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	<title>Comments on: Hawthorne Bridge rider comes forward to correct &quot;inaccurate depiction of events&quot;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426</link>
	<description>Portland Oregon bicycle news, events, culture, travel and opinion.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:42:47 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: commuter</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1264179</link>
		<dc:creator>commuter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 06:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1264179</guid>
		<description>it really doesn&#039;t do any good, ringing a bell or saying... yelling... singing....communicating... &quot;on your left!&quot; if the person &quot;being passed&quot; has white or black wires coming out their ears. I sit (i.e. coast) behind joggers often- &quot;on your left&quot;, *ding*, ding,  ding *ding*....they cant hear me cuz they gots their iTunes turned up. not safe...not safe at all...for anyone. give respect, get respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it really doesn't do any good, ringing a bell or saying... yelling... singing....communicating... "on your left!" if the person "being passed" has white or black wires coming out their ears. I sit (i.e. coast) behind joggers often- "on your left", *ding*, ding,  ding *ding*....they cant hear me cuz they gots their iTunes turned up. not safe...not safe at all...for anyone. give respect, get respect.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1264179" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1264179', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1264179-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tricia</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1263461</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1263461</guid>
		<description>@Ethan #8 (and anyone else...)

I&#039;ve had the same thing happen with people walking toward me... I&#039;ve started saying &quot;PASSING... On your left&quot; You have to look a bit further ahead, but it works much better to get a peds attention with &quot;passing&quot;. 

Also, I know many (most?) riders aren&#039;t calling out passing because 1. they never do when they pass me and 2. people look surprised or relieved when I do say passing. 

Best, T</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ethan #8 (and anyone else...)</p>
<p>I've had the same thing happen with people walking toward me... I've started saying "PASSING... On your left" You have to look a bit further ahead, but it works much better to get a peds attention with "passing". </p>
<p>Also, I know many (most?) riders aren't calling out passing because 1. they never do when they pass me and 2. people look surprised or relieved when I do say passing. </p>
<p>Best, T</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1263461" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1263461', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1263461-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: NB</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1263393</link>
		<dc:creator>NB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 18:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1263393</guid>
		<description>@ bob

FWIW -

Vance is a blowhard, but there is evidence that helmets are not all they cracked (ha) up to be. At the very least, they are only really useful at lower speeds, and community initiatives to spread helmet use come at the cost of better educating riders how to avoid crashing (into cars) in the first place. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html&lt;/a&gt;. Anti-helmet sites such as that also make an interesting point about helments being used to create a notion of bicycling as &quot;dangerous,&quot; which is patently untrue (statistically) compared to most anything else, &lt;i&gt;especially&lt;/i&gt; driving.

That said, I wear a helmet, and don&#039;t plan to stop doing so. I&#039;m not sure I agree that a helmet impedes your range or motion or anything like that (stocking caps aside), though the noise of wind through the helmet vents sure is annoying. Low level injury prevention seems like a useful thing. I also don&#039;t think helmets signify someone as a &quot;serious&quot; rider as Vance suggests - I would say that SPD pedals and spandex tend to play that role.

Should Erica have worn/not worn her helmet? This question seems kind of irrelevant. The more important question is how we can make the stream of traffic safer for everyone, including getting all riders to ride better as a group (less passing, more even flow). If all riders would just file across the bridge without trying to overtake each other, keep a safe distance away from each other, etc., bumping someone into the grating seems less likely. (Though with that said, until all bicyclists are robots who keep a constant distance from each other, and cars are outlawed on the roads, helmets seem like a useful safety precaution for a chaotic world. Just don&#039;t think that a helmet makes you immune from stupidity or bad riding.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ bob</p>
<p>FWIW -</p>
<p>Vance is a blowhard, but there is evidence that helmets are not all they cracked (ha) up to be. At the very least, they are only really useful at lower speeds, and community initiatives to spread helmet use come at the cost of better educating riders how to avoid crashing (into cars) in the first place. See <a href="http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html" rel="nofollow">http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html</a>. Anti-helmet sites such as that also make an interesting point about helments being used to create a notion of bicycling as "dangerous," which is patently untrue (statistically) compared to most anything else, <i>especially</i> driving.</p>
<p>That said, I wear a helmet, and don't plan to stop doing so. I'm not sure I agree that a helmet impedes your range or motion or anything like that (stocking caps aside), though the noise of wind through the helmet vents sure is annoying. Low level injury prevention seems like a useful thing. I also don't think helmets signify someone as a "serious" rider as Vance suggests - I would say that SPD pedals and spandex tend to play that role.</p>
<p>Should Erica have worn/not worn her helmet? This question seems kind of irrelevant. The more important question is how we can make the stream of traffic safer for everyone, including getting all riders to ride better as a group (less passing, more even flow). If all riders would just file across the bridge without trying to overtake each other, keep a safe distance away from each other, etc., bumping someone into the grating seems less likely. (Though with that said, until all bicyclists are robots who keep a constant distance from each other, and cars are outlawed on the roads, helmets seem like a useful safety precaution for a chaotic world. Just don't think that a helmet makes you immune from stupidity or bad riding.)</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1263393" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1263393', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1263393-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: wsbob</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262536</link>
		<dc:creator>wsbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262536</guid>
		<description>El Biciclero, this is true. It should fit close, but not tight. My helmet fit allows room to wear a bandana between the helmet and my head, that I&#039;ve knotted to improvise a kind of skull cap for cool weather riding. Without the bandana, the fit is looser... good for warm weather ...but not so loose the helmet slops around. 

I don&#039;t know what kind of experience it is that people so opposed to others wearing bike helmets could have had to make them attempt to so vigorously dissuade others of the benefit of wearing a bike helmet, but I think the result is unfortunate.

On editor Maus&#039;s other story: 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/11/hawthorne-crash-victim-shares-her-side-of-the-story/#more-18446&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rider injured on Hawthorne Bridge shares her side of the story&lt;/a&gt;

about the collision and crash, the thoughts of Erica Rothman (the young woman that was injured)about the question of whether to wear a helmet were summarized by editor Maus as follows: 

One thing she knows for sure is that she’ll never bike without a helmet again. She had one on during this recent crash, but told me she sometimes (used to) go without. editor Maus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>El Biciclero, this is true. It should fit close, but not tight. My helmet fit allows room to wear a bandana between the helmet and my head, that I've knotted to improvise a kind of skull cap for cool weather riding. Without the bandana, the fit is looser... good for warm weather ...but not so loose the helmet slops around. </p>
<p>I don't know what kind of experience it is that people so opposed to others wearing bike helmets could have had to make them attempt to so vigorously dissuade others of the benefit of wearing a bike helmet, but I think the result is unfortunate.</p>
<p>On editor Maus's other story: </p>
<p><a href="http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/11/hawthorne-crash-victim-shares-her-side-of-the-story/#more-18446" rel="nofollow">Rider injured on Hawthorne Bridge shares her side of the story</a></p>
<p>about the collision and crash, the thoughts of Erica Rothman (the young woman that was injured)about the question of whether to wear a helmet were summarized by editor Maus as follows: </p>
<p>One thing she knows for sure is that she’ll never bike without a helmet again. She had one on during this recent crash, but told me she sometimes (used to) go without. editor Maus</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262536" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262536', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262536-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262451</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262451</guid>
		<description>And if you think your kids should wear helmets, then probably should as well, whether you think you need to or not.

I don&#039;t care if people wear or not, but nothing make me shake my head like a bare headed parent following a helmeted kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if you think your kids should wear helmets, then probably should as well, whether you think you need to or not.</p>
<p>I don't care if people wear or not, but nothing make me shake my head like a bare headed parent following a helmeted kid.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262451" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262451', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262451-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: El Biciclero</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262424</link>
		<dc:creator>El Biciclero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262424</guid>
		<description>If anyone feels like wearing a helmet, make sure it FITS. Wearing a loose, poorly-positioned (too far back), or ill-fitting helmet is almost worse than nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone feels like wearing a helmet, make sure it FITS. Wearing a loose, poorly-positioned (too far back), or ill-fitting helmet is almost worse than nothing.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262424" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262424', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262424-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262324</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 20:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262324</guid>
		<description>All I said was &#039;no&#039; Bob. Remind me who is rambling again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I said was 'no' Bob. Remind me who is rambling again?</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262324" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262324', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262324-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: wsbob</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262253</link>
		<dc:creator>wsbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 18:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262253</guid>
		<description>&#039;nazi&#039;? Who&#039;s the nazi? Vance, you seem to be doing an extraordinary job of being one in comment #105. steve and Vance, do whatever you want. You don&#039;t want to wear a bike helmet? By all means, don&#039;t. 

But please, as you enjoy your liberty to not wear one, try not to contribute to screwing up someone else&#039;s life, causing them bodily harm through, the uninformed, ignorant, spoiled rambling both of you seem to enjoy using to attempt to discourage people from wearing bike helmets. 

You two dudes talk like examples of the last type of people to whom I&#039;d ever recommend wearing a helmet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>'nazi'? Who's the nazi? Vance, you seem to be doing an extraordinary job of being one in comment #105. steve and Vance, do whatever you want. You don't want to wear a bike helmet? By all means, don't. </p>
<p>But please, as you enjoy your liberty to not wear one, try not to contribute to screwing up someone else's life, causing them bodily harm through, the uninformed, ignorant, spoiled rambling both of you seem to enjoy using to attempt to discourage people from wearing bike helmets. </p>
<p>You two dudes talk like examples of the last type of people to whom I'd ever recommend wearing a helmet.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262253" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262253', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262253-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Vance Longwell</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1262149</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Longwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 15:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1262149</guid>
		<description>steve #104  Can I get an Amen!

&quot;Wear your helmet!!!!&quot;

No.
Why?
You wanna wear a little styrofoam cup on your head, more power to you.  You wanna pay my insurance, then maybe we can talk.  Until then, I&#039;d like to see a little more prudence used in deciding what superfluous garbage you wear on your head, and advocate for.

Motorcycle helmets do something.  Bicycle helmets are an affectation used by rookie cyclists to declare that they didn&#039;t buy their bike at Wal-Mart.  Or old people still caught up in the 70s, and the fight to have motorcyclists viewed as something other than long-haired outlaws.

You aren&#039;t benefiting anything, so there must be another reason you all wear your little toy helmets.  For most of you, your position belies your true intent.  Most of you wear a helmet out of allegiance to some dress-code you&#039;ve been led to believe identifies you as a, &quot;serious&quot;, cyclist.

This explains your fervor.  If you convince me to don one of those things, then you look that much less ridiculous.  I get it, I get it.

A BICYCLE helmet may save you some dermal-lacerations.  At a low enough speed it might even prevent a MILD concussion.  The price for these less-than-substantial/significant benefits is reduced range of motion thereby limiting field of vision, neck injuries from friction, the thing accidentally falling down and impairing your vision, the loss of cold-weather gear (If your helmet fits over a stocking-cap it&#039;s too big.), just to name a few.

Then this.  The first significant bump any helmet, including motorcycle ones, takes the helmet is done.  After-all, you want to split hairs to justify using one, so I&#039;ll do the same un-justifying it.  If the shell over the styrofoam is compromised, even microscopically, the helmets effectiveness is reduced to near zero.  That means all you helmet-nazis need to replace your funny hat every time you drop it, sit on it, bang it on your bike, etc.  You don&#039;t, so you obviously have some other agenda than safety.

THAT&#039;s why I must counter each and every one of you helmet nuts.  The fact is most of you helmet wearers are using defective safety equipment to start with, AND you advise I do the same.  

Like steve said:

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve #104  Can I get an Amen!</p>
<p>"Wear your helmet!!!!"</p>
<p>No.<br />
Why?<br />
You wanna wear a little styrofoam cup on your head, more power to you.  You wanna pay my insurance, then maybe we can talk.  Until then, I'd like to see a little more prudence used in deciding what superfluous garbage you wear on your head, and advocate for.</p>
<p>Motorcycle helmets do something.  Bicycle helmets are an affectation used by rookie cyclists to declare that they didn't buy their bike at Wal-Mart.  Or old people still caught up in the 70s, and the fight to have motorcyclists viewed as something other than long-haired outlaws.</p>
<p>You aren't benefiting anything, so there must be another reason you all wear your little toy helmets.  For most of you, your position belies your true intent.  Most of you wear a helmet out of allegiance to some dress-code you've been led to believe identifies you as a, "serious", cyclist.</p>
<p>This explains your fervor.  If you convince me to don one of those things, then you look that much less ridiculous.  I get it, I get it.</p>
<p>A BICYCLE helmet may save you some dermal-lacerations.  At a low enough speed it might even prevent a MILD concussion.  The price for these less-than-substantial/significant benefits is reduced range of motion thereby limiting field of vision, neck injuries from friction, the thing accidentally falling down and impairing your vision, the loss of cold-weather gear (If your helmet fits over a stocking-cap it's too big.), just to name a few.</p>
<p>Then this.  The first significant bump any helmet, including motorcycle ones, takes the helmet is done.  After-all, you want to split hairs to justify using one, so I'll do the same un-justifying it.  If the shell over the styrofoam is compromised, even microscopically, the helmets effectiveness is reduced to near zero.  That means all you helmet-nazis need to replace your funny hat every time you drop it, sit on it, bang it on your bike, etc.  You don't, so you obviously have some other agenda than safety.</p>
<p>THAT's why I must counter each and every one of you helmet nuts.  The fact is most of you helmet wearers are using defective safety equipment to start with, AND you advise I do the same.  </p>
<p>Like steve said:</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1262149" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1262149', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1262149-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://bikeportland.org/2009/05/08/hawthorne-bridge-rider-comes-forward-to-correct-inaccurate-depiction-of-events-18426#comment-1261056</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 00:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeportland.org/?p=18426#comment-1261056</guid>
		<description>&quot;Wear your helmet!!!!&quot;

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Wear your helmet!!!!"</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p><p></p><em>Recommended</em> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1261056" src="http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1261056', 'add', 'bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1261056-up" style="font-size:10px; color:#009933;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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