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	<title>Comments on: Could a new plan for pedestrians help Hawthorne Bridge congestion?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601</link>
	<description>Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion.</description>
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		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1266036</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1266036</guid>
		<description>I just experienced the fall from sidewalk to the bridge grating yesterday.  Lots of peds, lots of bikes, a typical day.  As I passed a group of ped in a safe way another cyclist was racing the bridge, it caught me off guard.  I ended up in the ER getting stitches on my elbow and leg.

A solution might be railing on all parts excluing the lift span and that area should be a &quot;slow zone&quot;.

When we talk about no money for an ever growing concern shouldn&#039;t we dial it back and note that the loss of life is a far greater price to pay.

I got lucky and appreciate all those who stopped to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just experienced the fall from sidewalk to the bridge grating yesterday.  Lots of peds, lots of bikes, a typical day.  As I passed a group of ped in a safe way another cyclist was racing the bridge, it caught me off guard.  I ended up in the ER getting stitches on my elbow and leg.</p>
<p>A solution might be railing on all parts excluing the lift span and that area should be a "slow zone".</p>
<p>When we talk about no money for an ever growing concern shouldn't we dial it back and note that the loss of life is a far greater price to pay.</p>
<p>I got lucky and appreciate all those who stopped to help.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1266036" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1266036', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1266036-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1265822</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 04:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1265822</guid>
		<description>I love pedestrians.  Heck, I am one.

But, for everyone&#039;s safety, traffic rules on the Hawthorne bridge sidewalks have to change.  The &quot;dude, be mellow&quot; strategy is not a solution.
1. separate users at all times: bikes on one side, peds on the other.  Now that the weather is nice, the conflicts are not limited to weekday rush hours.
2. if we can&#039;t separate users, AT THE VERY LEAST traffic should be one-way for both bikes and peds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love pedestrians.  Heck, I am one.</p>
<p>But, for everyone's safety, traffic rules on the Hawthorne bridge sidewalks have to change.  The "dude, be mellow" strategy is not a solution.<br />
1. separate users at all times: bikes on one side, peds on the other.  Now that the weather is nice, the conflicts are not limited to weekday rush hours.<br />
2. if we can't separate users, AT THE VERY LEAST traffic should be one-way for both bikes and peds.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1265822" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1265822', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1265822-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kt</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1265562</link>
		<dc:creator>Kt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 19:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1265562</guid>
		<description>I agree with #69 and #88.

And everyone who is asking the bikes to SLOW DOWN and YIELD TO PEDS.

Look, the bridge is not that long.  You&#039;ll be delayed, what, 10 seconds? 15?  Less?  

It&#039;s the same logic us bike people use to ask cars to wait to pass us until it&#039;s safe.  You&#039;ll be delayed, what, 10 seconds?  15 seconds?

Get off your high horses, people.  Stop asking others to &quot;share to road&quot; (in this case, path/sidewalk) unless you plan to suit action to words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with #69 and #88.</p>
<p>And everyone who is asking the bikes to SLOW DOWN and YIELD TO PEDS.</p>
<p>Look, the bridge is not that long.  You'll be delayed, what, 10 seconds? 15?  Less?  </p>
<p>It's the same logic us bike people use to ask cars to wait to pass us until it's safe.  You'll be delayed, what, 10 seconds?  15 seconds?</p>
<p>Get off your high horses, people.  Stop asking others to "share to road" (in this case, path/sidewalk) unless you plan to suit action to words.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1265553</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 19:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1265553</guid>
		<description>REGISTER - LICENSE - INSURE - LICENSE PLATE

I agree that bicycle drivers should be separated from pedestrians.

Three years ago, I proposed to Sam Adams that EVERY bridge sidewalk be separated out by modality ... pedestrians on one-side and bike drivers on the other.

But none of this morning-this-way/evening=that-way complication.

The more scenic side of the Broadway, Steel, Burnside, Morrison, Hawthorne, Ross Island, and Sellwood bridges should be given over to pedestrians and the other, less scenic sidewalk should be reserved for bicycle drivers ... who should be paying more attention to their driving than to the scenery anyway.

It is NEVER safe to commingle metal objects traveling at a high rate of speed with vulnerable pedestrians.

In fact, Waterfront Park should have physically divided pedestrian and bike infrastructure, too!

The man at the town hall meeting with a state senator and state representative will tell you that getting hit by a cyclist driving his bike on a sidewalk is     VERY serious.

Being run down by a cyclist on the sidewalk is why his leg was amputated from the knee down.

Why did I start this post with REGISTER - LICENSE - INSURE - LICENSE PLATE?

Because not every cyclist involved in an accident stops like the guy on the Hawthorne Bridge did. We call not stopping hit-and-run. It&#039;s more difficult to run when someone can read your license plate and an individual who knows he can be identified is an individual more likely to drive his bike safely

Because a bicycle with a license plate is easier to recover when it&#039;s stolen.

Because that young dad killed last week was an &quot;uninsured motorist&quot; and now his little son&#039;s financial future is darker.

Because while a bicycle driver gets a $240 a year federal tax break for commuting by bike ... bicycle drivers skate when it comes to a measly $27 a year state registration fee ... that makes bicycle drivers look like they want something for nothing and doesn&#039;t help their cause.

One more thing ... there is NO MORE SUSTAINABLE WAY TO COMMUTE THAN BY WALKING!!!!!!

I walk! 

I don&#039;t need machinery made that spews carcinogens into the air while it digs for metal ore.

I don&#039;t need the metal smelted. Talk about carbon &quot;bike print&quot;!

I don&#039;t need all the accessories, all the rubber, all the oil for lubricants, all the spandex, and all the petroleum and carcinogens released into the air,

I don&#039;t need parts shipped from one country to another, to another for manufacturing.

Is there an environmental cost to making  shoes? Yes.

It&#039;s nominal when compared to the environmental cost of making a bike just like the environmental cost of manufacturing a bike is nominal compared to manufacturing a car.

One more thing. 

You&#039;re a pedestrian at some point in the day. 

You walk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REGISTER - LICENSE - INSURE - LICENSE PLATE</p>
<p>I agree that bicycle drivers should be separated from pedestrians.</p>
<p>Three years ago, I proposed to Sam Adams that EVERY bridge sidewalk be separated out by modality ... pedestrians on one-side and bike drivers on the other.</p>
<p>But none of this morning-this-way/evening=that-way complication.</p>
<p>The more scenic side of the Broadway, Steel, Burnside, Morrison, Hawthorne, Ross Island, and Sellwood bridges should be given over to pedestrians and the other, less scenic sidewalk should be reserved for bicycle drivers ... who should be paying more attention to their driving than to the scenery anyway.</p>
<p>It is NEVER safe to commingle metal objects traveling at a high rate of speed with vulnerable pedestrians.</p>
<p>In fact, Waterfront Park should have physically divided pedestrian and bike infrastructure, too!</p>
<p>The man at the town hall meeting with a state senator and state representative will tell you that getting hit by a cyclist driving his bike on a sidewalk is     VERY serious.</p>
<p>Being run down by a cyclist on the sidewalk is why his leg was amputated from the knee down.</p>
<p>Why did I start this post with REGISTER - LICENSE - INSURE - LICENSE PLATE?</p>
<p>Because not every cyclist involved in an accident stops like the guy on the Hawthorne Bridge did. We call not stopping hit-and-run. It's more difficult to run when someone can read your license plate and an individual who knows he can be identified is an individual more likely to drive his bike safely</p>
<p>Because a bicycle with a license plate is easier to recover when it's stolen.</p>
<p>Because that young dad killed last week was an "uninsured motorist" and now his little son's financial future is darker.</p>
<p>Because while a bicycle driver gets a $240 a year federal tax break for commuting by bike ... bicycle drivers skate when it comes to a measly $27 a year state registration fee ... that makes bicycle drivers look like they want something for nothing and doesn't help their cause.</p>
<p>One more thing ... there is NO MORE SUSTAINABLE WAY TO COMMUTE THAN BY WALKING!!!!!!</p>
<p>I walk! </p>
<p>I don't need machinery made that spews carcinogens into the air while it digs for metal ore.</p>
<p>I don't need the metal smelted. Talk about carbon "bike print"!</p>
<p>I don't need all the accessories, all the rubber, all the oil for lubricants, all the spandex, and all the petroleum and carcinogens released into the air,</p>
<p>I don't need parts shipped from one country to another, to another for manufacturing.</p>
<p>Is there an environmental cost to making  shoes? Yes.</p>
<p>It's nominal when compared to the environmental cost of making a bike just like the environmental cost of manufacturing a bike is nominal compared to manufacturing a car.</p>
<p>One more thing. </p>
<p>You're a pedestrian at some point in the day. </p>
<p>You walk.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1265553" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1265553', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1265553-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: A Portland Walker</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1265112</link>
		<dc:creator>A Portland Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 16:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1265112</guid>
		<description>Dear Portland Bicyclists,
  I&#039;ll stay out of your bike lanes if you stay off our sidewalks.
regards,
A Portland Walker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Portland Bicyclists,<br />
  I'll stay out of your bike lanes if you stay off our sidewalks.<br />
regards,<br />
A Portland Walker</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1265112" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1265112', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1265112-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: driveabus</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1264862</link>
		<dc:creator>driveabus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 22:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1264862</guid>
		<description>First you guys want motorists out of the way.  Now you want pedestrians out of the way.  How telling.  It really is all about you and your bike not being slowed down.  Reminds me of what many motorists say about bikes!

Maybe its the bikes that should be rerouted.  The pedestrians were on that bridge first.  Any bike rider who flies across that bridge with pedestrians (frequently families with small children in tow) present should have their bike taken away.

Grow up and realize the world does not revolve around you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First you guys want motorists out of the way.  Now you want pedestrians out of the way.  How telling.  It really is all about you and your bike not being slowed down.  Reminds me of what many motorists say about bikes!</p>
<p>Maybe its the bikes that should be rerouted.  The pedestrians were on that bridge first.  Any bike rider who flies across that bridge with pedestrians (frequently families with small children in tow) present should have their bike taken away.</p>
<p>Grow up and realize the world does not revolve around you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1264593</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 18:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1264593</guid>
		<description>We seem to be achieving a consensus of sanity, but I&#039;ll throw in my two cents anyway.

This is a bad idea on every level.

It ghettoizes pedestrians, who have lost so much right-of-way to cars, and are now threatened with losing more to bikes.  

It inflames the bogus &quot;Bikes vs Peds&quot; war.

And worst of all, it wouldn&#039;t make the bridge any safer.  Without the calming presence of pedestrian, bike speeds (some of them, anyway) would rise, and bike-on-bike crashes would become more frequent and more severe.

True, the Hawthorne Bridge is congested.  But nothing is going to ease that congestion.  If we add more lanes, then they&#039;ll fill up with more traffic.  If we ban pedestrians, then the space that they once took up will be filled with new bike traffic.  The real problem is one of excessive speed, of people trying to race through the congestion.

One of my neighbors, bless his heart, used to yell at cars who sped down our residential street.  He passed away a year ago today.  So, in his memory, I offer just the teensiest suggestion to those who feel the need to race on the Hawthorne Bridge:

&lt;b&gt;SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW DOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We seem to be achieving a consensus of sanity, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.</p>
<p>This is a bad idea on every level.</p>
<p>It ghettoizes pedestrians, who have lost so much right-of-way to cars, and are now threatened with losing more to bikes.  </p>
<p>It inflames the bogus "Bikes vs Peds" war.</p>
<p>And worst of all, it wouldn't make the bridge any safer.  Without the calming presence of pedestrian, bike speeds (some of them, anyway) would rise, and bike-on-bike crashes would become more frequent and more severe.</p>
<p>True, the Hawthorne Bridge is congested.  But nothing is going to ease that congestion.  If we add more lanes, then they'll fill up with more traffic.  If we ban pedestrians, then the space that they once took up will be filled with new bike traffic.  The real problem is one of excessive speed, of people trying to race through the congestion.</p>
<p>One of my neighbors, bless his heart, used to yell at cars who sped down our residential street.  He passed away a year ago today.  So, in his memory, I offer just the teensiest suggestion to those who feel the need to race on the Hawthorne Bridge:</p>
<p><b>SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW DOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!</b></p>
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		<title>By: Sharon Wood Wortman</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1264505</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Wood Wortman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 14:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1264505</guid>
		<description>PEDESTRIANS SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS ONE. Besides taking children walking on the bridge for my bridge walks -- needing both sides of the bridge -- to fully participate in the views of our city, I&#039;m a photographer. The views to south and north are very different over these 1910 railings, and I don&#039;t want to be cut off from either vantage. I vote no, and loudly so. Plus bicyclists get to go where they need to go faster than a pedestrian (don&#039;t we know), so why make the going any slower for walkers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PEDESTRIANS SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS ONE. Besides taking children walking on the bridge for my bridge walks -- needing both sides of the bridge -- to fully participate in the views of our city, I'm a photographer. The views to south and north are very different over these 1910 railings, and I don't want to be cut off from either vantage. I vote no, and loudly so. Plus bicyclists get to go where they need to go faster than a pedestrian (don't we know), so why make the going any slower for walkers?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Klotz</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1264069</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Klotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 03:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1264069</guid>
		<description>I agree with some posters who mention that there are fundamental differences between walking and bicycling. First, using the sidewalk does not mean you&#039;re even walking. You could be standing, talking to someone, looking at the view (especially from the Hawthorne bridge, with good views to the north and to the south), etc.  Second, on no sidewalk I know of are walkers ever restricted as to which direction they can walk.  A walker can easily decide they want to go back the other way.  It&#039;s easy to turn around.  You don&#039;t even need a 5 foot circle (except for wheelchair users).  You can backtrack, wander around, etc.

A commenter said that pedestrians could be walking four or five abreast, spreading into the bike lane.  There is no &quot;bike lane&quot; on the Hawthorne Bridge sidewalk.  It is a sidewalk where, as another commenter pointed out, pedestrians have the right-of-way, and bicyclists have to yield to pedestrians.  Now, there are the round &quot;badges&quot; which suggest a way to deal with this, but to my knowledge they have no legal force.  (And by the way, the pedestrian icons should be facing both east-bound and west-bound traffic, something the installers failed to do even though it was pointed out that they were doing car-think with their markings).

Like all sidewalks in this country, there should be no restrictions as to which directions pedestrians can walk on the Hawthorne bridge or approach ramp sidewalks. I would agree with improvements which allow bicyclists on current auto and/or bus lanes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with some posters who mention that there are fundamental differences between walking and bicycling. First, using the sidewalk does not mean you're even walking. You could be standing, talking to someone, looking at the view (especially from the Hawthorne bridge, with good views to the north and to the south), etc.  Second, on no sidewalk I know of are walkers ever restricted as to which direction they can walk.  A walker can easily decide they want to go back the other way.  It's easy to turn around.  You don't even need a 5 foot circle (except for wheelchair users).  You can backtrack, wander around, etc.</p>
<p>A commenter said that pedestrians could be walking four or five abreast, spreading into the bike lane.  There is no "bike lane" on the Hawthorne Bridge sidewalk.  It is a sidewalk where, as another commenter pointed out, pedestrians have the right-of-way, and bicyclists have to yield to pedestrians.  Now, there are the round "badges" which suggest a way to deal with this, but to my knowledge they have no legal force.  (And by the way, the pedestrian icons should be facing both east-bound and west-bound traffic, something the installers failed to do even though it was pointed out that they were doing car-think with their markings).</p>
<p>Like all sidewalks in this country, there should be no restrictions as to which directions pedestrians can walk on the Hawthorne bridge or approach ramp sidewalks. I would agree with improvements which allow bicyclists on current auto and/or bus lanes.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/14/could-a-new-plan-for-pedestrians-help-hawthorne-bridge-congestion-18601#comment-1263381</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 18:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18601#comment-1263381</guid>
		<description>C&#039;mon gang... it&#039;s a &#039;share-the-road&#039; issue.  It&#039;s a tight public right-of-way - let&#039;s figure out a way to all get along and utilize this situation as a way to promote more bike/ped facilities to relieve the sidewalk congestion.  Pedestrians are not the problem - pedestrians greatly augment the funding argument for bike/ped improvements.  Let&#039;s not set a horrible precedent of alienating pedestrians and dividing ourselves in this issue, particularly when we need to unify bicycle and pedestrian efforts to make the case for non-motorized travel even stronger.  The winds of change are in our direction.  Let’s not blow it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C'mon gang... it's a 'share-the-road' issue.  It's a tight public right-of-way - let's figure out a way to all get along and utilize this situation as a way to promote more bike/ped facilities to relieve the sidewalk congestion.  Pedestrians are not the problem - pedestrians greatly augment the funding argument for bike/ped improvements.  Let's not set a horrible precedent of alienating pedestrians and dividing ourselves in this issue, particularly when we need to unify bicycle and pedestrian efforts to make the case for non-motorized travel even stronger.  The winds of change are in our direction.  Let’s not blow it.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1263381" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1263381', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1263381-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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