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Man on a bike hit from behind on SE Stark

Posted by Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor) on July 31st, 2008 at 4:21 pm

This just in from the Portland Police Bureau (emphasis mine):

"At 2:58 pm East Precinct officers were dispatched to the area of SE 147th Av/Stark Street on a bicyclist hit.

Officers arrived and determined that the bicyclist was hit by a vehicle driven by 23-year-old Lance Waddy. Waddy and the bicyclist were both traveling eastbound on SE Stark Street when Waddy struck the bicyclist from behind. The bicyclist, a white male adult, was thrown an estimated 138 feet. He sustained serious non-life threatening head injuries and transported to hospital.

Waddy was cited for Reckless Driving, No Insurance and Driving While Suspended. He was cited at the scene and released."

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Comments
  • Joel H July 31, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    \"... into a pit of angry tigers.\"

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  • Joel H July 31, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Wait, 138 feet? Seriously? How fast was this guy going?

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  • gabriel amadeus July 31, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    138 feet is a long ways. Not familiar with that part of stark, but dang. Hope he pulls through.

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  • Myra July 31, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    He shouldn\'t have been riding in the street! I suppose you bikers will all cry that Waddy doesn\'t have the right to drive recklessly without a license or insurance. Well, you don\'t have licenses or insurance!

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  • glenzedrine July 31, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    I\'ve ridden most of the east part of Stark, and it\'s not somewhere I\'m likely to ride often. I think Halsey is a much better choice. Still, if someone wants to ride on Stark by all means go for it. 138 feet? That\'s insane!

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  • SkidMark July 31, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    Was he wearing a helmet? Because he deserves his head injury if he wasn\'t.

    There, saved all you trolls some typing.

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  • wsbob July 31, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    Human cannonball on Stark Street. What fun. If the landing was asphalt or some other hard surface, I don\'t understand how someone even survives, being thrown 138 ft. The guy was injured, so at least the PD has its criteria for investigation. Can\'t wait to see how this one turns out.

    Troll love... . Ease up SkidMark, or maybe, just change your underwear?

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  • Kt July 31, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    I saw this news report on KGW\'s site, and thought the same thing: 138 feet? Holy cow. The driver had to have been speeding, at the very least!! What kind of impact force would it take to throw an adult man 138 feet?

    Hope he pulls through-- whether he was wearing a helmet or not.

    I\'m curious about what led up to the impact...

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  • wsbob July 31, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Is page two where these kinds of stories are going to be located from now on? Never would have noticed it except for the \'Recent Comments\' listing.

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  • Icarus Falling July 31, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Myra,

    You typed \"I suppose you bikers will all cry that Waddy doesn\'t have the right to drive recklessly without a license or insurance.\"

    The obvious response to that is \"He does not have the right to drive without a license or insurance, whether he was driving recklessly or not\".

    The law states very plainly that you must have a license and insurance to drive a car.
    There is no such requirement to ride a bicycle. Obviously. Oh wait, you know this, don\'t you?

    At this point, after reading your (snore) blog, and other comments here, it is amazing to me that you even know how to type.

    Honestly.

    Oh well, I guess it is true.

    Ignorance is bliss.

    I hope the biker is doing well.

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) July 31, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    \"Is page two where these kinds of stories are going to be located from now on?\"

    yes. probably. i\'ve been sort of conflicted about how to deal with all the reports i get about bike-involved crashes. they\'re not exactly news (we\'re all just traffic remember and sometimes we bang into each other) unless there\'s some extenuating or interesting circumstance (or unless it\'s a very serious injury or god forbid a fatality).

    what are your thoughts?

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  • wsbob July 31, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Editor Jonathon Maus, re; the location of stories related to collision incidents on pg 2; These stories needn\'t necessarily be located on the main page, but it\'s probably very important that visitors to the blog know exactly where they\'ll be.

    While on one level, people riding bikes for transportation on public streets are as you say \'just traffic\', because of the markedly expanding role they represent in the overall transportation picture, they\'re also an indicator of how the relationship between people riding bikes and people driving cars, together on the street, is shaping up.

    People interested in how that relationship is shaping up will probably be interested in studying these kind of incidents very carefully, to learn what happened, why, what reasonable things could have been done to keep them from happening, or reduce the trauma they produce.

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) July 31, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    thanks for that feedback wsbob. i agree that there is some valuable education that can be gleaned from sharing news of bike-involved crashes.

    i think I\'m leaning in the direction of putting them into their own category and running the \"Latest crashes\" in the sidebar.

    thanks,

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  • troll control August 1, 2008 at 12:16 am

    #10
    Don\'t feed it please, it will die. Its blog
    is about as entertaining as deciding whether the toilet paper should roll from the front, or the back. All seriousness aside, I think the Harpy is seizing itself on a popular topic that it really doesn\'t know anything about,or care,just to make a name for itself.

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  • Klixi August 1, 2008 at 1:41 am

    Not to go off on a tangent here, but I already predict this will turn into a huge pro-helmet declaration by many. If this cyclist wasn\'t wearing one they\'ll say \"see had he worn a helmet he would\'ve been fine\", and if he was wearing one they\'ll say \"see he would be dead if it wasn\'t for his helmet!\" They can spin it either way and beat all the non-helmet wearers over the head with it.. pun!

    I\'m just, as a non-helmet wearing rider, getting tired of everyone telling me why to wear one. :p

    Back on topic, I hope the cyclist recovers. Glad to hear his injury isn\'t life threatening... 138 feet, just wow.

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  • Toby August 1, 2008 at 7:43 am

    #14
    I agree completely, I scratched my name on its cave wall once, and have been tempted to throw some gristly mutton at its hairy feet whenever it defecates over here, but feeding strays always guaranties their return. Oh, and TP should roll from the front!

    Jonathan, I think a separate spot would be good. I might never have heard about it if someone didn\'t mention it on your forum, yet I don\'t really need lots of negativity thrown in my face every time I check your blog on page one. Sorry, never really seem to remember their\'s a page two. Of course, who\'s to say I\'d remember there was a separate spot?

    Thanks!

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  • Dr. Benjamin August 1, 2008 at 8:47 am

    \"what are your thoughts?\"

    Get a Page 2 RSS feed going! And maybe start feeding a few of your other things? Job postings, etc.?

    As for \"Traffic vs. Traffic\" going on page two- yes. Totally.

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  • Cruizer August 1, 2008 at 10:19 am

    Toby, #16, you\'re hilarious! Great imagery -- and I agree about the TP!

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  • Joel H August 1, 2008 at 10:48 am

    Thanks for continuing to post these, Jonathan. I hope you get new information on the recovery of the cyclist or from the police. I\'d really like to know why Waddy wasn\'t arrested.

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  • Matt August 1, 2008 at 11:08 am

    I know the bicyclist who was hit. He rides a lot and always wears a helmet while riding. From what I hear, he will be okay save for a few broken bones. Apparently, the driver was speeding (duh - 138 feet is pretty damn far). For the record, he also drives and does have both a license and insurance.

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  • Toby August 1, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I was on my way out the door when I posted previous and totally neglected my original intention.

    I would really like to learn more as it develops, as has been stated already, 138 feet, WOW! My prayers are with the victim and sympathies surely not with the driver at this time. I\'m glad the driver was at least cited at the scene.

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  • Matt August 1, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I just got an update on my friend. He\'s in the hospital still, but the prognosis looks okay. Sounds like he has some broken ribs, a collapsed lung, and a concussion. Apparently it\'ll be a long recovery, but he\'s expected to recover fully.

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  • Pete August 1, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Thanks for the update Matt. Let him know our thoughts are with him and wishes for a speedy recovery.

    Toby (#16): funny stuff!

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  • scoot August 1, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Thanks for the update, Matt (#22). Glad to hear he\'s going to be okay. When he\'s recovered enough, and if he remembers, see if you can get him to post here about his experience flying.

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  • Matt August 1, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Another friend who gave me the update said he\'d be bragging about this in 6 months... I\'m sure he\'ll love to tell the story :-)

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  • concerned cousins in Eugene August 1, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    This is the information that has been given to his very large extended family. We hope he will be laughing about this in six months, but from the list of injuries, this may not be totally realistic.

    \" The driver was going 40 miles and hour, looked
    away and then lost control of his car. His car is also totaled.
    Steve\'s head hit the windshield and then he was thrown 138\'. He has 12
    broken ribs, a broken scapula. His veretabrae around the spinal cord
    are ok but 20 of the 50 little spurs from the vertebrae are broken. He has no head injury, a slight collapse of 1 lung and a bruised lung. He is in a lot of pain. They are waiting to confer with the orthopedic doctors to see what they can do about all his broken ribs. He has no paralysis.\"

    Your best wishes and thoughts are appreciated.

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  • wsbob August 2, 2008 at 12:13 am

    Concerned cousin/eugene, thanks for the injury run-down. Definitely some good news there despite the obvious bad. It\'s remarkable that the rate of speed of the motor vehicle (assuming 40 mph is on the level)could project a human body that far. 12 broken ribs; that\'s almost as bad as James Chasse getting jumped by cop thugs, except in this instance, there was a survivor.

    Klixi, it won\'t be me telling you to wear a bike helmet, but doesn\'t the following excerpt from concerned cousin\'s post suggest something to you about the possible benefit of wearing one?:

    \"\" The driver was going 40 miles and hour, looked away and then lost control of his car. His car is also totaled.
    Steve\'s head hit the windshield and then he was thrown 138\'. He has 12
    broken ribs, a broken scapula. His veretabrae around the spinal cord
    are ok but 20 of the 50 little spurs from the vertebrae are broken. He has no head injury,....\"

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  • steve August 2, 2008 at 10:12 am

    wsbob-

    It was you telling some one to wear a helmet. You just typed it out for the world to see. Thanks.

    Can you add an addendum about how it is best not to speed while ignoring the road in front of you? Best not to drive while uninsured and without a license? I know you can find it in ya.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 2, 2008 at 11:02 am

    @Myra #4

    Gotta be pretty dumb to go crap on a bike blog thread about a cyclist that was put into traction by a speeding driver w/o license or insurance, while spending most of your free time being a ***deleted by moderator -- personal insults are not tolerated***:

    ***deleted. ... please do not share personal information ***

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew_ruess/

    http://andrew.ruess.us/

    http://digerati-corp.com/

    http://andyverse.net/

    Also - A registered democrat that drives an Armada? Talk about a closet case!

    Welcome to the internets, Andy. You\'ve earned it.

    [Note from Editor: Mr. Dobbs, please refrain from using the comments of this site as your launching pad for personal attacks. I am growing tired of comments that do not offer anything constructive to the issue at hand. Thanks. ]

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  • Robert Dobbs August 2, 2008 at 11:12 am

    ***Personal information of Mr. Ruess has been deleted***

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  • wsbob August 2, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    steve...***Personal insult deleted by Editor****

    And no, I don\'t tell people to wear a helmet, but I do advise everyone to be aware of the protection a helmet can offer them, so they may decide for themselves which situations to wear one in. What kind of person would read about this collision, how the guy on the bike\'s head hit the windshield, and still decide not to wear a bike helmet if they\'re thinking of riding in a similar situation?

    The presence of related laws should be enough to get the message across to motor vehicle operators that they are prohibited from driving without valid license or insurance. Of course, many of these people operate motor vehicles anyway. If they\'re choosing not to abide by the laws, they\'re unlikely to listen to advice that they follow them.

    By the way, if anyone knows the speed limit out there on SE 147th Av/Stark Street, that might be interesting to know. It must be at least 25 mph. If it was 35 mph, the driver, at 40 mph wouldn\'t have been speeding excessively.

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  • Paul Tay August 2, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    DMV should revoke DL. Judge should sentence the jerk to bicycle driving for LIFE. Some sort of ankle bracelet that sends a signal and makes a really ANNOYING wail if moving faster than 25 mph.

    Here in Tulsa Municipal Court, traffic court, judges NEVER ask how the jerks w/o DL and liability got to court. How are they leaving? They shore AIN\'T taking the bus.

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  • Forseti August 2, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    Wow, Robert Dobbs, excellent work at exposing the militant bicyclist-hater Andrew Ruess! ***Personal insult deleted*** you are, Mr Ruess.

    Your self-loathing must be magnified exponentially each time you reflect on the fact that Portland will be Andrew Ruess-free long before it will be bike-free. Hope you drive real carefully around those bicyclists from now on, Mr Ruess, because if anything were to happen it would be much easier to prove intent with respect to you than it would the average motorist.

    Also - you\'ll probably be hearing about my comments from the folks at McLoughlin Computers.

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  • Cruizer August 2, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Robert Dobbs @ 29
    How do you know it\'s Andrew Ruess?

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  • Robert Dobbs August 3, 2008 at 9:52 am
  • jj August 3, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    it would appear to me that that is a reply/comment from andrew ruess to myra/oregonamazon/bikefreeportland, not proof that myra=andrew ruess.

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  • Kt August 3, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Myra is a real troll... I made the mistake of going to Myra\'s blog once, that was a stupid thing to do. I could feel my IQ dropping.

    Back on-topic, Thanks, concerned cousins, for giving us the run-down on the injuries. What a scary experience! Hopefully, he\'ll heal up just fine, and quickly.

    Lesson: when driving, PAY ATTENTION.

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  • Duncan August 4, 2008 at 7:25 am

    cited and released? WTF batman?
    I am sorry but that sort of behavior needs a perp walk.

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  • Russ August 4, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Robert:

    So are you saying \"Myra\" is Andrew, or his wife Shana?

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  • Andrew Ruess August 4, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Hello all. I\'m Andrew Ruess. I do not have a clue as to who the hell is Myra.

    I would like to thank Robert Dobbs for calling me or provoking someone into calling to likely accuse me of something. Here on the intarwhebs, as he pointed out, \"I\'ve earned it.\" I do not make myself hard to find; a quick Google search will reveal almost anything you would like to know about me. Including my cell phone numbers and the business I run, Digeratius.

    However, I am not sure what I\'ve earned and why. I do not think stupid people doing stupid things, like Lance Waddy, is very humorous. Lance Waddy is a moron who should be locked up. The rules are here to protect people like us from people like him.

    Apparently being a democrat (committee chairperson for district 4309) and owning a large vehicle makes me a closet-case that hates bicyclists. If you can show me a way to transport my wife and two great danes in a more cost effective manner I would love to hear it. Also make sure your solution is capable of towing a service trailer that weighs about 4k pounds. I\'d be happy to pick one up.

    I am also a computer dweeb that runs a computer dweeb business. I guess that means I hate bicyclists again. Especially the three employees that bike and/or walk to the office. And my requirement that my service fleet average more than 30mpg. And the fact I\'m evaluating the Miles electric vehicle for business use.

    Some other things that indicate I\'m a bad person: I just had SolarCity install panels on my personal residence, meaning that the summer months will leave me with a carbon neutral or negative footprint, and will likely do the same thing for my office building next year. I also drive a Nissan Altima Hybrid as a primary vehicle, mostly for business activities.

    Maybe Robert is upset that I believe bicyclists are one of the many solutions to solving a lot of society\'s problems. However I do believe a more measured, safety-oriented approach is warranted... like having bicycles wear license plates and making sure bicyclists are properly trained. You know, like motorvehicle drivers. Mandating helmets isn\'t a horrible idea in my opinion either; no different from a seat belt and we all seem okay with that decades later.

    So, Robert, if you have problems with a pretty green guy running a pretty green business, please make sure you keep posting my telephone number around online and calling me a dweeb. I really appreciate it. Thanks! =)

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  • Russ August 4, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Andrew,

    Thanks for posting and welcome to Bikeportland! I don\'t know why Robert Dobbs thought Myra was you, but he did find you linked to the troll via a comment linked to her:

    http://twitter.com/andrewruess/statuses/865821899

    As you can imagine, people who visit or regular this site are a bit sensitive to getting run over by cars and trucks - go figure.

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  • Andrew Ruess August 4, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Hi Russ:

    Thanks for finding that. I had no idea how I got involved here, especially with telephone calls.

    Oh, and Christopher Heeps, maybe not call me in the future if you aren\'t going to tell me what it is about.

    And Robert? Good job. Pat yourself on the back. Welcome to the intarwhebs.

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  • Carl August 4, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    (Robert Dobbs and fellow witchburners, you owe Mr. Ruess an apology. Disgusting.)

    I feel incredibly safe riding a bike in Portland. I know that it\'s getting safer and safer ever year despite increased coverage of incidents like these. That said, my frequent decisions to not wear a helmet (I\'m a careful bicyclist!) are certainly called into question by stories like these where there\'s likely nothing the cyclist could\'ve done, careful or not, to avoid being hit.

    Still, be careful out there. No reason not to.

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  • jack August 4, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Andrew Ruess once turned me into a newt

    ...i got better

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  • Forseti August 4, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    I apologize Mr Ruess.

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  • SkidMark August 4, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Re: licensing bicyclists

    At what age do you license a bicyclist?

    If there is a an age restriction, how do you bike somewhere with your children?

    If you are extremely poor and/or homeless how do you pay for it, or get a license without a home address?

    Are we going to criminalize children and homeless people, chasing them down for not having a license plate?

    Cycling needs to be promoted to children, licensing stands in the way of that. So does punishing someone for simply riding a bike down the street.

    Cycling needs to be accessible to EVERYONE, licensing stands in the way of that.

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  • Graham August 4, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    I think the witch hunt came about because in post #4 by Myra, she had, in the \"Website\" field, a link to a twitter comment - attributed to Andrew - that said something negative about cyclists (the twitter link is now dead, apparently). Myra\'s posts usually have, in that same \"Website\" field, a link to her very bike-unfriendly blog.

    I had the bad feeling that, just because Myra\'s comment linked to a twitter with Andrew\'s name on it, someone assumed that they must be one and the same person. However, that\'s a big assumption, and there\'s obviously no grounds for it - you can put any web site you want in that field. And really, there\'s not even any certainty that the twitter comment actually came from Andrew. Or, for that matter, that the guy posting above is really Andrew (though that seems a valid assumption).

    It\'s all assumptions, few of which are solid enough to warrant harassing someone.

    Personally, I never use my real name, and never assume I know who I\'m talking to. And I mostly try to be nice, unless I\'m talking about the Oregonian, or bike-harassing traffic cops. Or bad drivers. Or CRC developers. I might be forgetting someone...

    Anyway, this xkcd cartoon pretty much says it all regarding internet arguments: http://xkcd.com/438/

    So yeah, welcome, Andrew. And kudos on a level-headed response to what seems to be an unfounded attack. Also, \'gratz on going carbon-neutral/negative!

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  • Mick August 4, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    I \"follow\" Andrew Ruess on Twitter and in my experience he is neither a troll nor an ill-tempered individual. I was shocked that Robert Dobbs had \"found\" otherwise. Obviously, Mr. Dobbs has been proven wrong.

    Now, will the apologies be as heartfelt and lengthy as the vituperation towards Mr. Ruess?

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  • Mick August 4, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Also, Jonathan, I\'m disappointed that you would edit whatever insults that Dobbs directed at Andrew but still allowed multiple phone numbers to be posted. That\'s a real WTF!

    [Editor\'s note: Hi Mick. I\'ve had time to re-read this comment thread and I\'ve deleted many passages in comments that I felt were inappropriate. Thanks for your feedback.]

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) August 4, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    \"Also, Jonathan, I\'m disappointed that you would edit whatever insults that Dobbs directed at Andrew but still allowed multiple phone numbers to be posted. That\'s a real WTF!\"

    Mick. FYI I emailed Andrew directly to ask what the heck this thread was all about. He has no problem with his email and business phone number being listed. I deleted his mobile number at his request.

    i sort of regret not just deleting this whole thread to begin with.

    i really don\'t like to squash any direction comments take, but its threads like this that make me want to start just deleted everything and really getting more stern with folks.

    Please everyone, can we stick to the issues and only delve into personalities when they have a direct and important tie to the story?

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  • Peter August 4, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I kind of disappointed that you didn\'t quash the whole thing when accusations started, instead of let it devolve into what it is now. I don\'t even see how, if Andrew WAS Myra, that posting his personal information is relevant.

    Seriously, this whole situation does give bikers in PDX a bad name.

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  • Andrew Ruess August 4, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    @45 - Apology accepted Forseti.

    @46 - I completely agree with these tough questions. They do need to be answered for what I propose. But I argue that we can take the same approach to motorvehicles and apply them in similar, safe ways.

    We can all agree that riding a bike in a park, private area, or neighborhood streets on sidewalks should be kept as a completely open and unregulated area. Biking is a tradition that many kids do enjoy and grow up learning; recreational biking should enjoy the same freedom for all ages.

    I think the Portland faces the fairly typical problem of growing urban centers in America: more people, more cars, more bikes... same roads. Lets take downtown Portland as an example.

    Many likely agree that the current parking situation is already untenable: businesses and commuters already face a difficult proposition parking. Removing street-parking in favor of dedicated bike lanes seems foolish. Without these parking spaces and loading zones commerce in the downtown area would face a huge setback, where a lot of Portland\'s business taxbase lives and breathes.

    One suggestion I\'ve seen thrown around is the creation of a downtown vehicle tax: any vehicle that passes between the West Hills and the waterfront on surface streets needs to pay a toll. Enforcement is fairly simple; much larger cities like London already do a great job at this. But critics argue that this increases the cost of business in the vital city center and would drive some businesses to the east and the west. As a business owner, I would be \'ok\' with this. Our white-collar clients would likely continue paying any bumped fees I would pass along because of the tax, and they in turn would increase the cost of their services to their clients.

    A variation of this would be the elimination of non-business vehicles downtown, either threw high taxation or specific legislation. Again I do see this as doable; we have a great public transportation infrastructure and forcing more people to use it would make us healthier (more walking, less cars on the road) and downtown prettier.

    Regardless of what we will do in the future as a long term strategy, the reality of right now is that bicyclists inhabit the same narrow, dangerous roads in Portland as normal motorvehicles. To that end I think we need to make a couple of changes:

    Traditional motorvehicle drivers education needs to include understanding of bicycle signs, rules, and road etiquette.

    Licensing a bicyclist for on-road biking should be done at 18 years of age. This should be done for riding outside of neighborhoods; maybe definition should include streets with traffic controls more complicated than Stop signs. And the age restriction is again only for on-road biking.

    Licensing should be inexpensive; perhaps $25 per decade (which would also be the period of validity and expiration). I argue that while requiring an address will prove difficult for a subsection of the population, it is necessary to maintain the responsibility of all partners. Much in the way that vehicle licenses plates hold drivers responsible for their actions, so will bicycle license plates.

    The discussion that cycling needs to be accessible to everyone could also be made of motorvehicles, but we have come to accept it as a part of our society. I do not believe licensing stands in the way of bicycling. Regulating it will make it safer, like it has for almost every other industry, profession, and activity. Many people make the point that, ‘its just biking,’ but like driving or boating people can become seriously injured or die.

    @49 - Mick, I’m okay with my business phone number and personal GrandCentral phone number being published; I love when people give me a call to talk about something. It does make communication much more human when someone picks up the phone. =)

    I really doubt Robert Dobbs would have called me names or insulted me had he just called one of the phone numbers he posted and asked me a question. But he doesn’t appear brave enough to show back up and apologize for being rude. So more power to him. =|

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  • SkidMark August 4, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    So what about before you are 18? You can\'t ride a bike in the street, perhap to school or sports practice after school, maybe to the store. How does this encourage cycling? And won\'t these teenager be pulled over constantly and harassed for not license plate? How does that encourage cycling, or make for good Police relations?

    How about just EDUCATING kids on the correct way to ride a bike, what side of the streets, what the rules of the road are, safety gear, etc.? Why is the answer always MORE RULES?

    We have enough rules already dammit.

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  • SkidMark August 4, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Responsible for what? The rash of hit and runs by bike where the person in the car dies? Oh wait, I got that backwards. If it is running from the cops, they have quite an advantage with cars, motorcycles, radios, and an arsenal of weapons they are quite willing to use.

    And who gets hit the hardest? Bike collectors and custom bike builders. We get bikes cheap, fix them up, and then we get plowed by the state having to go get multiple license plates. Would I even be able to register a tallbike or a chopper, or would it be deems \'unsafe\' by some bureaucrat who doesn\'t even ride a bike? How come affluent people want to take everything cool out of the hands of the people who are the backbone of it, sanitize it and try to sell it back to us for twice the price, after removing it\'s soul?

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Andrew:

    I like how you memory hole\'d your anti-bike twitter to Myra, then get all sanctimonious on us.

    \"Can\'t wait for the bikapocalypse\"?

    You are an anti-bike zealot and you deserve to be called out on it.

    As my grandma used to say,

    \"Toughski Shitski\"

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 9:06 am

    ALL:

    Andrew said effectively in his twitter to the unrepentant anti-bike troll, Myra \"I hate cyclists. I can\'t wait for the bikeapocalypse\". He then memory hole\'d that tweet and went on to blather at length on this blog about what a great guy he really is.

    Andrew puts his personal information online in shameless self-promotion then has the balls to tounge-lash anyone who holds him accountable, namely me.

    Andrew, you are ***Personal insults deleted by Editor***. Cut the crap and own up to it already. Your long-winded whining about how \"green\" you are is obviously whitewash.

    I didn\'t know you, didn\'t call you, and don\'t care. I owe you no apology.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Finally re: licensing of cyclists/cycles.

    You really love the DMV eh? Wanna create hundreds of thousands of dollars in new overhead state wide, just to get at \"those damn cyclists\"?

    I find it particularity hilarious when \"conservatives\" demand that a corrupt, inefficient, bloated industry be expanded just to make everyone suffer as much as motor vehicle operators.

    Anyhow, this has always just been a slap at relatively anonymous cyclists who are annoying at worst to other road users. The potential for harm simply does not exist for this type of road use, and doesn\'t begin to justify the societal cost of additional regulation.

    Cycling in addition to being the most efficient form of transport, is the most egalitarian form available to healthy citizens. It allows anyone, with modest means, to travel and participate in a geographically spread out society.

    It\'s no new news, I suppose. Authoritarians only have one tool available to them, and their arguments typically reflect this. Yawn...

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  • grant August 5, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Robert Dobbs,

    Please post your email and work phone number so those of us who wish to can communicate with you off line. Seems fair since you don\'t have any issues posting other peoples contact information.

    As always those who can\'t win an argument through logical and thorough presentation of their position resort to name calling and accusations without proof.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 9:50 am

    grant -

    Your logic is flawed. I\'m not on the internets to promote myself, Andrew is.

    I am merely holding Andrew Ruess to his words, proof of which he is trying to hide.

    That is all.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 9:57 am

    Yay Google:

    @OregonAmazon fight the power man. I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon. =)

    http://tinyurl.com/5pgkg8

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 10:04 am

    And just in case that gets memory-hole\'d by Andrew Ruess, too:

    http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8159/ruesslp2.jpg

    Stop being a weasel, Andrew. Own up to your words.

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  • Peter August 5, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Wow Robert, you just can\'t admit that you were in the wrong. Way to go. *golf clap*

    way to show him. You drag someone into this when they have zero connection to the story, and then say you were right to do so.

    wow, just..... wow

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 10:56 am

    Hey Robert: my comment was in regards to a private message from this individual, OregonAmazon, on twitter. He spoke of multiple accidents caused by bicyclists in front of his workplace.

    I have seen the same thing happen at my office building; bicyclists who haven\'t been properly trained either run into cars or have accidents. Sandy has become a hotspot for this kind of thing every since they decided to take out street parking and put in islands. Many more bicyclists than you care to admit do not have proper training... and some lack common sense, much like motorvehicle drivers.

    Without better training, certification, and licensing on both sides of the bicycle debate people will continue to get hurt. And a bikepocalypse will likely happen.

    Robert, should we also hold you to your words that I\'m a douchebag dweeb? I mean... you are so informed as to my personal character. But since we are on the intarhwebs apparently anything goes, correct?

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 11:04 am

    And concerning the licensing of bicyclists I still believe this is a good compromise. It keeps everyone safer and promotes responsibility. If someone does something bad you can write down a bike license plate and call it in... like you can do for motorvehicles. If I see a bicyclist or motorvehicle driver putting other people at risk I would do that. I already do that. Would you not call it in Robert? Why should people on bicycles have anonymity when motorvehicle drivers do not? This is a societal issue, and I think we should error on the side of keeping society safe.

    Regardless, this specific article isn\'t about me or your opinions of me. It is about a hit and run because a driver was being dumb. Robert, would you be screaming at bikers if the bicyclist had been drunk, acting unsafe on the road, and caused two motorvehicles to hit each other to avoid the bicyclist?

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Peter @62

    You drag someone into this when they have zero connection to the story, and then say you were right to do so.

    Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.

    Andrew Ruess @64

    Would you not call it in Robert?

    I never, ever said that cyclists should get a free pass for bad behavior. In fact, if you read this blog, you would see that I chastise red light runners frequently. Typical anti-bike straw man.

    my comment was in regards to a private message from this individual, OregonAmazon, on twitter. He spoke of multiple accidents caused by bicyclists in front of his workplace.

    I think your tweet to Myra speaks for itself, and I see no reason to respond to your rationalizations.

    @OregonAmazon fight the power man. I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon. =)

    This is a societal issue, and I think we should error on the side of keeping society safe.

    Licensing cyclists or bicycles does not keep anyone safer. Your examples are pure hyperbolic nonsense. I keep waiting for \"Won\'t somebody think of the children?\" to dribble out of your mouth.

    The societal harm by discouraging a safe and egalitarian mode of transport far outweighs the \"gains\" of being able to call in a ticket on that cyclist you saw rolling a stop sign from the seat of your SUV.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Also, and perhaps most importantly -

    I hope to god or whatever that you, Andrew, can see the PROFOUND irony of calling for the licensing of cyclists in a thread where a cyclist got smashed all to hell by a unlicensed, uninsured car driver.

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  • SkidMark August 5, 2008 at 11:52 am

    I like how you continue to ignore my logical and practical questions about implementing a bicycle licensing program. I do have one more question about it though, how do you prove ownership? If you buy a bike at Goodwill it comes with a reciept but there is nothing on that reciept that indicates that it is for your bike. Nobody really gives reciepts on craiglist or at yard sales either. Hand-me-downs from parents or relatives don\'t have reciepts either. I guess in your world people only buy brand-new bikes with a credit card.

    I don\'t understand how it promotes responsibility. If you make a moving violation on your bike and a cop sees you, he pulls you over. are you trying to say that people obey they laws in their cars because they have license plates? People still do all manners of stupid crap in cars, including hitting pedestrians and cyclists and driving away. That license plate did a lot to promote responsibility. About as much as the (suspended) license.

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Robert, I had not heard of your or this website prior to yesterday, when you picked up the phone and began to harass me.

    I wish I too could call on the power of the Google cache to highlight the foaming-at-the-mouth craziness you reserved for me, but the moderator deleted your comments before they could be indexed. I think you said something along the lines of me being a closet-case fascist totalitarian libertarian conservative liberal that hates you and your way of life?

    You mean... like how you appear to hate my way of life? You don\'t even know if I\'m a bicyclist!

    Ad hominem attacks do not help your argument. They make you look infantile and unprepared for a real discussion, which other people have started on this thread.

    This, along with your other attacks, name calling, and general behavior, make it difficult to believe that you \'chastise\' red light runners frequently. And your use of the term, compared to the other aggressive language you have reserved for people like me, make it seem that bicyclists do not need to play by the same rules as normal motorists. Especially when you then turn to someone of a differing opinion, like myself, and manage to unleash an inordinate amount of hatred for thinking all road travelers should be responsible and accountable.

    Licensing promotes responsibility and accountability. The man in this article will face those because he performed multiple illegal activities. If I see a bicyclist put motorists in danger... what do I do? Call the emergency (or non-emergency, depending on situation) and report that, \"well, I guess he was on a green bike... and wearing a cyclist outfit?\" Society implemented license plates for that kind of issue.

    And yes, bicyclists can cause danger to other motorists: we have all seen it happen. Which is why all parties that inhabit the road need to be trained and certified.

    So please do not respond to my rationalizations... Like. You. Keep. Doing.

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  • Peter August 5, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Lie with the dogs wake with the fleas? Do you have any proof of this? No you have self righteous anger, which only plays into the hands of people who want to promote this \"us vs them\" mentality.

    People like you allowed the Oregonian to so easily create this air of tension between cyclists and drivers. People like you set a bad example to people who do not cycle.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Peter @69

    Do you have any proof of this?

    http://tinyurl.com/5pgkg8

    http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8159/ruesslp2.jpg

    Andrew @68

    One thing I\'ve learned about you, is that you really, really like the sound of your own voice.

    Also, I never called you. You brought that on yourself by making yourself a public figure and publicly aligning w/ Myra. I just called you on it. Do you need a Waaaahmbulance?

    As far as a \"real discussion\" goes, you don\'t seem to be all that interested in one, either:

    http://friendfeed.com/e/c6caf1e3-1f4d-1918-13aa-f509184afa12/Everyone-thinks-the-internet-is-a-wild-wild-west/

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    @67 SkidMark: I am not continuing to ignore your concerns about implementation, I believe I have only made one follow-up post about it. And I am too thinking of the practical concerns about implementation.

    Looking back I didn\'t clarify my thoughts on the logistics of registering a bike. It would make sense to only require licensing for the riders that go on public roadways. Much like buying a used car or motorbike the onus for registration of the vehicle lies with the buyer, not the seller. I might be mistaken, but I believe car dealerships do not have to register a new car when you buy them, but they do anyway for liability and ownership reasons (if you drive off with a new car and get in an accident but it isn\'t yet in your name...). I\'ve purchased used vehicles off Craigslist and the only thing I do is fill out the DMV certificate and mail it in (if it has plates).

    And individual bicyclist licenses can be selectively enforced for people that use public roads. That is the dangerous area, and necessary training helps protect the bicyclist and motorist.

    I do believe that licensing promotes responsibility by creating accountability. Bad things can be tracked. I do, however, think it would be foolish to suggest that these are mutually exclusive: creating licensing prevents bad things from ever happening again. But, like for motorists, they do decrease the number of incidents. The world is not as bad a place as we see it on television. I think the Portland metro area has about 2 million people now: if we went small and said only 500,000 cars are on the road every day... that is a lot of responsible drivers. I submit that licensing is part of the reason why.

    Much like the origin of this article: this guy had an out of date license and did some really bone-headed things that could have hurt a lot more people. And if Lance Waddy had driven away someone would have been able to track him down via license plate.

    I think Robert Dobbs behavior illustrates this perfectly: no accountability and things start to get a little crazy.

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    @70 Robert, I do love the sound of my own voice. It is how I get paid.

    And very slick, I\'m happy to see there is no litmus test for letting people utilize the blank caller ID feature. The voicemails you\'ve been leaving are so very lovely. And nice touch on copying all of my feeds into a friendfeed profile: I see you\'ve put a lot of work into making things up and attributing them to my twitter account.

    Could you stop calling me in the middle of the day though? I\'m busy, you know working, hence the not picking up the phone. I\'d be happy to call you back, just leave your info in the next crazy ranting voicemail.

    A real discussion is happening here. But apparently other people with different opinions are not okay with Robert Dobbs.

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  • Mick August 5, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Jonathan:

    This Robert Dobbs character seems to be completely off the rails. Isn\'t he violating your rules about personal attack on Andrew Ruess?

    Also, whether Andrew minds his personal info being published here seems irrelevant. In the general case, it seems like a bad idea and that\'s what you should be enforcing.

    All IMO.

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  • jack August 5, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Dobbs you and Myra go hand in hand, flip sides of the same coin

    Let it go or seek help

    At the very least man up and post your personal info like you did so casually with andrew\'s

    On the off chance that this is still a legitimate space for knowledge transfer what news on the cyclist that got injured?

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  • Mick August 5, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    The licensing idea is intriguing to me. I would sure love to be able to jot down a license plate number when I see a red light runner.

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  • SkidMark August 5, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    So Andrew, what about kids on bikes using public roadways to get to school, etc. If they can\'t get a license until they are 18, will they still be allowed to ride on the street? If not, how does this promote cycling to the youth? How could how go on a family bike ride with your kids?

    I guess you\'ve never bought an old car without a title, and had to do all the title search backgroound BS to get it on the road. It\'s easy with a car because ownership records actually exist. With the majority of bikes this is not the case.

    I\'m just trying to point out what a giant clusterf*ck licensing bikes would be.

    Maybe EVERYONE should have a license plate on their back at all times, that way if someone commits an assualt, robbery, rape, or drug deal, you can write down the license number on their back. I really don\'t understand why moving violations would be more important than grand theft or violent crime. It would make the streets a lot safer.

    How would big number plate look on the back of your business suit, Andrew?

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    For the record, I\'ve never once called Andrew Ruess on the phone or otherwise, and I am not part of some vast conspiracy to defame him. He has already been caught deleting his tweets, so I guess revisionist history is not beyond him.

    He is being hung with his own words and can\'t take it.

    Also, keep in mind that \"Mick\" aka Rynosoft is a sycophant of Andrew and came here at his behest. Take his comments with a grain of salt.

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Also - I am not posting my contact information here because I don\'t want to. Problems? Questions? Concerns? You know where to find me. I\'ll reply if I feel like it.

    Yes, even though it appeared that Myra fingered Andrew on that initial post - she fingered him because he overtly supported her. He deserves to be called out on that, and it is he that published his contact information in the first place - I merely collected it in a couple comments here.

    Anyhow, I\'m done.

    Andrew, again, welcome to the internets.

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  • Peter August 5, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Robert, please, for the sake of everyone, move out of your parents house.

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  • jack August 5, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    re: #77 He is being hung with his own words and can\'t take it.

    actually Dobbs, after you labeled him as a member of the \'them\' team Andrew came confidently into the \'us\' territory and garnered public sympathy from the \'us\' team. All the while not crying about your inarguable infantile/intimadation oriented methodoly of posting his personal info in place that really focuses the hate of the \'us\' team.

    in other words..he thrashed you in your home territory

    on a completely different topic does anyone know the definition of punked?

    lol

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  • Peter August 5, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    /agree with #80

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  • Robert Dobbs August 5, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    jack @80

    \"I hate the bikers\" is \"us\"?

    News to me, and many of \"us\", I suppose.

    Oh, but you aren\'t one of \"us\" either. You\'re just one of Andrew\'s sycophants drawn into this from Twitter. Yawn...

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  • Whiney McWhinerson August 5, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    It may be unfair, but I take it personally when any one says \"I hate the bikers\" along with a pseudo threat. Really? You do? Well, guess what? I don\'t think I like you very much either.

    I\'ll side with Robert on this one.

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  • jack August 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    re: #82

    don\'t know andrew, never used twitter, offended by your mistaken public outing, refusal to admit wrongdoing, and compounding of your foolishness by continuing defending your cowardly methods

    hmmm...with your response and its obvious display of your difficulty with reading comprehension i change my opinion. i will state clearly that i do not support picking on mentally deficient peeps. andrew shame on you for so solidly thrashing this poor individual. do you also take candy from babies?

    ps. posting links to pics of family members..not cool dude, not cool

    pss. robert, IT dweeb is a redundant statement

    psss. andrew, with a wife that looks like that no way can you be classifed as a dweeb, i\'m going to have to ask you to step away from the motherboard - you give the rest of us comp geeks a false sense of possibility.

    haha, such silliness

    enjoy the sunshine all

    and what about the poor guy that got hit by a car, any news on his condition or what happened to the perp JONATHON ANY NEWS?

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  • KT August 5, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Yeah, how is the guy who got thrown 138 feet by a car doing?

    Any news?

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  • Matt August 5, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    I just saw him and he\'s doing surprisingly well, but still in a lot of pain (12 broken ribs, broken collarbone, broken shoulder). Apparently the car that hit him is totaled due to the impact with his body. Frankly, I\'m surprised he\'s alive and out of the hospital already.

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  • Irving August 5, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    The bicyclist is lucky, lucky, lucky to be alive.

    I can\'t help but wonder - If the driver in question had assaulted and killed someone dear to Andrew Ruess, would he be in jail facing charges of vehicular homicide, or free with a ticket for \"driving while suspended\" - and would this board have been hijacked by an army of SUV loving twerps - Mick, Peter, Jack?

    ARRRRGh. It just makes me want to choke Sean Hannity. Robert - thanks for calling these idiots just that.

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  • Mick August 5, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    WTF? What the hell makes you think that I am an \"SUV loving twerp\"? Dude, you couldn\'t be further from the truth.

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  • Andrew Ruess August 5, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Irving: The driver in this story should be locked up. Can you show me where I have suggested anything else?

    Sean Hannity should be locked up too... apparently the FCC doesn\'t have a litmus test for on-air personalities. And go ahead a get rid of Fox News too: I likely hate right-wing nut jobs more than you do. I\'m a card carrying liberal democrat.

    And yet I still believe there should be tougher penalties for drivers that break the rules, like Lance Waddy.

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  • Peter August 6, 2008 at 8:10 am

    I drive an SUV? That\'s what they call Accords these days? If Andrew was driving with a suspended license and hit a dude with his car, you bet, he should be tossed into jail. The fact that this didn\'t happen to this driver is stupid.

    But now that I know I annoy you so much, I think I\'ll stay. Post comments, and enjoy myself.

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  • Anonymous August 6, 2008 at 10:01 am

    steve, Robert didn\'t out this guy, I did. Robert just harassed him completely unnecessarily. You guys are the turds that have turned bikeportland blogs into worse nutcase blather than Oregonlive lunatics. The guy has a right to post an opinion, and I have the right to reference it. But you don\'t have the right to harass him, and a lawyer of all people should know that. So he drives an Armada, BFD? \"Card carrying liberal\" - what am I watching, Fox news here?

    Get back to the topic at hand - an injured bicyclist. Focus your energy into hoping he recovers well instead of continuing this hate spew.

    And don\'t believe everything you read.

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  • jack August 6, 2008 at 10:34 am

    so i started coming to this website about six weeks ago, a few before the aggro events in town, because a good friend and long time cyclist is trying to get me to start biking to work. 17 miles. completely across town. i was a bit unsure. seemed kinda dangerous with all the cars on the road. take me a bit longer to get there. my friend told me to come check this site out. that it would be informative and a constructive place to learn/research my potential life decision. the community was friendly and supportive of new bikers. a place to motivate a car commuter to become a bike commuter.

    instead ive found a community that is filled with hate, anger, and judgement. quick to label and villify any percieved dissent on bikers rights. a serious lack of constructive debate. structured and practiced support of an us v. them mentality. its the accepted norm in the comment threads.

    in this particular thread Robert connects/misidentifies what seems like a pretty ok guy (though has problem w bikeholes that cause distress at his and others place of business and made an ugly mark based on frustration with mentioned bikeholes) to myra (the focal point of hate for this site atm) while insulting and posting some pretty personal stuff. Pics of his wife, family, bikes (the irony), business info, etc. by my posting a disagreement with the appropriateness of this action i am now \'an suv loving twerp\' that has some sort of connection to fox news conservative talk show hosts. i\'m not a liberal democrat as is the accused \'bike hater\', im a commie. don\'t watch sean hannity, but my guess is that he isn\'t a commie and does not support the commie\'s political/economic point of view. my problem w Robert Dobbs posting of personal information has nothing to do with bikes or cars. my like or dislike for various forms of the motorvehicle have nothing to do with my response. it has much more to do with Roberts lack of character evidenced by his original immature act and lack of apology. his continued aggressive tone, words, and inability to commmunicate in a civil manner do nothing but further this impression of his lack of character.

    it makes me happy that the bike community is growing in population, that the city and state has an interest in increasing the safety and ability of bike communters to travel in urban and rural spaces. it is important for the continuation of that civic interest that the bike community (bike community = people that ride bikes at a minimum of a semi regular basis, not that you share tea and crumpets on sat mornings) does what it can to garner public support, represent itself in a positive manner. People like Robert Dobbs and those that support his actions effect these relations in a negative way. as the city/state policies/laws regarding bicycling needs matures, hopefully, the common attitude that i\'ve found on this site will mature as well.

    be safe, be friendly, perhaps ill see ya on my bike

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) August 6, 2008 at 10:49 am

    NOTE FROM EDITOR:

    I am growing increasingly impatient and frustrated with the tone and direction of comments on this thread.

    This is not a public forum and you do not have the right to wage personal attacks here.

    This is my business that I have worked hard to build and your off-topic, mean, and unnecessary comments are beginning to hurt my business.

    I have had a very long leash in my comments moderation style through the years and I hope I don\'t have to just start deleting comments... but at this rate I might have to.

    Please folks, let\'s keep the comments constructive.... if you have negativity to share, please do it in an intelligent way that adds to the discussion.

    Thanks.

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  • SkidMark August 6, 2008 at 11:58 am

    It\'s your site Jonathan. Ban trolling users, delete inappropriate posts, lock comments on threads, whatever it takes. I know you have this \"thing\" about free speech, but there are people coming in here not to voice opinions but to start sh1t. They are saying all the things that would get them beat down if it were face to face. I guess that is what the internet is really for.

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  • Peter August 6, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    I some what confused by what \"sh1t\" we\'ve caused by coming here, mostly since we came here provoked from your own community. At no point in time did any of us have anything to do with the story. Your community decided the best course of action was to post personal information and then began harassing Andrew over his phone, even though there is no link to him from the news story or this \"Myra\" person. Yes there is a quick \"twitter\" link, but then, by that logic, when this site linked to \"Bike Free Oregon\" it too is \"lying with the dogs.\" I\'m rather surprised that the administrator for a site dedicated to a civil discussion of the rights of cyclists (who I believe have a just concern for their safety) would even allow it to get to this point.

    At no point have myself, Mick or Andrew said anything about violence (see the beat down comment above) or called anyone names. If you as a web community have shown us anything, it\'s that the Oregonian has a legitimate point about cyclists in this city. You were more concerned with demonizing someone, that it took 86 (!) posts for anyone to ask how the victim of the accident was doing.

    I leave you with a quote from today\'s The Onion: \"What better way to take advantage of this incredible technology than to log onto the Internet and insult a complete stranger?\"

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  • Graham August 6, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    Andrew, you say in #64:

    \"Robert, would you be screaming at bikers if the bicyclist had been drunk, acting unsafe on the road, and caused two motorvehicles to hit each other to avoid the bicyclist?\"

    I take it that\'s the kind of behavior you\'re thinking of, when in post #68 you say:

    And yes, bicyclists can cause danger to other motorists: we have all seen it happen. Which is why all parties that inhabit the road need to be trained and certified.

    The idea being that bicyclists cause a danger by being unpredictable obstacles that cars might have to dodge? I can see what you mean, but you could say the same about jaywalking pedestrians, and I don\'t think you would expect to have license plates stuck on them.

    Now, if you\'re suggesting that bikes present some kind of active hazard to cars, the way cars present a hazard to other cars, well that\'s another story. And I don\'t think it\'s the case.

    The combined weight of a cyclist and bike is something like 1/100th the weight of a car, and the speed and acceleration a cyclist attains is similarly minuscule when compared to that of a car. A bike tacks on only 30 or 40 pounds onto the weight of its rider, and propels that person at a speed something like twice that of a human. Whereas a car is capable of propelling an average of 4000 pounds at speeds higher than that of any creature on earth. To suggest that a person on a bike plowing into a car is going to do any real damage to a person in a car would be silly.

    Now, a car plowing into a person on a bike can do a lot of damage to itself, just as it would running into a person, a deer, or any other relatively stationary object. This is all too gruesomely illustrated by the original post.

    So on the deadly-threat-posed scale of things, a bicycle with rider is far closer to the pedestrian end of the spectrum than the vehicle end.

    In #71 you say:

    I think the Portland metro area has about 2 million people now: if we went small and said only 500,000 cars are on the road every day... that is a lot of responsible drivers. I submit that licensing is part of the reason why.

    A lot of those supposedly responsible drivers drive in ways that put my life at risk every time I get on my bike. I mean literally. On the last two rides I\'ve taken in my quiet SE Portland bike boulevards, I\'ve come upon drivers rolling through stops signs (at two-way stops), driving with their phones to their heads, looking first left, THEN driving into the intersection, THEN looking right - finally spotting me, mere feet from their passenger doors.

    Their cars could kill me. My bike and I can\'t kill them. At worst, I might put a dent or a smear on their car. To suggest I should be licensed and tagged in the same way as them is... Well, I can\'t think of a constructive way of putting it (as per Jonathan\'s request.)

    Now the fact that they\'re unlikely to run away after mowing me down might have a lot to do with a license-imbued sense of responsibility. And certainly they would be a lot worse drivers if they\'d never had to take driving tests.

    The fact is though, motor vehicles are the potential killers on the road, and that\'s why they\'re licensed.

    Finally, I think you said:

    \"fight the power man. I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon =)\"

    http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8159/ruesslp2.jpg

    That was the original tweet that started this whole downward spiral.

    (I say I think you said it, because I haven\'t seen anywhere where you\'ve owned up to this statement, and because I know things can be faked on the internet.)

    Personally, I interpret the statement:

    \"I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon\"

    as meaning:

    1) I hate the bikers (no interpretation required!)

    and:

    2) I hope they all die, soon.

    The happy face at the end doesn\'t take the edge off the invocation of violence.

    I don\'t agree with the tactics and tone Robert has employed, but I can see how that comment would inspire such anger.

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  • grant August 6, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Taking the Tweet out of context is the problem here.

    Without the rest of the statements surrounding it you don\'t know where the writer is coming from.

    The inclusion of an emoticon (smiley face) at the end of the statement by Andrew should be enough for those with more than a rudimentary knowledge of the internet to perceive that a certain level of sarcasm was implied.

    But it seems that those who wish to use the statement to further their own view of Andrew conveniently remove said emoticon and thus remove a large part of the meaning in the statement.

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  • Graham August 6, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    grant:

    Taking the Tweet out of context is the problem here.

    Without the rest of the statements surrounding it you don\'t know where the writer is coming from.

    Fair enough. I don\'t know Twitter. If there\'s a context provided by Twitter that makes the statement, \"I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon =),\" seem harmless and non-threatening, that would be good to know.

    Was this part of a larger conversation? A brainstorming session perhaps, on what phrases might best tick off BikePortland readers? :)

    The inclusion of an emoticon (smiley face) at the end of the statement by Andrew should be enough for those with more than a rudimentary knowledge of the internet to perceive that a certain level of sarcasm was implied.

    To me that emoticon makes the statement seem as if it was made in good humor, like someone\'s saying it with a smile on his face. An expression of hate, and what sounds like a wish for violence, expressed with a smile on one\'s face still reads to me like hate, and a wish for violence - maybe a little creepier, even. (And maybe that\'s just because I saw the new Batman movie last night, with that creepy, creepy Joker.)

    But it seems that those who wish to use the statement to further their own view of Andrew conveniently remove said emoticon and thus remove a large part of the meaning in the statement.

    I\'m bothered that people are bothering him. Based on what he\'s said here, he\'s got a lot going for him, especially on the enviro front.

    I\'m also bothered by that tweet.

    Now, we\'re still just assuming he made that tweet, right? Because I can\'t find where he\'s claimed it as his own. Other than his name on the original, but again, that can be faked, or another Andrew. I\'m looking for an acknowledgment here, in this forum.

    In looking to see if the Andrew posting here has claimed the tweet as his own, I did find this in post 40:

    \"Apparently being a democrat (committee chairperson for district 4309) and owning a large vehicle makes me a closet-case that hates bicyclists. If you can show me a way to transport my wife and two great danes in a more cost effective manner I would love to hear it. Also make sure your solution is capable of towing a service trailer that weighs about 4k pounds. I\'d be happy to pick one up.

    I am also a computer dweeb that runs a computer dweeb business. I guess that means I hate bicyclists again. Especially the three employees that bike and/or walk to the office. And my requirement that my service fleet average more than 30mpg. And the fact I\'m evaluating the Miles electric vehicle for business use.\"

    This seems to suggest the notion that he might hate bicyclists is news to him.

    Then in post 63:

    Without better training, certification, and licensing on both sides of the bicycle debate people will continue to get hurt. And a bikepocalypse will likely happen.

    That seems to present a \"bikepocalypse\" as a natural offshoot of people not having licenses, and an expression of concern that such a think might happen.

    Here\'s that original tweet again:

    \"I hate the bikers. I hope the bikepocalypse comes soon =)\"

    \"I hope.\"

    Dictionary definition of \"apocalypse\": Great or total devastation; doom.

    Worse than people just getting hurt, presumably.

    Is he hoping for such a thing to happen, or concerned that it might?

    Is it two different people saying these things?

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  • KT August 6, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    SO HOW IS THE CYCLIST WHO GOT HIT DOING???

    (Sorry for shouting, but it seemed the only way to return to the topic)

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  • Ashley August 6, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    It appears from Matt comments that the cyclist is doing surprisingly well considering the extent of his injuries.

    I have a question about the citation and release aspect of this. Is it normal for a driver in this circumstance to be released with a citation? I would have thought there would be jail time involved. Does anyone know the specific policies surrounding this?

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  • Graham August 6, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    KT #99:

    Erm... Yes. Thanks for attempting to upright this derailed train of a post (that I was busy riding, Slim-Pickens style, as it tumbled into the ravine.)

    On the topic of the original topic, this, from post #86, absolutely astounds me:

    Apparently the car that hit him is totaled due to the impact with his body. Frankly, I\'m surprised he\'s alive and out of the hospital already.

    Wow. What is this guy, some kind of latent super hero?

    I\'m so glad to be able to say: my best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.

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  • SkidMark August 6, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Peter, 4 things:

    1)I have made no attacks on Andrew\'s integrity, just his preposterous proposal that bike riders should be licensed and bikes should have license plates. I think I have been quite respectful.

    2)By typing \"sh1t\" my comment does not need to be moderated, it goes up right away. How long you been doing this internet thing?

    3)By answering my comment you are admitting that you are indeed a troll.

    4)I am not making a threat, I am making an observation. Just like on the road most of us cyclists are fairly civil. We have to be as our life is basically on the line most of the time. On the other hand, you motorists can hide in your tin boxes, or behind your computer, and say things that you may not say to someone\'s face for fear of reprisal.

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  • steve August 6, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    What saddens me is this thread should have been about the complete disrespect cyclists are being shown, by the release of this near murderer.

    We should be writing the mayor, the police chief and the \'idiot\' cops who let this guy walk without a citation.

    Other than his car being totaled, what is preventing this guy from going out for another speeding fest?

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  • steve August 6, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Meant to say \'With only a citation\'.

    Seriously, why is this guy not in jail?

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  • Peter August 6, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Eh... I\'m done with you all.

    The concern here is with attacking people who have no connection with a news story then you are with the guy who got hit. Then when called on it a defense appears to justify the childish actions. There is a want to be treated fairly on the road, but don\'t want to be bothered with basic safety (wow why is it so evil to wear a helmet, I can\'t be the only person here who\'s worked at a ER, not as a doctor or nurse).

    I\'ve read a lack of general decency. I come here asking whats with the attack on someone not even remotely affiliated with anything here, but instead people get angry. Instead the community manager has to come out and say that enough is enough.

    Seriously? I hope Sam Adams makes this town more accessible to alternative modes of transportation.

    But no one here wants to talk about that. The victim in this accident is forgotten because of some hatred for other people on the road. Attention here is focused on \"us vs them\". Bad cars, \"tin boxes\", SUV lover, and plenty of \"***deleted by moderator -- personal insults are not tolerated***\". no ideas, just anger and hate.

    I hope that the hate will go away, but I doubt it. Look at how easy it was for the Oregonian to get people worked up. There is a real problem amongst drivers not respecting the rights of bikes on the road, but this site has shown me no reason why bikes deserve it.

    Have a nice life. Hope you all wear a helmet and I hope the man in this story makes a full recovery.

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  • Jonathan Maus (Editor) August 6, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    hi folks. I am planning a follow-up to this story on the main page.... sorry it has taken so long to do it.

    ALSO... i am still working on getting a more clear comment from the PPB, but from what I\'ve heard so far, my hunch is that they arrested this guy and wanted to keep him detained... but that the jails won\'t book someone for \"reckless driving\" even though it is considered a \"traffic crime\" (as opposed to a \"traffic violation\"). I think this has to do with overcrowding and cost issues but I\'m not sure. .. will have more answers on Thursday.

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  • kg August 7, 2008 at 9:48 am

    The licensing issue is a joke and insulting to the victim of this incident to be raised in this context. I have to laugh when I see comments like, \"The licensing idea is intriguing to me. I would sure love to be able to jot down a license plate number when I see a red light runner.\" Why? Do you need little pieces of paper to wallpaper your den? Do you really think you are going to call the police and they are going to hunt this person down and do something? They won\'t nor should they, not when there is some kid driving a 4000 pound vehicle way to fast and nearly killing people somewhere in town.

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  • Susan August 8, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Jonathan,

    I look forward to reading your follow-up story especially as it regards the driver. It\'s hard to understand how someone can injure someone else so much and the cops know that he has no insurance and a suspended license and they let him go! That seems like a lack of law enforcement but hopefully there is more to the story I just don\'t know yet.

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  • Myra August 9, 2008 at 9:59 am

    I feel sorry for the biker being struck from behind at 45 miles an hour that is something no one deserves. Stark is not very complex and could do with a bike lane.

    Many other streets in that area do have bike lanes like Burnside.

    I saw this accident just after it happened and the bike was a tangled mess. Very sad.

    My heart goes out to the injured man and the driver of the car. Both of them will have wounds from this accident for years but very different kinds.

    No matter who\'s at fault every time an Oregonian is hurt or killed we all suffer.

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  • Andy August 10, 2008 at 12:27 am

    I started skipping through the maelstrom of personal diatribes that this thread has become, so if this question has already been answered please forgive.

    Why was the guy driving the car released at the scene? Isn\'t driving without a license/insurance a jailable offense? Also, doesn\'t ten-fifteen miles over the speed limit in a semi-residential street, coupled with fact that he had no license/insurance, make it a jailable offense?

    What kind of message is being sent to the drivers/cyclists of Portland?

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  • Andy August 10, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Also, does that mean that the cops ticketed him and then let him drive home without a license or insurance? If so, REALLY?!!!?

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  • Duncan August 10, 2008 at 7:17 am

    Andy.
    I believe his car was totaled... but yes he was cited and released.

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