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TCR Punk
09-20-2006, 08:12 PM
So where do you pick up this fantastic device for my commuter.

blackpeugot
09-20-2006, 09:59 PM
umm,, air horn... yum... that would wake up the dizzy blonde , rollin the cell phone in the suevee.

lemmie know what you fix up

shhambo
09-21-2006, 01:13 PM
http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm

I have heard they are illegal in oregon though.

TCR Punk
09-21-2006, 02:44 PM
http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm

I have heard they are illegal in oregon though.


Do they really work? Is their a shop in town that carries them?

dan
09-21-2006, 06:16 PM
citybikes annex + woodstock bike gallery both have them.

sunningotter
09-21-2006, 07:56 PM
According to Oregon Revised Statutes 815.280, it is a Class D infraction to have a whistle or siren on your bike (don't know what's wrong with mermaids...). With all the clueless drivers, it is tempting though... I might risk the ticket to increase my safety.

TCR Punk
09-21-2006, 08:32 PM
According to Oregon Revised Statutes 815.280, it is a Class D infraction to have a whistle or siren on your bike (don't know what's wrong with mermaids...). With all the clueless drivers, it is tempting though... I might risk the ticket to increase my safety.


Hell yeah. If you even get a ticket. I've done a bunch of stupid stuff on my bike, and have yet to get a ticket.

donnambr
09-21-2006, 08:49 PM
I am really not into breaking laws on my bike, but this one I plan to break as soon as I can afford it. Cars can really hear that thing, even the hermetically sealed ones.

sunningotter
09-22-2006, 08:32 PM
I think that I have found an air horn at Bike Nashbar before that is rechargable using your frame pump... Not be encourage scoff-law behavior... IMO, you have to be alive to be ticketed.

Rixtir
09-23-2006, 03:00 PM
I agree with Donnambr on this one. Better to be safe.

And reading that statute was interesting. It's the same statute that says a bike must be equipped with a brake. The part that is supposedly applicable to air horns says no bike shall be equipped with or use a siren or whistle. Now, I don't think an air horn is either a siren or a whistle. But let's say a cop tickets you for violating that law. The cop would have to argue that "siren or whistle" should be interpreted broadly to include air horn. That's the opposite argument that the cop would make on the brakeless bike (that the law should be interpreted narrowly to exclude fixed gears). :D

Personally, I think that an air horn would be analogous to an automobile's horn, rather than a siren or a whistle.

Kitsune06
09-23-2006, 04:17 PM
Maybe the statute's point lies in the argument that the airhorn might well sound enough like a 'car' noise that drivers wouldn't associate it with a bike. Similar to shouting "ON YOUR LEFT!" clueless people (who didn't know you were there and still don't) get all startled and look around, but don't necessarily suspect the cyclist of having made said noise.

TCR Punk
09-23-2006, 05:19 PM
Maybe the statute's point lies in the argument that the airhorn might well sound enough like a 'car' noise that drivers wouldn't associate it with a bike. Similar to shouting "ON YOUR LEFT!" clueless people (who didn't know you were there and still don't) get all startled and look around, but don't necessarily suspect the cyclist of having made said noise.


I like it best when you tell them, "ON YOUR LEFT," and then they look over there RIGHT shoulder.

donnambr
09-24-2006, 11:52 AM
Personally, I think that an air horn would be analogous to an automobile's horn, rather than a siren or a whistle.

Absolutely. If I went to court over a ticket, I would want to argue that automobiles cannot hear my bicycle bell and that this is the only product made for a bicycle that a motorist can hear - especially motorists talking on their cellphones. How safe is it for me to be without a way to "communicate" in a dangerous situation? I guess I could bang on the car, but that seems more obnoxious than a horn. I'd still keep my bell, as an airhorn would be overkill and noise pollution in most bike/bike or bike/pedestrian situations. That said, I've met people around town with airhorns on their bikes, and they've never been hassled by the police for it. Anyone know of that ever happening?

2.8
09-24-2006, 10:09 PM
...but I haven't kept it on my bike much. It really gets drivers' attention, but when you really need to use it you can't because you've got to ride out of the situation with both hands on the bars. The button for the horn isn't easily reached.
But if you want to make a lot of racket and annoy people it works good.
Mine is shaped like a water bottle, sits in the hanger, and the horn mounts on the handle bars. You pump it up with your tire pump. I think I must've got mine at City Bikes.

Matt P.
09-25-2006, 11:30 AM
Cars aren't allowed a whistle or siren, either. The statute isn't to prevent air horns on bikes, it's to prevent people confusing you for a police officer. This might be outlawed in certain jurisdictions in Oregon, but it's not against state law unless someone tries a *really* broad interpretation of the law.

Caveat - I am not a lawyer, and welcome correction on this post from those who are.

Haven_kd7yct
09-25-2006, 02:54 PM
I like it best when you tell them, "ON YOUR LEFT," and then they look over there RIGHT shoulder.

LOL!! Or the people who immediately swerve to the left while looking over their shoulder to find out who's hollering at them.

:)

PoPo
09-25-2006, 11:31 PM
Hmmm....
That air horn is a clever idea!

Indeed, while I can't say how every cop or judge would interpret the law and this particular horn, it seems like a good argument that it is a horn and not a siren or whistle. I would also venture a guess that most cops don't even know that particular law, and even if they did, wouldn't bother inforcing it unless someone was really being annoying with it. I think most cops are very practical and would probably appreciate the increased safety of a loud horn on a bicycle.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
09-28-2006, 12:43 PM
I have got to get me one of them!

Joe Planner
10-05-2006, 08:28 AM
Cars aren't allowed a whistle or siren, either. The statute isn't to prevent air horns on bikes, it's to prevent people confusing you for a police officer. This might be outlawed in certain jurisdictions in Oregon, but it's not against state law unless someone tries a *really* broad interpretation of the law.

Caveat - I am not a lawyer, and welcome correction on this post from those who are.

This is just what I was thinking.. Obviously, the # of decimals you reach doesn't appear to be the issue, since car horns are very loud and annoying. Police standing and conducting traffic control at intersections use whistles to move traffic while police and other emergency service providers use sirens while in vehicles. It's apparent to me that the intent of the code is to prevent confusion with police's attention-getting instruments.

I'm not a lawyer either, but this one seems too simple to get wrong. Anyway, being adverse to putting additional noise in an urban environment, I will stick with the bells...

TCR Punk
10-20-2006, 02:10 PM
Damn.... it's LOUD! Can't wait to use it in traffic...

jyl
10-25-2006, 07:00 PM
I have a 12v NightSun lighting system, water-bottle battery, enough juice to drive 42 watts of dual headlights. Could I simply mount an automotive 12v electric horn on the bike and switch it with a momentary contact pushbutton switch on the handlebar? What do you think, would this work?

C-Thru
10-25-2006, 07:33 PM
I would think that would take a large (car sized) battery to get any volume out of it.

Rixtir
10-27-2006, 04:29 PM
I would think that would take a large (car sized) battery to get any volume out of it.I don't know with certainty, but i don't think you'd need a car battery. I think that 12 volt battery should be enough. Best way to know would be to test it out, I guess...

TCR Punk
10-27-2006, 06:27 PM
Car batteries have a much higher amp rating than a 12 volt battery. Amps are the strength of the electricity, volts are the amount passing through the wire. Having said that, a car horn requires more amps than a regular 12 volt hobby battery puts out.

Also an automotive car horn would add a couple more pounds of weight to your bicycle. And you would need a mounting system that would require bolts, because the ground for the horns are the mounting brackets, and the only hard wire sent to the horns is the positive + wire. They come in pairs, high and low.

donnambr
12-12-2006, 08:24 PM
After 3 near misses in the last month, all of which were due to the motorist not expecting me on the road, I sprung for an air horn this weekend. I'm enthralled with it already, as it saved me a great deal of trouble this evening when I was riding east across the Hawthorne Bridge from downtown. I was in the bike lane approaching the line of cars from the Naito ramp who wait for a chance to get on the bridge. I believe this is a site for many near misses for many of us. I'm all lit up and in the outer third of the bike lane - as visible as I'm going to get at night. The car is stopped and the driver is looking for cars, and of course does not see me, probably because she is too busy with her cell phone conversation. She begins to pull out, which would cut me off majorly in this rain. I use the horn and she sure does notice me after that! She comes to a complete hard stop, pauses in her phone conversation to look around for the car that made that noise. I just cruise on by safely and make it home in one piece. I don't think she ever figured out how that noise was made. Life is good and the air horn helped with preserving mine. :D

NEPcyclistic
12-12-2006, 11:39 PM
I use the horn and she sure does notice me after that! She comes to a complete hard stop, pauses in her phone conversation to look around for the car that made that noise. I just cruise on by safely and make it home in one piece. I don't think she ever figured out how that noise was made. Life is good and the air horn helped with preserving mine. :D

Yeah, I use mine all the time. I was rolling down a side street and someone was backing out of their driveway, stopped and looked both ways, but didn't notice me, and proceeded to back out. I honked the horn and the driver clamped on the brakes. It's fantastic. I think they should be a required on bicycle commuters.

The one problem with them is they help you avoid the close call. Not help you through one. But I guess it's just like anything else, once your in a hairy mess, your in it.

Cecil M
12-15-2006, 02:30 PM
An air horn is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. The last thing i want is for Portland streets to turn into is the streets of NYC or DC where people lay on their horn at every little thing.
A good head light, rear light, helmet, patience and being able to anticipate the dangers while navigating the city will do you more good than a loud horn.

NEPcyclistic
12-15-2006, 04:44 PM
An air horn is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. The last thing i want is for Portland streets to turn into is the streets of NYC or DC where people lay on their horn at every little thing.
A good head light, rear light, helmet, patience and being able to anticipate the dangers while navigating the city will do you more good than a loud horn.

Sure, thats all good. But whats one more safety precaution?

donnambr
12-15-2006, 07:36 PM
An air horn is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. The last thing i want is for Portland streets to turn into is the streets of NYC or DC where people lay on their horn at every little thing.
A good head light, rear light, helmet, patience and being able to anticipate the dangers while navigating the city will do you more good than a loud horn.

We'll have to agree to disagree. For me, it is important that I be able to make myself known to someone in a car that is so well sealed and insulated, they cannot hear very much from the outside. They cannot hear my bicycle bell. I think it's a powerful tool, and so I am judicious in its use. I have all that you describe above - including patience and the ability to anticipate dangers. In the end, no matter how much control I have over my own actions, there are always unpredictible actions from other users of the road. That's where the air horn comes in handy. I strongly believe it may well the only thing that would divert a driver's attention away from a cell phone conversation apart from banging on their vehicle. Since physically touching some people's cars makes them unbelievably angry and potentially violent, I think this is the safer alternative.

I think it would only become like NYC or DC if this tool was misused.

huss
12-16-2006, 05:02 AM
According to Oregon Revised Statutes 815.280, it is a Class D infraction to have a whistle or siren on your bike (don't know what's wrong with mermaids...). With all the clueless drivers, it is tempting though... I might risk the ticket to increase my safety.

The law you posted, says no siern or whistle! As far as I know a horn is a horn, not a whistle or a siren.:)

Matt P.
01-05-2007, 12:27 PM
Car batteries have a much higher amp rating than a 12 volt battery. Amps are the strength of the electricity, volts are the amount passing through the wire. Having said that, a car horn requires more amps than a regular 12 volt hobby battery puts out.

Ok, this is waaaaaaaay after the fact, but that explanation is backwards - voltage is the strength of the electricity (force, actually), not amps. Amps are the amount of electrons physically passing through the wire. A high voltage, low amperage battery can do a lot of work, but only for a short time. A low voltage, high amperage battery can't run powerful electronics, but it can run something low power for an awfully long time.

A 12-volt hobby battery could run a car air horn just fine - it won't last as long, however. What a 12V hobby battery *can't* do is start a car - the starter motor draws way too many amps.

The best way to look at voltage and amperage is to look at water pipes. A garden hose typically has more pressure (voltage) than a fire hydrant, but an open hydrant can fill the street full of water a lot faster, due to it's larger opening. The flow of water in cubic feet per second (current, or amperage) is much greater even though the pressure is lower.

Now, if you want to talk about which does more *work*, well, power = volts * amps. So a 12V hobby battery that can put out, say 10A, would have 120W of power. A 12V *car* battery, OTOH, has typically 550A, or 6600W. If you're trying to start a car, you need about 6000W to do it - the hobby battery isn't going to work. A car horn, however, needs 5-13A of current to function. It'll work just fine with a 10A hobby battery, it'll just drain that battery a lot quicker than a 550A car battery. A battery only outputs as many amps as the device needs to function.

Where car batteries become truly dangerous is when there is a short. If you short the terminals on a battery, current can pass from one side to the other with very little resistance. With a 9V battery, the 2A or so of current will eventually make the battery warm, but that's about it. With a 550A car battery, if you take a screwdriver and place it across the terminals and leave it there (I REALLY don't recommend that), you can melt the screwdriver.

Of course, most of us aren't going to lug car batteries around on our bikes...

Starkmojo
01-08-2007, 02:06 PM
12v motorcycle battery would be lighter... use a 6v VW car horn for extra volume..