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bikieboy
12-03-2009, 09:35 AM
greetings westside cyclists -- Iím starting in on updating the City of Portland bike map, and thought Iíd ask if there are any suggestions for revisions/additions/corrections, etc. needed for the west Portland / Beaverton area (or any part of the map, for that matter).

You can contact me directly (see below info), or post here and i'll check back.

Hereís the link to the Beaverton inset map:
http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=189749

& the PBoT overall bike map page, which has the legend:
http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=34809&a=181308

At this point Iím aiming to have all changes to our graphic artist by the end of February. Thanks for your help -

Jeff Smith
City of Portland Bureau of Transportation
Transportation Options
1120 SW 5th - suite 800 - Portland, OR 97204
jeff.smith@pdxtrans.org
503.823.7083
www.GettingAroundPortland.org

wsbob
12-03-2009, 10:56 AM
This must be the map titled Portland By Bicycle, approx dimensions: 19" by 27".

Pretty good map for the most part, including the Beaverton section of the map. If the Beaverton map could switch its square area on the map for the longer, rectangular area allotted to the maps 'Resources' section, then it might be able to show Aloha in its coverage at the maps present, relatively easy to use scale. Including some of Tigard would be good too, but I don't see any easy, practical way that could be done.

Really, the Westside needs a separate map the size of the Portland By Bicycle map taking in as much as possible of the area west of the Sylvan ridge.

Haven_kd7yct
12-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Jeff, you should contact Mike McCarthy at the city of Tigard about all the work we've been doing over the summer/fall about a City of Tigard bikey map. He can help you out as far as revisions/additions/whatevers.

I would say that your map at the least needs to include more of the outlying areas that people come from/go to. The City of Portland is not an island or a castle surrounded by a moat! All roads are connected to somewhere.

At the very least, reference where people can get more information about the cities they have entered so they can get informed.

Maybe include more of the major bike routes to/from the 'burbs outside the city of Portland? Go SOUTHER on the main map!!

Just some ideas.... :)

zpl
12-03-2009, 03:08 PM
Maybe include more of the major bike routes to/from the 'burbs outside the city of Portland?

I would be *very* interested if the bike maps had specific route recommendations on the best way to get from Portland to Beaverton, Portland to Hillsboro, etc. Make some sensible assumptions about the start and end points and show the safest way to get there.

I would definitely ride more often West of Portland if I felt more confident in picking a route. Bycycle.org is may main resource but I have no idea whether it is directing me to a high-traffic street because there are no other options.

Finally, thanks for the work that you do - these maps are like gold to cyclists like myself. I rely on them regularly, having only lived in the area for about a year now.

Scott

lynnef
12-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Here is what I sent to Jeff. If this helps any of you navigate around, that's good :)

Here are a couple of my preferred routes -
Dropping down to Canyon from the Sunset MUP or going back up. My preferred route:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3352443

You also see that this route gives access to SW Cabot, which crosses over Hwy 217 and dumps onto SW Center, etc...

For EZ access to the Beaverton Fred Meyer, I take SW McBridge Place (THIS IS A CORRECTION), rather than SW 117th, which dumps me right across Canyon into Freddies. There is even a traffic light, making crossing SW Canyon easy. Unpainted nasty speed bumps, though.

Further west, the map cuts off the important Cornell-SW 158th connection. When heading east, turning left onto SW 158th, then immediately left onto NW Waterhouse. At that point one can get into Tualatin Hills Park and Rec and off the main roads. I always have an internal mental relaxation when I make that turn, heading eastward toward home.

Also, not documented, possibly because it goes through parking lots, heading south on SW 107th, cross Beaverton-Hillsdale, wander among the buildings, and pop out on SW 5th.

You probably can't show this one either, but, heading south on SW Lombard (right where the map goes all dotted red), you can get over to SW Millikan by going off-road behind the apartment building just south of the bridge over the creek. There is a nice path worn in the grass :) I love it. EZ access to Bike Gallery for me!

SW Hocken to SW Center - while a private road through the Cedar Hills Crossing shopping center, is pretty decent, even though there is a lot of traffic. They can't be in a hurry there.

What I myself would like is a Metro map, rather than a Portland map. All this geographic divisions make getting from point a to point b interesting, sometimes. But I'm glad you have the Oregon Electric Trail entrance marked. I can never find it on my own!

wsbob
12-03-2009, 05:05 PM
I believe the route between Walker Rd and the start of the Sunset MUP that's shown on the gmap cited by lynnef is better in some respects than the route between the Sunset MUP and Canyon Rd (uses Scenic Rd and Garden View Rd)shown on the Portland By Bicycle map; it's less steep and does do a better job of connecting with Central Beaverton/Beav Town Sq Freds. Actually, by bike, I think this route is likely also better for people wanting to go to Cedar Hills Crossing (groceries, electronics, books, cinema). It avoids busy Walker Rd and Cedar Hills Blvd.

Note also on the Portland By Bicycle map that another of the streets indicated as generally connecting with the Sunset MUP...Roxbury, is very steep going to the MUP. People might appreciate the map having some of those 'climb' arrows on the route using that street.

My own preferred route traveling west from Sylvan to Beaverton is Raab Rd and Canyon Drive on the south side of Hwy 26. Part of this route, from Scholls Ferry Rd to West Slope is shown on the larger side of the Portland By Bicycle map. For me, fast traveling Canyon Rd from West Slope to Walker Rd isn't quite so much fun though...to climb or descend.

Haven_kd7yct
12-04-2009, 12:40 PM
Thought of another thing, sparked by something WSBob said...

Indicate steepness of hills with one, two, or three chevrons pointing the direction of "up".

Too often, I'll look at the Portland bike map and not know that a route I've chosen is maximum hilly-- especially if I'm not familiar with the particular area.

And sometimes, that keeps me from expanding my horizons, so to speak.

q`Tzal
12-04-2009, 03:46 PM
+1 on simple, minimal, indications of incline.

I love maps but colored contour maps are not very readable under all the streets. I think the Bike There! map from 2002 had elevation color contoured in; it was removed. Realistically, with all the other color coding, it was difficult to convey all the incline info anyways.

USGS style topographic maps provide the needed information but the density of map symbology makes them some of the most difficult for the average person to use.

Easy, easy, easy. This map is for people that want the easy route not people looking to ride De Ronde van Oeste Portlandia (http://bikeportland.org/2009/04/04/massive-turnout-at-de-ronde/).

RonC
12-04-2009, 04:55 PM
I think a short "difficult connection" designation could be added from the north end of Erickson, down Farmington a long block to Hocken. I've used that route frequently in the past.

wsbob
12-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Just a note: some of you reading may or may not realize that the 'Portland By Bicycle' map being discussed does already use 'steep hill' arrows. I called them 'climb arrows' in the earlier post...I should have checked the map legend to get the correct term the first time.

The arrows are a little inconspicuous. Not to say they should be bigger or smaller than they are presently, but some people looking at the map might not realize right off(I didn't!) that they actually indicate steep hills or a climb. Actually now that I think about it, I prefer the term 'climb' rather than 'steep'. There's something psychologically more uplifting about it.

I don't know how much this map costs to produce, but it would be great if municipalities on the west side could get together to produce a map that would represent the west side on the bigger side of a map with the dimensions of the 'Portland By Bicycle' map. The bigger size would allow for more street names, maybe better elevation info, and so on. It's important though, not to allow the map to become hard to read as Q`ztal refers to...because of putting to much info or detail into the map.

Ron C...looked at the map regarding the route you suggest. I'm guessing it's not already indicated because it's probably not advisable to be having people try to make left turns on busy Farmington Rd. Of course, it's not busy at all hours of the day... .

RonC
12-05-2009, 08:59 AM
Ron C...looked at the map regarding the route you suggest. I'm guessing it's not already indicated because it's probably not advisable to be having people try to make left turns on busy Farmington Rd. Of course, it's not busy at all hours of the day... .

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I've only ridden that stretch in the evenings and weekends, so you may know better. However, the definition of "Difficult Connection" per the legend is "In areas with higher speeds and/or volumes, combined with narrow lane widths or other problems for cyclists." That seems to pretty much hits the nail on the head for that stretch. There are turn lanes and lights at each end of that Farmington section, and its a four-lane road so that cyclists can take a lane for a block (if necessary) and still not totally impede higher speed traffic. It's not a mellow stretch to ride, but on the other hand it's not THAT difficult. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. between 91st and 103rd can be designated a "Difficult Connection", or Canyon Rd. in front of Bike Gallery, I see no reason not to bridge the short gap between Erickson and Hocken with a similar designation.

wsbob
12-05-2009, 09:18 AM
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I've only ridden that stretch in the evenings and weekends, so you may know better. However, the definition of "Difficult Connection" per the legend is "In areas with higher speeds and/or volumes, combined with narrow lane widths or other problems for cyclists." That seems to pretty much hits the nail on the head for that stretch. There are turn lanes and lights at each end of that Farmington section, and its a four-lane road so that cyclists can take a lane for a block (if necessary) and still not totally impede higher speed traffic. It's not a mellow stretch to ride, but on the other hand it's not THAT difficult. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. between 91st and 103rd can be designated a "Difficult Connection", or Canyon Rd. in front of Bike Gallery, I see no reason not to bridge the short gap between Erickson and Hocken with a similar designation.

Ron...I've never said I was quick to pick up on details! Reading your post was kind of a 'duh' :confused: moment for me, because somehow, I hadn't earlier noticed the 'difficult connection' entry in the legend area of the map. Having now done that, I agree with you that designating "...the north end of Erickson, down Farmington a long block to Hocken..." on the map as an advised route using the maps 'difficult connection' dotted red line is a good idea. ;)

RonC
12-05-2009, 09:51 AM
Ron...I've never said I was quick to pick up on details! Reading your post was kind of a 'duh' :confused: moment for me, because somehow, I hadn't earlier noticed the 'difficult connection' entry in the legend area of the map.

Hey Bob. Thanks for the nice message. Sometimes it seems like my life is simply bridging 'duh' moments with difficult connections.:)

hemp22
12-07-2009, 07:53 AM
It's great that this is being updated again.

Here are my 2 cents:
First - the Beaverton map should be expanded - to the west & to the north - it should at least go out west as far as Tanasbourne. Beaverton does go all the way west to 185th, after all. On the north side, it would be good to have more of Cornell Rd and some of the frontage roads that parallel Hwy 26.

Second - some minor recommendations:
- Mark the brief narrow section of Canyon Rd between 173rd and 185th as Difficult Connection.
- Mark Terman Rd. (between Murray & Millikan/Hocken as a low-traffic shared roadway. It's a nice way to from southbound Murray ave. to Eastbound, without doing a box-turn or merging across 2 lanes.
- Update the funky section where the new WES line crosses Canyon & Farmington at Lombard (that place is kind of a cluster now, but at least there's more bike lane now)
- Walker Rd between Cedar Hills and 123rd shouldn't be a "difficult connection" in my opinion - There's a bike lane / wide shoulder - the difficult connection should start east of 123rd.
- On the main portland map, it would be great if it also went a little further west.
- it's worth noting that there's a good low-traffic connection between Pointer Rd and Rabb on the south side of 26. (cross Canyon Rd at Canyon Dr).

wsbob
12-07-2009, 09:59 AM
It's great that this is being updated again.

Here are my 2 cents:
First - the Beaverton map should be expanded - to the west & to the north - it should at least go out west as far as Tanasbourne. Beaverton does go all the way west to 185th, after all. On the north side, it would be good to have more of Cornell Rd and some of the frontage roads that parallel Hwy 26.

Second - some minor recommendations:
- Mark the brief narrow section of Canyon Rd between 173rd and 185th as Difficult Connection.
- Mark Terman Rd. (between Murray & Millikan/Hocken as a low-traffic shared roadway. It's a nice way to from southbound Murray ave. to Eastbound, without doing a box-turn or merging across 2 lanes.
- Update the funky section where the new WES line crosses Canyon & Farmington at Lombard (that place is kind of a cluster now, but at least there's more bike lane now)
- Walker Rd between Cedar Hills and 123rd shouldn't be a "difficult connection" in my opinion - There's a bike lane / wide shoulder - the difficult connection should start east of 123rd.
- On the main portland map, it would be great if it also went a little further west.
- it's worth noting that there's a good low-traffic connection between Pointer Rd and Rabb on the south side of 26. (cross Canyon Rd at Canyon Dr).

hemp...expanding the area of westside that the map covers sounds like a good idea...others commenting here have said so also. How would you suggest doing that? By increasing the dimensions of the map? By changing the map's scale so that more area fits into given dimensions?

Personally, I find the present scale to be about right for ease of use; smaller seems like it might cause some secondary streets to be hard to make out. On that note, actually, I just noticed that secondary streets are rendered on the map in a rather light gray color; perhaps if that color were a little darker or a little bolder, they might be easier to make out; If more secondary streets could be labeled without making the map overly congested with detail, that might also help.

It seems to me that putting more area into this maps present dimensions would make it harder to read. Others might not think so though. The dimensions of the map could probably be increased. That could effect its ease of handling and packing it on the bike. Probably would cost something more to produce.

As I said earlier, it could be great if the Westside communities could come up with their own map. Doesn't even need to be free...a buck or two...would be o.k. Too many outfits want to charge $6-$7 for a simple map.

lynnef
12-07-2009, 10:41 AM
There already does exist a Washington County bike map. I've got one.

bikieboy
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Westsiders --- I really appreciate your thoughtful suggestions on this, as well as your on-the-ground cycling expertise. Keep 'em coming. I haven't had the time to sort through all the routing/designation suggestions, but I will over the next few weeks. Getting the details right is coin of the realm for any cycling map, so thank you in advance for your attention to these fine points of navigation by bike.

Let me try to respond to a few of the suggestions that you all have raised - a number of folks commented on the need to expand the area of the map (farther west to Aloha, south towards Tigard). As someone who absolutely loves mapping, and bicycling, I couldn't agree more -- jurisdictional boundaries are absolutely meaningless to a cyclist trying to navigate with a map. That was my justification for finding space for adding a Beaverton inset last year. However, since i work for the City of Portland, it's increasing hard for me to make the case the further i stray beyond the borders of the city of Portland proper. We've already pared way down on the non-map resources/info to make room for Vancouver and Beaverton insets, and some of that info is about where to obtain other area bike maps.

Also, the Metro "Bike There" map (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=218)covers these areas (west to Hillsboro/Forest Grove south to Tualatin/Wilsonville) - and the good news is that Metro is currently working on a revised edition for Spring 2010, so if you have comments/ideas the person to contact at Metro is Matthew Hampton(Matthew.Hampton@oregonmetro.gov) - also, I've heard that Washington County is working on creating a new bike map (there was one put out by the Visitors Bureau of Wash. Co. in 2005 or so but it seems to be out of print?) but don't have any details on this.

On the question of "steepness" indicators (or "climb" indicators, as wsBob suggested - much less intimidating word, i agree) - I'm entirely open to suggestion as to what these should look like - generally, bike maps use these type of chevrons but it's not universal. Haven suggested the 1/2/3 arrow treatment, which i like on recreational (smaller scale) maps - I've tried to place the arrows closer together where the climb is steeper (e.g., Leahy Terrace/Ash), but it's pretty subtle, & it's been entirely subjective to this point. If i have time i'll look at slope profiles with my handydandy Topo USA software and try to be more objective about the "climb arrow" placement. And if anyone wants to suggest a metric for this, I'm all ears.

thanks again to all of you for your help to date --

Jeff Smith
City of Portland Bureau of Transportation
Transportation Options
1120 SW 5th - suite 800 - Portland, OR 97204
jeff.smith@pdxtrans.org
503.823.7083
www.GettingAroundPortland.org

wsbob
12-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Jeff, the climb arrows (chevron symbol) seem good enough, now that I know what they're indicating. It can take awhile to become familiar with the basic tools maps use to provide info. If a symbol to indicate climb rate can be custom made, perhaps using the chevron with a disc, globe, or gold circle with a ruffled edge such as medals sometimes have...on its nose, displaying a 1, 2, or 3 for difficulty of climb could be used. Climbs in pro cycling tour stages are rated similarly...can't remember off the top of my head, but easy to check out.

A little gold medal indicating climb severity/rate can also be a psychological boost. The mazama's also use a rating system to indicate the difficulty of climbs on hikes they lead in the Columbia Gorge and elsewhere. Helps some to have an idea what you're getting into.

I've got the Bike There! map. It's an interesting map but it's scale is smaller (harder to read on the road) than the Portland By Bicycle map. Many of the streets on it are labeled, but since the map doesn't have a street index or map grid co-ordinates to find a street using those labels, I'm not sure it's such an asset to have quite so many of the streets labeled. Simple, easy and fun to use is good.

There already does exist a Washington County bike map. I've got one.

Guess I don't have that one. How is it? Wonder if it's available at the Beav Bike Gallery or city hall. Washington County Visitors Center is over on 11000 SW Stratus St., Beaverton OR 97008...appears to be off of Hall Blvd near 217.

bikieboy
12-08-2009, 08:26 AM
Washington County Visitors Association11000 SW Stratus St., Suite 170 Beaverton, OR 97008Phone:(503) 644-5555Fax:(503) 644-9784

bikieboy
12-08-2009, 08:30 AM
wsB - it was published by the Washington County Visitors Association (11000 SW Stratus St., Suite 170 Beaverton, OR 97008 Phone:(503) 644-5555 ) - I believe it's out of print..? Sold for $3. Similar in style/format to the Metro map.

Psyfalcon
12-08-2009, 08:36 AM
I would go for some pass elevations on the way to Portland. Steepness isn't really a problem there, but the total amount of climbing can be. Additionally, its good to know how high it is in winter, when the snow starts falling below 1000ft.

wsbob
12-08-2009, 11:45 AM
wsB - it was published by the Washington County Visitors Association (11000 SW Stratus St., Suite 170 Beaverton, OR 97008 Phone: (503) 644-5555 ) - I believe it's out of print..? Sold for $3. Similar in style/format to the Metro map.

Jeff, thanks for the info. Saves me from chasing around to get a hold of one. Too bad they're out of print. Maybe I'll run across one somewhere.

For everyone's benefit(I've already got the maps for myself), is there's a list of locations, as in 'physical locations' where the Portland By Bike map can be acquired? Looked on the Getting Around Portland webpage, but didn't see such a list. That the map would be available at the visitor center, city hall, and some bike shops, maybe Powell's seems obvious, but I would think an actual list of those locations on the web page might be helpful.

Late last night at the Fred Meyer, I checked on the availability of maps in the stores book section. No bike route maps of the folding type. I noticed one bike tour book on the shelf...didn't look at it. I wonder if it would be good, if for example, some Starbucks, indy coffee shops and other places people frequent outside of government and bike shop hours carried things like local bike route maps. Convenient for people that need the maps, and also, it might be a way to generate some income for the map production budget.

bikieboy
12-08-2009, 02:22 PM
wsB, we make our maps available to whoever is interested in displaying them & giving them away. We also include a fabulous cardboard brochure holder.
they can be ordered, individually or in bulk, by calling 503.823.2925, press 2. or online: http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=34809

But no, we don't track who has them, and rely on folks who carry them to call us for refills.

wsbob
12-09-2009, 11:01 PM
bikieboy, thanks for the info on availability of the map and cardboard brochure holder. If you have a picture of it, post it. Maybe of the front face of the map too, so it's easier for people to recognize what's being discussed here.

Out on a little ride today, I dropped into the Beaverton Bike Gallery to see if they had the map available; One copy. So...people must be picking them up. Didn't specifically ask employees about it.

bikieboy
12-10-2009, 10:59 AM
wsB,

our SmartTrips Business program makes these maps with genuine cardboard brochure holder available to businesses that want it, among other transportation services - here's the program information:
http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=46299&#free%20services
major caveat: most of these services offered are for businesses within the city of Portland. However, the maps/brochure holder we'll do for anyone.

Here's the front of the map we're talking about:
http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=112038

Contact for businesses wanting to get set up with maps/brochure holder is either me

Jeff Smith : jeff.smith@pdxtrans.org - 503.823.7083

- or - my esteemed colleague

Scott Cohen : scott.cohen@pdxtrans.org - 503.823.6598

wsbob
12-10-2009, 04:00 PM
bikieboy, thanks for posting that pic of the Portland By Bike map cover.

Today, I was loaned a copy of the Washington County bike map, the same one I imagine Lyneff and you are referring to, titled Country Cycling, Exploring Washington County By Bicycle. Word I got was that Metro, with grant assistance, helped the Washington County Visitors Center to produce this map.

Same dimensions as the 2007 Bike There! Portland Metropolitan bike map. That might make it more difficult to handle on the road than the Portland By Bike map, though the paper it's printed on is heavier than the Bike There! map, helping to make up for this.

Using bright colors for lines indicating bike routes, it's a beautiful map to look at. Colored lines could be a little thinner perhaps, and still be clearly visible. The large side of the map encompasses a huge area, taking in parts of Sherwood to the south, Lake Oswego to the east, Scapoose to the north, and territory 8-10 miles west of Hagg Lake. The map indicates gravel roads in the territory west of Hagg Lake; there's a lot of them...miles and miles of them.

This looks to me like a great map for people interested in west side biking. It is out of print partly because it indicates only those routes in existence up to 2004. I was told it is going to be updated and reprinted, but no definite indication when. Places like Bike Gallery and REI at one time were invited to offer the map for sale, which they apparently did for maybe $2-$3, but when supplies ran low, the visitors center was not prepared to resupply them. I suppose it's due to a budget issue. That's too bad, because I feel like people interested in west side bike routes could really benefit from having this map available to them on an ongoing basis. ;)

jeff
10-14-2010, 09:37 AM
Greetings again, westside cyclists -- Iím starting in on another update the City of Portland bike map (it's only been since last winter but we need to reprint again, we went through them like crazy this summer & we're all out) and thought Iíd ask if there are any suggestions for revisions/ additions/ corrections, etc. needed for the west Portland / Beaverton area, or any part of the map, really. Your suggestions from last time 'round were really helpful, I tried to incorporate them as much as possible.

I know about the new bike lanes on Lombard, but anything else that's happened since last winter that should be included on the map?

You can contact me directly (see below info), or post here and i'll check back.

Hereís the link to both the Citywide map & the Beaverton inset map - they're the second bullet down:
http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=34809&a=70221

or, if you want to get there the fun way, you can go to the overall map here (http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=34809&) and click on the salmon-colored area that says "Portland".

At this point Iím aiming to have all suggested changes in hand by Oct. 25th.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Jeff Smith
City of Portland Bureau of Transportation
Transportation Options
1120 SW 5th - suite 800 - Portland, OR 97204
jeff.smith@portlandoregon.gov

DaveT
10-20-2010, 03:46 PM
The Washington County Visitors Association is busy updating their map as well. Check out the Bike Portland post at http://bikeportland.org/2010/09/30/washington-county-visitors-association-wants-your-feedback-on-new-bike-map-40352. Unfortunately I think the period for input closed on Oct 8.

I provided Gerald with feedback on Bull Mountain Rd and got a quick response.

It will be nice to have a new version of this map.

Dave Thomson

jeff
10-21-2010, 08:43 AM
thanks for the heads-up, Dave -- I did talk with Gerald & reviewed the Washington Co. map.

jeff