Comments on: Electric vehicles, 'The Portland Way' http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123 Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:07:44 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: 9watts http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1617476 9watts Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:23:11 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1617476 Sorry about your commute, EVfan. that doesn't sound like much fun. Those kinds of commutes along with the internal combustion private auto are going to go the way of the Dodo bird in our lifetimes. So we should be careful how much we rely on situations like this to plan our future transport infrastructure. Sorry about your commute, EVfan. that doesn't sound like much fun. Those kinds of commutes along with the internal combustion private auto are going to go the way of the Dodo bird in our lifetimes. So we should be careful how much we rely on situations like this to plan our future transport infrastructure.

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]]> By: EVfan http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1617464 EVfan Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:49:28 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1617464 @wsbob 20 miles out, 20 miles back. I could easily do the commute via bicycle but on a daily basis? With a kid in tow? No thanks. Bicycles, even "electrical-assist" bicycles can be nice, but they aren't necessarily the end all. @wsbob 20 miles out, 20 miles back. I could easily do the commute via bicycle but on a daily basis? With a kid in tow? No thanks.

Bicycles, even "electrical-assist" bicycles can be nice, but they aren't necessarily the end all.

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]]> By: wsbob http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1617436 wsbob Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:28:09 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1617436 EVfan ...how many trips of how long each, account for that 40 current miles? If for example, a person lives 4 miles from destinations they must travel to multiple times a day, this is something some of them may be able to accomplish with a bicycle for at least some of those trips, and if not a pedal powered bike, an electric assist powered bike. Cars, even enclosed 'car-like' EV's can be nice, and even essential for some trip situations, but they aren't necessarily the end all. EVfan ...how many trips of how long each, account for that 40 current miles?

If for example, a person lives 4 miles from destinations they must travel to multiple times a day, this is something some of them may be able to accomplish with a bicycle for at least some of those trips, and if not a pedal powered bike, an electric assist powered bike. Cars, even enclosed 'car-like' EV's can be nice, and even essential for some trip situations, but they aren't necessarily the end all.

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]]> By: EVfan http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1617393 EVfan Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:31:04 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1617393 Sorry guys. You can push your bicycle agenda all day, and more power to you, but my current 40 miles a day (also the national average) with trips to child care isn't going to happen on a bicycle. More bicyclists should be happy that the potential for a cleaner air while riding the street is almost upon us. Sorry guys. You can push your bicycle agenda all day, and more power to you, but my current 40 miles a day (also the national average) with trips to child care isn't going to happen on a bicycle.

More bicyclists should be happy that the potential for a cleaner air while riding the street is almost upon us.

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]]> By: 9watts http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1603085 9watts Sun, 01 Aug 2010 15:01:04 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1603085 wsbob - thanks for posting that link. A quote from the NYT op-ed: "Quantifying just how much taxpayer money will have been wasted on the hastily developed Volt is no easy feat. Start with the $50 billion bailout (without which none of this would have been necessary), add $240 million in Energy Department grants doled out to G.M. last summer, $150 million in federal money to the Volt’s Korean battery supplier, up to $1.5 billion in tax breaks for purchasers and other consumer incentives, and some significant portion of the $14 billion loan G.M. got in 2008 for “retooling” its plants, and you’ve got some idea of how much taxpayer cash is built into every Volt. " That kind of money could buy a lot of useful infrastructure that would support human powered transport solutions. I wonder how many trailers, racks, panniers, rain gear, lights, etc. the local bike industry spread out across this country could make for that kind of money. And I bet after we'd equipped everyone (and yes, I mean just about everyone. I know there are those who are physically unable to ride a bike, but if you've been to other countries you know that many old people ride bikes every day, so age is not per se an excuse to dismiss biking-as-transport)with these niceties (for free even with all that taxpayer money...) we'd probably have a few billion $ left over to put toward covered bike storage at places of work. Just my 2 cents. wsbob -
thanks for posting that link. A quote from the NYT op-ed:
"Quantifying just how much taxpayer money will have been wasted on the hastily developed Volt is no easy feat. Start with the $50 billion bailout (without which none of this would have been necessary), add $240 million in Energy Department grants doled out to G.M. last summer, $150 million in federal money to the Volt’s Korean battery supplier, up to $1.5 billion in tax breaks for purchasers and other consumer incentives, and some significant portion of the $14 billion loan G.M. got in 2008 for “retooling” its plants, and you’ve got some idea of how much taxpayer cash is built into every Volt. "

That kind of money could buy a lot of useful infrastructure that would support human powered transport solutions. I wonder how many trailers, racks, panniers, rain gear, lights, etc. the local bike industry spread out across this country could make for that kind of money. And I bet after we'd equipped everyone (and yes, I mean just about everyone. I know there are those who are physically unable to ride a bike, but if you've been to other countries you know that many old people ride bikes every day, so age is not per se an excuse to dismiss biking-as-transport)with these niceties (for free even with all that taxpayer money...) we'd probably have a few billion $ left over to put toward covered bike storage at places of work.

Just my 2 cents.

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]]> By: wsbob http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1602785 wsbob Sun, 01 Aug 2010 06:20:25 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1602785 I think a lot of Americans were enthusiastically awaiting retail availability of the Chevy Volt, even though Chevrolet hedged on what the price would be. Then, as the release date drew closer this year, the car failed to appear at the Portland Auto Show, disappointing a lot of people that were interested in seeing it. Then, published in the NY Times this week, there's this depressing story about the car to read: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30neidermeyer.html?_r=1&ref=opinion" rel="nofollow">Op-Ed Contributor G.M.’s Electric Lemon By EDWARD NIEDERMEYER Published: July 29, 2010</a> Looks like Toyota has nothing to worry about in terms of competition from the volt. "...They won't let us build a port for LNG that we need to make electricity. ..." jim Hey jim...what I've heard people say(I believe in comments a few weeks back over on blueoregon), is that the LNG port proposed for Oregon, was primarily intended for the purpose of rerouting LNG from Oregon to California for that states' energy needs...not Oregon's. I think a lot of Americans were enthusiastically awaiting retail availability of the Chevy Volt, even though Chevrolet hedged on what the price would be.

Then, as the release date drew closer this year, the car failed to appear at the Portland Auto Show, disappointing a lot of people that were interested in seeing it. Then, published in the NY Times this week, there's this depressing story about the car to read:

Op-Ed Contributor
G.M.’s Electric Lemon By EDWARD NIEDERMEYER
Published: July 29, 2010

Looks like Toyota has nothing to worry about in terms of competition from the volt.

"...They won't let us build a port for LNG that we need to make electricity. ..." jim

Hey jim...what I've heard people say(I believe in comments a few weeks back over on blueoregon), is that the LNG port proposed for Oregon, was primarily intended for the purpose of rerouting LNG from Oregon to California for that states' energy needs...not Oregon's.

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]]> By: Bill Stites http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1602748 Bill Stites Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:38:38 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1602748 Maybe I missed it, but I'd like to point out that the energy consumed by any vehicle is largely a function of its weight. If we endeavor to replace most fossil-fueled cars with electric cars that still weigh 2000+ lbs., there will be huge energy consumption ... in the obvious form of electricity. Indeed, we may see rolling blackouts sooner rather than later. I happen to feel that the combination of human+electric power will yield great efficiencies ... provided vehicle weights are comparable or LESS THAN cargo weights. Think ANT. Maybe I missed it, but I'd like to point out that the energy consumed by any vehicle is largely a function of its weight.

If we endeavor to replace most fossil-fueled cars with electric cars that still weigh 2000+ lbs., there will be huge energy consumption ... in the obvious form of electricity. Indeed, we may see rolling blackouts sooner rather than later.

I happen to feel that the combination of human+electric power will yield great efficiencies ... provided vehicle weights are comparable or LESS THAN cargo weights.

Think ANT.

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]]> By: jim http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1601680 jim Sat, 31 Jul 2010 05:32:30 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1601680 What a joke. The Chevy Volt only goes 40 miles on a charge, They cost a heck of a lot, They need heavy govt. subsidies so it is not good for the national debt. They won't let us build a port for LNG that we need to make electricity. Just another one of Sams bad ideas What a joke. The Chevy Volt only goes 40 miles on a charge, They cost a heck of a lot, They need heavy govt. subsidies so it is not good for the national debt. They won't let us build a port for LNG that we need to make electricity. Just another one of Sams bad ideas

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]]> By: q'Tzal http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1601375 q'Tzal Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:34:23 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1601375 The big push will effiency in ALL energy use. To help your nightmares go look up Dept of Defense publications on what they predict our next big conflict will be: resourse wars. Not little ones and not ones where we pretend we are there to stop some bad behavior. And the Pentagon's recommendations sound very Green and predictions run toward envio-apocalyptic. Cut our need to be there, Cut our need to associate and trade with, Cut our dependencies on them, Then there is no reason to be there. That save tax dollars and lives that can be spent at home. The big push will effiency in ALL energy use.
To help your nightmares go look up Dept of Defense publications on what they predict our next big conflict will be: resourse wars. Not little ones and not ones where we pretend we are there to stop some bad behavior.
And the Pentagon's recommendations sound very Green and predictions run toward envio-apocalyptic.
Cut our need to be there,
Cut our need to associate and trade with,
Cut our dependencies on them,
Then there is no reason to be there.
That save tax dollars and lives that can be spent at home.

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]]> By: 9watts http://bikeportland.org/2010/07/29/electric-vehicles-the-portland-way-37123#comment-1601359 9watts Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:35:17 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=37123#comment-1601359 Human power, energy conservation, and renewables are a pretty good way forward. Didn't we do that for, oh, 500,000 years? Human power, energy conservation, and renewables are a pretty good way forward.

Didn't we do that for, oh, 500,000 years?

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