Comments on: Portland's "whiteness" cited as reason for bike-friendliness http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130 Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:52:41 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: J.Chong http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1487143 J.Chong Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:46:23 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1487143 Thx for the City of Chicago comments in post #45. And for fatboy in post #79, hope you write up a more detailed article on that history part for LA. Or if it's written up already, please provide us the reference. As a Canadian cyclist from Vancouver, B.C. who lived and cycled in Toronto, Ontario for several years prior 2002, it might be useful that public education and public involvement on cycling, alternative transportation planning, livable/sustainable urban planning, may be on scale of complexity and magnitude might be similar to LA: Visible Minority Metro Toronto 5+million South Asian: 684,000+ 486,000 Chinese Metro Vancouver 2+ million South Asian 217,000+ 381,000+ Chinese From Statistics Canada 2006 census. I've given only the top figures. http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/hlt/97-562/pages/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=CMA&Code=933__&Data=Count&Table=2&StartRec=1&Sort=3&Display=All&CSDFilter=5000 The sheer size and magnitude of numbers for Metro Toronto and Metro Vancouver in demographic composition make it difficult to generalize. Yes, there are some neighbourhood differences, as well as heterogeneity within 1 particular ethnic group in terms of income, educational level, born in Canada vs. recent immigrants, etc. I have visited Portland twice in past 2 years as cyclist. Let me gently express: Vancouver and Toronto offer and aggressively market their cities for its obvious diversity: large/huge sections of South Asians, Chinese of which there are several large area concentrations, not just 1 area per group. Up to this point, I have not yet perceived Portland in this manner as a visitor. Nothing wrong with this for Portland. But it is important that Portland view its diversity issues and how it plans for it as quite frankly not on the same magnitude and complexity as LA, Vancouver BC or Toronto. There might be various socio-economic, linguistic and cultural reasons why cycling is perceived as dominated by certain folks in certain city areas. Also some of those reasons might simply be lack of cycling infrastructure and connectivity in certain neighbourhoods. But part of the question is: Does building cycling infrastructure (bike lanes, paths) and then the people will come? Is it like building new or wider highways, streets and in 5-10 years more cars will fill up the new roadways? Is it presumptuous to assume that with mere existence of cycling infrastructure people will eventually get of cars and flock to the bike routes? It may not be that simple for a variety of reasons, depending on the area of any city. Most of us know there needs to be other incentives or motives to help many people go to and use cycling often within their lives. Why bother looking at matters of which segments of the population in cycling and alternative transporation planning: For cycling advocacy groups, city planners: Serve your people. You are providing a service, a transportation program is a service. Serve the people well. If they don't want to partake in the service, then at least you have listened, tailored your communication plans and programs to reach out. Then one might have to keep at cycling your talk and see change in 5-10 years in converting more cyclists. Small history note, on bilingual bike map, a first probably in Canada, but probably forgotten by now: http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2009/12/12/bilingual-multilingual-bicycle-maps-canada%e2%80%99s-first-chinese-english-bicycle-map-for-metro-toronto-a-legacy-of-eugene-yao-community-and-cycling-activist/ Thx for the City of Chicago comments in post #45.
And for fatboy in post #79, hope you write up a more detailed article on that history part for LA. Or if it's written up already, please provide us the reference.

As a Canadian cyclist from Vancouver, B.C. who lived and cycled in Toronto, Ontario for several years prior 2002, it might be useful that public education and public involvement on cycling, alternative transportation planning, livable/sustainable urban planning, may be on scale of complexity and magnitude might be similar to LA:

Visible Minority
Metro Toronto 5+million South Asian: 684,000+ 486,000 Chinese

Metro Vancouver 2+ million South Asian 217,000+ 381,000+ Chinese

From Statistics Canada 2006 census. I've given only the top figures.
http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/hlt/97-562/pages/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=CMA&Code=933__&Data=Count&Table=2&StartRec=1&Sort=3&Display=All&CSDFilter=5000

The sheer size and magnitude of numbers for Metro Toronto and Metro Vancouver in demographic composition make it difficult to generalize. Yes, there are some neighbourhood differences, as well as heterogeneity within 1 particular ethnic group in terms of income, educational level, born in Canada vs. recent immigrants, etc.

I have visited Portland twice in past 2 years as cyclist. Let me gently express: Vancouver and Toronto offer and aggressively market their cities for its obvious diversity: large/huge sections of South Asians, Chinese of which there are several large area concentrations, not just 1 area per group. Up to this point, I have not yet perceived Portland in this manner as a visitor. Nothing wrong with this for Portland. But it is important that Portland view its diversity issues and how it plans for it as quite frankly not on the same magnitude and complexity as LA, Vancouver BC or Toronto.

There might be various socio-economic, linguistic and cultural reasons why cycling is perceived as dominated by certain folks in certain city areas. Also some of those reasons might simply be lack of cycling infrastructure and connectivity in certain neighbourhoods.

But part of the question is: Does building cycling infrastructure (bike lanes, paths) and then the people will come? Is it like building new or wider highways, streets and in 5-10 years more cars will fill up the new roadways? Is it presumptuous to assume that with mere existence of cycling infrastructure people will eventually get of cars and flock to the bike routes?

It may not be that simple for a variety of reasons, depending on the area of any city. Most of us know there needs to be other incentives or motives to help many people go to and use cycling often within their lives.

Why bother looking at matters of which segments of the population in cycling and alternative transporation planning:

For cycling advocacy groups, city planners: Serve your people. You are providing a service, a transportation program is a service.

Serve the people well. If they don't want to partake in the service, then at least you have listened, tailored your communication plans and programs to reach out. Then one might have to keep at cycling your talk and see change in 5-10 years in converting more cyclists.

Small history note, on bilingual bike map, a first probably in Canada, but probably forgotten by now:

http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2009/12/12/bilingual-multilingual-bicycle-maps-canada%e2%80%99s-first-chinese-english-bicycle-map-for-metro-toronto-a-legacy-of-eugene-yao-community-and-cycling-activist/

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]]> By: Fatboy http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1483581 Fatboy Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:41:45 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1483581 Some historical perspective, here. When I started cycling in Los Angeles, in the late 1960's, the touring club I rode with --Los Angeles Wheelmen--had a noticeable number of black and Hispanic cyclists. At races, there were two visible Hispanic clubs, Club Ciclistas Aztecas, and Club Ciclisto Mexico. Later, starting about 1973, there was and still is a mainly African-American club, the Major Motion cycling club. Two of the first cyclists in the LA Wheelmen to take me under their wing and teach me how to keep from becoming roadkill were black--Richard Mason and Henry Corbett. I think that IF there is a "whiter" cycling community here, it is due to the population at large--I moved here in 1977 and didn't hear Spanish spoken by anyone until 1981. I think it makes sense to look for reasons beyond any kind of cultural, racial, or economic bias which seems like the first place many people look now. Very few Americans of any color were real cyclists from 1960 to 2000, not a whole lot more are these days. All ethnic groups in the US are underrepresented in cycling! Some historical perspective, here. When I started cycling in Los Angeles, in the late 1960's, the touring club I rode with --Los Angeles Wheelmen--had a noticeable number of black and Hispanic cyclists. At races, there were two visible Hispanic clubs, Club Ciclistas Aztecas, and Club Ciclisto Mexico. Later, starting about 1973, there was and still is a mainly African-American club, the Major Motion cycling club.
Two of the first cyclists in the LA Wheelmen to take me under their wing and teach me how to keep from becoming roadkill were black--Richard Mason and Henry Corbett. I think that IF there is a "whiter" cycling community here, it is due to the population at large--I moved here in 1977 and didn't hear Spanish spoken by anyone until 1981.
I think it makes sense to look for reasons beyond any kind of cultural, racial, or economic bias which seems like the first place many people look now. Very few Americans of any color were real cyclists from 1960 to 2000, not a whole lot more are these days. All ethnic groups in the US are underrepresented in cycling!

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]]> By: Christa http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1482603 Christa Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:46:22 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1482603 Is it more a matter of affluence than ethnicity? bicycle-friendly city = wealth ? Is it more a matter of affluence than ethnicity?

bicycle-friendly city = wealth ?

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]]> By: soundguysean http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1482589 soundguysean Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:27:19 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1482589 Haven't read all the comments yet. But commenting on the pic...I would never ride a bike down Melrose at any hour, any day of the weeks. Just crossing the street on a walk sign is taking your life in your hands. People get up to 70 stoplight to stoplight. And this is on a weds mid morning. Haven't read all the comments yet. But commenting on the pic...I would never ride a bike down Melrose at any hour, any day of the weeks. Just crossing the street on a walk sign is taking your life in your hands. People get up to 70 stoplight to stoplight. And this is on a weds mid morning.

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]]> By: Anonymous http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1482215 Anonymous Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:00:36 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1482215 carrying a gun in LA is not going to save you. A cell phone and some really good connections might though. carrying a gun in LA is not going to save you. A cell phone and some really good connections might though.

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]]> By: The Church of the Blue Dome » Naked Intent: What Lies Beneath http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1482170 The Church of the Blue Dome » Naked Intent: What Lies Beneath Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:52:13 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1482170 [...] are so marginalized they're not sure how to behave. It's an unfortunate situation, but rest assured the city of Los Angeles is planning to do something about it by increasing the number of white peopl...:Yes, once Los Angeles can reduce the pesky racial diversity that somehow prevents them from being [...] [...] are so marginalized they're not sure how to behave. It's an unfortunate situation, but rest assured the city of Los Angeles is planning to do something about it by increasing the number of white peopl...:Yes, once Los Angeles can reduce the pesky racial diversity that somehow prevents them from being [...]

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]]> By: John V http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1482005 John V Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:18:47 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1482005 "If you ride in LA, bring a gun." It's comments like this that will drive more L.A. people into Oregon. Luckily your local Minuteman chapter will stop them cold since Oregon is apparently closed. *** "there are parts of la that the police don't even want to go into" What parts might these be, and how would you know this? Gangsta rap albums? *** Paul Johnson is absolutely right about not buying crappy new department store bikes, though. There's plenty of great used bikes on Craig's List or from your local bike co-op. "If you ride in LA, bring a gun."

It's comments like this that will drive more L.A. people into Oregon. Luckily your local Minuteman chapter will stop them cold since Oregon is apparently closed.

***

"there are parts of la that the police don't even want to go into"

What parts might these be, and how would you know this? Gangsta rap albums?

***

Paul Johnson is absolutely right about not buying crappy new department store bikes, though. There's plenty of great used bikes on Craig's List or from your local bike co-op.

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]]> By: Scott http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1481989 Scott Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:34:25 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1481989 Transportation and racism are related in US cities. Urban freeways and redlining were the mechanism for European Americans to move to the suburbs and isolate themselves from everyone else. It's not good for a city when a large number of people of any background leave. They take wealth, education, skills, and local activism with them. In a more homogeneous city like Portland there was not as much desire to flee the city. There was not so much demand for suburb oriented automobile infrastructure. With more people living and working in the neighborhood where they grew up and fewer non-residents driving through on freeways it's a lot easier to make bikes work. Racism was the force that made many US cities want to tear themselves apart. Automobile infrastructure was the enabler. You can get in a metal shell on a road that cuts through the neighborhood of people who you don't like to get to a neighborhood of people that you do like. That's hard to do on a bicycle. Without racism there would have been less sprawl and less suburb oriented automobile infrastructure. More people would have stayed in city neighborhoods where they grew up, where they supported local businesses, where they worked, where they paid taxes, and where they bicycled. The woman from LA is right. Because Portland is a more homogeneous city it is easier to promote bicycling. People don't need to use cars to separate themselves. They have a hard problem down there and they need all the help and support we can provide. Transportation and racism are related in US cities. Urban freeways and redlining were the mechanism for European Americans to move to the suburbs and isolate themselves from everyone else. It's not good for a city when a large number of people of any background leave. They take wealth, education, skills, and local activism with them. In a more homogeneous city like Portland there was not as much desire to flee the city. There was not so much demand for suburb oriented automobile infrastructure. With more people living and working in the neighborhood where they grew up and fewer non-residents driving through on freeways it's a lot easier to make bikes work.

Racism was the force that made many US cities want to tear themselves apart. Automobile infrastructure was the enabler. You can get in a metal shell on a road that cuts through the neighborhood of people who you don't like to get to a neighborhood of people that you do like. That's hard to do on a bicycle.

Without racism there would have been less sprawl and less suburb oriented automobile infrastructure. More people would have stayed in city neighborhoods where they grew up, where they supported local businesses, where they worked, where they paid taxes, and where they bicycled.

The woman from LA is right. Because Portland is a more homogeneous city it is easier to promote bicycling. People don't need to use cars to separate themselves.

They have a hard problem down there and they need all the help and support we can provide.

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]]> By: Paul Johnson http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1481961 Paul Johnson Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:29:05 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1481961 Additionally, the single-time-use bicycles you find in discount stores tend to have maintenance costs similar to that of a used car, mostly because the cheap quality involved is the manufacturer banking on the purchaser only riding it a few times (50 miles over the lifetime of the bicycle, tops) before it sits in a shed to die until the owner goes "hey, I wanna go for a bike ride" and discovers they can't without getting it fixed or buying another single-use bicycle... Additionally, the single-time-use bicycles you find in discount stores tend to have maintenance costs similar to that of a used car, mostly because the cheap quality involved is the manufacturer banking on the purchaser only riding it a few times (50 miles over the lifetime of the bicycle, tops) before it sits in a shed to die until the owner goes "hey, I wanna go for a bike ride" and discovers they can't without getting it fixed or buying another single-use bicycle...

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]]> By: Paul Johnson http://bikeportland.org/2009/12/15/portlands-whiteness-cited-as-reason-for-bike-friendliness-27130#comment-1481960 Paul Johnson Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:26:43 +0000 http://bikeportland.org/?p=27130#comment-1481960 If you can afford a Craigslist beater car, you can afford a quality bicycle, especially since the bicycle has a negligible cost of maintenance and isn't subject to wild fluctuations in fuel prices. Anybody who owns a car who says they can't afford a decent bicycle is either supremely bad with money or has no idea what they're talking about. If you can afford a Craigslist beater car, you can afford a quality bicycle, especially since the bicycle has a negligible cost of maintenance and isn't subject to wild fluctuations in fuel prices. Anybody who owns a car who says they can't afford a decent bicycle is either supremely bad with money or has no idea what they're talking about.

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