Comments on: PBOT explains rationale of new "channelizer" islands on Spokane bike boulevard http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580 Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:42:47 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Paul Johnson http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1489177 Paul Johnson Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:54:32 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1489177 We should be moving away from using stop signs except at very high conflict locations (streets intersecting bicycle boulevards) or blind intersections: ie, a more European approach to stop sign placement. Rampant overuse of stop signs where yield signs would work just as well has caused American road users to have some contempt for the stop sign, and causes road users to ignore them at locations where stopping is an important safety feature, not just a CYA measure. Really the stop sign should be as rare as the yield sign is today in the US, with most stop sign locations being changed to Yield treatments or removed entirely. I don't know why the FHWA has it's head up it's ass on this. We should be moving away from using stop signs except at very high conflict locations (streets intersecting bicycle boulevards) or blind intersections: ie, a more European approach to stop sign placement. Rampant overuse of stop signs where yield signs would work just as well has caused American road users to have some contempt for the stop sign, and causes road users to ignore them at locations where stopping is an important safety feature, not just a CYA measure.

Really the stop sign should be as rare as the yield sign is today in the US, with most stop sign locations being changed to Yield treatments or removed entirely. I don't know why the FHWA has it's head up it's ass on this.

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]]> By: Dave http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1489099 Dave Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:21:20 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1489099 Generally neither bikes nor cars stop at anything. It usually requires a human being activating the brakes in either case, and in either case, that human being is pretty much equally likely to do so. Generally neither bikes nor cars stop at anything. It usually requires a human being activating the brakes in either case, and in either case, that human being is pretty much equally likely to do so.

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]]> By: KWW http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1489097 KWW Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:18:34 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1489097 Another option for that intersection is a 4 way stop sign, but we know how bicycles don't stop at those! Another option for that intersection is a 4 way stop sign, but we know how bicycles don't stop at those!

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]]> By: jim http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1488464 jim Mon, 04 Jan 2010 07:58:10 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1488464 "nobody warned me that someone would be pouring twenty tons of concrete in my path. " Are you using a real headlight or just a little blinky light? It sounds like you may have been riding out of control if you didn't see all that yellow paint and just crashed right into an aise-land? "nobody warned me that someone would be pouring twenty tons of concrete in my path. "

Are you using a real headlight or just a little blinky light? It sounds like you may have been riding out of control if you didn't see all that yellow paint and just crashed right into an aise-land?

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]]> By: are http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487754 are Sat, 02 Jan 2010 04:07:00 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487754 re 78. 814.420 says bike lane or bike path. these terms are not defined. you say the facility to the right of the channel is not a bike path. someone else with authority to write tickets might say it is. certainly a motorist wanting to squeeze through the channel will say it is. and yes, people have been prosecuted for taking the lane elsewhere than on sw broadway (though that is a good example of a poorly designed bike lane). http://bikeportland.org/2006/11/07/expert-witness-backfires-on-da-in-bike-lane-case/ re 78. 814.420 says bike lane or bike path. these terms are not defined. you say the facility to the right of the channel is not a bike path. someone else with authority to write tickets might say it is. certainly a motorist wanting to squeeze through the channel will say it is. and yes, people have been prosecuted for taking the lane elsewhere than on sw broadway (though that is a good example of a poorly designed bike lane).
http://bikeportland.org/2006/11/07/expert-witness-backfires-on-da-in-bike-lane-case/

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]]> By: Paul Johnson http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487716 Paul Johnson Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:54:50 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487716 @Nick: But that's the sun belt. Sun-roasted brain cells + automobile = dangerously stupid. @Nick: But that's the sun belt. Sun-roasted brain cells + automobile = dangerously stupid.

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]]> By: jacque http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487707 jacque Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:09:53 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487707 forgot to add... I would expect these to do what they are intended to do: slow down drivers. I like the way narrow streets do that. Wish we had narrow streets. forgot to add... I would expect these to do what they are intended to do: slow down drivers. I like the way narrow streets do that. Wish we had narrow streets.

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]]> By: jacque http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487700 jacque Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:58:15 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487700 It looks and sounds like these were installed to slow auto traffic. A few questions: Why are they called bicycle infrastructure? If the sole purpose is to calm down auto traffic, then it is auto infrastructure. Why does the auto traffic need additional infrastructure, paid for out of my taxes, in order to slow it down? Did someone determine that the posted speed limit was too high to be safe? If so, why wouldn't anyone have the political will to push through a change in speed limit? (no matter how seemingly "impossible" this is) Was it determined that all auto drivers should be expected to be lawbreaking sociopaths, so it is no use changing the speed limit? Why do we have speed limits? These aren't sarcastic comments posing as questions. I'd love to hear some answers. Thanks, J It looks and sounds like these were installed to slow auto traffic.

A few questions:

Why are they called bicycle infrastructure? If the sole purpose is to calm down auto traffic, then it is auto infrastructure.

Why does the auto traffic need additional infrastructure, paid for out of my taxes, in order to slow it down?

Did someone determine that the posted speed limit was too high to be safe? If so, why wouldn't anyone have the political will to push through a change in speed limit? (no matter how seemingly "impossible" this is)

Was it determined that all auto drivers should be expected to be lawbreaking sociopaths, so it is no use changing the speed limit?

Why do we have speed limits?

These aren't sarcastic comments posing as questions. I'd love to hear some answers. Thanks, J

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]]> By: Nick http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487660 Nick Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:38:43 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487660 We made a major bike lane mistake similar to this in Austin, TX and it was very dangerous and expensive (and in the news each day). The city should do a little research on this history to avoid repeating it in Portland. We made a major bike lane mistake similar to this in Austin, TX and it was very dangerous and expensive (and in the news each day).

The city should do a little research on this history to avoid repeating it in Portland.

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]]> By: KWW http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/29/pbot-explains-rationale-of-new-channelizer-islands-on-spokane-bike-boulevard-27580#comment-1487336 KWW Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:24:12 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27580#comment-1487336 Part of the problem with Channels is that there are NO other markings in the roadway to denote a bicycle boulevard at this time. So will there be future markings? If so, then this commotion over the channels will die down somewhat, imo, as the design feature is somewhat out of context. Part of the problem with Channels is that there are NO other markings in the roadway to denote a bicycle boulevard at this time.

So will there be future markings? If so, then this commotion over the channels will die down somewhat, imo, as the design feature is somewhat out of context.

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