wow. helmets and helmet mirrors impairing vision? bike licences adding wieght? what planet do you live on? here on earth we don't consider those arguments valid.

take me to your leader.....

You might have noticed that very few people respond frequently to my comments, except you and steve, so no, I don't think that's happening. You guys just can't seem to get enough of them though. Whatever.

"...the lowest common denominator of the mostly-driving suburbanite; of a guy who doesnt ride in Portland."...That's quite a phrase...pat yourself on the back man! Tell us please: is that your contribution towards: " 'inform and inspire' " ?

I'm not sure what the phrase means...if it means anything at all. It just sounds like biased stereotyping to me, the way editor Maus advised readers of this weblog last year, that certain people with a bias against people that ride bikes use words such as 'cyclist' 'bike rider' 'biker', and so on, to create divisiveness, animosity and spread hatred amongst people.

Hey steve...sounds like you had a pretty good day!

If enough people do this consistently, sometimes offending public behaviors can be reversed, bringing the more favorable behavior to become accepted cultural practice. Haven't got any readily available examples, but there's likely some proof in history to bear this out.

Some people aren't going to feel able to do this, and so they shouldn't. If it turns out there isn't anyone that believes this kind of thing can work, at least to some worthwhile extent, what alternative are we left with?....

...I suppose some might say, just leave it to the cops...hire a bunch more cops...have lots more cops on every corner to go after every little lapse of behavior that ordinary citizens do not feel safe in commenting to the indiscreet about. Much safer that way...much easier...much more expensive too.

Very likely, we'll hear again from those that think that saying anything to strangers about errors in behavior will bring about nothing less than a violent assault or the onset of an authoritarian state. We should certainly always keep in mind the possibilities of this sort of thing happening.

At the other extreme, we have sociopaths whose behavior threatens harm to everybody around them.

In between those extremes, sensible people know to mind their tongues about perfectly legal behavior that is harming nobody, and also know that a healthy community doesn't let sociopathy take root unchallenged.

And yes, of course, we all get to express our opinion here, however repetitive, inflexible, and uninformed it may be. As I said, mine is that Beavertron sucks.

And: civility is first and foremost about controlling the behavior of the only person whose behavior you can control.

I know you will especially appreciate that advice, since you have seen fit to dole it out to others.

If you happen to have a problem with that or anything else I, or anyone else has to say, I suggest you heed this other excellent piece of advice again, courtesy of you-

"No one...no one... is forcing any of you to read any comments I post here on bikeportland. If you're sick of them as -blank- says he is...by all means...don't read them."

You know, instead of complaining like normal.

I don't expect everyone to like or appreciate the viewpoints I present. Maybe no one does. That's fine with me. Popularity contests? Not interested. Counterpoint, especially in a setting such as this, where the focus is fairly narrow, seems like a worthwhile thing. It can be a good way to get people to think and find out what they think.

I've made fun of people in the past. With a few exceptions, it's not what I'd do today. Some people seem to go out of their way to invite it, and some people, such as the boy bimbo, are fair game.

Discussing issues is something I consider worthwhile. Anyone that can do this in a civil fashion, staying above a junior high school spoiled brat level of behavior may have something worth listening to.

hurricane has very little knowledge of my familiarity with riding conditions in Portland, so I suppose his conclusion that I don't "...get a great deal of what it's like to ride a bike around in Portland." is based on assumption, intuition, or...something. If he's happy with that, it's fine with me.

Here's another of hurricane's thoughts:

"The guy running red lights will stop it if I just tell him how it makes me feel.Hilarious." hurricane

Who said the guy would stop under those circumstances? Not I. You and various other people seem to say; 'keep your mouth shut' 'do nothing' 'say nothing' 'mind your own business'. Well, that's just great. So all these people regularly showing no regard for others, come to think that since no one questions their actions, it's perfectly o.k. for them to blow stop signs, knock people off their bikes from a narrow sidewalk, and so on. Just lie down and die, is that it?

And discretion, as twistyaction seems to have effectively used in the incident described in #67, is one way to avoid possible violent response when deciding to comment about a fellow road users actions.

About Beaverton: It's actually a very interesting place, and beautiful too. Sure, there's some things about it that suck...really suck. Many people know this and work to make it better. The bike infrastructure needs a lot of work of course, and because this city lacks the better organized, compact grid of commercial downtown and connected neighborhoods that Portland has, riding on what infrastructure that has been built is probably less favorable to bikes than infrastructure in Portland.

But overall, the town does not suck, and it's shortsighted to say it is, not to mention insulting to what I'd daresay are the many avid bikeportland readers that live in and bike for both commuting and recreation.

Beaverton's central core; the two east-west thoroughfares in a 5-10 block(guessing roughly) around Freddies are pretty nasty for biking. Go any direction outside of that radius and there are many excellent ride opportunities, probably easily equal to what Portland, a city I've grown up with and have great affection for...has.

The Beav has hills to climb...readily accessible flat and rolling countryside...verdant parks. There's much, much more. And it's easy to get here quick with the bike on Max, and depart for a day excursion out of the core.I'm afraid that all of this is off topic, but maybe it's a good time to have brought it up.

"Personally, if you even have an automobile titled in your name, you don't belong in the bike policy forum. Just an opinion." vance

Vance, I know you can do better that.