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ME 2
10-30-2007, 08:48 AM
I was riding down N Flint to N Broadway at about 8:15 and noticed 2 motorcycle cops. One had two cyclists pulled over and was handing out tickets.

toddwaddell
10-30-2007, 09:28 AM
I'm not too surprised. I saw a motorcycle cop setting himself up by the OMSI bike paths yesterday.

With the high profile accidents, increased enforcement activities should be expected. I just hope they have also told their officers to be similarly vigilant about driver infractions.

Tbird
10-30-2007, 09:33 AM
WTF?
shouldn't Portland's 'finest' be focusing on the road users who have recently proven themselves to be irresponsibly deadly?
Not saying there aren't cyclists who need a little rap on the knuckles, but it really seems there are two personalities to PDX transit:
Pro-bike
vs.
Anti-bike

What message are they trying to send?

This is sad

Klixi
10-30-2007, 11:40 AM
WTF?
shouldn't Portland's 'finest' be focusing on the road users who have recently proven themselves to be irresponsibly deadly?
Not saying there aren't cyclists who need a little rap on the knuckles, but it really seems there are two personalities to PDX transit:
Pro-bike
vs.
Anti-bike

What message are they trying to send?

This is sad

It's sad they're enforcing the law? 2 motorcycle cops is not the entire PPD. It's not even 1%. The more cyclists who get ticketed for breaking the law, the less bad they make the law abiding cyclists look - which is good not just for cyclists' safety, but for drivers' perception of us.

In the wake of these two most recent deaths I've noticed more careless cyclists than ever. Maybe I'm just more aware of it now, but I'm not going to shed a tear or whine online when I see a cyclist being ticketed for breaking the law. Imagine a car driver who just got ticketed running home and posting online "I can't believe I just got ticketed for speeding when there are kidnappers, rapists and meth addicts causing problems all over Portland!"

It's time to stop shifting the blame and accept responsiblity. Both drivers and cyclists need to improve their attitudes and stop pointing fingers.

As for drivers.. I don't think there is a day that goes by when I don't see multiple instances of cars/trucks that are pulled off to the side of the road with a cop writing up a ticket or searching a car. In comparison, I rarely see cyclists being ticketed. I think the balance is fair, and I think people on this site tend to get far too worked up in the heat of the moment.

Being killed when you are doing nothing but following the law is never acceptable, but the 6 bike-related deaths in Portland this year seems like a relatively low number given the high (and growing higher) number of cyclists out there each day.

Compared to the number of car wrecks and auto-on-auto fatalities, I feel quite safe on my bike and do not really fall into the scare tactics some people on this site tend to peddle.

nishiki
10-30-2007, 01:30 PM
It's sad they're enforcing the law? 2 motorcycle cops is not the entire PPD. It's not even 1%. The more cyclists who get ticketed for breaking the law, the less bad they make the law abiding cyclists look - which is good not just for cyclists' safety, but for drivers' perception of us.

In the wake of these two most recent deaths I've noticed more careless cyclists than ever. Maybe I'm just more aware of it now, but I'm not going to shed a tear or whine online when I see a cyclist being ticketed for breaking the law. Imagine a car driver who just got ticketed running home and posting online "I can't believe I just got ticketed for speeding when there are kidnappers, rapists and meth addicts causing problems all over Portland!"

It's time to stop shifting the blame and accept responsiblity. Both drivers and cyclists need to improve their attitudes and stop pointing fingers.

As for drivers.. I don't think there is a day that goes by when I don't see multiple instances of cars/trucks that are pulled off to the side of the road with a cop writing up a ticket or searching a car. In comparison, I rarely see cyclists being ticketed. I think the balance is fair, and I think people on this site tend to get far too worked up in the heat of the moment.

Being killed when you are doing nothing but following the law is never acceptable, but the 6 bike-related deaths in Portland this year seems like a relatively low number given the high (and growing higher) number of cyclists out there each day.

Compared to the number of car wrecks and auto-on-auto fatalities, I feel quite safe on my bike and do not really fall into the scare tactics some people on this site tend to peddle.


FYI, none of the cycling fatalities you mention had to do with running a light.
Would you really pull over a cyclist if you were a cop? Give me a break.

Klixi
10-30-2007, 01:51 PM
FYI, none of the cycling fatalities you mention had to do with running a light.
Would you really pull over a cyclist if you were a cop? Give me a break.

Nor was that ever implied.

And yes, if I was a cop I'd pull over a cyclist for breaking the law just as I'd pull over a driver for breaking the law. Suggesting someone doesn't need to adhere to certain laws simply because they aren't in a car is absurd to insinuate, and unsafe for other cyclists who do follow the laws. Riding through a stop sign is safe, as is not checking your blindspot (especially when in a large, utility vehicle).

Whether you like it or not, the laws are not there for you to judge how valid they are and to break them at your own discretion. Breaking the law will result in a penalty, and if you are willing to deal with the consequences of breaking the law then knock yourself out. Personally, I have better things to spend $280 dollars on than a traffic ticket because I was too lazy to come to a full stop.

PDXGS
10-30-2007, 01:58 PM
The more cyclists who get ticketed for breaking the law, the less bad they make the law abiding cyclists look - which is good not just for cyclists' safety, but for drivers' perception of us.

What if you were ticketed by a cop who interprets the law incorrectlyor is just severly misinformed but toting a badge like Mr Kruger? Would you complain, fight? I agree that some riders ruin the public's perception of many but shouldn't the police be involved in something more beneficial?
Just my $.02...worth everything you paid for it.

Klixi
10-30-2007, 02:18 PM
What if you were ticketed by a cop who interprets the law incorrectlyor is just severly misinformed but toting a badge like Mr Kruger? Would you complain, fight? I agree that some riders ruin the public's perception of many but shouldn't the police be involved in something more beneficial?
Just my $.02...worth everything you paid for it.

I think you're trying to distort the issue here, which is running stop signs as the original poster had mentioned. Coming to a complete stop and putting a foot down is the law, and pretty difficult to misinterpret.

As for the cops being involved in something more beneficial, I'd say pedophilia and murder are far more important crimes than ticketing both cyclists AND drivers. To try to weasel out of breaking the law by saying "but what about all the WORSE crimes out there" is passing the blame, something cyclists are becoming all too well known for.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
10-30-2007, 03:09 PM
Coming to a complete stop and putting a foot down is the law, and pretty difficult to misinterpret.

Well, you just did. There is no requirement that you put your foot down. If your wheels discernably stop moving, you have fulfilled your legal obligation. Like many cyclists, I can do that without putting my foot down.

Tbird
10-30-2007, 03:16 PM
Wow,
I'm stunned.
Klixi, I think you misunderstood me.
No way am I saying there shouldn't be cyclists getting tickets. BUT, what I am saying is this: Given recently we have had careless commercial drivers killing people on bicycles, of which I am one, I think it prudent that the good old boys at the PPB go out and sting some COMMERCIAL DRIVERS.

Jim E. Hat
10-30-2007, 04:11 PM
...not sure if this is 100% relevant, but there's a motorcycle police office right near omsi, under the bridge. i reckon that's why they sting a lot around there... just lazy.

mizake
10-30-2007, 04:43 PM
...not sure if this is 100% relevant, but there's a motorcycle police office right near omsi, under the bridge. i reckon that's why they sting a lot around there... just lazy.

Man am I glad they're (the cops) are out there making sure cyclists don't kill anymore motorists.

Why don't they hang out by the Ross Island Cement factory (or whatever it's called) and ticket the drivers the tear-ass out of that place. Or when they race past cyclists heading south and try and beat them to the entrance to the factory, sometimes dangerously cutting off the cyclist. No blinkers. Which actually has increased since the two recent fatalities. But no really, I'm really freaking glad they're there to stop cyclists from killing.

PDXGS
10-30-2007, 05:22 PM
Well, you just did. There is no requirement that you put your foot down. If your wheels discernably stop moving, you have fulfilled your legal obligation. Like many cyclists, I can do that without putting my foot down.
Ouch...good call....
Misinterpretations abound!

donnambr
10-30-2007, 07:14 PM
It's sad they're enforcing the law?
It's sad if they are choosing to enforce the law via an organized sting in locations that are not on that list of dangerous intersections released at that press conference.

Attornatus_Oregonensis
10-30-2007, 08:34 PM
These are your Police Bureau's enforcement priorities. Sadly and utterly inverted.

It begs the question: Are they really just attempting to discourage cycling in PDX, or are they completely unaware of the most pressing safety risks on our roads? Either way, they're not doing their job.

wyeast
10-30-2007, 09:32 PM
Not for nothin', but believe me, the police were doing anything but stinging just the bicyclists today. I passed what had to be at least a dozen motorcycle officers along the Glen Jackson Bridge this afternoon. One in the center MUP lasering, the "wolf pack" on the left shoulder, with at least 3-4 out with their "catch".

(edit) Washington State Patrol was busy, too. Saw at least 3-4 pullovers along SR-14 on that same trip.

Everybody be on their best behavior tomorrow!

huss
10-31-2007, 10:11 AM
They have to get there quota for the month just a few days left....lol

nishiki
10-31-2007, 10:32 AM
They have to get there quota for the month just a few days left....lol

Exactly! z

devtchkajenn
11-04-2007, 11:41 AM
Well, you just did. There is no requirement that you put your foot down. If your wheels discernably stop moving, you have fulfilled your legal obligation. Like many cyclists, I can do that without putting my foot down.

I third this! Putting your foot down every block gets a bit repetitive....I can easily have my wheels stop, check for traffic (and not one of those half a second stops either)/wait for the person with the right away to clear, and continue on my merry way without touching the ground.

erth64net
11-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Well, you just did. There is no requirement that you put your foot down. If your wheels discernably stop moving, you have fulfilled your legal obligation. Like many cyclists, I can do that without putting my foot down.

I too can come to a complete stop without putting my foot down. Though I've always wondered; does the law require you stop, and stay stopped for a certain duration, in order to truly fulfill your legal obligation to stop?

wsbob
11-10-2007, 02:40 PM
All of this confusion about what constitutes a reasonable stop at a stop sign seems unnecessary. If KGW can set up a camera for 5 minutes and show 33 people clearly disregarding a stop sign, the police ought to be able to do the same and prove that any citation they issue is justified. I've heard that they film people and bikes passing through intersections and stop signs, but I haven't heard that cops use film to corroborate their claim that an alleged violator really didn't make a reasonable stop.

Though technically it's the law to make a complete stop where the vehicle, whether it be bike or car becomes motionless, given particular situations and circumstances, it's not always necessary to adhere to an absolutely literal application of that law to achieve the standard of safety it's intended to accomplish. Cops know that and have discretion that allows them to take particular situations and circumstances into consideration.

Anybody approaching an intersection with a stop sign or light, if not completely stopping, should at the least be slowing way down and visibly looking left and right before proceeding.

I keep trying, but I don't seem to be able to do track stands. Nobody should be expected to be able to do that just for negotiating public streets and roads.