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	<title>Comments on: (Updated) BTA on CRC bike/ped design process: &quot;We&#039;re not going to play this game any more&quot;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751</link>
	<description>Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:42:47 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Seth Alford</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1410450</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Alford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1410450</guid>
		<description>The BTA is right for walking away from any under-bridge bike path design, regardless of guarantees of security patrols.  If this sort of facility was going to be securely maintained we&#039;d be able to point to similar facilities that are already securely maintained.  Instead, we have facilities like the Springwater bike path where there already have been security problems.

Even if somehow there was an agreed upon security plan, and there was gauranteed funding for the plan, it could still be derailed by one judge ruling that the homeless have a right to sit on the under-the-bridge bike path, just so long as they don&#039;t completely block the bike path.

Now if only the BTA would also more vigorously support projects that help people who are already bicycling, instead of things like the cycle track on Broadway, then I might actually renew my BTA membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The BTA is right for walking away from any under-bridge bike path design, regardless of guarantees of security patrols.  If this sort of facility was going to be securely maintained we'd be able to point to similar facilities that are already securely maintained.  Instead, we have facilities like the Springwater bike path where there already have been security problems.</p>
<p>Even if somehow there was an agreed upon security plan, and there was gauranteed funding for the plan, it could still be derailed by one judge ruling that the homeless have a right to sit on the under-the-bridge bike path, just so long as they don't completely block the bike path.</p>
<p>Now if only the BTA would also more vigorously support projects that help people who are already bicycling, instead of things like the cycle track on Broadway, then I might actually renew my BTA membership.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1410450" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1410450', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1410450-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bike militia</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1409344</link>
		<dc:creator>bike militia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1409344</guid>
		<description>The only question at this point is where can I donate money to the people who are going to stop the CRC in court?

Thanks for finally coming around, BTA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only question at this point is where can I donate money to the people who are going to stop the CRC in court?</p>
<p>Thanks for finally coming around, BTA.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1409344" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1409344', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1409344-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PDXme &#8250; PDXppl: Mark Ransom on the Columbia River Crossing</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1408383</link>
		<dc:creator>PDXme &#8250; PDXppl: Mark Ransom on the Columbia River Crossing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1408383</guid>
		<description>[...] seems to have become a buzz-word for a project that has frustrated stakeholders like the BTA, which wiped its hands clean of the public process surrounding the bridge design. With the City of Portland, Metro, the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] seems to have become a buzz-word for a project that has frustrated stakeholders like the BTA, which wiped its hands clean of the public process surrounding the bridge design. With the City of Portland, Metro, the [...]</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1408383" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1408383', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1408383-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joe Rowe</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1408378</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1408378</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad the BTA has taken these new brave steps.  There is some small risk in walking away from the table, but far greater risks if bike advocates attempt  negotiations with a process that has no room for stakeholder concerns.   

We should all beware any time we ask for something in writing and don&#039;t get it.

Thanks to Michelle, Scott and everyone at the BTA, this is much bigger than just a bridge.

There are so many ways to solve the concerns of cyclists and commerce without building one more lane to promote the single occupancy commuter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm glad the BTA has taken these new brave steps.  There is some small risk in walking away from the table, but far greater risks if bike advocates attempt  negotiations with a process that has no room for stakeholder concerns.   </p>
<p>We should all beware any time we ask for something in writing and don't get it.</p>
<p>Thanks to Michelle, Scott and everyone at the BTA, this is much bigger than just a bridge.</p>
<p>There are so many ways to solve the concerns of cyclists and commerce without building one more lane to promote the single occupancy commuter.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1408378" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1408378', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1408378-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vantucky matthew</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1407528</link>
		<dc:creator>vantucky matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1407528</guid>
		<description>politics and business as usual.  

the crc will proceed regaurdless of public sentiment or input.  by pulling out of the disscussion the bta is doing exactly what the political beauracracy wants.  and to think they were a big player in the decision process is just naive.  

i live in vancouver and have seen this firsthand.  in 1995 we overwhelmingly voted down bringing light rail into vancouver.  royce pollard has made it a personal mission to do otherwise.  vancouver has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in feasability studies to stay in the running for federal dollars despite the &quot;will of the people&quot;.  royce has even said publicly &quot;if you don&#039;t like it vote me out&quot;.  the crc and light rail funding will never be voted on in vancouver.  it will be a city council decision.  business as usual.  public meetings and committees are in many cases little more than dog and pony shows.  they may have some effect on a small scale but the major issues are decided for us.  that is the political reality.  

from what i&#039;ve gathered of the crc it is actually a reasonable and sound project.  adding merging lanes for on and off ramps and keeping the flow of traffic faster and safer.  the major downside is the impacted length is a fairly short one.  the commute from vancouver past delta park will be great but once freeway traffic gets into portland there will be higher commute times into downtown due to only having three lanes.  the clog will basicly be yours, just shifted south from vancouver, hayden island and delta park.  get ready folks!  mlk, vancouver, interstate, denver and all the other major north/south streets will get a huge boost in traffic.  tolling and better mass transit options will encourage folks to consider not driving.  

changing how people think about transportation is what is really needed and is long overdue.  even if it comes at the point of a stick.  poke, poke, poke...  

i ride to downtown portland several times a week lately and have been riding to portland for over 20 years.  I-5 just sucks for bikes.  not to mention the routes and transitions to interstate/denver and vancouver/williams av.  pretty much anything would be better.  i&#039;d rather have some voice in the process to improve it even if i&#039;m just a sqweaky mouse compared to the trumpeting elephant that is our government.  

a well lit, safe and clean bike path sound pretty good and quite attainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>politics and business as usual.  </p>
<p>the crc will proceed regaurdless of public sentiment or input.  by pulling out of the disscussion the bta is doing exactly what the political beauracracy wants.  and to think they were a big player in the decision process is just naive.  </p>
<p>i live in vancouver and have seen this firsthand.  in 1995 we overwhelmingly voted down bringing light rail into vancouver.  royce pollard has made it a personal mission to do otherwise.  vancouver has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in feasability studies to stay in the running for federal dollars despite the "will of the people".  royce has even said publicly "if you don't like it vote me out".  the crc and light rail funding will never be voted on in vancouver.  it will be a city council decision.  business as usual.  public meetings and committees are in many cases little more than dog and pony shows.  they may have some effect on a small scale but the major issues are decided for us.  that is the political reality.  </p>
<p>from what i've gathered of the crc it is actually a reasonable and sound project.  adding merging lanes for on and off ramps and keeping the flow of traffic faster and safer.  the major downside is the impacted length is a fairly short one.  the commute from vancouver past delta park will be great but once freeway traffic gets into portland there will be higher commute times into downtown due to only having three lanes.  the clog will basicly be yours, just shifted south from vancouver, hayden island and delta park.  get ready folks!  mlk, vancouver, interstate, denver and all the other major north/south streets will get a huge boost in traffic.  tolling and better mass transit options will encourage folks to consider not driving.  </p>
<p>changing how people think about transportation is what is really needed and is long overdue.  even if it comes at the point of a stick.  poke, poke, poke...  </p>
<p>i ride to downtown portland several times a week lately and have been riding to portland for over 20 years.  I-5 just sucks for bikes.  not to mention the routes and transitions to interstate/denver and vancouver/williams av.  pretty much anything would be better.  i'd rather have some voice in the process to improve it even if i'm just a sqweaky mouse compared to the trumpeting elephant that is our government.  </p>
<p>a well lit, safe and clean bike path sound pretty good and quite attainable.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1407528" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1407528', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1407528-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rev</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1405916</link>
		<dc:creator>rev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1405916</guid>
		<description>smarterbridge.org has some stuff on it, but its all pretty old.

smarterbridge.BLOGSPOT.com has got lots of good content, including a series of videos from Joe Cortright: http://smarterbridge.blogspot.com/2009/07/economy-of-future-part-1.html



thanks for taking a stand BTA! 

If people really want to stop this the best thing they can do is to tell a neighbor about it. Good luck everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smarterbridge.org has some stuff on it, but its all pretty old.</p>
<p>smarterbridge.BLOGSPOT.com has got lots of good content, including a series of videos from Joe Cortright: <a href="http://smarterbridge.blogspot.com/2009/07/economy-of-future-part-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://smarterbridge.blogspot.com/2009/07/economy-of-future-part-1.html</a></p>
<p>thanks for taking a stand BTA! </p>
<p>If people really want to stop this the best thing they can do is to tell a neighbor about it. Good luck everyone!</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1405916" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1405916', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1405916-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Peter W</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1404908</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1404908</guid>
		<description>Less of a hill is good, and I&#039;d prefer the lowest bridge of &#039;em all: an arterial bridge with an occasional lift. 

On another topic... I wonder how bad the designs would be if the process had been based out of Portland instead of Vancouver?  I&#039;m guessing the fact that WDOT is funding most of the planning doesn&#039;t help us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Less of a hill is good, and I'd prefer the lowest bridge of 'em all: an arterial bridge with an occasional lift. </p>
<p>On another topic... I wonder how bad the designs would be if the process had been based out of Portland instead of Vancouver?  I'm guessing the fact that WDOT is funding most of the planning doesn't help us.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1404908" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1404908', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1404908-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Racer X</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1404858</link>
		<dc:creator>Racer X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1404858</guid>
		<description>&#039;Good grief&#039;... bikes below means a lot less hillage to pedal up. 

&#039;Low is the way to go.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>'Good grief'... bikes below means a lot less hillage to pedal up. </p>
<p>'Low is the way to go.'</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1404858" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1404858', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1404858-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ruthie</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1404694</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruthie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1404694</guid>
		<description>Why are cars above and bikes/peds below? Who is this bridge for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are cars above and bikes/peds below? Who is this bridge for?</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1404694" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1404694', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1404694-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: peejay</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/26/bta-on-crc-bikeped-design-process-were-not-going-to-play-this-game-any-more-22751#comment-1404672</link>
		<dc:creator>peejay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=22751#comment-1404672</guid>
		<description>Good point, Joel. It&#039;s a shame that unions cannot realize that the type of development the CRC would encourage is just the kind that is bad for unions. Suburban voters tend to be more anti-union, for a variety of reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Joel. It's a shame that unions cannot realize that the type of development the CRC would encourage is just the kind that is bad for unions. Suburban voters tend to be more anti-union, for a variety of reasons.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1404672" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1404672', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1404672-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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