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wsbob
03-29-2010, 11:03 PM
June 27 update...storm grate finally raised to street grade...see before and after pics here: Hall Blvd at Light rail crossing storm grate improvement before and after pics (http://bikeportland.org/forum/showpost.php?p=26637&postcount=30)

January 11, 2011 update...news on Hall Blvd storm grate repair scheduling:

latest word about when Hall Bvd storm grate will be brought up to pavement grade (http://bikeportland.org/forum/showpost.php?p=25370&postcount=26)

August 18th update...news about the catch basin soon being raised to street grade:

email text from Beav public works employee (http://bikeportland.org/forum/showpost.php?p=24553&postcount=21)

June 1st update, my comment posted to this thread noting having observed that work to regrade the Hall Blvd catch basin just north of the light rail tracks, has begun:

Hall Blvd catch basin in process of being raised to street level, comment posted by wsbob (http://bikeportland.org/forum/showpost.php?p=26500&postcount=27)


May 23 update...posted some new stuff (http://www.bikeportland.org/forum/showpost.php?p=23797&postcount=20) about S.W. Millikan way between Hall Blvd and Lombard where lynnef would like to see the dirt path get a bit of paving so Beaverton residents on foot and also, bike commuters wouldn't have to slide around in the mud as they make their way on this useful route across Beaverton. I'd welcome suggestions as to how to approach Beaverton officials about looking into getting some short term low cost work done to improve this route connection. I figure even hard packed fine gravel would be an improvement over mud, and less toxic to the environment than asphalt or concrete.


.................................................. .............................................



Just posting a notice about my post over on the 'What have you done today? thread, started up by K'tesh quite some time ago. My little part in encouraging Beaverton to keep focused on improving its primary connector streets sufficiently to allow bike use to help relieve the immense transportation demand placed on them by excessive motor vehicle use.

If it has to, can this bike lane not end in a way that better integrates motor vehicle and bike traffic into a lane both must share? (http://bikeportland.org/forum/showthread.php?p=23459#post23459)

Got pics too. ;)

Hall Blvd bike lane approaching and ending at light rail crossing
(http://picasaweb.google.com/111259046029235766422/HallBlvdBikeLaneApproachingLightRailCrossing#)

May 10th update
:) Some progress has been made towards correcting problems associated with the merge of the Hall Blvd bike lane where it approaches the light rail tracks and passes a storm catch basin some 50' beyond it. Tree branches and an auto dealers banners were obscuring the sign. The branches have been trimmed....and the sign pole holding the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign has been relocated slightly to prevent the sign it holds from being obscured by the auto dealer banner that remains in its original position.

According to Beaverton City Traffic Engineer, Jabra Khasho by way of a citizen email to one of our fellow forum members Lynnef, the catch basin grate is scheduled to be raised to a level closer to that of the roadway itself..hopefully allowing bike traffic to ride directly over it without threatening the rider's balance, and thus allowing bike traffic to take full advantage of the narrow portion of roadway available to bike traffic on this section of Hall Blvd. You're welcome to read the whole saga of how this came...or is coming to be...in the posts that follow. Perhaps think of it as an introduction to how you might go about initiating some little changes that could make your city a better place to live...http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif

It's time also to mention that in going about getting this issues with this section of the bike lane smoothed out, the example I followed was provided by forum member Jim Parsons (he uses the forum handle, K'tesh.). Over recent years, he's done a lot of this kind of thing; bringing to the attention of city officials, numerous aggravating and dangerous roadway problems that might otherwise have not received the prompt attention that is in order for everyone's safe use of the road.

lynnef
03-30-2010, 10:01 PM
kinda sounds like Mr. Kasho needs to go for a bike ride. Take him down Lombard across Farmington, too :)

wsbob
03-31-2010, 12:00 AM
lynnef...I really appreciate the input. http://www.bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif . At the Beaverton Bicycle Advisory Committee meeting, it was board member and Councilor Betty Bode, that encouraged me to call up Mr. Kasho and arrange to go over with him to Hall Blvd to take a look at details on the street that I had questions about.

I let a couple weeks pass before I called him, which in hind-sight, may not have been wise. By the time I finally called him, he'd already been to the site and checked it out. He didn't volunteer the info, and I didn't want to outright ask him if he'd ridden a bike as part of his inspection. As for ideas I might have had as to how the 'bike lane ends/merge' situation could have best been improved, I suppose I'd more or less deliberately refrained from imagining any, thinking it might be best to not jump to conclusions before the city's professional weighed in on it. Now that it seems he's at least initially done that I probably do have some thoughts on this.


Given that the street in this particular location alternately narrows and widens over a relatively short distance, and that this point on the street has 3 lanes, right lane motor vehicle and bike traffic should probably be instructed to merge through this particular section of Hall Blvd. Because the street has 3 lanes here, motor vehicle operators advised sufficiently in advance of the merge, and that wished to avoid reducing their vehicle speed to that of bike traffic in the right lane, could signal and merge into one of the left lanes.


That being the case, rather than a sign reading 'Bike Lane Ends', the appropriate sign should probably read 'Cars/Bikes Merge'.


Whichever way the sign reads, it seems to me personally that the sign is located too close to the end of the bike lane. It should be another 75 feet in advance of the end of the bike lane, so motor vehicle and bike operators can clearly see what it advises and make preparations accordingly.


There's more to this situation than my pictures adequately show. Lacking a 'ride-a-long' by a city official, if I could, I'd do a little video following a bike proceeding across the light rail tracks and beyond as it approaches the storm grate, showing how the bike's natural line of travel brings it very close to, or actually over the grate if the person riding isn't careful.

I'm sure there's a lot of demand on city official's time. Given that, I really appreciate the effort Mr. Kasho devoted to checking this situation out.

The Lombard/Farmington intersection is complicated, but I'm really not so familiar with it compared to the Hall Blvd site. I've ridden it...haven't really had a problem with it, which never the less, doesn't allay some unsettling feelings I have about whether or not I'll safely cross all those rails. I would think if you or anyone else has some ideas about how it could be improved...at least some of which are ideas that wouldn't cost a fortune...it would be great if they could be written down so people could read them and think them over.

lynnef
04-02-2010, 07:39 PM
I've seen the "Bike Lane Ends" sign, but I really had to look for it. The car dealership's banner almost completely blocks it.

I'm generally heading east at that point, so I go to the east end of Millikan Way and do the cyclo-cross thing behind the apartment building to Lombard. I really dislike that stretch of Hall.

As I do not live in Beaverton (city boundary is just below my back yard), I am not sure Mr. Kasho would consider it his job to pay me any mind...

wsbob
04-02-2010, 09:53 PM
I've seen the "Bike Lane Ends" sign, but I really had to look for it. The car dealership's banner almost completely blocks it.

I'm generally heading east at that point, so I go to the east end of Millikan Way and do the cyclo-cross thing behind the apartment building to Lombard. I really dislike that stretch of Hall.

As I do not live in Beaverton (city boundary is just below my back yard), I am not sure Mr. Kasho would consider it his job to pay me any mind...

Lynnef...I wouldn't think your living just outside Beaverton city limits would affect Mr. Khasho's appreciation for thoughts you might have about how the city could make traveling across it be more wonderful than it presently is ...;) . Commuters like yourself probably spend the occasional dollar or two at businesses, restaurants and entertainment. I'll bet all city employees are advised to encourage that ! Lots more of it ! On the phone, he seemed like enough of the 'down to earth' kind of guy that would welcome any constructive ideas people might have.

Maybe you purr-r-r-r a suggestion to him that it might be nice if the city could construct a promenade along the creek between Hall and Lombard to enable an easier, more efficient route for bike and pedestrian traffic to the transit center from Hall. That could help bike traffic get off the street sooner for people riding with that direction being their route. And also...then you wouldn't have to get mud in your cleats...:) .

Hey...well look here......His contact info at City Hall...:

Jabra Khasho, Public Works (503) 526-2221 jkhasho@ci.beaverton.or.us

wsbob
04-08-2010, 09:17 PM
As I'd been advised and encouraged to do so, by the people from the Beaverton Bicycle Advisory Committee regarding the Hall Blvd bike lane as it ends south of the light rail tracks...in addition to several other nearby and related issues...I called up the City Traffic Engineer Jabra Khasho to schedule a 'site visit' Fortunately for me, time was available on Mr. Khasho's schedule to visit the site today.

The short summary of the info gained from that visit is:


As I mentioned earlier from my previous phone call with Mr. Khasho...the best shot on the storm drain north of the light rail tracks is that it will likely continue to be a street surface drain, but the street crew will hopefully be able to grind the surrounding asphalt around the drain so as to make crossing over it by bike somewhat less abrupt. He says..'maybe better, maybe not'.


A clearer view of the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign by approaching road users will be enabled by removal of tree branches and the car dealers ad banners currently obscuring it. Mr. Khasho cautioned that designing a sign that wasn't already federally approved, such as 'Cars-Bikes Merge' was not a great option because it likely would involve a long approval process.

He also seemed to feel he could not encourage the idea of moving the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign further away from the point where the bike lane ends...in front of instead of in back of trees and other poles... in a move that seemed to me could further improve visibility, citing 'required distances' and so on.

Same thing with regards to ideas about redesigning the actual bike lane line itself (double striped with angle cross-stripes) so it could be made to taper as it approached the light rail crossing and the end of the bike lane, enabling a more advance notice of the bike lane end and thereby, a more natural, safer merge of car and bike traffic. Reason given: 'Not already approved...long process for design, submit design, approve design'. (So it looks like we'll have to be living with the bike lane line as it currently is.)



Mr. Khasho continued walking with me (I brought my bike...he can't ride due to disabilities) north to the storm drain, where I used my bike to show him first hand the close proximity of motor vehicle and bike traffic at that point on the road. I really do think he understands this is a problem, but as far as ideas about how to deal with it? No easy winners there.

At this point, I had just a couple more questions to address to Mr. Khasho. One had to do with what seemed to me to be improperly chosen creekside plantings that grow too tall and obscure the view south to rapidly approaching northbound Hall Blvd traffic. Departing from the Performance Bike shop strip mall parking lot is where this issue arises.

We walked to the driveway, standing right where a motor vehicle or bike would be positioned to prepare to enter Hall Blvd. It's spring, so these shrubs have not fully leafed out. As a result, visibility of cars down the road is mostly possible at this time of year. I worked to explain to Mr. Khasho that the shrubs get taller as spring and summer passes; before street crews can get out to reduce shrub height, road users often have to struggle with easily seeing approaching Hall Blvd traffic sufficiently in advance in order to afford a safe entrance onto the street.

I found it difficult to persuade Mr. Khasho that there is a problem here. He essentially said that standing in the driveway, he could see the cars fine. I protested saying, 'But Mr. Khasho...you're not in a car or on a bike attempting to see whether there's enough room in advance of swiftly approaching cars to move safely onto the street'.

So we walked south again, pausing mid-span on Beaveton's 'beautiful' Beaverton Creek Bridge. Looked at the shrubs growing on the north side of the creek bank: Big wild rose bushes 6-7 feet high already. Walked further to the south side of the bridge to look at the south creek bank. More rose bushes and a big plant called an Abelia. Compared to the north side, these had gone much longer without pruning. They also, as a result of this lack of pruning and Hall Blvd's bend in the road at this point, are more of a visibility problem than the plants on the north creek bank.

Mr. Khasho reflected that these plants were likely on private property...Damerow Ford property, and that 'code compliance' could be an effective way to get them reduced in size. Mr. Khasho's response to thoughts expressed about having the plants removed and replaced with lower scale plants that wouldn't need regular pruning (which would save wasting expensive taxpayer paid city employees time) to prevent them from obscuring road users visibility down Hall was 'Probably requires permits...money'.


Last item I brought up was the point Lynnef raised about Millikan east of Hall Blvd ending short of Lombard, how Millikan was a very useful street to bike travelers, and that the street's only disappointment is that the last couple hundred feet of it to Lombard is not paved. So people are doing the old 'cross-country' gambit across the apartment complex lawn. The beginning of a couple use paths are starting to appear.

Mr. Khasho's answer: Beaverton already has the right of way to Lombard. Problem, is that the Millikan street extension has to be designed to connect with a certain street....can't remember which he said...it's path cuts through apartment buildings currently standing. I said "What kind of time frame might we be talking about, Mr. Khasho, to get this thing completed?". I'm quoting this time: "Not in my lifetime." So lynn...looks like you're going to have to learn to enjoy your daily cross country routine for awhile to come.

Mr. Khasho is a very nice, knowledgeable city professional that welcomes hearing residents concerns about their city. He showed up on time for the appointment. After the meeting though, I was thinking 'What do we as citizens have to do to get a lot better level of improvement taking place in regards to problem infrastructure than looks like is going to come from this site visit? Drink some Tiger's Milk maybe?

Probably any of you could do a better job of getting something out of this visit than I did, but for me, it was well worth the time I invested. I'd say to you other folks out there with questions: Call this cat Jabra up...he's a good guy that tries!

K'Tesh
04-09-2010, 01:01 AM
After one of your recent posts about those rose bushes, I went out and pruned them down a little. I guess it kinda defeated the purpose of your trip out there.

I completely know what your talking about.

Nutz.
K'Tesh

wsbob
04-09-2010, 08:24 AM
K'tesh...don't worry about it. I think there was easily enough growth there for Mr. Khasho to...maybe a bit reluctantly...come to the realization that the shrubs do present a visibility problem. Especially as it was emphasized to him that this is just the beginning of the high growth period of the year.

Update: May 10th

Everyone keep their eye on the rose bushes....because this time of year, they're putting on lots of vertical growth. Any unauthorized trimming that certain parties of citizen persuasion...http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/innocent.gif....who will go nameless to protect the innocent well intentioned...may or may not have done, will likely soon be reversed by new growth. I'm really interested to see when the city gets its crew out there to bring them down to scale so road users leaving the Country Buffet parking lot (lots of other stores sharing it too..) have a clear view to oncoming Hall Blvd traffic, which they really should be able to see...in order to make a safe, stress free exit from that parking lot.

biciclero
04-09-2010, 12:29 PM
Why couldn't we add diagonal "merge" arrows to the tail end of a bike lane if it was going to go away? We see this all the time, especially in about-to-disappear highway lanes. This would be a clue not only for cyclists, but for motorists, who could see that the arrows in the bike lane were directing cyclists to merge into the next lane over.

wsbob
04-10-2010, 12:02 AM
Why couldn't we add diagonal "merge" arrows to the tail end of a bike lane if it was going to go away? We see this all the time, especially in about-to-disappear highway lanes. This would be a clue not only for cyclists, but for motorists, who could see that the arrows in the bike lane were directing cyclists to merge into the next lane over.

biciclero...are you thinking of some particular example, or do you have a picture of one that would fit in this particular section of Hall Blvd, or could be slightly redesigned to fit there and do the job of merging motor vehicle and car traffic safely and effectively? Post it if you do.

I believe I wrote in the account of our site visit, that I made an effort to suggest something like that to Mr. Khasho. He was quick to advise me that it wasn't necessary...because in his view, the roadway naturally merges motor vehicle and bike traffic by virtue of it narrowing over a short distance.

Well, some of the time, the road actually can naturally merge MV and bike traffic...as long as traffic is not temporarily halted by crossing gates for the light rail train. As long as bike traffic is in motion at a 15-20mph speed, when the bike lane ends, people on bikes can hand signal and move left into the main travel lane upon adequate notice that the bike lane is ending. When traffic is brought to a halt...bike traffic lacks sufficient distance and time to properly hand signal and move into the main travel lane, from the point of the light rail tracks to that of the upcoming storm drain.

For me and others that have ridden this section of Hall Blvd many times, the situation I've described might be readily understandable. For someone that has not ridden a bike there, it may be more difficult to get a sense that a problem exists.

Another cautionary note offered by Mr. K regarding the 'diagonal arrow merge line' suggestion: he said it wouldn't be a regulation street marking...would have to be submitted for approval... . Mr. Khasho is the traffic engineer, and he does seem knowledgeable about his field. I trust that he's likely correct, though it seems to me that a slight modification of the existing line might do the job. I don't think I have the software to do it, or I'd draw an example using the pics I took.

wsbob
04-12-2010, 10:59 AM
Last night and this morning, I played around with photo editing software (Adobe Elements), to see if I could better show one possible idea for improving the Hall Blvd Bike Lane through the the light rail crossing section of that street. Take a look ! http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Hall Blvd bike lane approaching Light Rail crossing showing 'Bike Lane Ends' sign in possible location for improved sign visibility that supports advance notice of bike ending. (http://picasaweb.google.com/111259046029235766422/HallBlvdBikeLaneApproachingLightRailCrossing#54593 21617460521186)

Spiffy
04-13-2010, 11:35 AM
Last night and this morning, I played around with photo editing software (Adobe Elements), to see if I could better show one possible idea for improving the Hall Blvd Bike Lane through the the light rail crossing section of that street. Take a look !

that's a good idea... put the bike lane warning on the same pole as the railroad warning... and shorten the bike lane to give more time for the bikes and cars to be in the same "lane" before it gets too narrow...

I also still like the idea of a "bikes on roadway" type of sign with a road-painted arrow directing bike traffic into the roadway... that would give motorists a better feel for bikes on the road... otherwise "bike lane ends" sort of means "good luck you poor bastards on bikes as you now have nowhere to ride" to a lot of motorists...

wsbob
04-15-2010, 11:32 PM
Spiffy...thanks for your thoughts on the situation! Keep in mind that the traffic engineer is obligated to have all signage and street markings generally either conform to MUTCD examples, or have departures from them for specific situations submitted and approved by...USDOT/Federal Highway Administration.

Download it here:

USDOT Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu47w0cRLKXsASktXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyanZuMjk 4BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0g1MzhfNzQ-/SIG=11ef9j57d/EXP=1271276400/**http%3a//mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/)

It's worth a look. Full color. Fairly easy to read. Useful to have around in case you're wondering what sign options are readily available to use.


"... otherwise "bike lane ends" sort of means "good luck you poor bastards on bikes as you now have nowhere to ride " to a lot of motorists... " Spiffy

No kidding. I think it says the same thing to the poor bastards on bikes. The realities of rules and regulations make it challenging for traffic engineers to readily correct such situations, but does this particular one really represent a challenge so great that the good thing it would accomplish would not be worth the likely, modest expense it would take to do?


Actually, through having driven and ridden on this section of road many times, plus having just stood at several points along it, watching how traffic movement functions through its changing widths and appearing/disappearing bike lane...I'd easily be inclined to give credit to the vast majority of road users for seemingly trying very hard to adjust for and allow for each others safe and efficient passage through it. Even so, because of the sometimes close proximity of motor vehicles to a bikes when both pass the storm grate parallel to each other, a dangerous situation exists.

Through this narrow section of the roadway, space for a narrow bike lane...say 2.5' to 3', that stays clear of the storm grate might created by reducing the width of the two, same direction main travel lanes. Doing this might amount to a substandard treatment that would require approval by state or federal DOT's, but for cities that understand and support the concept and promise of transportational biking, http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/ride.gif aren't efforts like this exactly what they should be making? Especially if the amount of materials and labor to apply the treatment are modest? I would like to think that Beaverton, Oregon is such a city. http://www.bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

lynnef
04-16-2010, 03:58 PM
a paragraph on the back side explaining each one... After some photo reconnaissance today (I knew there was a more suitable sign in Beaverton than that fading into the visual clutter white one... this is the email I sent off.

Hello Mr. Khasho,

First, thank you for the information on the owner of 115th Ave/McBride Place (email of Dec 7 2009). After some poking around on the internets and a few phone calls, I got to the business office and had a lovely conversation with them. And, a few weeks later, the bumps were painted! Not as well as the City would have done, perhaps, but they can be seen now. My groceries are no longer in danger of bouncing out of my panniers.

I understand you have been having a conversation and meetings with "wsbob" (that's his name on the BikePortland.org forums; I don't know his real name.) He encouraged me to contribute to the conversation regarding the merging bike lane on northbound Hall, just north of Millikan.

As a bicyclist, I have to say that is one of my least-preferred routes. I only stay on Hall if I am heading west, just because of that abruptly narrowing stretch of road with the sunken grate. Merging, sunken grate, no place to go if a car is coming up quickly from behind... nah, I don't go there. I turn east on Millikan, and cut behind the apartments and then proceed north on Lombard.

So, here's my input to the discussion on
1) the signage and merge on Hall. It is my understanding and learning from Drivers' Ed waaaay back in the day, that a yellow sign indicated caution, pay attention, etc. The sign on Hall is not yellow. It is the only sign of it's type that I have ever seen that is not yellow. Plus, it is blocked by the trees and car dealership banners. That whole area is visually very, very confusing and distracting - it is a wonder anyone sees any of the signs! However, a couple blocks over on Millikan Way, heading east through The Round, there is a different (yellow) sign when the bike lane does a very abrupt merge.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4526449533_68abfbb48f.jpg

Would it be possible to put a sign of that type on Hall, plus move it's placement out from all the visual clutter and distraction? As well as do something about that sunken grate? Really, those are awful hazards to cyclists, and it isn't always possible to swerve around them.

2) connection from Millikan to Lombard. I can see that a roadway would take some doing. And money, and time. However, the solution here, for EVERYONE but an automobile, is a paved path. There is a reasonable volume of both foot and bicycle traffic there daily; lots of folks getting to their destinations from the Beaverton Transit Center. What are the possibilities of a paved path? Portland certainly has many of these paved cut-throughs; there is ample precedent.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4526450273_7cc3bafc3e.jpg

Thank you much,
{me}

wsbob
04-17-2010, 02:23 PM
lynnef...nice work with your letter to Mr. Khasho including pictures http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif. (Hm-m-m... . Now if a few more people did the same ? http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon3.gif !) I really hope you get a positive response from him that you can share with everyone here. Can't think of why you wouldn't. The concerns you expressed to him were serious, civil and intelligent. I know from personal experience that Mr. Khasho seems to be a decent guy. We'll see what happens.

Interesting that you would mention that particular bike specific merge sign. For readers' benefit, this is a sign that east bound Millikan Way traffic approaches as it comes to the cross street Rose Biggi Ave. (the Biggi family owns a lot of acerage adjacent to The Round.). The bike lane ends for the next couple blocks as Millikan crosses the Hall-Watson couplet.

Buildings adjacent to Millikan in the block between Biggi and Watson are the newer and Beaverton's tallest...big concrete office building and parking garage. It's a busy place, but Millikan past it is very, very mellow compared to any of Beaverton's busier streets such as Cedar Hills Blvd, Canyon Rd, Beaverton Hillsdale Hwy, or the couplet.

A few comments about this sign:

I couldn't find it in the MUTCD. Maybe someone else can. If it's not in there, information about how the sign came to be, and how it came to be used in this location would be valuable.

I rode over to the site to check out the sign's placement in relation to the street for visibility by road users. This might just be my own personal perception, but to me, it seems that here is another example of a sign whose useful potential is not fully realized because of indiscriminate placement without consideration for interference by other objects that block its view by approaching road users.

Positioned, 100-150 feet away from the sign, it was very difficult to see this sign. This is partly because of sidewalk landscaping of trees spaced at intervals along the sidewalk, and lamposts (upon which the 'bike yield' graphic sign' is mounted) spaced exactly in the same line with them.

This kind of situation probably poses a challenge for persons responsible for making sure signs are placed where they can be clearly seen by road users. In the case of this sign, the lower branches of trees two and three back, have been removed, allowing a view to the sign through the lower branches of the first tree before the sign. This first trees lower limbs need to be cut back like the second and third have been, because they block visibilty of the sign quite a lot, and the tree hasn't even yet fully leafed out.

Even removing the lower branches of this that tree wouldn't probably do enough to make this sign visible. that's because the sign graphic is in line with too much visual junk in the distance leading up to the sign; the trunks of the trees.

It seemed to me that the answer, is to remove the sign from the convenient mounting place of the light pole, bring it forward of present position where there is an opening in the visual clutter. Drill a hole in the concrete, plant a pole, mount the sign. Standing there, I could visually pinpoint a location that looked as though it might improve visibility. A picture could be taken and photo edited to demonstrate this.

Also....the graphics of the sign itself might be beefed up a bit with slightly heavier lines to make it stand out better.


lynnef...nice pic too of the dirt path section of Millikan Way between Hall Blvd and Lombard Ave. Quite an interesting view considering this is Downtown Beaverton. I imagine volunteers would be happy to help out grading a bed for gravel and asphalt paving. I wondered what those materials would cost. $3000-$5000? Maybe someone reading, in the business would know. Not hard to figure out sq. ft. and get an estimate though. There's a certain amount of process and a little bit of engineering involved. Things like this shouldn't take forever to get done, especially when the need they'd serve is considerable.

lynnef
04-22-2010, 05:38 PM
When I talked to ďwsbobĒ I told him our maintenance crew will take a look at the catch basin to evaluate the potential of grinding the pavement around it. After the review by City crews, it was determined that raising the catch basin is possible and is a better option. The work to raise the catch basin will be scheduled in the near future.

The yellow bike lane end sign shown in the photo below is a diagrammatic option to the black and white ďBike Lane EndĒ sign that is currently posted on Hall Boulevard. We will work with the property owner on moving the banner to make sure the sign is not obscured.

The suggestion to pave a path from Millikan to Lombard is a good suggestion. The only issue is the property between the two streets is a private property and belongs to the apartments adjacent to it.

Sincerely,

Jabra Khasho

City Traffic Engineer

***** me again *****

Hmm. If Beaverton has the right of way through to Lombard (from Mr. Khasho's conversation with wsbob), you'd think they'd exercise it to make a path. I am pretty sure the apartment complex isn't going to do anything to improve that bit of ground :)

wsbob
04-22-2010, 10:13 PM
lynnef...great hearing that you've received a response from Mr. Khasho, and that you've reported on it here in the forums. Hearing that the catch basin (storm grate, as I've been referring to it) can and will be raised is good news.

Seems to me that'll be far better than any improvement a pavement grind to the low depression the...catch basin...currently is located in, could have accomplished. I can't remember what the actual grate on the catch basin is at present. (Hopefully, it's one that's smooth to ride over, and not one of the older ones that's been improvised with welded over metal strips; good, because they eliminate the danger of bike tires slipping into the grates' slots, but not so good because they're bumpy to ride over.)

A raised catch basin is an acceptable compromise to a curb drain. Installing one of them would have been more a lot more complicated, and probably a whole lot more money.

Glad to hear Mr. Khasho comment about the 'diagrammatic' bike lane ends sign that you included a picture of in your email to him. I guess I still have some thought that moving the sign further back from the light rail crossing...to allow bike traffic advance notice to prepare to merge into the main travel lane in preparation for bypassing the catch basin...might be worth considering.

Though, if raising the catch basin makes it safe and comfortable to ride over, that could ease the tension through that section enough, so that the sign can do its job where it's currently at.


It's great to hear Mr. Khasho still has the dealers banner on his list.



And hopefully, the dealers large wild rose bush (mr. K advised me it might be theirs) planted on the creek bank, which obscures the view south, to northbound traffic for people trying to safely get out of the parking lot south entrance/exit for Country Buffet, Magnolia Hi-Fi, Performance Bike shop, and a number of other businesses


It's encouraging that Mr. Khasho's thought your idea of paving a path from Millikan to Lombard is a good suggestion. I wonder if he has any ideas about how to proceed with handling the issue of the land being private property. I imagine the city attorney has to do the diplomatic work here: 'Say...the city has a great idea... ;) that would make it easier for everyone in this building that bikes, to access the fine riding street, Millikan...'.

It seems to me now, that when there for the site visit, I should have taken a little more time and asked Mr. Khasho further about what would be required to have a simple, paved path put in there. We should be asking him for more details. I don't think he'll mind.

Seems to me that a well designed, well built, low cost, asphalt or concrete path...10'-12' wide would be a real community builder. Certainly better than the dirt use path running through there now. I like dirt footpaths well enough, but this one somehow doesn't put the neighborhood in its best light.

lynnef...nice work ! http://www.bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

wsbob
04-24-2010, 10:06 PM
Did a site visit by myself today, to take pictures of the catch basin/storm grate, before it gets upgraded. Was pleased to observe that tree limbs and dealership banners obscuring visibility of the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign from road users approaching it, have been removed.

I'm hoping to be able to take some decent photos to provide 'after' shots readers can compare with the ones visible online via the link in the previous post. I'm thinking though, that road users, bike traffic in particular, will notice a big difference due to these simple changes. I'd encourage people that ride this section of Hall Blvd, to share your thoughts about them here.

Nice work on the part of Beaverton City Traffic engineer Mr. Jabra Khasho, the city street crew, lynnef, and anyone else I'm not aware of that may have had a hand in correcting problems at this site.

So now, it looks like just the catch basin to put right. And possibly, for people leaving the strip mall driveway up the street, some attention to lowering the height of the wild rose bushes along the creek bank.

K'Tesh
04-27-2010, 08:45 PM
I'd love to see the before and after pictures, or just the after pictures.

(FYI: I'm trying to post in each forum to eliminate the deleted porn spammer post)

wsbob
05-10-2010, 12:40 AM
Related to the improved visibility of the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign amidst the branches and auto dealer banners...even though the sign was clearly less obscured by the dealer banners, there was something puzzling to me about how it was accomplished.
I actually physically went to the site and looked at the bike sign pole and the poles the dealer banners were attached to. Couldn't see any noticeable traces that that the ground had been disturbed. http://vcca.org/forum/images/graemlins/default/ideanot.gif The dealer banners seemed to be in their original locations, but it was hard for me to tell for sure, even after looking at the photos I took; (As it turned out, I wasn't paying enough attention to the small details). One thing was certain though: in the 'Before' photos, the dealer banner definitely overlapped the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign. In the 'After' photos, it didn't.

So how did they do it? Tonight, I again looked at the photos I took, and finally figured it out. Comparing photos #12 and #18 in the Picasa web album I've posted the photos to, I was able to see that the Beaverton street crew had physically relocated the 'Bike Lane Ends' sign about a foot away from and slightly forward of the dealer banner, bringing it closer to the sidewalk, thus affording road users the unobstructed view of the sign that exists now that this work has been done. In fact, bolts now actually attach a bracket that supports the sign...to the sidewalk itself. Look closely at the base of the sign in each picture and it's possible to tell. Before, the sign pole was planted where bark-dust completely surrounded it.

So I guess it was easier and more effective to do it this way than to try get the dealer to remove his ad banner. (I just hope he doesn't replace the old banner with a bigger banner that obscures the bike lane sign again!)

See and compare the pics mentioned...see the whole selection http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif (http://picasaweb.google.com/111259046029235766422/HallBlvdBikeLaneApproachingLightRailCrossing#)


I'm deciding when to call the city public works and ask them when when the Hall Blvd catch basin might be scheduled for improvement by the street crew. Got a name from Mr. Khasho....Terry Priest.

Meanwhile, I'm interested in lynnef's idea of improving the dirt use path betweeen where Millikan Way currently ends and Lombard to the east. Beaverton City Traffic Engineer Jabra Khasho mentioned that the property the use path crosses, and which a city road may eventually pass over, is private property.

On the property maps Portland makes available to online viewers, I believe I've pinpointed the property in question....4125 SW LOMBARD AVE. Here's the link to the map of it:

Portland maps display of 4125 SW LOMBARD AVE property in Beaverton (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=summary&propertyid=W295100&address_id=921726&x=7611744.502&y=673083.039&state_id=1S115BB00504&site_name=4125%20SW%20LOMBARD%20AVE&city=BEAVERTON&ResultCount=1)

You'll notice that the graphic map indicates Millikan Way running straight through to Lombard Ave. ...which, as a paved surface, it does not do at present. If you'd like, navigate to and look at the graphic map, click on Google Earth in the row of links at the top right side of your screen for the aerial photo view, which will show you exactly where Millikan Way currently ends, as well as 'ye ol' dirt path'. Below, are snapshots of the Google views I particularly had in mind.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_n9hUsKEqnng/S_md3l3s7JI/AAAAAAAAAOY/qD54rAG2JC4/s912/Google%20Earth%20image%20of%20uncompleted%20sectio n%20of%20Millikan%20Way.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_n9hUsKEqnng/S_oDSmbeoKI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/gdkqIZO-2aE/s912/Google%20Earth%20image%20of%20uncompleted%20sectio n%20of%20Millikan%20Way%20zoom%20in.jpg

Completion of Millikan Way across this property to Lombard Ave for pedestrian-bike transportation access, would be appealing in a number of ways:


The apartment owner and residents would see the unappealing dirt path replaced with a better looking surface, laid out further from the apt complex.
People would be encouraged to travel by bike and walk with the provision of this east-west route from the transit center all the way to Cedar Hills Blvd that would be quieter, more beautiful, and safer for these modes of travel than the far busier Canyon Rd.
Extending Millikan to Lombard would mean that transit center bound and beyond bike traffic would be less inclined to take the narrow, non-continuous bike lane along Hall Blvd for the round-a-bout route via Center St.

Note that the taco truck is shown near the entrance to the apartment complex parking lot where it usually is if you go by there. Snack time!

wsbob
08-18-2010, 09:41 AM
Re; comment #20, above, about possibly extending Millikan Way for bike and pedestrian traffic only, through the section shown in the picture above, I've been putting off talking to a city official about what might be done to have that happen. :rolleyes:

Back to the correction of a few small but important (hopefully, to more people than myself), issues on Hall Blvd between Canyon Rd and Cedar Hills Blvd that I've devoted this thread to. Reading back a few comments, you'll note that weeks ago, the 'bike lane ends' sign was moved out to where it was more visible to road users. A bigger project that remains to be completed, is raising to street level, the catch basin just north of the light rail tracks. It's been on the schedule for weeks, months really, but being a lower priority job, it just takes time to get around to such things.

About when it might be repaired, yesterday, I emailed an employee with the city's public works. Here's the response I got this morning:

(start)

We looked at having a contactor do the work along with other structures that could use some repair. I believe he is going to let us know his price this week. If we donít use him, we will schedule to repair right away.

Kevin Azar

(end)


Looks like it could be awhile yet before the grate is actually raised, but it seems to be moving forward. http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Maybe next, we could get the bushes on the creek bank whacked down to enable visibility of oncoming traffic for people trying to leave the parking area of the strip mall where Performance Bike is located. Currently, while positioned at the ramp leading into the street, and looking up the street, at this stage of the shrub's growth, it's possible, but rather difficult to see oncoming traffic through a small notch in the foliage.

lynnef
08-18-2010, 09:42 PM
wsbob - The bike/ped path connecting Millikan w/Lombard - you and I are not the only ones interested in this. At the Westside advocacy meeting a couple weeks ago (hoped to see you there), two others raised the subject - Bruce Buffington of the NW Bicycle Safety Council and Mike Lilly (don't know if he was representing anyone other than himself). Perhaps we should coordinate?

wsbob
08-18-2010, 11:24 PM
wsbob - The bike/ped path connecting Millikan w/Lombard - you and I are not the only ones interested in this. At the Westside advocacy meeting a couple weeks ago (hoped to see you there), two others raised the subject - Bruce Buffington of the NW Bicycle Safety Council and Mike Lilly (don't know if he was representing anyone other than himself). Perhaps we should coordinate?


lynnef...glad to hear that. Guess I don't know what the Westside advocacy meeting is. I did a search and nothing came right up...post a link if it's handy. Maybe you're thinking of the Westside Transportation Alliance? Sure, keep me posted if you've more thoughts about coordinating something related to this. Can't claim to know much, or anything...about coordinating, but I'm open to good ideas about it. I've been figuring that the first thing for me to do is just pick an official from developmental services or some other commission/bureau, and just ask them. Just haven't done it yet. Maybe you all have a better idea.

For bike travel more accessible to less aggressive riders, I would think that being able to use such an extension to get over to Lombard via Millikan Way would be very compelling, especially since Hall Blvd in this area is, and for some time to come will likely be, a dicey road to travel on by bike. From a connectivity standpoint, I believe Mayor Doyle and Councilor Bode would appreciate that (I recall both of them having spoken of the importance of connectivity.).

I remember Beav traffic engineer Jabra Khasho saying the eventual plan was that the extension accommodate motor vehicle traffic...in a distant time...far, far away... . For now and for the foreseeable future, as far as I'm concerned, limited to pedestrian and bike traffic would be preferable. Both pedestrian and bike traffic would benefit from east-west routes that let them get off motor vehicle heavy thoroughfares such as Canyon, Beaverton-Hillsdale, and Farmington type roads, when possible.

lynnef
08-19-2010, 04:51 PM
I've just started a new job, but I'll get around to contacting all the interested parties. Just not immediately. It might be awhile...

wsbob
08-20-2010, 12:54 AM
I've just started a new job, but I'll get around to contacting all the interested parties. Just not immediately. It might be awhile...

New job...hmmm http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif, one you like, I hope!

Sure, see if the people you know have some ideas they think are worth pursuing, that might help produce an improvement there that's doable. I realize that something like the project we have in mind is one those things some people could easily feel would snowball into a big legalistic, expensive, drawn out endeavor (easements, eco impact studies, surveying, designing, engineering, materials, construction, blah-blah-blah).

Too bad if that happened, when probably 10-20 people with shovels, hoes, rakes, and gravel could maybe prep a simple path bed for a gravel base with an asphalt surface, maybe concrete. Fun to think about. Realistically, I'm aware that even a simple approach to making such an extension would be involved. Another thing, is that the apartments might require a screen fence separating some of their building's property from the path. This section of land is on the back side of the apartment building. As the informal path it is now, it's all loose and easy going, but may not be if it were to become an official public path. There are some public paths not far away along the creek that have such fences.

Nice to have probably, but realistically know how ideas of lighting, landscaping, watering system for the landscaping would likely effect an idea like this. Maybe the others will have some thoughts about how to manage a proposal for the best chance of having it fly.

wsbob
01-11-2011, 12:43 AM
Hey people... . Did I forget about the Hall Blvd storm grate that's set low into the road surface just north of the light rail tracks? The very grate I've written about in some detail in earlier posts to this thread, and about which I've also written to Beaverton City officials, thinking the possibility might exist that the grate can be lifted somewhat closer to the grade of the surrounding pavement, so all cyclists can ride over it without a big, body banging, wheel jolting lurch?

Well no...I have not. Took a bit of prompting, but after waiting nearly 6 months, I decided it was time to drop the city a line to see what if anything, is cookin' on this deal. A good man with the City of Beaverton Public Works, Sanitary / Storm Maintenance Lead, Kevin Azar, has been assigned the task of resetting the storm drain on Hall Blvd that I've been targeting for work, along with some others that have been identified as needing work as well. Here's excerpts from his latest email to me:

"Hi Darrell,

Iím very sorry I havenít responded lately, but we have been in negotiations with a company that worked for the City and has does this type of work, but recently we came to a decision that they were asking too much for the extent of work we asked for. This drug out for longer than expected, but I now have the direction I will need to go. Iím meeting with my manager to discuss the possibility of bidding out this work to another contractor or move ahead in-house. We do have more of this type of work to be performed around the city and Iím trying to get a- lump sum price to help cut costs and not interfere with our daily maintenance activities. Our construction section has been busy working on a sewer replacement project, and will soon be freed up for some repair work hopefully within 4-5 weeks. I can let you know what the outcome of the discussion is, and should be able to better answer the timeline it will take. This is the busiest time of the year for our crew, with the maintenance activities and flooding thatís been happening, and usually schedule this for the better weather timeís. Again, Iím sorry this has been delayed for this long and we should be able to get this and the other issues resolved at a reasonable time and at a minimal cost to the City.

Kevin Azar
Sanitary / Storm Maintenance Lead
City of Beaverton Public Works


I wrote Kevin back saying I would very much like to hear of when the work on the grate(s) is scheduled. When I do, I'll report back to all of you reading here. Don't give up! Eventually, you'll be able to make your trip by bike on Hall Bvd to the myriad attractions of Cedar Hills Crossing...New Seasons...Winco...Best Buy...a huge, multi-screen cinema...Old Navy...and a bunch of other stuff I can't even remember off the top of my head...with less fear of being motor vehicle smooshed while trying to get around the badly set storm grates.

wsbob
06-01-2011, 10:01 PM
Well! Got to say...I'd almost given up all hope that the low set Hall Blvd catch basin (which is directly in the path of the very narrow width of street upon which much of Hall Blvd's bike traffic here is likely to get channeled to.) just north of the light rail tracks, would ever be raised to a level that's more practical for bikes to roll over smoothly at speed.

Through a number of communications with Beaverton planning and Public Works officials, I'd been told that the catch basin in question had been added to a list of other street problems that would be addressed at some point. The answer to the question of 'when?', was very elusive.

To even get the catch basin on the list for repair, I had to meet up with the city's main planner to take a look at the catch basin first hand, and to explain the situation from the perspective of a person riding a bike. Interesting outcome of that meeting was, that the planner, though agreeing that the storm grate was "... a little low..", was not readily agreed that it was significantly bad enough to justify a very good repair (the planner does not, cannot ride a bike.).

The planner suggested the repair would likely be a simple tapering with a grinder, of the road surface surrounding the catch basin, to make a more gentle transition from the road surface to the top of the catch basin. Fortunately, on a later date (I wasn't present.), the planner had the road crew supervisor come out to take a look. The super said 'there's a better way'. Hurray!!

Winding up the story:

Roll up to the catch basin tonight about 8pm...what's that ahead where the catch basin is located? Orange cones, forms for retaining concrete, or asphalt, or something. Work is not finished, but definitely looks as though the catch basin is being worked on. Beaverton at Hall Blvd is close to becoming a little easier and safer for people traveling by bike. Took more than a year to bring this about, but it's something.

Should get pics of the work in progress...not sure I'll get around to it. I'd certainly welcome anyone passing by that has a camera, to pause a moment, take some snaps and post them. http://bikeportland.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

dmc
06-02-2011, 02:14 AM
Thats awesome wsbob!

We must all understand where the City's Planner is coming from when they cannot give you a direct answer on the spot. Their comments are being recorded and quoted without backing and advisement from their colleagues.

Seems to me that an experienced professional examined the area and recommended his advice to the diplomatic individuals in charge.

One thing Bikeportland.org is teaching me is to be more involved.

wsbob
06-02-2011, 10:41 AM
Thats awesome wsbob!

We must all understand where the City's Planner is coming from when they cannot give you a direct answer on the spot. Their comments are being recorded and quoted without backing and advisement from their colleagues.

Seems to me that an experienced professional examined the area and recommended his advice to the diplomatic individuals in charge.

One thing Bikeportland.org is teaching me is to be more involved.

DMC..., you got it. Relative to a big metropolis like Portland, Beaverton isn't a very big city, but it still has bureaucratic structure, chain of command, protocol issues to contend with as part of getting anything done. I think that's right that city officials...I'll say...good city officials...want to be careful not to make rash judgments and wind up doing some stupid thing that wastes a bunch of taxpayer money.

Every Beaverton city official I talked with was decent and responsive. That includes planners Margaret Middleton and Jabra Kasho, public works guys Terry Priest and Kevin Azar. The citizen volunteers on the Beaverton Bike Advisory Committee were very receptive and supportive too. (The BBAC is where I went first to get directions on how to proceed with the issue.)

Those of us that are citizen residents-road users though....(I suppose that includes about everybody in some form or another.); we have a tendency, when we see something that needs being worked on, to want to have it done Now!, which often doesn't, or can't happen, as in the case of this particular catch basin. The city officials were basically fine. It's just that the vehicle they're part of can only go so fast.

I hope that regular citizens out here in Beaverton will pay more attention than they may currently be, to the effectiveness of certain key street routes likely to be used for travel by bike. These street routes aren't that hard to pick out, either by physically riding them, or checking out maps.

Since the number of people that ride in Beaverton is still comparatively small; both to the number that travel by motor vehicle, or even to the number of people that travel by bike on certain key Portland bike routes...I think a lot of the problems for bikes on these routes just may never even be brought up to officials with the city. That can result in bad riding conditions on the affected streets sometimes going on and on and on. Partly from this comes the 'Too dangerous to ride a bike on the street.' common public phobia about traveling by bike.

So yes...everybody: If you see some street problem affecting travel by bike, that you think needs attention, take note of it. Think through what you see to be the problem, and what you consider may be possible solutions to the problem. Write that down. Take what you've got to someone with the city. Be respectful, congenial, but firm. Expect to have to be patient.

wsbob
06-28-2011, 10:25 PM
In this comment, I'm going to post before and after pics (sorry...this website's quirks won't let unregistered viewers see them.) of the storm grate that was raised from an abruptly low position relative to the roadway grade, to a position level with the roadway grade.

At the first post of this thread, I believe I've posted a link to the picasa web album where the full series of Hall St Bike Lane at the Light Rail Crossing pics can be seen, including these most recent pics.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lvr6vPX4BxM/S-ECg4SkZVI/AAAAAAAAAMA/mwTjsdXOkLc/s1024/DSC_0027.JPG This pic shows the storm grate before being raised to street grade. Note the abruptly descending lip.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Lm_lbcom-Us/Tgq00QWPz4I/AAAAAAAAAXk/kMepjeAjOuk/s912/DSCF1813.JPG The storm grate, now raised, allowing bike traffic to roll over it without a major jarring result.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1Wlk05BSTNo/Tgq1C-wbWaI/AAAAAAAAAXo/88MWXDbOe88/s640/DSCF1815.JPG The person on the bike's position on the roadway relative to the storm grate and the main travel provides a fairly good illustration of why this improvement was important.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vacNBo3wNVY/Tgq1QcfULHI/AAAAAAAAAXs/de76rb3Celc/s640/DSCF1811.JPG

This picture shows the amount of main travel lane roadway width bike traffic has available to ride within when motor vehicles are next to them. There isn't actually a bike lane at this point on Hall Blvd. Bike traffic is entitled to take the lane, but circumstances unique to this stretch of Hall (read earlier comments to learn more about this.) result in bike traffic sometimes being stuck in this narrow section far to the right of the road; thus the need for a storm grate that doesn't pose a danger in crossing over it. Link to the entire series of pics online: Hall Blvd bike lane approaching Light Rail crossing/picasa web/wsbob (https://picasaweb.google.com/111259046029235766422/HallBlvdBikeLaneApproachingLightRailCrossing)