennet....in strict moderation. What about daily meals ? How do you eat and get quality calories ? Don't mean to be indiscrete but some things at high mileage don't fare well in the lower gut, if you know what I mean. Can we start a receipe thread ?

steelsreal
01-22-2007, 06:18 PM
Now I see what you were getting at! I shoot for muscle building in the winter months, gearing into loads of cardio and high aerobic in the summer. Obviously working on a bit of both all the time.

I agree that processed soy is not so swell. I know people who live on vegie nuggets and gardenburgers... YUCK!

I know people who live communally who comment on how the abundance of soy affects the group dynamic. I have heard urban myths about guys growin boobs and the like. I feel soy is fine in moderation, unless the body has some sort of an imbalance. There is certainly no shortage of hormones in most peoples meat, so I think that argument is a tad silly.

My diet in the summer is less protein more complex carbs. My summer protein shifts more heavily to nuts and nut butters. And you were worried about euphamisms for tummy trouble! I just said nut butters....

Anyway, oatmeal or quinoa with almond butter in the morning. Fruits, nuts and a light tempeh/tofu sandwichy kind of thing for lunch and snacks.

On the bike I will eat bars, or clif shots. I am also all about the cookies! I carbo load in the morning with complex and simple carbs and a touch of protein. While riding I am all about the sugar, quick simple fuel. Reload at night after recovery and start again...

Loads of grains, vegan pastas and fresh veggies for dinner. I take most of my protein in the evenings. Plenty of time to digest before morning!

Funny you mention cycle-o. I though the food was terrible this year. I wasn't to fond of the new catering company. Lots of other grumbles were heard as well, but how do you please thousands of people?

Quinoa might be something to look into as it has loads of protein and is very tummy friendly. Tempeh is supposedly easier to digest as it is fermented already. Miso soup? Nutritional yeast?

I usually feel like I get too much protein....

vseven
01-22-2007, 06:30 PM
Too much protein on a vegan diet ? Really ???
Ok I gotta agree on last year's Cycle Oregon there was a tofu should we say :overload: but they tried hard and the seasoning was good.

Quinoa yes, last night in my rice cooker, try it ( the rice cooker) if you haven't already. And I agree re: oatmeal, the ONLY reliable meal (with yogurt added) for morning fuel. Raisins will work too maybe almond butter swirled in but not whole nuts.

Still, heated foods and beans I don't handle well in hot months. Seitan I rarely use.... suggestions ????

Do you make sandwiches in the summer with soy ???

And now the monkey wrench in the works....what about those amino protein thingamabobs ???

steelsreal
01-22-2007, 06:49 PM
I am serious, I have never felt short on Protein. The only supplements I take are emergen c's or however it is spelled and a daily multi-vitamin. I doubt I need the multi-vitamin but old habits are hard to kill...

I do eat a lot of tempeh sandwiches in the summer. Lots of bananas too for some reason.

I eat a lot of cold soups in the summer. My food processer is my friend! Lots of smoothies, that occaisionally contain silken-tofu. Lots and lots of pasta, both hot and cold. Is beer food?

I mainly use seitan in gravy.... MMMMM gravy! I also like it with nuts, dried fruit and rice, add a little ginger and some tamari...YUM! I equate tofu to chicken or turkey, seitan to steak. Horrible comparisons, though that is how I substitute when using a recipe calling for flesh.

I have no info on the amino-protien thingamabobs. We sell them at work and I have sat through many a dreary clinic extolling their virtues. In one ear and out the other. People come in asking for that stuff by name and never need to be "sold" on it. I can't imagine bringing it up to our average customer. Loads of blank stares would ensue.

I am sure there must be people on here who use them and can tell you why. I am not one of them however...

The largest and most powerful creatures to have ever lived did just fine without them and meat... Seems to work fine for me too. Though I have no opinion on what others consume and wish them the best!

If you are listening to your body, I bet it will tell you what to do.

BillD
01-22-2007, 07:56 PM
For a protein boost, I like Naturade (http://www.naturade.com/detail.aspx?ID=30) Total Meal Replacement powder. Two scoops (39gr) gives you 13 grams of protein. I mix it with 300ml of soy milk for 8 more grams of protein.

You can get it at Fred Myers in the bulk/health section.

endform
01-23-2007, 01:13 PM
There's also Barilla fortified pasta, I'm not sure though if the omega-3 is vegetarian though. Anyways, it's packed full of protein carbs and other good things. The only downside is that it doesn't taste great or have all that good of texture.

brock
01-25-2007, 09:30 AM
Molly Cameron competes at an elite level and she is vegan, so it can be done.

fetishridr
01-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Road riding, training, and racing can be done on a veggie diet, however, one can also eat glass.
if you want to eat in the most economical manner, try eating food that humans evolved eating, (ie meat) endurance training depletes testosterone levels, and the only way to truly "supplement" a diet would be to eat foods that contain animal products. Dont go out and eat bacon non stop, because the sat. fats are can be detrimental to your health, but poultry and fish are A -OK.
The entire of idea of eating as a veggie, yet NEEDING to supplement with soy and whey (and B12 for you vegans) non stop is a crock. Those foods are far more processed (harder to digest) than are your locally and naturally grown meats and fishes.
One essential amino acid is carnitine, found in red meats. it helps greatly with muscle soreness. Dont go out and buy a supplement because it is very difficult to digest if you dont eat it in its natural ratio with other foods.
Besides the protein issue, you are probaly not consuming enough triglyerides, which saps energy as well.

if you really insist on continuing to be a vegetarian, check out Hammer Nutrition out of Montana. They make every supplement you could need to be a veggie endurance athlete.

However, its much cheaper and easier to buy locally grown food from a market than to mailorder all of the food you need. I would stick with REAL food. Check out Joel Friel's book "Paleo Diet for Endurance Training"
It will be eye opening. If you try it, your training will improve.

steelsreal
01-28-2007, 02:55 PM
So lets try and examine your obviously well researched and scientifically validated words shall we?

Vegetarian or vegan diets are roughly comparable to a diet of pure glass... I can see that melted sand is roughly equal to whole grains, complete proteins and healthy fats... So I will give you that one. Good job professor!

Humans evolved eating meat, and testosterone needs to be replinished by eating animals. Gee I thought my body produced testosterone all by itself. You know with my endocrine system! Do we really need to absorb it from our surroundings? Is it like osmosis? How cool is that! You are super smart, thanks!

Last I checked we also evolved from omnivores. The bulk of their diet being non-meat. The cool thing is most of their meat would have come from scavenging carcasses and from insects and small rodents. I assume you eat lots of grubs and rotting corpses to follow your evolutionary ideal? We also evolved from creatures that exist just above the starvation level.... Care to mimic that?

Evolved from meat eaters... Yes those terrible flesh eating... monkeys. Chimps. Ferocious. I would say they are quite similar to lions, great white sharks, wolves, snakes, etc. That is why my evolutionary minded friends, we have large pointy, flesh piercing teeth. Larger than all the others, pointed and exposed out of our mouths. You know the two very prominent errr... rudimentary ones. You know those incisors. The ones that to me look like they are evolving themselves right out of our mouths. Geee, look at all those grinding, broad and flat teeth back there. One after another. Crap almost all of them!! Wonder what god gave me them for. Probably for meat pies, huh?

Lets see what next? How about eating as a veggie, though needing to "supplement" with.... get this! Veggies? That sure makes sense... Are you saying you eat only meat and "supplement" with vegetables? Or are you, yourself a vegetarian? A vegetarian who "supplements" with meat? How is consuming a protein directly from a bean considered supplementing? It is part of the diet, yes? I must not understand the word supplement...

Harder to digest? This one is a bit too much. Do I need to link to the countless studies showing that we are very inefficient at digesting red meat? You digest the fat from it, and little else. Obviously that doesnt apply to chicken and fish. Which I do not eat, though again I do not care if you do! You seem to have a strange obsession with my diet though...

Do you know that a proper vegetarian diet is considered to be one of the most healthy? A diet high in animal protein one of the worst? Don't believe me? Ask your doctor. Call a nutritionist. Please give me their name and number if they disagree with what I just wrote. If you don't want to bother with that, I will save you the trouble, they will agree. Because it is one of those pesky "facts". Unless you go back in time a few decades, maybe find some 70 year old doctor in the midwest....

Did you know most of the worlds population does not agree with or follow your diet recomendations?

Seen an elephant lately? How about a cow, bison, or horse. They look kind of anemic huh? Damn vegans. Many whales, brontasaurus, sauropods... They are all kind of skinny don't you think?

You suggest buying "local" "real" food. I agree. Locally grown produce is the way to go. Like you tried to say it is more economical. Way better to eat protein directly from its source, rather than filter it through an inefficient animal to yield lower amounts. Creating meat is wasteful. It is a major polluter. It siphons healthy, easily useable food away from our ecosystem and converts it to expensive, mostly unhealthy and vastly lower yields of protien. It also causes massive suffering. Though we know you don't care about that! Perhaps add into your weekly training regimine a few laps around a slaughterhouse. A stockyard. A hog or chicken farm.... Sound fun? Smell good? Want to take a drink from a downstream river?

You could put some of your righteous attitude towards helping the third world civilizations experiencing starvation. 100 pounds of food turned into one pound of food sound like a good trade? They don't think so either. Using a vast petroleum fired industry to grow the food, to feed to the animals, to transport the animals to their death and then distribute their hacked up bodies... hmmm sounds economical huh? But hey, you are an american "endurance" athelete. To hell with everyone else! Right?

You may consume farm raised, local hormone free meat. Most people do not... And could not, as it is far too inefficient. That is why we have the factory farmed flesh industry. The industry supported on the backs of the bulk of our planets inhabitants. You know where the oil to support all this waste comes from right?

Either way I do not care. No one here was trying to convert meat eaters to the dark side. Here in america you are sadly in the majority. I wonder what you are so scared of? Are your supplies and sources of dead animals being threatened? Meat eaters being villified in the public square?

Your entire rant is very antagonistic and childish. That is why I responded in a similar tone!

Though after rereading your post, I have decided you are right. I will convert to eating mostly meat. Or perhaps glass, not sure yet.... Your compelling and well reasoned argument won me over. Thanks!

As I said before, eat what you want! Your body will tell you what is best if you listen.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
01-28-2007, 05:56 PM
Your entire rant is very antagonistic and childish. That is why I responded in a similar tone!


If only you applied yourself in learning to respect others the same way you did with nutrition...you might actually contribute to the civility of the Bikeportland forums rather than perpetuating childishness.

steelsreal
01-28-2007, 07:38 PM
My goal here is not to contribute to civility. I was confronting belligerence, arrogance and ignorance.

Civility in my opinion, is a useless ideal. You can be civil at the gallows, in the courtroom and while staring at the barrel of a gun, though why would you? Fear? Civility is an over-rated virtue. It is a virtue of control. It is an ideal arbitrarily defined by power.

I wish the Democrats would stop being civil. I wish self-righteous attorneys would stop being civil. I wish oppressed people the world over would stop being civil. Why follow made up rules when your opponents do not?

Either way, I do not see you chiding fetishridr. His words were neither civil nor respectful. He showed zero respect for me and my lifestyle and I eagerly returned the favor.

How about you? Do you only condescend to and patronize people who espouse opinions contrary to your own? Do the people who need to be chastised and given lectures on civility also tend to be in disagreement with you? Civility is a capricious construct. It is a subjective illusion. It holds no external validity, sort of like your opinions... And mine!

I will take childishness over serious grown-upness any day. Smiling through clenched teeth, while smearing on a facade of civility. YUCK!

Respect must be earned, not learned.

fetishridr
01-28-2007, 09:38 PM
my point wasnt that one must eat only meat, but that not eating animals is very difficult to do while achieving optimum sporting performance.
The main problem with most americans diets ( and yes i know only .0001% of this forums users fit into this category) is that they consume high glycemic load foods (grains, even whole ones, white rice, cereals, etc) in place of proteins and fats. the average diet also is lacking in fruits and veggies.

the above mentioned diet causes the blood in the body to be acidic, whereas a raw foods or paleo diet would be alkaline. When the blood is acidic, the body consumes muscle protein to gain an alkaline state. its hard to train well, when your body is consuming muscle proteins to counteract your diet, when you are trying to recover from long rides as the original post said.

tofu, rice, beans, etc do have protein, but it has a low amount of Branched Chain Amino Acids (that help to stimulate the repair and construction of muscle tissue). These BCAA's are found in high concentrations in meats.
they are proven to be highly beneficial for recovery.

Another problem with not eating lean meats is the lack of omega 3 fatty acids which reside in animal products. they are essential for optimum performance. you can supplement with fish/flax/udo/ oil, but meats already contain the essential oils.

avoiding meat for the sake of starving children in africa is ridiculous. do you eat locally grown grain? rice? right. There are many places in the world where one cannot grow grain, but can grow grazing animals. yes, more energy goes into meat in ratio of 100:1 if i recall, but a pound of grain is not as nutritionally dense as a pound of meat. i bet that i've read as much anti-veggie propaganda as you have read veggie propaganda, so just chill out.
i wasnt making a case as to only eat meat, it was to entertain the idea that some meat is better than no meat for optimum athletic performance.


read some of Loren Cordains' work. He's a "real" doctor who is an authority in exercise science.

peace

steelsreal
01-28-2007, 09:44 PM
I agree with a lot of what you just said. Your tone and the ideas you are conveying are radically different than in your previous post, however.

I still take issue with your use of the word supplement. I consume flax, which is a seed. How is that a "supplement"? It is part of my diet. You include fish as a "supplement". Your earlier usage of this word shows that you feel supplements are unnecessary and laughable. By your logic however, meat is itself a supplement. You don't make a lot of sense sometimes.

It is also not necessary to consume meat to maintain an alkaline system. The alkaline cleanse I am on right now, certainly does not call for meat! By the way what about your glass comments? Your amazing testosterone opinion? Forget about your nonsense pretty quickly, huh?

Braggs liquid Aminos. Easy to find. Easy to digest. Yummy to boot. If salt is a supplement, than I suppose so is Braggs.

All your arguing and yet you admit that it is perfectly possible to function properly without meat. No one ever said it was easier. You simply seem to be a proponent of laziness. Yes it is easier to just eat meat. It is easier to drive a car everywhere you go too. Some people for ethical, moral or just purely personal reasons choose to walk a more difficult path. You called that "ridiculous" earlier....

I will not chill out, though thanks for the offer! I also have no illusions that you are not studiously keeping up on your propaganda.

You are right about the 100:1 ratio. You abuse your little bit of knowledge though. I agree that one pound of rice is not as nutritionally dense as one pound of meat! What about the other 99 pounds of grain???? 100 pounds of grain has a f@ck sh$t load more nutritional value than one pound of meat. It also does not consume the water that the cow will need. Or the extra land that the cow needs. Or the hormones they pump the cow up with. Or the petroleum to transport the grain to the cow and the cow to slaughter. The refrigeration of the highly "processed" and undigestable cow, and on and on and on. You could be right, though you aren't!

I am sure you will google up some more facts to use poorly and out of context though. You are the first person I have ever met who proudly proclaimed that he was self brainwashing himself with propaganda. Were you expecting congratulations on that one?

My consumption of non-local grains and produce is in no way the same footprint as the consumption of factory farmed meat. You eagerly disregard the agriculture and equipment and land necessary for the creation of meat. The rainforests being slash burned for cattle grazing. It is the same absurd argument as the pro-car folks who equate bicycle tires and chain oil production to the petroleum neeeds for vehicles! You have heard that one right? You sound the same to me.

People are starving and suffering at the hands of americans. Or perhaps it is under our heels? Our consumption is unsustainable and wildly disproportionate to the rest of the planets population. I find it intriguing that my concern for starving people in 3rd world countries is "ridiculous" to you.

This injustice is not why I choose to avoid meat, however. I simply do not like where it comes from. Factory farms, are disgusting to me. The destruction of coral reefs and ocean ecosystems for the mass harvesting/dredging of fish is very troubling to me. Enormous warehouses with caged hens are disconcerting to me.

And just to be clear I feel ridiculous talking to you about this, and yes I think you are absolutely ridiculous too.

fetishridr
01-29-2007, 10:44 AM
the question was about OPTIMUM HUMAN performance, not the ecological impact of meat eating.
i find it interesting that the most dynamic means of gaining and transferring information known to mankind is not valid to you. the internet and its search engines contain written text that was researched and published by doctors in the american medical journal, as well as many others. i've quoted and included sources for your reading enjoyment, if you are so inclined. most of this knowledge was provided to me during college where i was studying Health.
perhaps you would prefer if we wrote pissy letters to each other instead of using this forum and the internet. or we could use sticks and writed symbols in the dirt.

here is some knowlege for you.

Testosterone is produced by the body- correct, the testes to be exact
When its used as a performance enhancer its illegal- correct
When consuming organisms that manufacture their own testosterone, you can elevate your own testosterone levels. -correct
interesting huh?
"Like other steroid hormones, testosterone is derived from cholesterol." (Wikipediea). if you are avoiding eating meats and animal products, the consumption of cholesterol is lessened, thereby decreasing the production of testosterone.
"Regular Exercise depresses reproductive hormone responses in women and men. . . . male endurance athletes generally maintain resting Testosterone levels between 60% and 85% of values for sedentary men." (Exercise Physiology, 435). Testosterone "may indirectly affect a muscle fiber's protein content by promoting GH (Growth Hormone) release, leading to the enhancement of "force-production capabilities of skeletal muscle" (Exer. 426)

We all know that Testosterone aids in the building of muscle tissue, which aids endurance training.

in response to the supplement issue, yes, i was saying that needing to take flax and fish oil is silly, because the fats that these oils contain can be found in the in the right proportions from regular ( or more accurately, less highly refined) foods such as fish.

in response to the issue of doctors saying eating meat is unhealthy, take a look as the food guide pyramid, that thing is terrible. no doctor would object to someone eating lean meats (fish, poultry, game animals) that have a low saturated fat content, unless they already had a self inflicted health problem like type 2 diabetes or artherosclerosis. you would probably adhere to the notion that a low fat diet is ideal for health, but it is not. Fats are needed for many vital processes in the body.

and
100 lbs of chicken take the same amount of gas as 100lbs of grain to transport, give or take some for the AC. but, as mentioned in your tirade, the slaughter house uses energy as well, but not mentioned by you is the amount of fuel that goes into preparing, planting, fertilizing, raising, and harvesting that grain.

Blind and Vehement liberalism is just as dangerous to our society and world as blind and vehement conservatism. before your next reply, please read some of these studies regarding performance and nutrition, and dont assume that just because the info was obtained on the interent that it is invalid. Just address the question at hand, the question about recovery when training.

texts- Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance. 5th ed. McArdle, F. Katch, and V Katch

Wikipedia

steelsreal
01-29-2007, 11:02 AM
I address your valid points as well as your made up crap line by line. You have yet to comment on my critiques, you just drag new crap out. I am content to let me words stand, as I doubt anyone else has your reading comprehension issues.

fetishridr
01-29-2007, 11:23 AM
i take your response as an indication that you have no working knowledge of human performance and nutrition beyond your contrived attempt at turning an honest question and reponse into a platform for shouting about the ills of western civilization and the benefits of vegetarianism to the world.

face it, there is a middle ground.
i'll lend you this textbook in exchange for your fixie

steelsreal
01-29-2007, 12:01 PM
We had 9 posts on this thread discussing honest questions and responses. You then felt the need to join in with belligerant and antagonizing words. Your behaviour led us down this path. Here are some of your "honest" responses....

"Road riding, training, and racing can be done on a veggie diet, however, one can also eat glass"

"if you want to eat in the most economical manner, try eating food that humans evolved eating, (ie meat)"

"the only way to truly "supplement" a diet would be to eat foods that contain animal products"

"The entire of idea of eating as a veggie, yet NEEDING to supplement with soy and whey (and B12 for you vegans) non stop is a crock"

"if you really insist on continuing to be a vegetarian"

"I would stick with REAL food."

Those are just from your first post. Is this advocating a middle ground?

You are backtracking now because you know you stepped in here like a total tool. No one was bashing meat eaters or advocating veggie only diets for all. YOU however are vegetarian bashing, and advocating meat eating for all. You could have joined in and shared your supposedly expansive knowledge of health and fitness with out mocking other peoples lifestyle choices.

Your words have more than shown that you did not step into this discussion to share knowledge. You walked in with a big ol chip on your shoulder and here we now are.....

I never suggested that there was no middle ground. I have been talking about my personal decisions, in direct response to critiques and statements made by you, not trying to convert anyone.

YOU are using the forum to espouse your ideas just as I am. However, it was you who derailled the thread by inserting your contrived platform, as it were. Try owning the words you type. You do actually mean the things you say, right?

rainperimeter
01-29-2007, 12:48 PM
my girlfriend and i sometimes eat sushi. i rarely to never eat dairy. i have a ridiculous sweet tooth. i'm 30 and arguably in the best shape i've ever been in (well, i played high school basketball, i was very fit then). i bike 365 days a year and sometimes i bike quite a many miles in a day, sometimes only a few (to work and back). i ran in the hood to coast this year and ate vegan for the duration of the race excluding a pancake gorge fest in jewell. aside from runners knee and being awake for almost 48 straight hours i felt great.

generally speaking i think eating meat in 2007 (i don't mean in 2007 vegetarianism is hip, i mean it's 2007, we live in a city, we're not frontiersmen, hunting to make it through the winter) is a pointless thing to do.

i eat the fish however so i'm not vegetarian myself so what's the point of all this coming from me? god damn it.

i work in a glass factory (art glass, not windshields, not pipes and bongs) and wouldn't dream of eating it.

jami
01-31-2007, 10:24 PM
i like a great tofu scramble recipe from the book "how it all vegan" (http://www.govegan.net/). it makes a great breakfast that has impressed many housemates and weekend guests.

my somewhat-adapted, mostly copyright-infringing version:
1/2 medium onion, chopped
5 mushrooms, sliced
splash of olive oil
1 pkg firm tofu
1-2 tsp curry powder
1-2 tbsp bragg's amino acids
turmeric (to taste)
pepper (to taste)
salsa (to taste)
2 stalks green onions (chopped)

in a large saucepan, add onions and mushrooms to olive oil. saute on medium-high heat until onions are translucent. crumble tofu into pan. add curry, bragg's, turmeric, and pepper. saute 10-12 minutes until moisture has evaporated. add salsa and green onions and scramble on high for 2-4 minutes.

crushed red pepper and spinach are nice additions, if you have them.

it's not scientifically calibrated training food and i wouldn't recommend it just before a hardcore ride, but i am (fairly) vegetarian and this is some proteiny goodness, i tell ya.

rainperimeter
02-01-2007, 01:16 AM
my girlfriend and i use that book constantly. it's great. also good is the passionate vegetarian. it's huge and offers vegan options when possible.

and soups this time of year are pretty great also...

vseven
02-01-2007, 08:57 AM
Terrific resources, thanks so much for sharing them.

shanti
02-15-2007, 04:35 PM
Brendan Brazier, world class triathalon competitor, has developed a wonderful menu set for the vegan athlete. He outlines his incredible knowledge of plant-based diets and how to thrive on them as a competitive athlete in his aptly titled book, "Thrive". He has also come up with his own vegan meal replacer called Vega, which is a really great product, using only the most natural, helpful plant-based whole foods.

One of his main sources of whole food nutrients is hempseed. It has a very high amount of complete proteins as well as several other beneficial nutrients.

Anyways, his info is certainly worth checking out:

http://www.brendanbrazier.com/