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Rixtir
01-21-2007, 10:17 PM
Now that the snow has melted, the city thoughtfully swept all of the gravel they spread on the streets....

Right into the bike lanes!

Anybody know how to get the city to (a) Clean up the mess they made, and (b) Stop treating cyclists as second class users of the road (i.e., it doesn't matter if there's gravel in the bike lanes, as long as it's not in the automobile lanes) and clean ALL of the raffic lanes?

jwdoom
01-22-2007, 10:21 AM
We'll stop being treated like second class users of the road when we aren't second class users of the road. Or, when there aren't many, many times the people driving as there are cycling.

We can ride in the regular lanes, so it's tough cookies for us that the bike lanes are fouled with gravel. Frankly anyone who's still riding in this weather (which includes me) is plumb crazy anyway.

And did PDOT crews really sweep the streets? I thought it was just normal traffic that pushes gravel out of the way.

Rixtir
01-22-2007, 11:38 AM
We'll stop being treated like second class users of the road when we aren't second class users of the road. Or, when there aren't many, many times the people driving as there are cycling.

We can ride in the regular lanes, so it's tough cookies for us that the bike lanes are fouled with gravel. Frankly anyone who's still riding in this weather (which includes me) is plumb crazy anyway.Yes, I know we can ride in the other lanes when the bike lane is hazardous, as it is now. That's not the point. The point is the city should be keeping the bike lanes free of debris, instead of pushing debris into the bike lanes. Cycling should be a fundamental part of the city's transportation plan, instead of an afterthought. That means that when the snow melts, the city doesn't just push all the gravel into the bike lanes to clear the road for cars.

And did PDOT crews really sweep the streets? I thought it was just normal traffic that pushes gravel out of the way.That I don't know. I just assumed it, given how clean the automobile lanes are, and how much gravel is in the bike lanes.

nishiki
01-22-2007, 12:19 PM
Yes, I know we can ride in the other lanes when the bike lane is hazardous, as it is now. That's not the point. The point is the city should be keeping the bike lanes free of debris, instead of pushing debris into the bike lanes. Cycling should be a fundamental part of the city's transportation plan, instead of an afterthought. That means that when the snow melts, the city doesn't just push all the gravel into the bike lanes to clear the road for cars.

That I don't know. I just assumed it, given how clean the automobile lanes are, and how much gravel is in the bike lanes.

Rixtir,

I am with you man, I ve called many times the city so that they would put a red carpet for my commute to work.
geez, riding on cement! That s awful! My tires get used, who's going to pay for that?

Rixtir
01-22-2007, 01:06 PM
Nah, you don't want that, it would get soggy, and then slimy, during the rain. ;)

jami
01-22-2007, 01:18 PM
i don't know the long-term solution (besides talking (nicely) to the boss of the street sweepers), but if you want a specific lane cleaned up, you could try calling 503-823-SAFE. i haven't noticed the hawthorne bridge bike lane being as bad as it usually is post-snow, but that was compared to all the side roads in southeast, which were practically country roads, they were so gravelly.

BillD
01-22-2007, 04:53 PM
Contact: Street Cleaning
Phone: (503) 823-1750 or (503) 823-1778

Outside of normal business hours, call maintenance dispatch (503) 823 1700.

The gravel is moved into the bike lanes and shoulders by the action of the traffic. Sweepers don't just move it. they pick it up. It will take some time to get this work done.

bikieboy
01-22-2007, 06:17 PM
Bill D, good info! and you're absolutely right about the gravel ending up in the bike lanes due to the "sweeping" action of motor vehicles, & not the malicious actions of city crews. Over 1400 miles of city streets were graveled, and that stuff goes down a lot faster than it comes up. Damn gravity.

More detail than you ever wanted about crap on the street, from the City's website:

"a 1979 Street Cleaning Study presented to the City Council found that 97 percent of street debris lies within 40 inches of the curb. The accumulation of debris at the curb is caused by the design of the street and vehicular movement. Streets are designed with a crown in the middle sloping toward the sides. Water and debris move toward the curb and gutter areas. Vehicle movement scatters debris to the edges of traffic lanes."

norse rider
01-22-2007, 08:08 PM
I have ridden all winter on 23's but this gravel now has me thinking twice and switching out to 32's. I called the number mentioned above about the gravel on the SW side of town. They will get around to it; it is just going to take awhile. I personally would rather ride in horizontal rain showers then deal with the gravel, I almost fell on my behind this morning.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
01-22-2007, 09:22 PM
Yup. And I don't know about the City being busy keeping the certain areas of the city cleaner than others. I rode down Terwilliger this weekend and spent the whole time in the motor vehicle lane since the entire lengh of the bike lane from the cemetary to downtown was completely covered in gravel. So as far as I can tell, I pay more in taxes than most but get the same dangerous bike lanes as everyone else.

Rixter is right, this is a basic service that the City has been derelict on, knowingly creating a dangerous situation for cyclists. We should get BTA to write a group letter.

BillD
01-22-2007, 11:34 PM
Yup. And I don't know about the City being busy keeping the certain areas of the city cleaner than others. I rode down Terwilliger this weekend and spent the whole time in the motor vehicle lane since the entire lengh of the bike lane from the cemetary to downtown was completely covered in gravel. So as far as I can tell, I pay more in taxes than most but get the same dangerous bike lanes as everyone else.

Rixter is right, this is a basic service that the City has been derelict on, knowingly creating a dangerous situation for cyclists. We should get BTA to write a group letter.

Let's see... the snow started on Tuesday, all available city personnel were involved in plowing, sanding and de-icing 24 hrs a day until Friday and you want the gravel picked up (an 18 day job) in time for your weekend ride?

You can't be serious.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
01-23-2007, 11:54 AM
Oh yes, I'm quite serious. If we can have "all available personnel" out round the clock making the roads safe for motor vehicles, then we can damn sure do the same for bikes.

At the very least, they could make some effort to clear the most heavily traveled bike routes first. But instead we got....

BillD
01-23-2007, 12:28 PM
Oh yes, I'm quite serious. If we can have "all available personnel" out round the clock making the roads safe for motor vehicles, then we can damn sure do the same for bikes.

At the very least, they could make some effort to clear the most heavily traveled bike routes first. But instead we got....


Regarding the clean-up effort, the limiting factor is equipment (sweepers)... and all available equipment is used for the round the clock clean-up. At least it was when I worked there.

They are making the road safe for bikes. More so than for autos since >90% of the gravel has been pushed out of the auto travel lanes by the action of traffic.

At the very least, etc......
Do you have any information to share concerning the level of effort expended on the most heavily traveled bike lanes or in what order they are cleaned?
Or do you just throw that out there as a provocative statement?

The oft repeated proclamation that street cleaning services are parceled out on the basis of user class or taxpayer status is a myth... it just doesn't happen. You can check that out if you like. The daily work logs of all sweeper operators, going back for many years, are public information and available to any who ask for a copy. For what it's worth, the bike path along the Columbia River by the airport gets swept more often that the typical residential street.

knary
01-24-2007, 12:56 AM
Bill, Thanks for the information.

lazlo
01-24-2007, 11:31 AM
I noticed this morning that N. Greeley had been swept.

jwdoom
01-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Yup. And I don't know about the City being busy keeping the certain areas of the city cleaner than others. I rode down Terwilliger this weekend and spent the whole time in the motor vehicle lane since the entire lengh of the bike lane from the cemetary to downtown was completely covered in gravel. So as far as I can tell, I pay more in taxes than most but get the same dangerous bike lanes as everyone else.

Rixter is right, this is a basic service that the City has been derelict on, knowingly creating a dangerous situation for cyclists. We should get BTA to write a group letter.

Whoa. WHOA! Why on earth should any time or money be spent on picking up gravel in January when there's a decent possibilty that PDOT might have to drop more between now and spring?

Yes, the gravel sucks to ride on, but, well, deal with it. There's definitely no reason to get any advocates reason get assy about it.

And before someone gets conspiracy theory on me, I do not work for the city in any capacity.

NEPcyclistic
01-24-2007, 11:53 PM
Whoa. WHOA! Why on earth should any time or money be spent on picking up gravel in January when there's a decent possibilty that PDOT might have to drop more between now and spring?

Yes, the gravel sucks to ride on, but, well, deal with it. There's definitely no reason to get any advocates reason get assy about it.

And before someone gets conspiracy theory on me, I do not work for the city in any capacity.

Yes, i agree. Wait until spring to get your panties in a knot. Take the slicks off and put some nobbies on. Plus this is like a yearly event, gravel in the bike lanes is not uncommon. You know sometimes i think people make up stuff to complain about. If you see some gravel coming, slow down!